Wake the F up, people. Do you really want Romney as President?! Obama won North Carolina by a sliver in 2008 (with a kick-@ss ground game and record turnout). And now Mittens for the first time holds a lead here.
“The presidential race in NC continues to be very close,” Public Policy Polling Director Tom Jensen says. “This month we find Mitt Romney leading Obama 48-46. It’s a small lead but it’s still significant because it’s the first we’ve found Romney leading Barrack Obama in our monthly polling since October.
Romney’s gained seven points on Obama over the past two months alone. Jensen says Romney’s small lead is probably heavily influenced by independent voters. “Romney’s up to 20 percent of the democratic vote after being at 15 percent a few months ago,” he says. “For a republican to win in North Carolina really requires winning over a lot of conservative democrats and that 20 percent of the democratic vote suggests Romney’s doing a little bit better on that front.”
Americans have such a short attention span; yeah, this President didn’t give us all of the hopey-changey goodness he promised on the campaign trail, and I’ve been highly critical of his foot-dragging leadership on several fronts (yes, people, read my back catalog), but really — do people want Romney and his adviser Robert Bork packing the U.S. Supreme Court?
Considering the economic mess/slow recovery, the President has finally decided to cry uncle and declare the obvious — he needs more time, and the Romney alternative would be worse.
In an economic speech on Thursday that could set the tone for months of campaigning, Obama is not likely to unveil new ideas to boost the economy and create new jobs, according to Democrats familiar with the preparations for the address.
Instead, he will make the case that he needs four more years to undo the damage left by George W. Bush, his Republican predecessor in the White House, and argue that a President Romney would bring back the weak financial regulation and budget-busting tax cuts of the Bush years.
Obama already is making this argument to small groups of supporters.
“The last thing we want to do is return to the very policies that got us into this mess,” he said at a fundraiser in Baltimore on Tuesday.
I had flashbacks of horror when they held that portrait unveiling of G.W. Bush and Laura at the White House a couple of weeks ago. All I could think of was how we finally got that man out of office in 2008, and all of the economic damage left in his wake as he took off in the Marine One helicopter to return to a life of ease in Crawford. I told Kate back in 2008 that anyone elected Prez (Dem or Rep) was going to be so f’d by the Bush economy that they’d be a one-termer. Americans were going to blame whoever was in office for not fixing the mess soon enough. Look at these numbers on MSNBC’s voter confidence index. Looks like it would be nearly impossible to top that Bush ’08 number.
The 2010 teabagger midterms were so pitiful; many state legislatures turned over to the GOP and that’s wreaked havoc in those states. North Carolina’s General Assembly is now run by Republicans for the first time since Reconstruction. And yet the PPP numbers tell the story – that short attention span, quick-fix-it mentality runs deep.
“I don’t think the president, for all of his narrative gifts, which are enormous, has done a very good job up to now of integrating the economic difficulties of recent years into a broader story about the future of the American economy,” said William Galston, a former adviser to Clinton.
Democrats believe that Obama already has laid out plenty of ideas for improving the economy that have been blocked by Republicans in Congress, such as spending to improve the nation’s transportation network and helping local governments avoid further layoffs of teachers and firefighters.
Obama will face a near-certain loss in the November 6 election if he does not shift the campaign’s storyline away from his economic track record, three Democratic strategists wrote in a memo released on Tuesday.
Had the President not squandered his first two years “compromising” with the GOP (that’s laughable), we’d probably be in better shape since the Republicans from day one have set out to ensure failure of this administration. Now he’s losing donors on the left and right (no wonder he’s courting the LGBT base).
The 2008 donors who haven’t returned to President Obama are disproportionately centrists and very liberal Democrats, while regular Democrats have stuck by the president, according to a new analysis of campaign finance data.
The analysis, by Stanford political scientist Adam Bonica, matches and deepens a BuzzFeed finding that roughly 90% of those who gave more than $200 to Obama haven’t returned, a mark of the disillusionment among some of his early supporters and of his ongoing struggle — despite the advantages of organization and incumbency — to keep even with his 2008 fundraising totals.
“The 2008 donors who were most likely to give again in 2012 are those with ideological scores most similar to Obama’s, whereas moderate-to-conservative donors and those on far left are significantly less likely to re-up,” Bonica said.
…Only 11% of these drop off donors have given to another political group or candidate this cycle. This low percentage suggests that Obama’s drop off donors from 2008 aren’t so much switching allegiances as they are removing themselves from the political process.
It’s not only donors dropping out of the process. I believe that this White House has miscalculated the apathy in the mighty middle as well. We saw it here in North Carolina and Amendment One. The energized bases on the left and right showed up at the polls in a record primary, but the votes the anti-Amendment One side was counting on to defeat the discriminatory measure just didn’t feel compelled to vote. Barack Obama and his campaign need to worry about these disillusioned low-info voters who’d rather flip on the latest reality show than go to to the polls. The economy has a huge swath of people demoralized and checking out of the system.




In an economic speech on Thursday that could set the tone for months of campaigning, Obama is not likely to unveil new ideas to boost the economy and create new jobs, according to Democrats familiar with the preparations for the address.
137 Comments


I think there’s a bit more to the lack of donors that the raw numbers might imply.
The sense I get when talking with people or reading blogs is that many people on the left or right/centrist realm of the liberal spectrum are giving up on the process in general – they’re starting to feel that “the fix is in” and that what really matters in politics is big money. They don’t see how their donation can make a difference in a process that looks “rigged” or, at the very least, is being dictated by large cash donors.
Secondly, the types of smaller donors that the data looks at are the type who would be most impacted by the economic mess. Things are getting worse – unemployment isn’t improving and prices for basics are rising. Many of these donors probably have different priorities, like paying bills, more so than they did the last time around.
As far as NC, I think that the influence of Art Pope’s money on the debate here in NC can’t be discounted in turning swing voters to the right. In rural areas of NC, the economy’s been much worse than urban areas, so it’s no surprise that voters would have less confidence in Obama. And, since 2008, I’m willing to bet there’s been something of a demographic shift with many young, well educated and more liberal voters heading out of state trying to find work – conservative, less educated voters would be likely to stay put or come “back home” to NC to live with family in tougher economic times.
