Not sure where your going with this, the black church is against homosexuality because the bible ( remember that little book they read and believe in) says its a sin and an abomination against God. Nothing personal, their religion just teaches that homosexuality is sinful. Their religon also teaches that adultery, fornication, cheating, lying, etc. are also sins, and they have members that commit all those sins as well. The big difference is that many of those sinful members who may or may not be on the choir, or on the usher board, want to stop the sin and may be struggling in doing so. The advocate of a homosexual lifestyle sees no need for the sinful behavior ( bibles words not mine) to stop. What advocates of homosexuality are basically telling the church is to disregard what their bible says and let them live the way they want to and still be a member of that church. In my humble opinion, if you want to live an openly gay lifestyle and go to church, find one that accepts your lifestyle instead of trying to force those who dont to accept it.

Actually, speaking as a black gay man, I definitely have to call out several of your points. In the churches I have attended, there are openly gay members. One church I know of had a transgender member. These are Baptist churches which supposedly preach against homosexuality. And might I remind you of the times in which prominent members of these churches who have preached against homosexuality were found in gay relationships themselves or have gotten into trouble because of gay relationships, i.e. Eddie Long.

The point I was making is that the Black church lives with a serious contradiction regarding lgbts of color and rather than bring it out in the open, a lot play “don’t ask, don’t tell.” This is wrong. It is hypocritical for a pastor or church members of verbally bash homosexuality while at the same time knowing of some members of the church who are gay and would be hurt by their words.

The Black church needs an open and honest dialogue, not only about homosexuality, but also about what interpretations of the Bible. Any African-American who will use the Bible to bash the gay community is woefully ignorant of his or her own history. It wasn’t that long ago that Biblical passages were used to justify slavery, segregation, and laws against interracial marriage.

What the Black church doesn’t need is a two-faced mindset about the gay community spurred by the folks who encourages ignorance rather than open dialogue.

Yeah, there is nothing personal about constantly advocating against people’s civil rights and launching political campaigns at the drop of a hat whenever anything comes up. FUCK YOU, you disgusting piece of shit. Slavery was also defended on biblic grounds. I’m sure for slaver masters it was nothing personal either. Also, there there is no such thing as a “gay lifestyle”, asshole.
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Morality is based on determining whether actions are harmful to anyone. Being gay doesn’t hurt anyone. Neither does having sex in of itself. Cheating is bad, because someone is hurt by it. That’s why the whole Christian concept of “sin” is utter bullshit. There is nothing moral about blinding adhering to a 2000 year old book written by ignorant sheep herders who knew nothing about the world. It’s just a way to control people, by declaring arbitrary and innocuous things “sins”. Things the church knows full well will happen again and again. Create the sickness and sell the cure; the biggest fraud in the history of mankind.

As for hypocrisy about gay matters, black churches are not much different from where most white churches were not too many years ago (I am old enough to remember those days). Many white evangelical and Roman Catholic churches still are stuck in those times. Most blacks, like most whites, accept gay friends/relatives on a personal level, even if nervously, but are not comfortable taking it to the level of publicly addressing how gay men should fit into society. Younger blacks, like younger whites, are more comfortable about this issue, but black churches are run by older men who, for the most part, don’t encourage dissent about long-held views of morality. Most of us know that a selective reading of the bible can be used to justify almost anything, including incest and murder. I think that a generational change in the virtually all-male leadership of black churches will eventually change things.

@ Stevie1

“Create the sickness and sell the cure…”

You knocked that one right out of the park. Great comment!

You act as though the minister does not do the same thing when he talks about the christian still watching porn, or living with their lover instead of being married, or doing recreational drugs, the word does not approve of these things either and according to your point of view the preacher is being a hyprocrit when he speaks out on these things. The ministers role is to speak what the bible says about these issues, not worry if his words are going to hurt people who are engaging in activities that the bible calls sin. When the preacher speaks on fornicating, he is talking to me, when he talks about not being honest or spending time with God, he is talking to me. If he/she is speaking on these issues from a bibilical perspective I have the choice of lining up my life in accordance to the bible or not. I certainly cant expect the bible to line up to me.
Again, if you want to live an openly gay lifestyle go to a church that does not discriminate against you.

Your response is a perfect example of the intolerance to any opinion outside of your own being allowed to be discussed. Never once did I say I agreed with the church’s point of view. I just gave you their perspective of it. If I were cussing and calling you names because you were gay I would be called homophobic, yet its perfectly ok for you to call people names and cuss them simply because they dont agree with you? I happen to be a christian who supports same sex marriage because in my opinion it is unconstitutional to block gay couples from marriage. However, I do think that the institution of the church has the right to insist that the bible and their intepretation of it be respected by its members. I believe if you are gay and you want to go to church go to one who supports a gay lifestyle. As far as your comparison of the Civil Rights is concerned, nothing could be further from the truth. The message then was to confront those opposed to you in love, calling people pieces of shit was not how they got it done. Again, this is not personal just a point of view that is different from yours. Hopefully, you will grow up before you comment on public posts again.

It’s not a personal matter of where I as an individual want to go. It is a matter of the two-faced nature of the Black church making the black community susceptible to anyone coming down the pike exploiting it against the gay community.

