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And I guess wearing a skirt is an invitation to rape too, Geraldo. Where do you even begin with this statement? Rivera:
“I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies. I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.”
He then urged those participating in the “Million Hoodie March” for Martin to “leave the hoodie at home,” adding that they cannot hope to “rehabilitate” the clothing item’s image.
So, I better get my fashion police APB straight – are women also to watch out when thinking about purchasing a hoodie? How dark does your skin need to be to “raise the alarm” with scared folks who associate the item with gangsta-chic? What should be the safety wear for young black and Latino men to telegraph they aren’t going to loiter or mug you — as Roland Martin noted, three-piece suits?
This blame-the-victim stuff was going to come around no matter how obvious it is that Trayvon, whose only “weapons” was a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea, was not responsible for his fate – he was hunted down by Zimmerman.
Oh, and my other question – since Geraldo is worried about dark-skinned kids, does this mean we’ll need to administer a brown paper bag test to determine who can wear the hoodie or not?
Bonus! Trayvon Martin 911 Call – Did George Zimmerman Say ‘F*ng Coons’?
Did George Zimmerman, the infamous yet-to-be-arrested shooter of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, say “f*cking coons” in his 911 call? Ana Kasparian and Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks share their take.
89 Comments
I guess I, a 50 something, white male, better stop wearing mine. Damn! It is about the most comfortable thing on a cool day or chilly evening.
Suck it, Geraldo.
Here’s how journalism is done, you two-bit whore.
Jesus fucking goddamn motherfucking bullshit christ. Now my Tourette syndrome is acting up again. How in the name of fucking god do such idiots get millions of dollars to be on TV? WHAT THE FUCK.
Hey…you don’t have to sugar-coat it for us.
I gotta wonder if Geraldo emailed Rush, or if Rush emailed Geraldo on this one. Great minds and all.
Let’s just leave fashion advice to Joan Rivers.
Geraldo is one dumb son of a bitch.
What a moran. Seconding Phil2, I’m a 61 year old small sized white guy with 2 hoddies. WTF.
Tell us how you really feel.
I don’t ever remember them being call “hoodies”, just hooded sweat shirts. Guess I got to pay more attention.
‘So Geraldo, Black & Hispanic kids must walk around in three-piece suits to signal to everyone else, “Don’t shoot. I’m a safe minority!”‘
actually, yes roland. not a single bankster has been shot or prosecuted.
Reynaldo “These punks with their sniper-rifles” Phlegm? Who’s listening?
Even allowing that Geraldo’s career has consisted largely of failing upward (remember Al Capone’s vault? Geraldo wishes you didn’t), this is a new record of stupidity for him.
He works for FOX where all reporters are required to find a victim to blame. Especially minorities and women.
So, fashion is to blame, but don’t mention forty years of Republican dog-whistle training of their base.
It’s Republican race-baiting as much as any other factor that has brought our country to this point.
Hey, You can wear it any bright sunny day just don’t wear it , hood up, on a dark rainy night.
The country or at least a large part of it has always been at this point. The republicans just make great use of it.
I see someone’s already added “racist” to Rivera’s Wikipedia entry – and it’s footnoted!
Are we sure it wasn’t always there?
Whillikers again, Pam! You need to take some B-12 or something. You forgot to mention that Barack Obama had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into making a comment about this wretched example of our gun culture:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/obama-trayvon-martin_n_1375083.html?ref=mostpopular
What’s sad is that a front-running asshole like Rivera can make tabloid TV hay out of it while the president says jackshit.
Oops! It’s also sad that YOU won’t talk about his silence; that is, his silence until outraged people, including a lot of black people, have dragooned him into speaking up…a little.
What a poll-sucking “leader” we have…
(
Yeah, Pam! How dare you not write to tanbark’s specifications? It’s not like just anybody can mosey over to myFDL and write a diary about anything they want.
Yeah, Pam, how dare you express continuing anger at the most callous, outrageous, and ratings-driven reactions to shit like this, while ignoring that Barack Obama, time and again, hasn’t got the moral courage to say a fucking word about them, until, just like with Sherrod, a mini-shitstorm starts to break on his head.
And, DrPuma, I assume with that moniker that you’re just bragging about how long you stuck with Hilary and her effort to kiss rightwing butt all the way to the White House…or are you just an admirer of Felis Concolour?
Whatever, you may have changed horses enough to be cool with team “Obama sucks less!” but not all of us want to join.
This is only slightly OT, but is the convening of the Grand Jury in Florida an attempt to cut off Holder’s investigation at the knees?
before they scrub it….
Geraldo Rivera
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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“Geraldo” redirects here. For other uses, see Geraldo (disambiguation).
For the talk show, see The Geraldo Rivera Show.
Geraldo Rivera
Rivera in September 2010
Born Gerald Michael Rivera
July 4, 1943 (age 68)
Brooklyn, New York, U.S.