Face it – if you live in the Triangle area, you’re pretty much in a bubble and I don’t think you appreciate how much NC teeters on the edge of ultra-conservative politics and extremist racism and homophobia. It only takes some small demographic shifts, right wing advertising and propaganda, and economic worries to tip things in the other direction.
I’ll be so glad when I can move out of here.
The Obama administration had an FDR moment, but gave us more Hooverism. He’s been paying for it ever since. This isn’t rocket science.
He will now lose North Carolina. This should never have been in doubt to any thinking person considering his extremely narrow win in NC in 2008.
And to drag NC’s Amendment One campaign’s abysmal failure into presidential political analysis… that’s just plain nonsense.
The post-mortems written by Amendment One staffers and surrogates state that their voter goal for the 2012 NC primary was roughly 500,000. NC primary voters in 2008 were over 2,100,000.
What kind of strategist or campaign team sets a target of 25% of the last election and expects to win? You need 50%! And that’s just one example of that campaign’s failure. To put it kindly, these people were operating outside of logic and should never have been running a statewide campaign.
A real campaign — like Obama has at his disposal — will not make such basic mistakes. They may still make messaging and policy mistakes that could cost him the electoral college, but NC is a lost cause for Obama.
Folks in NC need to focus on working for and electing Walter Dalton as Governor and Sam Ervin as a Justice to the NC Supreme Court.
All three branches of NC state government are up for grabs this year. The GOP General Assembly has redrawn the legislative districts to virtually ensure their hold on power. Checking the NC GOP’s power with the other two branches should be a priority.
Democrats across the state need to focus on the Executive (Dalton) and Judicial (Ervin) branch races to the exclusion of almost all other distractions — especially federal distractions where polling is trending the wrong way.
I disagree. We have no idea yet, what the determining factors for the presidential election in N.C. will be. There are too many unforeseeable contingencies. As an example, McCain’s selection of Palin as running mate radically altered the landscape of that election — not in McCain’s favor at all. Not to put too fine a point on it, Palin’s innate idiocy scared away a lot of independent voters who might otherwise have voted for McCain. N.C. is not mainly a highly affluent state. And Romney keeps on saying such things as that Anne drives two Cadillacs, and that he’s going to lower his own taxes while raising taxes on the middle class.
I’m well aware of the Pope machine and its influence on the scared rural voters (as well as the bubble I sit in here in the Triangle). I’m more concerned about the people in the middle who have just checked out of the process, are under-informed, hurting from the economy, and will just sit the election out. We all know the bible beaters will get bused to the polls and pull the lever for Romney. Many of the rural voters are still mad that a black man is POTUS.
I think maybe you need to wake up they are all puppets and choosing from puppet a or puppet b is just a question of how slow or how fast they will burn us frogs
How many of Obama’s small donors of 2008 are currently unemployed? How many have been forced into bankruptcy? Have lost their house? Are currently homeless? Are dead by their own hand having been driven to suicide by economic ruin? You can’t help a President who will not help himself. Obama has no one but himself to blame for picking a horrible economic team and pursuing horrible economic policies.
oh and don’t worry about O if he does not win he will sail off into the sunset a richer man then before he was POTUS and he will have lots of work advising corporations and govts new ways to screw us. Tony Blair made $50 million last year, so I am sure and ex POTUS can at least equal that if not do better.
You cracked the code…
Sorry, but this dog don’t hunt. The median wage has dropped 8% and median net worth dropped 40%. Perhaps that has something to do with the lack of small donors. Perhaps high unemployment has something to do with it. Perhaps handing the keys of the US treasury over to the banks, leaving the rest of us holding the bag, has something to do with it.
Perhaps selling out US Sovereignty and thusly the US National Interest to trans-national corporations has something to do with it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html
By the way, Romney also supports the TPP and virtually every other policy position of the current administration.
Both Rombama and Obamney say, “Government can’t create jobs.” So maybe that has something to do with the lack of interest. Let’s face it: when you betray millions of people, you don’t have the right to expect their support next time out. People are funny that way.
“I’d rather vote for what I want and not get it, then vote for what I don’t want… and get it.” –Eugene Debs
So the best reason for voting for President Obama is that he isn’t Mitt Romney?
I’ll begrudgingly be voting for him, but don’t expect me to do much more.
Bringing Bush and Cheney to justice.
Bringing anyone on Wall Street to justice.
Fighting for another stimulus.
Fighting for what has been Democratic values for decades.
Fighting the Republicans on taxes.
Afghan war.
Foreclosure mess for homeowners.
Willingness to give the Republicans everything they want on entitlements.
Inability to use his office as a bully pulpit (as Reagan did).
Willingness to support Democrats and the unions (Wisconsin).
Jobs. Jobs. Jobs. So his stellar record on that has been?
Sadly, there are those who allow their cynicism to take them to a place that says there is no difference between Obama and Romney as the next POTUS.
I find that to be crazy talk, but to each their own.
Am I extremely disappointed in Obama since the 2008 election? Most definitely. But to take the position that Romney would be better is ridiculous.
To your point from HuffPost on Obama LLC selling out to mutinationals:
So do we vote for a man we knows lied about his politics and policies or do we vote for a known liar. Who to choose, who to choose.
Obama’s only hope now is that his base shows holding their collective nose and votes for him again. The right will show because it smells blood in the water. Personally, I’m preparing for 8 more yrs. of hard right Gov’t and the looting that it will entail. Obama has damaged the Left more then any Pres. since Carter. His Presidency has been a sad time in America. This man had so much promise and he squandered it all from day 1. He surrounded himself with people who gave him nothing but bad advice and he himself proved inflexible and arrogant. He turned out to be exactly the wrong kind of person needed to move the country forward after the collapse. He’ll be remembered as the Black Hoover.
Yep. I’m guessing Obama gets a second term as a plurality president; there won’t be a majority for anyone. Just a guess. I’m mulling the options, none of which looks good. Maybe a write-in.
That’s kinda where I’m at, too. And compliments on your “Left Undone” list. It is spot on.
He’ll do very well out of this, whatever the electoral outcome, and that will be quite enough for him.
Hectoring liberal web site readers didn’t work in 2010 and won’t work in 2012.
“Obama Trade Document Leaked, Revealing New Corporate Powers And Broken Campaign Promises”
Huffington Post
This may be part of the problem.
