I believe that many of those that can blend in, will indeed do so. Still, for many, it’s a long, hard road to achieve that goal. Regardless of what road one takes, I do believe there is value to our community, in general, to be “out there.” My own personal feeling, is that one reason that gays have made such good progress in being more accepted, is because people actually knew someone who is gay; or they knew someone who knew someone. People were able to realize that they were real people with real lives. They loved, they died, they had children, etc. Gays weren’t the “perverts” they were often portrayed as. In other words they were human beings like them. While I don’t think its realistic to think that the majority of trans people will become more public, we definitely need to consider the good that it would do.

The ultimate goal for SOME trans people might be to blend in, but you can’t make a blanket statement about ALL trans people, because we are so amazingly diverse. For an example, both Darlene and I blend in when it is normal, everyday life stuff. However, when it is necessary to be visible and open, neither of us will shy away from the situation. You can call it “selective stealth.”

At work, practically everyone knows I’m trans, but it doesn’t matter. I’m there to do a job like they are. The company and my co-workers care about my knowledge and work ethic and not my body. At church, we are treated with respect, as we are at stores we shop at. If anyone knows, it’s not an issue. Places that don’t know us treat us as any other women. But, when we are involved with LGBT community issues, we are there as two trans women, lesbians. We get to select when we want to blend in and when we shouldn’t That to me is a more realistic way of being trans, rather than either of the extremes.

This being her second post on the subject, I surmise that Autumn would not be advocating this particular line of reasoning so dogmatically if a) she could successfully blend in and b) her paycheck was at risk.

And you would be completely wrong, Mak.

Ah. I see you’ve written on this subject as “me” on the Transadvocate post Closets are for clothes, stealth is for planes. Back then you wrote:

…Some people can give their experience to help make people aware of trans issues. Other people can use their voice, or their writing skills. Others can yet help by giving money to a trans cause. No path is better than the other. Each person gives what they can, in the way that they can.

I don’t know you, and honestly, if you’re out because you can’t blend, then I fell sorry for you. If you’re out by choice, well you have a far thicker skin than I do, but just because YOU do, doesn’t make anyone who doesn’t a coward.

And, I get that. I believe we should be out, but that you don’t believe as I do doesn’t make you evil, just as what I believe is different than what you believe doesn’t make me evil. But, you were, in my opinion, quite right to say there are many other things to do for community besides being out and public as trans. And, I’m hopeful you’re still doing some of those things.

I understand from searching online that you’ve had FFS. Appearance — “passing” — apparently is something that matters to you a great deal. And honestly, there’s nothing wrong with that.

However, please don’t project your concerns about appearance on me: I advocate being out because I strongly believe our next generations of trans people need as many of us to be visibly out in society to pave the way for others to have better transition experiences — regardless whether we pass or not; regardless of whether we have to suffer through discrimination and hate speech or not.

I don’t impinge your motives Mak for not being out, so please don’t impinge on mine; please don’t project your concerns or point of view on appearance on me as if your concerns or point of view are my concerns within the deepest depths of my soul. My concerns and my point of view are shaped by other values than yours — and again, that doesn’t make either of us evil, it just makes us different.

And just because I say something, that doesn’t mean anyone actually has to follow what I say.

I don’t impinge your motives Mak for not being out, so please don’t impinge on mine

But isn’t that what you are doing by laying a guilt trip on those that aren’t visible? You said as much in your reply to me:

<Then your blending into society, Mak, is detrimental to the generations of trans people who come after you.

As Bayard Rustin said, “People will never fight for your freedom if you have not given evidence that you are prepared to fight for it yourself…Because until you challenge it, you are not playing an active role in fighting it.”

I would say that your invisibility contributes to the number of states that don’t allow trans people to change their identification cards and birth certificates. I would say that your invisibility contributes to the trans people who don’t have access to appropriate healthcare — both for basic healthcare and for gender dysphoria. I would say that your invisibility contributes to not having employment and housing antidiscrimination protections in more than half of the United States based on gender identity and gender expression, as well as not having federal employment antidiscrimination protections.

There are transyouth who deserve a better world than most of us trans adults were born into. If you don’t join the struggle for their ordinary equality, for availability of appropriate and adequate healthcare for them, and for their ability to obtain appropriate identification documentation, then who are you relegating the responsibility for those things to?

And that’s the problem with what you describe as blending in. You leave the struggle for our next generations of trans adults and transyouth to others — and worse, you leave the fate of trans adults and transyouth to in part to the social conservatives. You know, the ones who would deny ordinary equality to all transgender, transsexual, and gender nonconforming people.

