How long will it be before Fox News and the usual cast of idiots begin hyping this madness up?

The memo is already circulating, I’m sure.

I’ll bet they have snappy uniforms with brown shirts and hobnail boots, too.

How long?

Apparently longer than it took for Stepford Dems to hype Obama’s re-election as a “progressive” victory…

Now wait a minute, Alvin…

With all due respect; Obama came in with that 79 seat majority in the House and that 18 seat majority in the Senate.
And one hell of a mandate.

How did the republicans (“moderates” or wing nuts…) undermine him?

I think you’re kind of re-writing history with that.

How sad.

Wow! Powerful stuff. I felt my arm straightening out and rising, just like that! And the Battle of Kursk was a victory. The retreat is just a trap set for our enemies.

Aaaaaand bigchin can’t help himself but hangs in there, endlessly parroting his line in a desperate effort to remain relevant post election…

Any bets on how long it takes before these yahoos notice that vote-bullying is soooooo last week?

There was/is no mandate that’s true. But Obama’s win IS a decisive defeat and repudiation of the obstructionist mentality that this clown from “HeritageAction” or whatever it is blathering about.

Which is not to say that the right will ever learn anything because, . . . how does that definition of insanity go again?

Obama only had a mandate for three months after Al Franken was elected. You have failed to factor in the Blue Dogs.

I guess as long as it takes them to realize how silly and puerile it seems to those of us who don’t endlessly sulk like children who don’t get their way.

so the new policy is to double, triple – oh hell, I don’t know, just maybe stoopid squared…

I remember 2008 and all the hopes that progressives had. I also remember the exodus some made after they’d realized they’d been betrayed. I suspect that in 2012 the third party movement will pick up another percent or two when the Democrats decide to follow Barack Obama off the “fiscal cliff” and raise the retirement age to “save” Social Security.

Here’s to hoping I’m wrong.

No rewriting history. Robert Draper in his book Do Not Ask What Good We Do told of several Republicans, including Paul Ryan who got together on the night of Obama’s inauguration and plotted to undermine him. Also, Boehner gave specific instructions that they would not be working with Obama at all. And McConnell openly bragged about making him a one-term president. Boehner and McConnell were not at the meeting but their actions occurred at other times.

Obama and Reid had to kiss Lieberman’s and Nelson’s asses then to get ANYTHING at all done. That’s not a factor this time so we’ll see.

Reid is sounding very serious about eliminating the filibuster or seriously curtailing it. If that happens, all the pressure will be on the House Republicans and if they don’t play ball, the House will flip in two years.

The departure of Lieberman’s ass is reason for joy. Now if he would just leave the country my dreams would be fulfilled.

Just watched the video! If that’s the opposition, then I’m not overly concerned. LMAO! It reminded me of one of those new product videos.

Why worry about this crap? It’s the same old same old bullshit that tanked the GOP in the election.

Agreed. I wonder if he could be persuaded to re-locate to Israel?

Yep. Spot on. Their whole schtick is that they “weren’t conservative enough”. Just mindless repetition of something that’s been discredited over and over.

that’s what I’m really hoping for…control of the House in two years. Then…maybe…stuff will get done.

Again, without Ben Nelson, Kent Conrad and Joe Lieberman, that wing of the Senate caucus is looking mighty slim.

If their movement is stronger, then why did they lose yesterday?

I think you are getting excited over nothing. It’s just the usual partisan politicking going on.

All the demographics are against the Republicans unless they change their ways.

After yesterday’s election, the new focal point of the Democratic party is Senator Elizabeth Warren. How she acts, the positions and strategies she pursues, will have enormous influence.

I’ll refer you to this handy chart.

Manchin and Casey are still incredibly conservative Democrats. Those are 2 of the 4 that opposed tax increases on the rich. As a matter of fact none of the coalition of 4(Hagan and Landreiu) was even up for re election.

Then there’s Warner and Durbin remaining in the “grand bargain” brigade. They’ll have to replace Conrad but I’m sure one of those 4 will fit the bill just fine.

I CLEARLY said that wing of the caucus was less, I never argued that they were gone.

You are as wrong as two left feet on this, Margaret.

ALL that Obama had to do was tell Reid and Pelosi that he was going to run real reform legislation up to the hill and if the republicans filibustered it, he would keep forcing votes, as he got into the pulpit and reminded americans that he was trying to do what he said he would.

The republicans would have folded in a matter of days. Do you seriously think that DEMOCRATS, of any stripe, would have opposed him?