Hey Pam, do you read the Black Agenda Report? I daresay the writers there would say you need to do the waking up. Just daresayin’ . . .
I was kinda with you until you played the “Black Hoover” card.
The economy today is much better than what it was in 2008, not even close. Not anywhere near where it could be, but better than where it was.
LOve your article. Love the photos and the bar graphs. I really like bar graphs.
Obama HAS a BIG problem.
WE have a BIG problem.
Sure I THINK romney would be as bad a president as Bush (W). But who the hell knows? This guy is all over the place on every issue. Even his own staff had admitted (Etch a Sketch) that he will do or say whatever it takes to get elected. (Gee, I think we already HAVE a president who did that and didn;t follow through on his promises) Will Romney DO as he has said, or will he do as he has said? After all, the people of Mass elected him governor OF MASSACHUSETTS. Yes, he will have the RNC PTB to answer to. BUT, he would still be president. And, will he have a split congress or a democratically controlled congress?
So as my colleague dogjudge said, “So the best reason ot vote for Obama is that he isn’t Mitt Romney”?
Anybody got a better reason I’m willing to listen. But, here in thge red state of Texas, I’m voting Jill Stein/Green Party to show my dissatisfaction with Obama and the whole Democratic party. My grandpa who was a semi-bigwwig with the part would be rolling over in his grave if he saw how useless and clueless the party of FDR, Truman, JFK and LBJ has become. And he’s buried in a mausoleum.
Excellent line from Debs!!
The extent of my caring about the 2012 Presidential Election is this: there are a good number of people out there who have fallen for this “Romney would be so much worse” rhetoric that is the Democratic Party’s last serious pitch to the voters. The problem is that, as long as the likely-to-revolt demographic is plugged in to the Democratic Party, things will get worse, because the Democratic Party will get them to choose quietism. Making things worse is the “first Black President” phenomenon — the group in question needs to stop pretending that “Obama is really a liberal.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/30/1079054/-What-if-Barack-Obama-weren-t-a-leftist
The likely-to-revolt demographic needs to wake up. Depriving Obama of the Presidency seems to me to be a baby step in that direction.
What are we arguing? That Romney would be better? Or that he would be more of the same? You can’t have it both ways.
(Hint: the likelihood is that Romney would be more of the same, in which case your best bet is to ignore the major party candidates and focus on something else, like maybe electing Jill Stein to the Presidency.)
http://www.jillstein.org/
Indifferent or pissed off voters. Dems apparently in a panic about money that’s not coming in. Several “wars” going and more troops committing suicide than are being killed in combat. Americans in severe need of money just to live. No jobs, no homes, no hope. Killing children with drones. Need any more reasons? Obama brought this on himself. I think he will win by a few votes and one of them won’t be mine.
Whether Obama or Romney wins, I’m fucked either way. The only difference is how fast I am going to get fucked over – fast if Romney wins & slower (not exactly slow!) if Obama wins. Thus, I don’t give a shit about either Obama or Romney or about the Dems or Republicans. I’m voting third party (Green not Libertarian!) or leaving the ballot blank because the problems facing this country are NOT going to be solved at the voting booths and are NOT going to be solved by reverting back to the same old, stale, futile rationalizations that “Obama and the Democrats suck less than Romney and the Republicans”. I’m too damn fucking stressed and near destitution to have any time for that old garbage thinking and I don’t think I am the only one harboring such sentiments. If you want to wait 40 years for your progress, you go wait 40 years. The rest of us are going dumpster-diving.
WE get to choose between Coke or Pepsi.
But either way, we’re going to lose our teeth!
I will fight as hard for Obama as he fought for me in the Same-Sex Marriage fight here in NC. That means after the election I will say something kinda in support of Obama. The lesser of 2 evils is still evil.
Vote Green !!
Really? Unemployment was 7.1% on January 20, 2009, it is now 8.3% and was higher. The rate of homelessness, especially homeless children has soared. We are worse off. It is at least arguable that Obama is the more effective evil.
Speaking only for myself, I am voting for Jill Stein.
Oh I’m not checking out of the process. However, I refuse to allow the Unicorp-party to define my choices. I’ll be voting green this go round. I’ll watch those of you with masochistic tendencies flog yourselves for your choice post election though. There is no doubt in my mind that if re elected that job one for either D or R is decimate social safety nets like Social Security.
Actually, Hoover put more effort into creating jobs than Obama has. Like Obama, Hoover was beholden to deficit terrorism, but at least he started a few projects (like the Hoover Dam, right?) that created some jobs.
Obama, on the other hand, says, “Government can’t create jobs,” and so we’re left with solely depending on the Confidence Fairy to magically push the private sector to create jobs… which it won’t do, because aggregate demand is in the crapper.
I would say Obama is part Wilson and part Buchanan, with a bunch of Reagan on the side.
Bingo!
Pam you make good points and are probably right. But I really see no difference in even the long term if either of these corporatist narcissist authoritarians are elected.
I haven’t decided yet but am inclined to just sit out the vote. I know I am not going to work for the Obama campaign.
Just this one person’s opinion but I think it is our day of Fahrenheit 451 and the best thing we can do is to begin memorizing the truths of civil society and wait for our moment to come again.
What we need is a William Henry Harrison “type”. The man did absolutely nothing wrong during his presidency.
why am i supposed to care about obama losing? seems to me he deserves to lose for being a traitor and a lousy leader. is there a reason for me to reward him with my vote?
he and romney are indistinguishable. for myself, i will vote for a candidate i believe will perform well if elected, even if that is an unlikely outcome. we will never elect a decent leader if we continue to pursue this idiotic lesser-evilism strategy.
vote green!! jill stein for president!!!
Unless you are in a “purple” state, you’re best bet is vote Jill Stein/Green Party. Your vote will count more there than anywhere else.
Look for another Great Shellacking in November. You heard it here first.
http://youtu.be/_02j3qZEEHM
Democrats will find it in themselves to oppose many crappy things that Romney will propose that they now support Obama for. Romney might wind up doing less damage than Obama has done.
Yeah, that’s about right. Oh, but he’s “really a liberal”!!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/30/1079054/-What-if-Barack-Obama-weren-t-a-leftist
Wadda buncha rubes.