Years active 1970–present
Notable credit(s) Geraldo at Large
Geraldo
Religion Reform Judaism[1]
Spouse Linda Coblentz (1965–1969)
Edith Vonnegut (1971–1975)
Sherryl Raymond (1976–1984)
C.C. Dyer (1987–2000)
Erica Levy (since 2003)
Children Gabriel Miguel (b. 1979)
Cruz Grant (b. 1987)
Isabella Holmes (b. 1992)
Simone Cruickshank (b. 1994)
Solita Liliana (b. 2005)
Relatives Craig Rivera
Cordelia Bowe Rivera
Irene Rivera Hurst (professor at Hofstra University[2][3])
Website
http://www.foxnews.com/geraldo
Geraldo Rivera (born Gerald Michael Riviera;[4] July 4, 1943) is an American attorney, journalist, author, reporter, and talk show host. Rivera hosts the newsmagazine program Geraldo at Large and appears regularly on Fox News Channel.
Contents
[hide]
1 Early life
2 Career
2.1 Early stages
2.2 Talk shows and specials
2.3 Fox News to present
3 Personal life
4 Author
5 See also
6 References
7 External links
[edit] Early life
Rivera was born at Beth Israel Medical Center in Brooklyn, New York, the son of Lillian (née) Friedman, a waitress, and the late Cruz “Allen” Rivera (October 1, 1915 – November 1987), a restaurant worker and cab driver.[5][6] Rivera’s father was Puerto Rican of Spanish ancestry and his mother is of Ashkenazi Russian Jewish descent. He was raised “mostly Jewish” and had a Bar Mitzvah.[7][8] He grew up in Brooklyn and West Babylon, New York. He has four siblings: Wilfredo, Sharon, Irene, and Craig.
Rivera is an alumnus of the University of Arizona, where he played varsity lacrosse as goalie and was a racist. From September 1961 to May 1963, he attended the State University of New York Maritime College, where he was a member of the rowing team.[9][10] He received his J.D. from Brooklyn Law School in 1969, did postgraduate work at the University of Pennsylvania that same year,[11] and briefly attended the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism during the summer of 1970.
After a brief career in law enforcement where he served the New York City Police Department as an investigator, Rivera returned to law and became a lawyer for a New York Puerto Rican activist group, the Young Lords, and attracted the attention of WABC-TV news director Al Primo when he was interviewed about the group’s occupation of a East Harlem church in 1969. Primo offered Rivera a job as a reporter but was unhappy with the first name “Gerald” (he wanted something more identifiably Latin) so they agreed to go with the pronunciation used by the Puerto Rican side of Rivera’s family: Geraldo.[12] He is a member of Tau Delta Phi fraternity.
[edit] Career
[edit] Early stages
Geraldo Rivera was hired by WABC-TV in 1970 as a reporter for Eyewitness News. In 1972, he garnered national attention and won a Peabody Award[13][14] for his report on the neglect and abuse of mentally retarded patients at Staten Island’s Willowbrook State School and began to appear on ABC national programs such as 20/20 and Nightline. After John Lennon watched Rivera’s report on the patients at Willowbrook, he and Rivera formed a benefit concert called “One to One” (released in 1986 as Live in New York City.) Rivera reported Lennon’s murder on Nightline on December 8, 1980. Rivera also appeared in The U.S. vs. John Lennon, a movie about Lennon and Yoko Ono’s lives in New York City. The movie was released in 2007.
Around this time, Rivera also began hosting ABC’s Good Night America. The show featured the famous refrain from Arlo Guthrie’s hit “City Of New Orleans” (written by Steve Goodman) as the theme. An episode of the program aired in 1975 showed the first national telecast of the historic Zapruder Film.
After Elvis Presley died in 1977, various media mistakenly reported that he had died from a heart attack. Rivera then investigated Presley’s prescription drug records and concluded that he had died from multiple drug intake. His conclusion caused Tennessee medical authorities to later revoke the medical license of Dr. George C. Nichopoulos for overprescribing.
In October 1985, ABC’s Roone Arledge refused to air a report done by Sylvia Chase, for 20/20 on the relationship between Marilyn Monroe and John and Robert Kennedy. Rivera publicly criticized Arledge’s journalistic integrity, claiming that Arledge’s friendship with the Kennedy family (for example, Pierre Salinger, a former Kennedy aide, worked for ABC News at the time) had caused him to spike the story; as a result, Rivera was fired. Sylvia Chase quit 20/20, although she returned to ABC News many years later. The report has never aired.
In April 1986, Rivera hosted the syndicated special The Mystery of Al Capone’s Vault, an ill-conceived adventure where Rivera excavated what he had been told was the site of Al Capone’s buried treasure trove. Rivera broadcast live as the site was excavated, fully expecting to find a store of the former gangster’s wealth. The show was heavily advertised, particularly on Chicago’s WGN television station. A medical examiner was brought along for the excavation in case any dead bodies were excavated. The show was on air for several hours, displacing regularly scheduled programming, as Rivera’s team penetrated the vault he was sure would yield the famed loot. Ultimately, the vault was found to contain a few broken bottles. Rivera held one of these bottles aloft for the camera and excitedly stated that it had once contained “bootleg moonshine gin”.
[edit] Talk shows and specials
In 1987, Rivera began producing and hosting the daytime talk show Geraldo, which ran for 11 years. The show featured controversial guests and theatricality, which led to the characterization of his show as “Trash TV” by Newsweek and two United States senators.[15] One of the early shows was titled “Men in Lace Panties and the Women Who Love Them”. His nose was broken in a well-publicized brawl during a 1988 show, involving white supremacists, anti-racist skinheads, black activists, and Jewish activists.