You didn’t ask me my motives. You just implied that by following my motives, I was wrong.

And just because I say something, that doesn’t mean anyone actually has to follow what I say.

Well, at least we agree on that.

Well, obviously we’re not going to agree on this.

But that said, wheras you perceived me as attempting to lay on a guilt trip on you, you definitely decided to “go there” and make a personal comment regarding my appearance, and suggested my appearance was the reason why I’m advocating trans people should be out.

Unless you’re following through with what you suggested people could do four years ago — stating that trans people can write, use their voice, or donate money for the cause — then what I said is still true: you’re leaving the work for the benefit of the next generations of trans people to others.

I know what you’re against — you’re against the idea that trans people should be visible in society. And if trans people are visible in society, you indicate your main belief is that they’re visible in society because they don’t pass — even though quite a number chose to be visible when they could fade away out of public view. But what I don’t know is what you’re for, and what you’ll work and sacrifice to achieve.

For me, I believe in the statements of Cesar Chavez:

It is not enough to teach our young people to be successful…so they can realize their ambitions, so they can earn good livings, so they can accumulate the material things that this society bestows. Those are worthwhile goals. But it is not enough to progress as individuals while our friends and neighbors are left behind.

And…

Perhaps we can bring the day when children will learn from their earliest days that being fully man and fully woman means to give one’s life to the liberation of the brother who suffers. It is up to each one of us. It won’t happen unless we decide to use our lives to show the way.

As well as this one from MLK Jr.:

Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable… Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.

My motivations are diferent that yours. I believe that that we, as a population of transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming people, have much to do for those who come after us.

Well, I believe it’s just not enough to know what each of us as individuals are against. I believe each of us needs to know what we’re for, and then be willing to work and sacrifice for it. And what I’m for is justice and equal opportunity for the next generations of transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming people, to include trans youth. For me, that’s what it means to be — as Cesar Chavez put it — fully woman.

So yes, Mak, I would rather you be out — not that I would force it on you, but I’d rather you chose it for yourself. It’s possible to achieve “passing” privilege, and to live a live where one is invisibly blended into society, but a life built upon those things leaves a pretty shallow legacy. In the end, I believe we will be judged by other standards.

But that said, wheras you perceived me as attempting to lay on a guilt trip on you, you definitely decided to “go there” and make a personal comment regarding my appearance, and suggested my appearance was the reason why I’m advocating trans people should be out.

Go there? You went there when you described, back in your other post on the topic, how you were called out by some twentysomething dudes on the street. From that, it is a reasonable conclusion that you are out because you are visibly trans. I also concluded, based on the fact that I’m aware of your retired military status, that you have a paycheck independent of current employment. In other words, you can afford to be out because your job isn’t on the line. Neither were personal attacks but merely observations based on where you are and who you are. There was no judgement in either.

Unless you’re following through with what you suggested people could do four years ago — stating that trans people can write, use their voice, or donate money for the cause — then what I said is still true: you’re leaving the work for the benefit of the next generations of trans people to others.

and as I stated, I both give money and help to trans youth. Or didn’t you see that either?

I know what you’re against — you’re against the idea that trans people should be visible in society. And if trans people are visible in society, you indicate your main belief is that they’re visible in society because they don’t pass

Really? Where did I say that? Kindly point that out to me. I have never, ever stated that all trans people should be invisible. Did you even read my response to you in your earlier post? Let me quote, then.

I was responding to the definition of “outing oneself” rather than the whole reason behind your post. There is no outing if one doesn’t consider oneself hiding.

I sense your point of view is colored by your own problems with blending, as I’m sure it wouldn’t occur to you to mention to the young man on the street corner your history if it wasn’t questioned in the first place. Having that as a daily reminder must hurt you deeply, and consequently focus your energies as an activist. I can appreciate that.

With respect to the rest of your reply however, I would say that my “invisibility” as you call it (I call it privacy), allows me to earn a decent living and provide for my family. It is, and they are, my first, and most important responsibility. You might feel a responsibility to the coming generations, but for me, that hardly ranks compared to my present responsibilities.

In addition, my “invisibility” (as you call it) allows me to earn enough money to give to causes that provide for people who choose to be activists; people who choose to be visible. That’s how I meet my responsibility to help others.

And finally, my “invisibility” allows me to selectively disclose my history to those who need to know, to those that I care enough to let them know, and to those that might benefit from it such as a trans youth, without compromising my other responsibilities.

Just remember…Walt Disney was the guy everyone knew as Mr. Disney, but it was his brother Roy who made them rich.

Now you know what I stand for.