What if Romney was gay, or a woman? We never had one of those before. Hey, wait, we never had a Mormon before, either. Everybody gotta get a turn. /s
The lack of historical perspective in these comments is amazing. No one expects a lot of enthusiasm on the left to re-elect Obama, but I would remind you that much of what is being said here is exactly the same as what was said of Gore in 2000. So fine, many on the left voted Green and said 4 or 8 years of Bush wouldn’t be any different than Gore. Tell that to the many thousands dead in the Middle East. Tell that to the many thousands devasted by the financial crisis. Tell that to the US government, which went from surplus to deficit to pay for Bush’s tax cuts. Tell that to the tattered remnants of the environmental movement.
And for those who say so much for this one, we’ll wait on our next messiah – you were all here four years ago praising Obama to the high heavens and speculating on what a stupendous progressive agenda he would carry out in his first term. That was wrong, so what makes everyone think they’ll be right the next time?
I won’t even presume to predict what would happen in a second Obama term, or how many more times he might disappoint many of you. The only sure prediction I can make is this – if Obama loses to Romney, there will once again be unity on the left as we coalesce to denounce the horrible things that Romney and the GOP will do to this country. But at what price? How many more people will suffer under GOP hegemony this time?
There are many thing Obama could start to do right now that could indicate that he has learned the lesson and will be a progressive president in his second term. Words don’t work any more and I just don’t believe anything he says. He’s going to have to show me. He has the time.
Really? It’s devolved to this? We gotta vote for “the good guy” or else the big bad boogeyman will do unspeakable things to you, things that might even make Ron Jeremy blush?
—sigh—
Even sadder still, there are people who misrepresent those who once supported Obama and now do not, or those (on the left) who never supported him by claiming their argument is “there’s no difference between the two” and arguing against that strawman rather than attacking the actual argument, which is almost always actually “on these issues which impact us most, the differences between the two are so slight as to be negligible.” But do carry on with your hysterical strawman.
Anything for Team D, eh?
And, when I read stories like this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html I have to ask myself how much worse could it get with Romney. At least, if Romney had a house and senate in republican hands, he’d probably spend like that drunken sailor GWB.
Can you talk me off the ledge?
Actually, Coolidge signed the legislation authorizing the dam in 1928. The actual building didn’t start until 1931 but all the planning, etc had already been done.
Don’t want Romney but I don’t want obama either.
Will vote Green or whatever leftist 3rd party option there may be here in KY. If none, staying home. I urge all porgressive sin red states to vote third party on the left. Make your vote of some use.
I will never vote for Obama again. It’s going to be third party definitely.
PhoenixWoman, is that you? Seriously, can’t we ever move the political analysis beyond the simplistic pretense that 2000 defines every election that will ever take place where someone has the gall to offer a third party option? AND, you neglected that that wonderful administration Gore worked for signed the key legislative abominations in 1999 and 2000 that completely deconstructed the safety mechanisms of the financial industry since the 1930s, and enabled the economic collapse. BUT, let’s keep it simple for a moment, and I’ll just say that if your last paragraph prediction is correct, it will be worth a lot to me to have the left united in acting and speaking like the left again, acting like we all give a flying fuck about civil liberties and the Rule of Law again. Wouldn’t that be cool?
Think about all the things the Tea Party Regressives have said they want to do. Those aren’t empty campaign promises, they’ll do it. They may not be able to get rid of the Dept of Education, Dept of Energy, etc, but they can staff them will people who make it seem like the departments don’t exist. We have some of that now with the reichwing moles who have burrowed into these departments since the early Bush days. With a veto-proof majority in both houses of Congress they could turn the US into a feudal fiefdom in a decade or less.
Things are much worse for Obama than they appear to be. People who would never tell any pollster they will not vote; will not vote.
There is nobody to blame except, “Barack Obama”
I won’t try to talk you off the ledge. What I will do is say that I light up with delight every time I see your fonts, both because I love your handle, and also because you are so very smart and insightful in what you bring to the conversation every time. ((HH))
Pam Spaulding = Obamabot [a shill for crooked politicians calling themselves democrats]… and a sellout.
One by one… our betrayers show themselves.
One of the early methods employed to detect extra-solar planets was to block out the light from the star, in order to detect the reflected light of the planets.
This is the approach I’m taking with Obama. Forget, for a moment, about him. The people he is surrounded with are a who’s -who of entrenched establishment power. The banks are very well represented, and the MIC.
But who represents the people?
I won’t even presume to predict what would happen in a second Obama term
Yet you presume that Gore would have been better Bush? Why? Time and time again the democratic party leaders show themselves to be sellouts. But dems are expected to support sellouts over and over again.
Carter sold out so hard Kennedy ran hard against him.
Clinton sold out even more – especially in his second term
Obama broke every important promise he made like the good corporate whore he is and we should give him another term? What exactly do you think the democratic party stands for today? Fools who know better deserve what they get…..
Can you engage in a conversation without the name calling?
To start with there most likely would have been no invasion of Iraq and there would have been some actual credible government action on global climate change…two fairly large differences in actions.
D-Day has a fresh post up on this document and its significance. Required reading for pro-Obama arguers lol.
Aw shucks, (blushing)
And, to return the compliment: you are an excellent judge of character!
However, I was too late with an edit to my post, and I want to apologize to all the drunken sailors here. I should have said, “like that drunken half-term AWOL Air Force Reserve pilot.”
Actually, he was in the Air National Guard.
I get tired of Democrats holding up DLC founding member Al Gore (circa 2000) as some sort of uber-liberal hero as well. He wouldn’t have gone to war in the Middle East? I guess that’s why his running mate was Joe Lieberman. We wouldn’t have had this rotten economic climate? Yet he and Bill Clinton both supported the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act that deregulated finance and inflated the stock market that burst under Bush.
But hey, don’t let actual facts keep you all from blaming the Green Party and other actual liberals for the spot we’re in. Keep supporting the neoliberal agenda that brought us here instead.
Scalia met no opposition from the committee. The full Senate debated Scalia’s nomination only briefly, and he was confirmed 98–0 on September 17, 1986. This vote followed Rehnquist’s confirmation as Chief Justice by a vote of 65–33 on the same day. One committee member, Democratic Delaware Senator (and future Vice President) Joe Biden, later stated that he regretted not having opposed Scalia “because he was so effective”.