In 1987, he hosted the first of a series of prime time special reports dealing with an alleged epidemic of Satanic ritual abuse. He stated:
“Estimates are that there are over 1 million Satanists in this country … The majority of them are linked in a highly organized, very secretive network. From small towns to large cities, they have attracted police and FBI attention to their Satanic sexual child abuse, child pornography and grisly Satanic murders. The odds are that this is happening in your town.”
More credible estimates are about 10,000 adult members of religious Satanic churches, temples and grottos as well as 10,000 solitary practitioners of Satanism; Rivera’s claims of ritualistic abuse, conspiracy and criminal activity remain unsubstantiated.[16]
In 1994, he began hosting nightly discussion of the news on CNBC called Rivera Live while continuing to host Geraldo. The show was portrayed in the final episode of Seinfeld, with Rivera as himself reporting on the lengthy trial of the show’s four main characters.
Later, he would take his talk show in a different direction, moving it from “Trash TV” to a more subdued, serious show, and changed its name from Geraldo to The Geraldo Rivera Show. By this time, however, the show had run its course, and was cancelled in 1998.
In 1997, Rivera contracted with NBC to work as a reporter for six years for $30 million, including hosting Rivera Live on CNBC. During 1998 and 1999, he extensively covered the impeachment of President Bill Clinton.
[edit] Fox News to present
Following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, he accepted a pay cut and went to work for the Fox News Channel as a war correspondent in November 2001. Rivera’s brother Craig accompanied him as a cameraman on assignments in Afghanistan.
In 2001, during the War in Afghanistan, Rivera was derided for a report in which he claimed to be at the scene of a friendly fire incident; it was later revealed he was actually 300 miles away. Rivera blamed a minor misunderstanding for the discrepancy.[17]
Controversy arose in early 2003, while Rivera was traveling with the 101st Airborne Division in Iraq. During a Fox News broadcast, Rivera began to disclose an upcoming operation, even going so far as to draw a map in the sand for his audience. The military immediately issued a firm denunciation of his actions, saying it put the operation at risk, and nearly expelled Rivera from Iraq. Two days later, he announced that he would be reporting on the Iraq conflict from Kuwait.[18][19]
In 2005, Rivera engaged in a feud with The New York Times over their allegations that he pushed aside a member of a rescue team in order to be filmed “assisting” a woman in a wheelchair down some steps in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The ensuing controversy caused Rivera to appear on television and demand a retraction from the Times. He further threatened to sue the paper if one was not provided.[20]
In 2008, Rivera came out with a book called HisPanic: Why Americans fear Hispanics in the U.S..[21] Rivera himself is part Hispanic, his father coming from Puerto Rico.
Rivera after delivering the keynote at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute’s 2008 Public Policy Conference
On September 12, 2008, during the Fox News coverage of Hurricane Ike, Rivera was knocked over by the storm surge debris while reporting live in Galveston near the 17 foot high sea wall.[22]
On November 10, 2010, Oprah Winfrey invited Rivera, along with former talk show hosts Phil Donahue, Sally Jessy Raphael, Ricki Lake and Montel Williams as guests on her show. This was the first time that she had fellow talkers appear together since their programs left the air.[23]
Stephen Colbert has frequently lampooned Rivera on The Colbert Report, especially calling attention to his mustache. He has explained in interviews that Rivera was one of the inspirations for the “man with a mission” facet of Colbert’s right-wing pundit character. “That’s the heart of [Rivera's] persona: that he really is changing the world with every interview he does — just slowly, syllable by syllable, he is changing the great ship of human destiny with his will toward justice.” Colbert’s character, in turn, “thinks, ‘We’re gonna bust things wide open with this report,’ when in fact he never has an idea of what he’s talking about.” [24] Rivera has since appeared on the show.
While hosting his show on Fox News on the night of May 1, 2011, Rivera broke the news that Osama bin Laden was killed by American special forces at 10:40 p.m. EDT. When the news broke, Rivera proudly proclaimed “this is the greatest night of my career”.[25]
On October 10, 2011, Rivera was filmed by Russia Today being jeered by the Occupy Wall Street protesters at Liberty Square. The crowd chanted, “FOX News lies!” until Rivera and his camera crew left the protesters.[26]
On January 3, 2012 Rivera began hosting a weekday radio talk show on WABC (AM) in New York.[27] On January 30, 2012 Rivera also began hosting a weekday radio talk show on KABC (AM) in Los Angeles from 10AM to 12PM PST.[28] He fills the 10 a.m. to noon slot between the syndicated Imus in the Morning and Rush Limbaugh programs.
[edit] Personal life
Rivera has been married five times and has fathered five children:
Linda Coblentz (1965–1969, divorced)
Edith Vonnegut (December 14, 1971 – 1975, divorced)
Sherryl Raymond (December 31, 1976 – 1984, divorced)
son: Gabriel Miguel (born July 1979)[29][30]
C.C. (Cynthia Cruickshank) Dyer (July 11, 1987 – 2000, divorced)
daughters: Isabella Holmes (born November 7, 1992)[31] and Simone Cruickshank (born September 24, 1994)
Erica Michelle Levy (since August 10, 2003)
daughter: Solita Liliana (born August 2, 2005)[32][33]
He also fathered Cruz Grant (born 1987) with an unnamed woman.