I’m glad he won, for all the obvious reasons, but I guess some of you are so euphoric that Romney didn’t win, that you’re getting carried away and talking stuff that is blatant nonsense. You do yourselves a disservice and the progressive cause, when you do it.

I’m not going to re-visit all of the sellouts; I’m tired of that, but claiming that the republicans, in or out of government, “undermined” Obama is just blather. When he came in, they had been consigned to the political shithouse. He and the democrats had their foot on their necks. All he had to do was grind a little bit and that would have been that. Instead, he spent copious amounts of political clout in doing nothing but resuscitating them to the status of “loyal opposition”.

I ask you again, Alvin. With those margins, and the fact that he doubled John McCain’s electoral vote, how did they “undermine” him?

I don’t know what you’re trying to do by claiming that. As for Leiberman, you people seem to be forgetting that Lieberman actively campaigned for McCain, and Obama STILL gave him his old committee assignment back. Of course Lieberman rewarded him by hosing him every chance he got.

I was all set to let bygones be bygones and celebrate the fact that the VOTERS are leading Obama (he sure as hell didn’t campaign for pot legalization, and he only “evolved” into supporting Gay marriage rights 24 hours after the issue got drilled in North Carolina, and a lot of Gay and progressive democrats were asking “What the Fuck?” I don’t recall him voluntarily raising the issue in his campaigning.)

You guys can’t rewrite the past four years, no matter how happy you are about his re-election. Trying to do it is shameful.

I would look for Alan Grayson to match that in the House, at least in speaking out against the policies of the assholes, at which he has no peers.

I’ve never argued that Obama was perfect or even good. In fact, I’ve pointed out quite often and consistently that he is a crappy Democrat and a crappy person. All that comment was about was the fact that some of the Senators he was using as an excuse are gone. That he and Reid had to kiss their asses is axiomatic, I wasn’t attempting to evaluate how willingly it was done. Had I weighed in on that, I would have said something like, “Of course Obama has always taken far too conciliatory a tone with the Blue Dogs for my taste”.
Suggesting that I’m trying to “rewrite” history is both shameful and incorrect. Why do you have to treat people like they are stupid or delusional by default? That’s not persuasive, it’s just being a dick. You are not superior to me in any way though you have always fancied yourself to be.

My point was the Democrats have just replaced them with “different” conservative Democrats who will be equally effective at creating the narrative of bi partisanship.

I don’t think that the republicans NEED a plan to undermine Obama. My point is that soon after he was elected, he voluntarily checked into the GOP’s political spay-and-neuter clinic.

John Boehner still controls the House. Would anyone like to discuss Barack Obama’s relationship with him over the past four years?

The results of this election can be summed up in one word: “gridlock”.

IF Obama discovers his inner progressive self, how is he going to get real populist legislation passed?

Everyone who’s honest will admit that the jewel in the crown of his first four years, the healthcare “reform” was practically written by the HMO’s and Big Pharma. It was a monumental sellout. That’s why he wouldn’t support stripping the HMO’s of their exemption from the anti-trust laws, and it’s why he told Reid to kill the Dorgan amendment that would have allowed the re-importing of generic drugs to force Lilly and Pfizer, etc., to cut their prices.

Anyone pimping the nonsense about the big, bad, republicans stealing poor, courageous, Obama’s political mojo is selling snakeoil that’s as repulsive as anything that the republicans peddle.

I’m not a big Andrew Sullivan fan but I think he has it exactly right when he calls Obama a moderate Republican. Sure, he has a D after his name but he has been far more comfortable with people like Snowe or Lieberman then he ever has been with folks like Grayson.

Excuse me: Why did Obama have to kiss Lieberman’s ass? Did he think that Lieberman was going to side with him on important progressive legislation after Lieberman endorsed John McCain and campaigned with him?

Did he think that Lieberman was going to give him an edge for cloture on any filibuster the GOP might mount?

Hell, he had the 18 seat majority without Lieberman. Why reward him with his old committee seat?

He owed Joe Lieberman jackshit.

There is no doubt of it. When he went to that $30,000-a-plate fatcat dem fundraiser and taunted the progressives (who derailed Hillary’s train and put him on track for the White House) Jane, much to her credit, expressed the disgust and anger that I felt he deserved, to a “T”. It was an outrage for him to do that.

And on the other side, certain people are planning Obama’s third term…..

Money to support this crap is coming from where? It’s awful but the republicans brought in the patriot act…why not use it for the good of the country.