So much for the argument that democrats don’t confirm right wing judges.
No name calling from me…
It’s an appropriate term… just like Bushbot was an appropriate term to describe those people and what they were doing…
Which turns out to be exactly the same thing Obamabots are now doing.
These people have betrayed liberal-progressives… Obmabots loyalty is to the crooked politicians they work for…
My loyalty is to the American people and the future of our country… NOT a bunch of crooked politicians.
The whole “would Gore have been better than Bush” argument is irrelevant, because the purpose of that argument is to distract by means of a factually incorrect assertion (namely, that petty, pouty, spiteful leftists who voted Nader instead of Gore cost Gore the election, so Bush’s presidency and all its consequences is their fault).
The fact is that more Democrats voted for Bush than Nader. And, in Florida, the percentage of Nader voters who would have voted for Bush had Nader not run was something like 25% (for Gore it was something like 40%). Nevertheless there is a persistent cadre of Democratic Party loyalists who insist on pushing this empirically false assertion, but the total number of Bush Voters Who Were Democrats absolutely dwarfs the Nader Voter count regardless of what they would have done had Nader not run. Gore lost because he ran an ineffectual campaign and distanced himself from Clinton. Period. It’s not Nader’s fault. It’s not Bush’s fault. It’s not even the reprehensible SCOTUS’S fault, because had Gore actually run a higher quality campaign SCOTUS would not have been in the picture anyway.
Why this cadre insists on doing what they do is anybody’s guess. My best guess is they are blinded by their loyalty to the Party and, like their counterparts in the Republican party, just aren’t bright enough to consider any argument that doesn’t fit within their Party Loyalty orthodoxy.
In fact, it’s this same orthodoxy that leads this group of people to insist that “Not a Republican!” is a good campaign slogan to have on a bumper sticker (for example), when in reality nobody outside the hardcore 20% supporters (in either party) would even give a damn about that weak message.
well said.
I keep hearing, we’ll go over the cliff fersher, but it’ll be slower with an Obama president. I daresay gutting SS and Medicare will be more difficult for an R president, and it’ll be done lickety splity if Prez Osterity gets in again.
Well, I’ll accept your rationalization. You are working, boots on the ground, for a progressive candidate in your district, right?
Actually, Nader knew full well, contrary to most of his pronouncements and those of his backers, that Bush was worse than Gore — that’s why he wanted Bush to win in 2000, because he figured Bush would finally, finally get the American public so angry that they’d revolt and turn back to the left.
Didn’t exactly happen that way, did it?
It didn’t work in 1980, either, when Teddy Kennedy’s primary challenge fatally weakened Jimmy Carter and let Ronald “Let’s slash the top tax rate by two-thirds and run a deficit we can then blame on social spending” Reagan win. (And Reagan didn’t even have the benefit of Limbaugh and FOX News warping people’s minds.)
Jill Stein is not gonna be the next POTUS.
Nothing against her, just fact. Now, voting your conscience is great, and will make you feel good, but the next POTUS will be either Obama or Romney.
Wanna bet $10,000 on it?
Obama is making this so difficult. I thought I would just hector him and his militarist policies that benefit the plutocracy and ignore the depth of despair that the American people are feeling, and then vote for him in the end as he saw the inescapable wisdom of cutting the trillion $$ war budget. I thought I would wait and watch for some shred of environmental pragmatism regarding climate change and energy policy that would emerge and make sense, encouraging me to vote for him, and a jobs program But alas, it is to no avail. And so here I am, along with so many others who know that Romney will be an awful president. As the rich mans candidate (yes, much more than Obama!) he will destroy our remaining dilapidated infrastructure, sell off the public treasures as quickly as he can playing out his juvenile fantasies of power, and spur on the right wing drift to fascism. But what of Obama and the Democrats? Hillary waits in the wing for 2016 to restart the Clinton dynasty? Is that really all? It makes me ill just to think of it. Whether the vote validates Obama or not, the Democratic Party needs to be destroyed. It does not serve us. And it is truer now that this government does not represent us then at any other time I can remember.
Maybe it is time to break up the Republic, or certainly to at least have some kind of Constitutional Convention, (yes, I am aware of the inherent danger of that.) Electing and re-electing the same corrupted puppets over and over again, will only strengthen the plutocracy and cement inaction, while the wolves of climate change are at the door and the worst of America are barricading their enclaves, ordering more silk and jade, and teaching their kids Mandarin.
Yes, indeed, I am an excellent judge of character. Always remembering that there is a difference between having character and being a character. (h/t Winston Wolf)
x2
Look, I’m not (nor want to be) Jay Carney, but you cannot be serious. Not when this economy was losing 700,000 jobs per month when he took office.
“Wake the F up, people. Do you really want Romney as President?!”
No, wake the F up, Democratic Party!
I will not vote for Obama! I don’t care if Satan, or his Mormon equivalent, is running against him. Obama and the Dems have been a disaster over the past 3 1/2 years. It’s time to throw out the whole leadership and start over.
Pres. Obama has treated the liberal wing of the party like lepers for his whole 1st. term and now his campaign and Obamabots are telling us we have to vote for him. Guess what, we don’t and many of us won’t. That’s not our fault it’s his. So, please, don’t tell me to, “Wake the F up,” Obama’s problem is that I have been awake.
Do I, “Really want Romney as President?!” No, but apparently Obama does.
Agreed. They can look for their votes in the “Other” column on their elections supervisor’s website the day after the election. Both parties figure those numbers in before the election because it remains fairly constant every cycle.
The no shows end up at county commission meetings screaming about the property tax increase they didn’t vote for.
While it’s too bad your “historical perspective” only goes back a whopping 12 years, this bit is spot on:
On the first bit, yes, a Romney presidency offers up the opportunity for real resistance. That’s a major PLUS.
As for the suffering, you assume people will suffer more under Romney, but you fail to lay it out in detail. The problem, of course, is that you can’t… because Rombama’s and Obamney’s policies are nearly identical.
So the suffering is a given. It will happen anyway and in roughly the same proportion, under either one of them. Indeed, in terms of making the elderly, disabled and poor suffer, Obama will probably do more of that than Romney, since destroying Social Security is HIS “Nixon goes to China” moment.