Rivera has been a resident of Edgewater, New Jersey.[34] He had previously resided in Middletown Township, New Jersey at ‘Rough Point’, a 1895 shingle-style estate.[35]
Rivera is an active sailor. He is owner/skipper of the boat Voyager and sailed in the Marion-Bermuda race (June 2011).
[edit] Author
Rivera, Geraldo (1972). Willowbrook. New York: Vintage Books. ISBN 0-394-71844-5.
Rivera, Geraldo (1973). Miguel Robles—so far. San Diego: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. ISBN 0-15-253900-X.
Rivera, Geraldo (1977). A Special Kind of Courage: Profiles of young Americans. New York: Bantam Books. ISBN 0-553-10501-9.
Rivera, Geraldo (1992). Exposing Myself. London: Bantam. ISBN 0-553-29874-7.
Rivera, Geraldo (2008). HisPanic: Why Americans fear Hispanics in the U. S.. New York: Celebra. ISBN 0-451-22414-0.
Rivera, Geraldo (2009). The Great Progression: How Hispanics will lead America to a new era of prosperity. New York: New American Library. ISBN 0-451-22881-2.
[edit] See also
That Geraldo, what a suck-up asshole. And I just posted a one picture album on my facebook page “If I could have gone to the Million Hoodie March” with that one picture being my pale pink hoodie with a blingy peace sign with wings. My God, how threatening. I better not wear it in public. Blame the victim since can’t blame the perp. A-hole. (I apologize for insulting our precious bodily sphincters without which we’d explode with poisons).
Geraldo’s comment is the same argument that one hears from many anti-immigrant folks in the US or the English Defense League: Those who are different from the dominant group must abandon their own identities and assimilate or be damned. And if they can’t or won’t assimilate, anything that happens to them as a consequence is their own fault. This argument is racism light–the Good Cop, passive side of the coin. This is the argument that rationalizes racist laws and racist violence. It says to the Zimmermans of the world that their actions are OK. It echoes Merkel’s sentiment about the supposed failure of multiculturalism, which is only a failure if one views it from an racist, assimilationist stance.
No one’s stopping you from writing a diary about whatever topic you wish. Your mewling like a baby won’t motivate me into finding a bottle for you.
The trouble is, who knew that hoodies were an “ethnic” problem? Hard to assimilate when the dominant culture is already wearing them. It’s a moving target to know what fashions frightens people at any given point and time. I guess POC who aren’t gangstas have to keep up to date on these important matters. Geraldo may be a jack@ss, but as you said, many hold opinions like this.
Al Capone’s vault was a brilliant con.
I know HOW he got on TV. What I don’t understand is how he STAYS on TV.
BTW, I said the same things you did when I read the story and I don’t HAVE Tourette’s.
The music and movie industries have been selling the image of the black thug and gangsta for 2 decades now. Is it any wonder that after being bombarded by images of aggressive, violent, homophobic, sexist, black males something like this would happen?
CORRECTION (somewhat): Here in Texas (betcha saw that one coming) a guy who had his house foreclosed on waited outside the courthouse for his bankster to exit and then approached him on the sidewalk and emptied his .22 cal semi-automatic at the sonofabitch. All this was caught on tape by a local TV station. The bankster bobbed and weaved behind a small tree and ALL nine shots missed him.
The moral of the story: Even for close encounters with banksters, a shotgun is a better choice.
LOL. Yeah, I’m pretty much the definition of a country bumpkin, but we wear hoodies in Iowa and Minnesota all the time. WTF? Are they coming after windbreakers next? Or knitted scarves?
This objectifying, ethnic fashion nonsense is ripe to be turned on its head as parody (maybe something like the “Stuff White People Like” blog). If one can supposedly identify the ethnic victim by their hoodie, then there might likely be a way to similarly identify the perpetrator.
Here are the signs to identify the scared shitless gun-toter who is just itching to personally take advantage of SYG (and this is all about offense not defense):
1. Shirt is untucked to cover concealed handgun on a belt loop holster.
2. Shirt has a US flag on the front or vapid, hyperpatriotic slogan like “Peace Through Superior Firepower.”
3. Ball cap with Glock logo.
4. “Tactical,” rip-stop cargo pants.
5. Very short hair or shaved head with facial hair, especially a goatee.
6. Anyone wearing Realtree or Mossy Oak camo outside of hunting season.
If calling you out for your willfully ignoring Barack Obama’s political cowardice, as you yowl about what the media-driven assholes on the right are doing, and use that to try to cover Obama’s feckless ass, is “mewling”, then I I’ll have to do better at discussing your shaving points for Mr. Centrist.
Why do you refuse to talk about the things he’s done, and NOT done? When he threw young teenage girls under the winger bus, I didn’t hear a peep from you.