Joe Lieberman was an important turning point for me. When the Democratic establishment supported him over the progressives choice it became fairly apparent that the Democratic Party saw progressives as useful idiots.

I find it ironic though that the very people who malign third party voters stood quietly by and allowed the Democrats to kneecap the Democrat in Maine because it was politically expedient for the party.

I wonder if Dkos will pimp Angus King as a “Democrat” the same way they pimp Sanders as one, all the while decrying the irrelevance of discussing third parties.

I realized that this Heritage guy is really trying to sound like Churchill:

” We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, . . . ”

It’s really, really hard to take anyone who tries to evoke a speech like that over losing an election. Talk about losing one’s grip on reality!

I agree completely. yes

With all due respect, an ass kisser is an ass kisser is an ass kisser.
There is no Change We Can Believe In. Time to get over it and move on.
Occupy Sandy leads us into the new Community. Imagine, National Guard trucks dropping off bottled water and supplies to an Occupy camp to distribute on Staten Island. It boggles the brain.

Yep.

*G*

He was the NEW dim president.

He had power to whip troops into line, and he chose NOT to do so.

He tacked GOP/Corporate Fascist right the day he announced his cabinet picks, and it’s been one giveaway after another since.

And all the word from the usual Krugman’s and GlenZilla’s is Obama will reform SS and Medicare during the lame duck.

N then, we’ll all have to watch him inaugurated in Jan.

LeSigh, same as it ever was, same as it ever was. Only worse.

Secret Hint: The right wing is no longer the enemy, hasn’t been since Obama announced his cabinet picks for his first term.

Reforming SS and other social services programs is fully on the table this Lame Duck Session.

Dawg help us all.

Yeah, as long as she don’t take no plane rides on AF-1 with Obama, everything is BOUND to be fine . . . uh huh.

That’sa my boy.

*thumbsuphoss*

Liz and Alan will revert to being muzzled once the session begins in the New Year.

It happens to all of them.

Don’t count on either for much more than lip service to an empty chamber or votes they cast which are meaningless to the outcome.

On these things, they will shine brightly. On the REAL shit, they will muzzle themselves full . . . Can you say Public Option, Bernie Sanders? Dennis Kuch? Those AF-1 rides with Obama must be traumatic.

Yes here, also.

I have a feeling Angus King is gonna be another Lieberman.

I think Warren has already made her leanings clear and she’s not a progressive.

“It was a monumental sellout.”

Lest we forget, ACA was “fixed” almost immediately by an add on bill passed through the reconciliation process, simple majority only. Almost all of the “we just don’t have the votes” provisions of ACA could have been included in the reconciliation bill.

Anyone remember how Kucinich got taken to the woodshed aboard AF1 when Obama thought he needed his vote for final passage of ACA? That kind of pressure was never applied to any of the revolving cast of demon of the day blue dog senators.

If someone wanted to do a parody of a possible Heritage response to the election, they couldn’t have done a better job than this video.

Heck no, in the House a coalition of over 40 progressives was told to pipe down and let the nice coalition of 12 conservadems put on a show for us featuring the villification of a valid medical procedure. And let’s not even get into arresting the people on the left side of the aisle in favor of a single payer solution which was taken “off the table.”

In the Senate the majority leader was told to pipe down and let Olympia Snowe from the minority party take point on health care.

Oh it was a grand circus that ultimately ended with the progressive “win” being a plan that largely mirrored the Republican plan that was offered back when the conversation first turned to universal coverage. Whoopie!

“. . . but claiming that the republicans, in or out of government, “undermined” Obama is just blather.”

For those who not only bought the “Hope and Change” con of 2008, but also voted again for Obama in spite of all that has happened in the intervening four years, this blather must be maintained as an article of faith. Otherwise, one will have to come to terms with the possibility that they got fooled, that they voted for a right wing candidate, and that their choice in President does not fight for their interests, is incompetent, or similar. There are probably very few things that are more difficult for a person to honestly look at than getting fooled. We all like to think that we are too smart to get conned.

“This time will be different,” is the new hopeful refrain. If it isn’t, for many another scapegoat will be invented.

Maybe Obama was not kissing Lieberman’s ass. Maybe Obama was simply behind Lieberman to hide because so doing better served Obama’s desire for re-election in 2012.

Obama worked hard, as did Clinton, Schumer, et al. to tear down Lamont in the primary and then did not support Lamont in the general. Maybe there was a good reason why Obama thought having Lieberman, the Senate mentor Obama chose for himself, back in the Senate would be preferable to having Lamont in the Senate?