Take off your blinders and start thinking outside the establishment tunnel-vision. Romney will be worse in some ways. Obama will be worse in other ways. The bottom line is that either way, our national depression will get much worse, people will suffer and die for it… and all this will happen regardless of which CROOK gets elected.
The best thing we can do now is delegitimize both major parties.
As long as you’re going to reward him when he does whatever he wants anyway, everything on that list will remain undone.
Cheap shot, Pam Spaulding still believes that Obama is the best choice, but is not an Obot. Go over to Balloon Juice if you want to see what Obots look like.
Yep…
I’m working for… advocating for… and shouting at the top of my lungs…
STOP VOTING FOR CROOKED DEMOCRATS AN CROOKED REPUBLICANS… ALL ARE CORRUPT.
The two party system has failed. The corruptors of our government figured out one very simple thing… in order to get everything they want… all they had to do was corrupt BOTH parties… and thats exactly what they have done.
The battle is between the American people and our entire corrupt democratic and republican government.
As in the midterm… I will be voting for Independents [not affiliated with any political party] and third party candidates ONLY. NO democrats or republicans. I will be voting for Jill Stein for president.
I REFUSE to vote for crooked politicians… doing that is what has given us the entirely corrupt government we have now. Voting for crooked politicians is EXACTLY what the 1% want you do… and Pam Spaulding is working for them to get that done.
NOT ME. I refuse. I stand up for what I believe in.
I REFUSE THE BRAINWASHING
I REFUSE TO HAND OVER MY MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IN THE FIGHT AGAINST CORRUPTION [my vote] TO A BUNCH OF CROOKED POLITICIANS.
I hope everybody will look at that stupid link you keep endlessly dragging out as though it was written by the Finger of God, and ask the appropriate questions, like, who wrote it, when was it written, what was the writer’s allegiance and agenda? Also, why should it stop us forever from thinking afresh about the actual current situation as though it might not be totally resolvable on the basis of simplistic, ill-fitting historical analogies?
No it’s not.
It’s an appropriate response to someone who’s loyalty is to a bunch of crooked politicians.
My loyalty is to the American people.
Ah, finding a winner to bet on-the essence of democracy.
You’re probably a Yankees fan too, right?
Gotta go with indy on this one. Her apologism is all the more insidious for its, at times, indirect nature. She can not, will not ever see Obama as a problem. That’s a bot, to me.
No, but please tell me how Romney would be better.
I agree with you.
But I also agree with Pam that O has miscalculated. There will be many who sit this one out, pissed. Add to those all the closeted racists who never intended to vote for O anyway, in spite of their magnanimous talk.
But after that, I’m really pleased to read Jill Stein’s name more and more frequently here. I’ve been in the Green column for the past 4 elections. Meanwhile less and less mindless gibberish about the folly of a multi-party system. Nice. Takes the edge off my cynicism.
As cmo3p points out, he would likely galvanize liberal and progressive opposition. In that way, he may actually be less able to do damage than 0.
Well said..x2
I guess you didn’t read the part of my comment about how the argument you’re peddling is irrelevant, with the supporting information below, yes?
Time to Move On, as it were, from over a decade ago and get with actual reality as it is now. Not that your version of the historical realty then is anything but fantasy, either…
Those who can see no outcome better than the status quo must try to make it solely an Obama vs. Romney issue.
If they succeed, with the best intentions all around, then the terrorists will have won yet again.
Nobody believes Jill Stein will be president, for Christ sake. I was 1 out of a grand total of 8 Green votes in my whole town, 2008. Nor that we will develop a coalition system in one election. But when counts are made, the fact that I’m registered Green says more than if I register Dem.
Who knows what we might have today if only that little pip-squeek Ross Perot didn’t pull his plug and disintegrate some time ago. I’m hoping for a future my grandchildren could see. It won’t happen if it doesn’t start somewhere. What the fuck are you going to waste your vote on?
No, I’m not an Obamabot (again, anyone who says that hasn’t read my back catalog); what I care about, as a lesbian living without a state ENDA or recognition of my marriage, is the fate of the Supreme Court, and anyone who thinks the selections that Obama would make would be the same as Romney/Bork is smoking strong stuff.
Is he the perfect President? No, and people on FDL have a long list of reasons they disagree with any number of his policies. Notice I don’t do the name-calling on that front.
But I will vote for him in November and work to keep Republicans out of the NCGA. It’s bad enough that the tool leading in the polls, Pat McCrory, is an ace homophobe. Anyone sitting home in November is not working for change, and shooting themselves in the foot by not caring about the local races that matter in day-to-day living. And that’s how fundies take over local government, school boards, etc. They know the importance of infiltrating the political process while the left sleeps.
Barack made it very clear that catering to bankers and their desires is more important than anything…I have no doubt he would put whoever they say into the SC…just like romney would.
Yep Just like Clinton and his Annual fellating of Pete Peterson.
This is where the simple truth… exposes you.
Jill Stein [Green Party] would be infinitely better on ALL the issues you claim to believe in… ALL of them.
But YOU… will be kicking your claimed “beliefs” into the dirt and stomping on them… on election day.
You will be doing EXACTLY what the corruptors of our entire government want you to do… you will give your most presious vote… to a bunch of crooks.
NOT ME… I stand up for what I believe in.
I REFUSE the brainwashing.
I REFUSE to hand my most precious vote to a bunch of crooks.
I will stand up for what I believe in.
You do realize it’s possible to cast votes in any given election and still not cast a particular vote in a particular race, right?
What you’re doing here is attempting to conflate political participation, voting, with voting on a specific ballot line.
Thanks for catching and correcting that!
Add to my apology list all drunken half-term AWOL Air Force Reserve pilots here.
Mr Obama needs to simply level with the people about what he’s doing. What he’s really doing. Then, however the vote, it’s honest. That’s the least he can do now. His credibility is pretty badly damaged with this latest trade deal revelation. Forget the leakers. Consider the subject matter instead. That’s the issue for us out here.
The differences for LGBTQ voters…
http://www.equalitygiving.org/2012-Presidential-Election
Thanks for that. Good point. I also saw where it was suggested all the austerity talk would go out the window if Romney was elected and controlled both houses of congress.
That last point may be true, but the ‘spending’ they would do certainly won’t go to the social safety net, wall street oversight, or foreclosure prevention programs.