Perfect example would be the 2004 election when President Bush was doling out those faith-based initiatives to many black churches and black church leaders and how these same leaders vocally supported his cry against marriage equality.

They, and the black community, unfortunately found out the real depths of how the Bush Administration thought of the black community during Hurricane Katrina.

And speaking of the Bible, the main problem is people make too many assumptions as to what the Bible says because they are afraid to discuss different interpretations as to what is actually meant. You mentioned The Bible in your remarks, but you failed to mention God. The Bible itself is simply a book and should not be held in such high esteem that one forgets that it is supposed to be a conduit to God. It is simply impossible to follow the Bible word-for-word as a guide for your life. And this fact brings on new questions regarding homosexuality when one realizes that neither God nor Jesus actually said a word about homosexuality.

Remember robb, that one person’s response should not be used to generalize about an entire community. One more thing. The African-American community does not own the “Civil Rights Movement” any more than gays or any other people do.

I say that because I get annoyed when people call the African-American community’s struggle for equality in the 1950-60s the “Civil Rights Movement.” I always want to ask “well what do you call other movements for equality which came before the African-American civil rights movement?” Women’s right to vote was a “civil rights movement” as was the struggle in India against British rule which was led by Gandhi. The question of “is gay rights the same as civil rights” is a very lazy question. And it’s a stupid one.

Movements for “civil rights” have existed long before the African-American equality struggle and will exist long after the lgbt equality struggle. It does not belong to one race, gender, or sex. It is a universal struggle for equality and the right to self determination.

The Bible itself is simply a book and should not be held in such high esteem that one forgets that it is supposed to be a conduit to God. It is simply impossible to follow the Bible word-for-word as a guide for your life.

Brother Alvin, I think this comment tells us all we need to know.If you believe that the bible is just some words in a book then its possible to justify any kind of behavior you want. If however, you believe the bible is the inspired word of God you have to decide if you want to live by it or ignore it. If you choose to live by it, you have to accept that some of the things you want to do are out of bounds with God ,and changes have to be made. I would love to fornicate frequently without reservation, but doing so puts me in violation of God’s Word. And because I believe the bible is God’s word I try not to fornicate. They dont call it discipleship because its easy, its called discipleship because its hard. I dont do what I want to do because the Word of God says its wrong. And since I am not God ,and I believe in God, I try and do what the bible says do, and dont do what it says not to do.

This is what I mean by saying its not personal, for the most part people in church are not condemning you for being gay, they are condemning homosexuality not because they think its a sin, but because the bible says its a sin. And they condemn it just like any other sin. Which leads to your dilemma, you cant expect those of us who believe the bible to ignore a church member who lives an openly homosexual lifestyle. Instead of railing against the black church for believing the bible is the Word of God and opposing homosexuality, why not find a church that supports your gay lifestyle? Besides, if the bible is just a book why go to church at all? I sure wouldn’t.

As I stated before, the dilemma is the dual nature of the black church in regards to homosexuality allowing it to be exploited by forces and folks who don’t have the black community’s best interest at heart. You keep making this into a personal thing like I am in turmoil over how the black church views ME as a gay man. Such is not the case. But the two-faced nature in which black church deals with lgbts of color is a problem with ugly repercussions for both parties.

It is funny that you should mention fornication and the like because that again underlines the hypocritical nature. For all of your talk about fornication, the black church does not condemn it with as much zeal as some black churches attack homosexuality. There is more at play here, i.e. the thought that being an lgbt interferes with some people’s highly idealized idea of the black male and female.

That’s the crux of the argument here, something I notice you are attempting to avoid.

Not trying to avoid anything bro, just dont agree with you. You want the church to accept and approve of your lifestyle even if it means ignoring what the bible says about that lifestyle. In other words take the Alvins of the worlds point of view over the written word of God. For those of us who dont believe the bible your point of view is feasible, but for those of us who do, your point of view is something we have to reject.

Has nothing to do with wanting ANYONE to accept my so-called lifestyle. It does have a lot to do with the Black church and the Black community playing the “don’t ask, don’t tell” game at its own detriment. And btw, what exactly is the “gay lifestyle” you keep talking about. You seem to talk about our lives as if we are dog dirt you are attempting to avoid. THAT is a serious problem in the black community. It fosters ignorance about people’s lives based on the Bible, just as the Bible was used to justify slavery, segregation, laws against interracial relationships as well as the second-class status of women. And many who committed those offenses justified their bad behavior by clinging to the Bible. History in this case is repeating itself because folks are remaining steadfastly ignorant when the truth of bad consistency stares them in the face.

You want the church to accept and approve of your lifestyle even if it means ignoring what the bible says about that lifestyle.

You act as if what the Bible says about being gay is a settled matter. It isn’t. There is quite a lot of discussion within every Christian denomination about what, if anything, the Bible says about being gay.

“Perfect example would be the 2004 election when President Bush was doling out those faith-based initiatives to many black churches and black church leaders and how these same leaders vocally supported his cry against marriage equality.

They, and the black community, unfortunately found out the real depths of how the Bush Administration thought of the black community during Hurricane Katrina.”

That’s a good point, I never looked at it like that, Alvin.

Uh, then you need to kick all of the gays and lesbians out of your choirs, since they are living “that lifestyle.”