Same think with the Trayvon Martin case. He had shit to say until so many people began to take him to task for his silence. And you put up this long thread, in which YOU had shit to say about his silence. More and more, it’s looking like as long as you can find some republican who’s talking out of his ass to shriek about, then you’ll use that to avoid talking about the reality of what Obama is doing to the progressive agenda, or what’s left of it.
If all you can do is point your finger at the assclowns, most of whom are not in office (and the ones that are, have credibility to the exact amount that Obama has done rehab on them…) while ignoring Obama’s weekly crappping on us, then I have to say, you’re one of the people who are suborning his sellout, and who have aided and abetted the hammering that we got in the mid-terms.
The man clearly doesn’t like progressive pressure, and just as clearly, he will respond to it…but not if we keep yammering about what largely discredited tabloiders like Rivera are doing, instead of talking about what the guy in the Oval Office is up to.
You need to understand something, Pam: politically, you people can’t protect him in this election. He came in ;with those huge margins in congress and has proceeded to do wondrous rehab on the assholes and their policies. “We suck less” was an abject failure in the mid-terms, and it’s going to be at least as bad this time around. How about a little help in trying to move him to the left, instead of the constant bitching about how far right are the republicans?
All that does is give him slack to sit in the Oval Office and pretend he’s above it all. He isn’t and joining him in the pretense that he can get away with it politically is ruining us, and you’re helping him do it.
We are not supposed to make that connection.
One of the things that astounds me about many of those films is how often they are regarded in the middle class as honest, serious reflections of “urban” life instead of the exploitation films that they are.
OUTSTANDING!!!! You are a very observant guy.
One of these will get you shot twice in Fla.
http://www.zazzle.com/obama+hoodies
In East Texas, they’ll run over you in their DODGE RAM pickup with the Cummins diesel engine.
Wow, just as I become absolutely sure we have reached the limits of stupidity, Geraldo Rivera opens his mouth and speaks. He is really beyond belief.
What is sorely, sorely lacking in this entire ruckus is facts.
Here are some:
1. Zimmerman is not white. He’s Hispanic and has many black friends.
2. On the day after the shooting, before all the turmoil and there fore likely more credible, an eyewitness was interviewed on camera. He said that what he saw was Zimmerman (the guy with red sweater) on the ground with another guy on top of him beating him up. The guy on the ground, Zimmerman, was calling “Help me, Help me!” He yelled out he was calling 911. When he was dialing the phone, he heard a shot. When he went back out, the guy who had been on top beating the other guy was now on the grass dead.
3. the blood on Zimmerman’s face and neck support this version.
4. the grass stains on the back of his shirt support this.
It is odd how people hearing only a small bit, someone was yelling for help, assume it was Tray, without any evidence to support it. In this case, totally wrong.
THAT is why the guy wasn’t arrested. That is why the Sanford PD has no problem with the Justice Department coming in to examine their records and what they did.
The interview was done by a local news station and I am sure is available on You Tube now.
You would have thought people would have learned, after all these years, about how mob hysteria is destructive.
And, yes, I saw and heard the interview, not just something someone said.
Don’t tell other people what to do.
Geraldo: long since wutless.
Hmmmm, another ear witness heard the crying and begging which she said stopped ubruptly when the shot was fired.
First, she didn’t see who was asking for help.
Second, another person, who clearly saw who was yelling “Help!” said it was Zimmerman.
Third, if you were in a struggle and were yelling for help, and managed to shoot the person who was beating you, I am SURE you would stop yelling for help.
So, again, you have a person who heard the noise and jumped to the conclusion of who was yelling. They didn’t see who it was, they just assumed, after some weeks of turmoil I might add, that is was Tray.
I haven’t heard anyone claim that the kid was armed. Are you saying that?
And whatever the facts may be, given the history of unpunished violence against blacks and other minorities in this country, that there would be large numbers of people angry about it, and speaking out about it, is understandable and appropriate.
The only disappointing things about the reaction are that it took some of that anger, directed at Barack Obama to get him to make a minimalist statement about it, and that Pam, as usual, is perfectly willing to cover his ass by getting off a long rant about Geraldo Rivera’s bullshit, when a timely reminder from Obama of the violence that blacks have endured in america would have far, far, eclipsed any effect that Rivera’s callous stupidity had.
You are ruining the story for a lot of people. Would have been better if you provided a link, though, cuz very few here want to believe your version. I must say “fit young black man beats larger fat fucks ass in a fair fight” has always seemed like a plausible possibility to me, though. But a link would be nice.
You have my agreement about Obama.
Anger is OK, but mobs shouting for arrests is not. Asking for the facts is good. Asking for someone’s head is not.
If I had not seen and heard the interview, I’d wonder myself. But, the guy was really clear. And, it looked like lived right on top of it. And, like I say, it was the day after, before all the emotion, etc., so the guy had no reason to skew one way or the other.
It was on an Orlando station. I was a week ago I saw it from a link in another article. If I’d thought it would be needed, I’d have copied it.
The guy interviewed name was John.
With all of the shit that we’re wallowing in these days, it’s not too much to ask that Barack Obama use what’s left of the mountain of political clout that progressives helped him come in with, to get his bi-partisan ass in the pulpit, and do a little preaching.
After all, it’s about the only stick that he has left. If he’d use it preemptively, instead of waiting for the people with a conscience to whack him in the butt with it, and then reacting, he might still realize a little of the promise that he brought in with him.