Look for more war (every POTUS has to have one, don’t they?) and those tax cuts they salivate for.
The left is NOT sleeping…
I’m on the left [liberal/progressive]…
You’re not… you are on the side of a bunch of crooked politicians.
Thats what brainwashing does to people [think Jim Jones and David Koresh followers]. Obamabots and Bushbots are willing to follow their fake, corrupt “leaders” to their doom… NOT ME.
If Obama was really concerned about the balance of the Supreme Court, he wouldn’t have followed such a piss-poor and aimless economic agenda over 4 years, because telling people to hold their nose and re-elect incumbents based on the Supreme Court when they perceive the country is still going downhill is a sure loser. The responsibility for the potential of Romney nominees really lies with the agenda that included the Heritage Foundation health care bill, free trade with the likes of Columbia, and not holding Wall Street to account – that certainly wasn’t a course of action that liberals advocated. Average voters were never going to reward things like that with their votes for re-election while the economy cratered around them. Most people simply don’t re-elect Presidents based on the Supreme Court judges they might pick – certainly not when the President seeking re-election has such an incoherent economic prescription as this one does.
Frankly, the Democratic Party had notice served that “We Suck Less” was not an acceptable electoral case in 2010. That they spent the next 2 years extending Bush’s tax policies, looking for Grand Bargains, passing more free trade, and fretting about the deficit when there is mass unemployment, underemployment and stagnant wages, and waited until mid-2012 to make Obama’s case that “He Sucks Less” is hardly something that anyone but them can be held responsible for, and I don’t see why beaten-down former supporters are responsible for it.
Once again, voting 3rd party is fine. It’s the (small d) democratic way. I’d prefer even more candidates on the ballot. That said, the point I was trying to make is that when the smoke clears, one of two people are going to be POTUS.
Of those two, I’d rather have Obama than Romney. And for those here that prefer Romney, I was trying to find out why.
Check out this quote… about the Obama “trade deal” scam that came out today…
QUOTE: Judit Rius… U.S. manager of Doctors Without Borders Access to Medicines Campaign…
“Bush was better than Obama on this,”… “It’s pathetic, but it is what it is. The world’s upside-down.”
This… in a nutshell… is what it has come to. Total betrayal by a bunch lying fake crooks calling themselves democrats.
Not if no one votes for them.
No one is falling for your game any more. You want a crook elected.
I want an honest person… dedicated to doing the work of the American people.
You want a crook elected… and you are willing to be an active and willing participant in the corruption… by giving your precious vote to a crook. That will make you an active part of the corruption.
NOT ME… I will not tolerate lying, corruption and a total disregard of the American people.
I have to add one thing to this…
That would be Obama’s SECRET… “trade deal” scam.
Which he didnt want anyone to know about
Sorry, your scarecrow is a strawman.
A vote for someone other than an R or a D for president would not be a vote for Romney any more than would be a vote for Obama.
It would be a vote in favor of someone, and something, new.
Watch as Obama abandons you all again in his next move to overcome his pitiful polling. He knows he has the LBG vote locked up. He lost the smart envmnt vote already, same as the peace vote, and the civil liberties vote. He may still have the pot smokers, who knows? Obama’s aparatchiks, however, will focus in on the ‘disillusioned low info’ voters, once again throwing you and anyone who truly wants a progressive nation under the mad locomotive of political expediency.
This government does not represent you.
What on earth are you talking about? Where did I say anything about wasting a vote? And I never have (or ever will) suggest someone not vote their conscience.
Did I misunderstand? Or did I miss something?
Snark aside, has anyone in this thread stated that they would prefer Romney? That is what led to me describing it as a strawman argument.
Don’t forget that the “official” unemployment numbers are bogus – they don’t count those that have given up on looking for a job. It’s much more than 8%.
Another piece playing the fear card. In his first Inaugural address, Franklin Roosevelt told us that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Now we have a Democratic Party that has nothing to offer but fear itself. Pathetic.
Pam, fear not. At some poing before it’s too late, expediency must give way to principle. Playing this lesser evil game every 2/4 years as they move us further into the abyss is unsustainable. Better to draw a line in the sand now. The longer we wait, the harder it gets.
Don’t give in to fear. Obama is an abysmal failure. There is no hiding from this truth.
That would be the U-6 figure and it’s closer to 16%. The press only reports the U-1 numbers.
Double bingo! (If there’s such a thing.)
I will vote Dem under ticket if they support liberal issues, but have no reason to support a second term by Obama especially his leadership of the Dem party. I’ll vote third party. (Yes, I am a PROUD f&*king ret&*d!)
No shit. What’s the solution?
Above all else, not rewarding him for his constant in-your-face lies and betrayal.
For a minute there I thought I clicked on the wrong link and was at Daily Kos.
This whole “vote for Obama because he’s better than Romney” argument is, from the progressive perspective, stupid. If progressives fail to hold the Obama administration accountable for the open contempt that they have been shown then they have no one but themselves to blame for their lack of influence in Washington. If they abandon their values out of fear of a Romney presidency then they cede the field to a choice between establishment centrism and right wing lunacy. At that point things can only go in one of two directions: rapid national decline under Republicans, or somewhat slower national decline under Democrats. Because America’s problems are fundamentally systemic both parties are taking the country in the same direction, it’s just a question of how fast it gets there.
As much as it pains me to say it in the long term it might make more sense to swallow the bitter pill of Republican extremism now in the interest of getting to a point where it is possible to build a genuine national consensus in favor of reform. Unfortunately people often have to hit rock bottom before they’re willing to admit that the problem exists.
Don’t vote for him. Voting for him only supports more of shit.
Most of us don’t have the money to influence him or the other pols, so for the moment the vote is our biggest tool.
`Obama is a goddamned wall street republican. Soon after becoming President, he filled his cabinet with wall street bankers; this was a big clue: no hope and change, just the same old corporate, imperial totalitarian right-wing crap that we have had since 1981. Every four years Obama pretends to be a democrat…
post watergate democratic reforms of the 70s-ineffective
democratic war crimes governance policy-non existant
democratic governance of corporations-non existant
democratic protection of electronic voting-non existant
democratic protection of the middle class-non existant
democratic protection of the lower class-non existant
democratic elimination of corporate looting-non existant
democratic country first before political careers-non existant
Yes vote dem early and often
Could you please explain to us, in some specific detail, how you evaluate (1) the long-term cost to the country of messaging the Dem Party that they get your vote no matter how they govern , and (2) the personal psychic and moral cost to yourself personally of having to admit to yourself that you are willing to accept blatant betrayal and scorn from someone and still support what they stand for? Serious inquiry, because I truly believe this debate is really about how we each choose to do our personal accounting.