Lamont was far from a liberal, but would not have campaigned against Obama in 2008, either. Obama probably could have counted on his support. So, why did Obama do his best to try to make sure Lieberman was in the Senate in 2009, not Lamont?

Agree in part and disagree in part.

The Right Wing is, and always will be the enemy, be it the right wing known as Republicans or the Right Wing of the Democratic Party, or the right wing in France or Holland.

The Right Wing of the Democratic Party started taking over the Party before McGovern ran. It was close to completing the takeover when Mondale lost. And the takeover was pretty much complete when the Democratic Leadership Council became a formal group and the first official DLC candidate, Bill Clinton, won in 1992.

The Republicans proposed the Patriot Act. Many Democrats voted for it, much as they voted for the Iraq War and the infamous War on Terror.

We are never going to help ourselves as long as we keep buying into the notion that Republicans, and only Republicans, are responsible for all our ills.

The Democrats talk a better game than do Republicans because they have to. Fact is the Democrats (still, so far) have a base that expects different things from their politicians than does the Republican base. But forget the words and watch the actions.

I hope you are correct I wish you are correct. However, I don’t see how it’s possible.

Like Obama, Warren owes her political career to all the third way Democrats who recruited her to run and who helped her win. And Warren owes her victory to Obama, who did not throw Warren to the wolves, as he did with Coakley.

Even assuming that Warren wants to buck the tide, what can one Senator do? Even my favorite, Bernie Sanders, cannot do a whole lot besides vote against Republicans and with the Third Way Democrats.

Hey, that’s a step forward.

When NOLA needed water after Katrina, the water trucks were routed to Massachusetts, where they parked on the street and drivers slept awaiting further orders–on taxpayer overtime. The orders did not come, though, until the news media got hold of the story.

So, getting the water to the same quadrant of the nation as the disaster victims is a big step forward.

Listen, as Americans, we need to learn to be grateful for small favors. Very, very, small.

I agree. In fairness, though, what can one House member or one Senator do?

the Democratic Party is overwhelmingly–and aggressively– center right (meaning, essentially Republicans, but with slightly better social positions) and so is Congress. What can one lone legislator do?

Hillary was never on track for the White House.

Reid, Daschle and other party leaders had anointed Obama before the primaries ever began. They thought that Hillary had “too much baggage.”

OMG! Right wing nuts are not supporting Obama! How dare they, after Democrats supported the hell out of Bush!

Only Obama can undermine his second term and I have full confidence that Obama will do as good a job of undermining his second term as he did of undermining his first term, if not more so.

She did, actually. I voted for her in the primary, but the baggage issue wasn’t an arguable point. I voted for her because I thought her the best of a dismayingly bad lot, but I never trusted her. Still don’t and wouldn’t vote for her again, tho I doubt she’ll even feint at running. Hillary might set up well as a power in the shadows, heaven help us.

I do so hope he steps on it, as my army friend says. It would be incalculably beneficial to so many ordinary people if Obama stumbled badly. Miscalculated, misjudged, and missed his targets.

It isn’t even just about Obama. This is about the Democratic Party and its leadership. They purposely undermined their base following that primary. Until those who want to reform the party from the inside acknowledge this I don’t see how they can in any way ,shape or form reform the party. Reforming the party from the inside will mean fighting a well funded quite happy with the infrastructure Democratic leadership. A leadership that believes its base should just shut up, open up their wallets and support them without question because they know better than you even as they prove time and time again they don’t.

Isn’t it so nice that the Democratic leadership is so willing to make the difficult decisions for us?/s

I think when Rahm called us a bunch of “f’in retards” for one moment the mask slipped and you got to see EXACTLY how the Democratic party sees us. They don’t fear us at all and quite frankly THAT is a problem.

I don’t think they even extend themselves that far: http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/001705.html

I have absolutely no delusions in terms of the political parties. My basis for supporting a third party is to get rid of the bad-worse paradigm. That being said, I think anyone who supports a third party solution needs to recognize that the powers that be will attempt to co opt or buy into that option if it were to actually be a viable option.

When we go around telling other countries that “democracy is hard work,” it’s important to be mindful that this applies to OUR democracy as well.

My point was that they don’t think “they know better than,” they don’t extend themselves even that far: they want to keep the power they have, period. That’s it, all of it, and only it. Really, thinking has nothing to do with it(,dearie). Apologies to Mae.

Should be no problem. Even though his words as member of Congress pledged allegiance to the U.S., his performance revealed clearly his allegiance to Israel. He’s a disgrace no matter which way you turn him…even Israel should refuse to take him if integrity matters to them at all…but that’s another issue.