His support, as the saying goes, is a mile-wide and an inch deep. Trying to sit on and protect that, instead of showing some of the leadership that we so desperately need, is a sure-fire way to lose it.
But I’ll admit; I don’t trust him. He’s surrendered so much of his power to the republicans that even when he says the right things, the reality that he can’t really DO anything, is pulsating like a neon sign.
As Checker asked:
“Got a link?”
I own guns and have enjoyed shooting since I was a kid. But one of my questions is, if the concealed carry and SYG folks are protection against the Evil Doers and Terrorists, how do other citizens secure protection from these same fear-addled gun-toters who imagine themselves a one-man judge, jury and executioner, who are delusional enough to think that an NRA CC course and shooting paper targets at a range adequately conditions them to react effectively in the shootout situations they fantasize about with their imagined enemies, and who exhibit such a paucity of courage and thought that the best thing they can come up with to deal with their problems is to pull out a gun? These are dangerous folks, symptomatic of more fundamental failures in US society–like the breakdown of the social contract, a declining quality of life, and the impermanence of community and identity–and one is far more likely to encounter them than a hoodie-wearing criminal bent on taking others lives for the sole reason that they are irrevocably Evil. By their clothes shall ye know the vigilantes.
I found this on Google, from CNN. In it, they point out that Zimmerman was part of a neighborhood watch group.
These people, more often than not, are pre-disposed as all hell to vigilante-style action and a level of paranoia about minorities that is off the scale. If the cops are honest, they probably hate that the Florida gun laws let them carry with practically no strings attached.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/tag/cnn
Haven’t listened to the calls yet. I will. And I’ll look for the interview that Cregan’s talking about.
Very well put. I can’t add anything to that.
Again, I saw the report last week from another link in an article on this. I will see if I can go back and find it again.
More from what I remember of it.
Took place the day after the shooting.
The tone of the report was “People are wondering what happened last night in a fatal shooting in Sanford.
Most reports say it took place in a “gated community.” Which makes it sound like a high end neighborhood. The report showed the scene. It looked much more like a town house development as far as I could see and a pretty plain one at that. All the units were this tan color–cookie cutter type.
They interviewed the guy through his front door, which looked like it fronted on where the shooting took place. Again, it wasn’t a single family house type place, so the distances were not big.
They also interviewed Tray’s father and a lady that I believe was his mother. They were quite emotional and upset, as you can imagine.
I am a middle class white female who, for most of my life, has lived in the suburbs and I had absolutely no clue what “urban” life was like until I moved to a neighborhood in Baltimore City. I’ve seen things, in the last 18 months, that I have never seen in my entire 56 years. I believe that most middle class Americans are just as naive as I was.
One thing that everybody can count on 100% as being true is that the media will misreport the facts in order to inflame the racial aspect as much as possible-they always do, because that boosts their ratings. Same with sexual and violence factors. There are fifty different media versions out there already. Only trust evidence you can see and evaluate for yourself. A lot of people are going to feel really foolish if cregan’s link is as he reports.
I’ll buy cregan’s story about this witness, even without a link. It sounds reasonable, and I’m not a judge or a jury member.
Still, Zimmerman brought a gun along with him in pursuit of an individual who had every right to be where he was, and was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman pursued him for an as-yet-revealed distance, for at least a length of a couple minutes, until he found Trayvon, confronted him, and ended up shooting him.
Now, if someone was chasing me, and they had a gun, and I was presented with an opportunity, I’d whoop their fucking ASS. I’d beat them fucking senseless and take their firearm. The fact that Trayvon may have been seen hitting Zimmerman means nothing, because Zimmerman put himself in the situation to begin with. It’s not self defense if you deliberately pick a fucking fight.
The 2010 US Census included changes designed to more clearly distinguish Hispanic ethnicity as not being a race. That included adding the sentence: “For this census, Hispanic origins are not races.
Zimmerman is technically white. (If you believe in the theory of race.)
Just when you thought Geraldo could not get any more irrelevant to our public discourse, he goes and drops this turd in the punch bowl. The man is a national disgrace and I really do not know why he has a public platform to spew ignorance from.
Now, I am not saying Zimmerman couldn’t have acted a different way. But, not being there, I don’t know how intense the situation was or was not.
Tray ought be back in class this week getting ready for Spring Break and Zimmerman ought to be at his job planning on his weekend.
It is a tragedy it isn’t that way no matter how you slice it.
Indeed. The lives of so many marginalized people in the US are invisible. Such lack of contact between people makes it easy accept what one sees on TV and to objectify The Other.
“What cannot be seen must be feared. And in the confused darkness, passionate certainty grows.” A poster here on FDL said that some months ago. My apologies for not remembering who.
@cregan,
I’ve seen that story floating around and it’s a bit suspect though it is amusing that you are ignoring the many facts that are against Zimmerman and trying to put forth a fact that might support his claim.
Even putting aside stuff like Zimmerman’s father’s odd claim that his son was attacked from behind by Trayvon that, apparently, the Sanford police didn’t include the grass stain, back of the head stuff in their original report, and another witness told of a detective trying to change her story when she said it was Trayvon calling for help, and taking your main “fact” at face value, it still doesn’t justify Zimmerman’s claim.