AND will now try to prosecute someone for telling us about!!!!!
Pam, I can understand that lesbian issues could override everything else for you personally, but for non-gays, that is not persuasive. This kind of identity politics and special interest tribalism makes it so easy for us to be divided and conquered. Think about it when you are alone and quiet. I won’t presume to lecture about something so personal.
That’s not quite Nader’s fault, is it? The Democrats became a bunch of right-wingers, denying America a choice, so blame Nader. Uh-huh.
Obama is a resounding success. We are the failure.
Unfortunately, the very first project entrusted to him as VP during the Clinton Administration concerned exemptions/deregulation of coal burning power plants in Ohio. Oh, and those closest to him, Hillary and Lieberman, have not turned out to be doves, have they?
It was clear while he was VP that he was heavily influenced by the DLC, and there was no reason to believe that that would have changed one iota had he become President. He practically admitted as much after the electoral debacle and said that “he could do more good in the private sector than in the public.”
So, no, I don’t think that those are necessarily differences that one could have counted on in reality. There were reasons why he was Primarird from the left that you do not seem to be taking into account.
So the “campaign for change” (not to mention the elections that gave us a fleeting Democratic majority in Congress), that we saw in ’08 was not the reaction that he foresaw? Seems like we saw some pretty liberal rhetoric on the stump that year.
Was giving him credit for forseeing the wave elections consequent to the 2000 debacle really what you had in mind?
Spot on…
Keep speaking out.
“Pam, I can understand that lesbian issues could override everything else for you personally, but for non-gays, that is not persuasive.”
And that’s right — you have your basic civil rights, and I do not. So it does fall higher on my priority scale for me than it does for you. If there’s anything going on about divide and conquer it’s a position that minimizes the effect of one’s basic ability to go to work and not be fired for being LGBT that should receive some scrutiny.
You are free to cast your ballot for whatever candidate addresses the issues most important to you (or sit it out or do whatever form of political protest re: the status quo); I’m not here to persuade anyone — I am expressing my opinion, and you all are expressing yours — and I don’t feel the need to call anyone’s dissent “stupid” or resort to name-calling as some are doing here.
BTW, the vitriol directed at my position on this post is amusing given the same level of vitriol that has been directed at me over the last two years by the gays who were in the Obama camp. My criticism of this administration’s foot-dragging and the complicity of the LGBT beltway orgs was seen as “trying to destroy the President” and I was pushing too hard for action on LGBT rights issues, and I was “not giving him time”, etc. Obviously people are going to interpret things through their personal political lens, but the disparity is quite hilarious.
I’m not attacking you, just asking you to take appropriate note that the civil liberties of not being indefinitely detained, not being droned, freedom to protest, etc. are being lost by all, straight or gay. There is a whole forest surrounding your tree.
Electing crooked and corrupt politicians… is NOT the answer to the countries problems or anyones problems.
We have the power of our vote… and we have alternatives to the crooks running from the two corrupt political parties.
I will be voting for Jill Stein – Green Party, who is vastly superior in virtually every way to the crooks you are shilling for. I will never vote for a crooked Democrat or Republican again as long as I live. They’re crooks.
LGBT have been PLAYED for their vote just like liberal/progressives were played for thier vote. These are sleazy, slimey games being played on us by sleazy slimey politicians. While these creeps play their sick games for votes… behind closed doors the Democrats and Republicans are working hand in hand to loot the country, destroy freedom and civil liberties, gut the environment, murder and kill innocent children in their lust for military control of the world… and on and on and on and on.
This cant go on any longer.
And one more thing.
I am and always have been 100% in favor of equal rights for ALL citizens. In fact I will go one step further… I am for equal rights for ALL citizens of all countries on the planet… everyone in the world.
Where you made your mistake was in “siding up” with a bunch of crooks to get what you want… which is exactly what the crooks running the country want you to do. These crooks played you.
I want honest people committed to doing the work of the American people running the country… NOT a bunch of sleazy game playing crooks.
Who is minimizing that at all? My position is that we’ve got no VIABLE third party option, so it’s Romney or Obama. Many are choosing to sit it out or vote third part, and here arguing there’s no measurable difference, which is clearly not the case. That doesn’t absolve Obama for any number of issues where he has fallen short/gotten in bed w/big business/name your sin, but it’s disingenuous to say he’s the same as Romney, who exists in a party that is openly racist and regressive and nowhere the same on LGBT issues. That’s patently false. On the other issues, it’s pick your poison, no doubt, and all of you vehemently against Obama won’t vote for him. Fair enough; I wouldn’t expect any of you to change your perspective. But I’ve been more respectful of other’s positions on this than most of you have been of mine.
Maybe if you would advocate for and vote for third party… then we would have a viable third party. But instead you announce failure before you ever try… which is the classic Obamabot Bushbot game.
Virtually everything you are saying is symptomatic of brainwashing. You’ve been played… the first step is to realize that and then do something about it.
The two party system has failed. Both parties are corrupt to the core… equally. There are no answers to be found in the two corrupt political parties.
“Wake the F up, people.”… your opening statement. You need to take that pointing finger and turn it around and point it at yourself. WE are awake… we know we’ve been played… and we have moved on.
Current party affiliation:
Republican 24%
Democratic 32%
INDEPENDENT 38%
Your pre announcing failure of third party is bunk. There are now more registered Independents than at any time in the last 75 years. We are ready and willing to advocate for and vote for third party. You are living in the past… a past of mindless loyalty to a bunch of crooks.
The American people have awakened…
Egos get bruised easily online, we should all develop thicker skins. How do you ever expect to have a VIABLE third party unless you send the message that there is a market for one?
I have to amend my own comment…
“We are ready and willing to advocate for and vote for third party.”
That should say… third party, fourth party, 100th party and INDEPENDENTS.
This fact can’t be blamed on those who have been working hard to establish a third party in America.