Yeah, this makes child’s play of the trials of Hercules. Warren is not exactly the new kid on the block in spite of it’s being her status. Has there ever been a more universally hated-by-the-opposition person right out of the starting gate? Just hope she can maintain focus on her target. The story of David and Goliath also applies just to throw in another metaphor.

I have to disagree if we’re just trading hunches. Lieberman was as bad as you can get, a tough record to match. And though they both are Yankees, there is a world of difference between a brain cultivated in Conn. and one cultivated in Maine.

I’d have to let you have this one. I supported Warren mostly because I could not stomach the lies and bullshit out of Scott “Pretty-boy” Brown. I do have high hopes for Warren’s focus on the banksters, but “Progressive”?? Her un-educated foreign policy vision is a real bother. Be nice to see that change once she does get an education. But Washington is not an easy place to get smarter.

How so?

Whoa, yeah! And the pressures that can be brought to bear, committee assignments, money for home state projects, election help, law making log rolling…….. It’s endless and unremitting.

I just shake my head when I see them using images of Reagan. Reagan would NOT approve of these morons. In fact if these morons were honest they’d admit Reagan was way too liberal for them. And yet they use his image. These guys have more in common with fascists than Reagan.

Surely we weren’t expecting them to reach out the hand of friendship and cooperation, after being called racists nonstop for four straight years?

http://youtu.be/iHvAlk6li5w

Trick question! A movement must be more than one person, even if that person is Pres. Barrack Obama.

Indeed. A lot of folks who have gone in for the hard right Rep party nonsense have done so because the “left” not only has nothing for them, but also has decided they are “fucking retarded.” In my state, folks who might have been populists in another generation are Tea Baggers today.

If I remember correctly, historical populism had a nasty nativist bent and some very uncivil planks in its platform. I’m not sure it couldn’t have found common ground with the baggies. And historical progressives were bigoted, imperious, and dictatorial. There are some interesting life forms under the rocks.

You’re right. Quite true. I guess I was thinking of potential common ground between citizens and, like perryllogan, what happens when we demonize our neighbors, as those interested in control like to see. I’m guilty of it myself. When I find myself demonizing a fundie conservative, I try to remind myself that I have more in common with the Tea Bagger next door than I do with The Owners who benefit from our division.

Does the Tea Bagger next door know that?

I guess that you obama supporters will have to put me in the category of thinking that he will be even less friendly to progressives this time around, if that is possible. There is no election staring him in the face so he can act with impunity (I can’t see him being impeached) so his antipathy toward progressives will have no check at all. Just look at his cabinet and advisors the first time around; nobody progressive has been mentioned to replace any of those “conservatives.”

I see by this thread that there is a major split continuing here at FDL. There are those happy that o won and expect good to come of it, but feeling that all the good he wants to do will be derailed by the repugs as in the first term. Then there is rest of us who see a worsening of problems here and abroad with a lack of real leadership even minimally progressive, with o undermining himself.

Somehow we will have to start to heal that split or it will fester and affect FDL in a very bad way. I hope that we can continue to exchange ideas without becoming so self-righteous that intelligent, articulate discussions and disagreements degrade into continual ad hominem attacks. I shall continue to point out what I feel are o’s failures so that any and all can agree or show me where I am totally wrong.

You are correct on that point. Look at the populism of William Jennings Bryant. He was progressive on many points, but not so on others.

No! because of the abuse of the fillibuster rule, which requires 60 votes, Obama NEVER had a working majority in the senate.

Reid could have amended the rules to eliminate the filibuster. Why do you imagine he did not do so?

To the same degree that the liberal or the progressive or the Democrat next door does.

Oh, it was just an expression. I thought you had a next door neighbor who is a Tea Bagger.

o never tried to use the power of the “bully pulpit” to bring everyone to get on the train. He basically gave up without fighting for what we thought were his principles. It turns out that he had none to fight for, it was a sham to cover for the 1%.

Oh, my bad.

Actually, I hang out with quite a few folks who, if not Tea Baggers, are in that ballpark. I think the majority of them do recognize the commonalities we have. However, I think the degree to which this is the case is dependent on how authoritarian they are and wether they have ever gotten out into the wide, wide world or have never left their block. The libertarian-leaning folks are more likely to see the commonalities over deference to “leaders” who say different. Indeed, I hear them frequently espouse socialist ideas. Most of the time I have the good sense not to point that out to them—we’ll just call it “being neighborly” or “common sense.”