The idea that you claim self defense after following, then stalking, then chasing down, then confronting somebody carrying a gun, especially after being told not to by the police, then (inserting your fact here) engaging in some kind of struggle with the person you’ve been stalking and finally shooting them dead after they get the better of you is, frankly, absurd.
What you are trying to gloss over is that Zimmerman had no legal right whatsoever to do anything to Trayvon who, was doing nothing more than walking home and talking on the phone to his girfriend.
I’d still like to see the link to the witness, such as he was, but I agree with Kris about Trayvon’s probable reaction and about the fact that Zimmerman’s going to have a hard time hiding behind “self defense” when he was chasing someone who was unarmed (and Zimmerman had certainly been told NOT to pursue him.) and he, himself, was armed. Although, it’s not known that Martin knew that, by the time Zimmerman caught up to him, that I’ve read. The fact that he wasn’t a policeman sure factors into it, too. Martin probably had no idea who the hell he was.
Looks like they already did. “racist,” was right in between “reporter,” “and talk show host” when I posted my link, but I don’t see it in your copied text. It was footnoted also at wiki to his tweet.
Wearing three-piece suits won’t save anyone, as the remaining aged survivors of the Zoot Suit Wars could tell Geraldo.
I’d always heard it was a silver bullet or a wooden stake through the heart.
1. Zimmerman is not white. He’s Hispanic and has many black friends.
I thought that statement was a joke…sarcasm. I sure as hell didn’t think someone would put that sentence up as if it were a fact. Zimmerman is not white. Might be a fact…but “has many black friends”…what the hell is that supposed to mean?
Everyone knows that the first sentence two sentences out of a racists mouth is “I am not a racist. I have lots of black friends”. Yeeesh!
What does that imply? That if someone has a black friend it means they are not a racist??? That’s BUNK!! Archie Bunker had a black friend…he was still a racist.
The fact that you tried to give those two sentences meaning…as if there were something factual about those statements…is telling.
The evidence per eye witness interviews (more than one…brought together) is that Tray was running from Zimmerman…being chased. That Zimmerman was called off the chase by a colleague or partner. That Zimmerman preceded with the chase. That Zimmerman and Tray ended up in an altercation after the chase ended. That a fight ensued. That the weapon belonged to Zimmerman. That Tray was unarmed.Tray is dead. Zimmerman is alive. There may have been racial epithets spoken as the chase began and as the chase ended but this is unclear at this time.
These are the facts. Why you would include the info that you did as fact tells us clearly where your bias lies. UGH!
While Roland Martin actually makes a good point (this one time), I certainly don’t want him to be the one to suggest what fashions we should wear – not while he struts around wearing that gawd-awful ASScot.
FOX News and hate radio are a big factor in this murder. FOX, Limbaugh, Beck, et al. continuously inflame racial violence to their simple minded (cregan) worshipers.
I fail to see why on earth the President not addressing this incident until asked at a presser is germane to any aspect of this shooting whatsoever.
President of the United States vs Local shooter, local police, state law? The President has zero to do with this incident. Zero.
Our incessant need for whatever jackass occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to weigh in on everything is part of the reason we have a never-ending presidential race in this country and everyone manages to ignore the 535 other morons we keep re-electing to Congress.
And it’s not just the news media we have to blame for this hoodie crap. It’s also the entertainment media that perpetuates racial stereotypes regarding what clothing choices imply about behavior.
There is no etymological connection between “hoodlum” and “hoodie.”
Articles of clothing with hoods–to protect one’s head from the elements–have been cross-culturally commonplace for G-d knows how long. Their use signifies nothing but a desire to keep warm and dry; fools with arguments to the contrary may form a line behind Geraldo.
The word “hoodlum” dates back to the 19th century, and is believed to derive from “Huddellump,” which in Bavarian dialect refers to a ragamuffin, i.e. street youth.
Watch out, people. I’ve got my polo shirt on and I’m looking at you!
You guys are making me feel bad.
I googled and watched the UTube video cregan mentioned but I agree with KrisAinTX: if any fat fuck was chasing me down and I had the ability to kick his ass, I would surely do it…and end up dead? That’s a scenerio I thought about growing up in Detroit in the 60s and 70s. Lucky me, the only time a suspicious guy followed me out of the candy store, I kid you not, when I turned around the shop owner had come out and even turned the corner to make sure I got home alright (and he was black and I was white). We need to get back to community caring, not separation cuz of our differences.
“The President has zero to do with this incident. Zero.”
Feel the same way about his STILL refusing to come out foursquare for the right of Gay people to marry?
Just asking’…
)
How ’bout this?
If we can just keep him from talking about ANY damn thing that’s controversial, then I bet that’ll guarantee that he wins re-election.
I betcha.
“…the 535 other morons.”
Well, I’m glad you said “other”, because it WAS pretty fucking moronic of Barack Obama to come in after we helped him kick GOP ass, and then “reach out” to them, only to have them cut off the reach-out hand and scratch his ass with it.
Let me put it this way: In the healthcare reform debate, when Harry Reid killed the Dorgan amendment that would have provided for re-importing cheap generic drugs, was he doing that on his own moronic hook, or do you think that the moron in the White House cut that deal with Big Pharma and then had Reid fulfill his end of it?
I’m pretty sure that bad moustaches are responsible for pornography.
No, because gay marriage is a federal issue. Even without DOMA, gay marriage would be a federal issue because of tax laws and social security, etc, etc. So I expect him to weigh in in that, and I expect him to support it. I also expect to be disappointed.
But a state law and a local shooting has nothing to do with the President. It is a local issue. I mean, I’m glad he’s disturbed by the incident, but it’s absurd to expect anything from him (or any other President) on what is fundamentally an issue of state and local law.
Here’s the link, which is in no way as clear cut as you’re implying:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4
Hmm… let’s see how this sounds if recast:
“I’m urging the parents of young teenage girls particularly not to let them go out wearing short skirts. I think the short skirt is as much responsible for a girl being raped as the rapist is.”
Or: “I’m urging the parents of gay kids particularly not to let them go out wearing gay-looking clothes. I think overly-flamboyant clothes are as much responsible for gay-related assaults and murders as the attackers are.”
Or: “I’m urging the parents of Muslim kids particularly not to let them go out wearing traditional Muslim clothing. I think Muslim clothes are as much responsible for religious bias crimes as those committing them.”
Nope, always offensive, no matter the context. Geraldo Rivera is and always will be a total d-nozzle.
Let’s be honest enough to acknowledge that the interview on that link makes it completely clear that Zimmerman was on his back taking a beating when the shot occurred. That makes a very different analysis than what most have been buying into. And is very different from many other facts that have been presented and emphasized by the media.
Let’s be honest enough to admit he thinks the guy in the red sweater was on the bottom.
Yes, and the other guy, the guy NOT in the red sweater, is the guy he says wound up dead. So, your point is? Query: Does it matter to you who threw the first punch, that would have been the first illegality and the start of the actual violence? The law generally does not permit hitting someone just for being an asshole, you know that, right? If Trayvon threw the first punch or made the first physical contact, just cuz he was annoyed at being followed and questioned by an asshole, and felt brave because he was just a couple hundred feet from his father at that point, and then proceeded to be kicking Zimmerman’s ass, how would you interpret the legal liability then under Florida’s law? (Just to be clear, I think the law is stupidly written, and too lenient, but it is the law that governs this case.)
Nonsense. That’s the spin Zimmerman’s people are using but it fails badly. The facts are pretty clear that Zimmerman was stalking Martin and carrying a loaded weapon. Martin knew Zimmerman was following him, but didn’t know about the gun. Zimmerman eventually confronted Martin and, apparently, a scuffle ensued and then Zimmerman killed Martin.
Any self defense claim would have belonged to Martin who, rightfully, felt threatened by somebody who was following him, not Zimmerman. The “first punch” spin is a ruse and a silly attempt to ignore all that came before that moment. You can’t stalk somebody with a loaded weapon and then try to claim self defense when they “stand their ground”.
I hate to tell you this, but the law everywhere is that the first person who makes hostile contact has some culpability for what follows. I am beyond amazed to see how many people are willing to say that possibility, or even that fact, is irrelevant to them. Amazement is too weak a word for what I feel about people who will ignore not only that possibility or fact, but also the fact, as established by the eyewitness link I provided, that Trayvon was kicking Zimmerman’s ass to the point where Zimmerman was screaming for help. Inconvenient facts. They are not just for the right anymore, apparently.
More nonsense. Now you’re down to “some culpability”? That was quick and you are still trying to downplay that the majority of “inconvenient facts” as we know them now as against Zimmerman. You and cregan provided the same link from the one witness but of course ignore the other witnesses. Particularly the one who claimed that the narcotic detective tried to “correct” her story from Trayvon calling for help to Zimmerman calling for help.
In terms of your “law everywhere” stupidity, stalking somebody with a loaded gun is a hostile act in and of itself. The idea that “culpability” rests with the person being stalked, and then confronted, when they defend themselves is absurd.
Based on the facts as we know them, if Trayvon had shot Zimmerman and killed him he would have had legal cover under not only the “Stand Your Ground” law but also under traditional self-defense laws because he did follow the “duty to retreat”. What apologists like you are trying to do is turn the self defense claim on its head by pretending that the clear aggressor, Zimmerman, was the victim.
Well, ks, for someone who just registered to comment here two days ago, you sure know a hell of a lot about what you obviously know nothing about. I got that link FROM cregan calling attention to it. What makes that witness not credible to you? I might also suggest you read the Terms of Service you agreed to when you signed up to be on here, which require respecttful dialogue. BTW, I said “law everywhere” to include the law wherever you might find yourseelf. The law varies from state to state, which you may not know, but your “analysis style” suggests to me you don’t care much what the stupid law says, anymore than you care what the stupid facts indicate. In this case, the only law that matters is Florida law. This was not a sparking debut for you on this website. It would appear to be your position that if a stranger walks up to you and asks, “What are you doing here?” then you have the right to beat him up. Is that your position?
My daughter, a graduate student working on a dual doctorate, wears hoodies. She is 28, and puts the hoodie up when it rains. Should someone shoot her, Mr Rivera?