So yes, Mak, I would rather you be out — not that I would force it on you, but I’d rather you chose it for yourself.

Maybe I might ten years from now. Or maybe never. One thing I do know is that whatever I do, it will be right “for me”, and not because someone has guilted me into it.

It’s possible to achieve “passing” privilege, and to live a live where one is invisibly blended into society, but a life built upon those things leaves a pretty shallow legacy. In the end, I believe we will be judged by other standards.

Darn it Autumn. This is such a judgmental point of view. Can’t you comprehend that your legacy ideals are yours and yours alone? Criticizing others for their life choices, and ultimately the legacy they choose to leave behind is just so…so…republican of you.

I guess calling me a Republican is better than resorting to stating that I have an inability to pass, and that’s why I’m out. You know, where you started your critique of this post.

Mak, I have a point of view, I’m arguing the merits of my point of view; in comparrison, you’re arguing in significant part with ad homeinem arguments — you’ve repeatedly tried to change the argument from whether or not one should be out to one that turns on me personally. I hope in the future that when you want to discuss issues, you get past name-calling and completely mischaracterizing motives and stick to arguing your point of view on whatever the issue is at hand.

As to the point of view you made in that last comment — where you stated my words were so judgemental and “republican”…Well! My statement was a paraphrasing of a Cesar Chavez quote with the intent to make the statement more trans specific. The original Chavez quote:

In this world it is possible to achieve great material wealth, to live an opulent life. But a life built upon those things alone leaves a shallow legacy. In the end, we will be judged by other standards.

I’m not exactly developing my “republican” points of view from Republicans; I’ve developed my ideas in large part from reading the essays, speeches, and quotes of civil rights icons. So no, “my” ideas really aren’t really “mine and mine alone.”

In this case, my ideas about being out, about working on issues, and about suffering and sacrifice to achieve civil rights goals have maturated within me by reading the essays, speeches, and quotes of Harvey Milk, Bayard Rustin, Martin Luther King Jr., Cesar Chavez, and Alice Paul.

Syvia Rivera also has influenced me too — You can read Leslie Feinberg’s interview of Rivera here. The last four paragraphs of the interview:

I’m glad I was in the Stonewall riot. I remember when someone threw a Molotov cocktail, I thought: “My god, the revolution is here. The revolution is finally here!”

I always believed that we would have a fight back. I just knew that we would fight back. I just didn’t know it would be that night.

I am proud of myself as being there that night. If I had lost that moment, I would have been kind of hurt because that’s when I saw the world change for me and my people.

Of course, we still got a long way ahead of us.

And I believe we still do.

Mak, I have been with Autumn in the public, and in stressful situations. We spent a couple of hours in an Atlanta AmTrak station while they looked for her lost luggage. She didn’t get those “I-know-what-you-are” looks. Neither of us did, standing together. I was with her in a Washington DC Italian restaurant, a Greek/Italian restaurant in Cobb County, GA (a well-known bigot county) and the base commissary in San Diego. My partner drove her around to computer repair places in GA and they ate at a mom and pop restaurant. Everyone anywhere saw her as nothing more than another woman. And, if they noticed, no one made any indication. Do you know when people notice you? Do you even care? She passes very well. So, your initial assumption is full of holes. If the real reason is that you don’t like Autumn, then don’t make baseless assumptions on something you know nothing about. It would have been better to remain silent and let people think you’re a fool then to type these words and confirm it.

Monica,

I appreciate you standing up for Autumn.

My comments about her blendability were specifically related to this:

Yesterday (Monday, February 13, 2012), while taking my daily three-and-three-quarter mile walk, I was at a corner waiting for the walk light to turn green. Three young men in their early twenties were at the same corner, and one of them asked me a question in that way that was clearly meant to make me uncomfortable: “Are you a dude or a woman?”

Obviously, at that moment in time their were enough visual clues for him to cause him wonder about which sex I am, and he was rude enough to ask me what he thought would be for me a humiliating question.

She said this. I didn’t. I would not have made any assertion about her blendability if she hadn’t said said it here.

I do believe that many people are motivated to activism because of their experiences. For example. breast cancer survivors champion cancer cure groups, or victims of violent crime becoming victim advocates. One can come up with many, many examples of people who, by having a negative experience, strive to help others to deal with the same negative experience. Is Autumn any different then this? I don’t know.

However, it is NOT unreasonable to make the connection between her own stated negative experiences and her desire to mitigate negative experiences for other trans people. Her opening paragraph to that post was almost to the point about that.

Autumn.

There is no ad hominum argument at all in my post.

Your thesis is that 24/7 trans people need to take a more activist role in society, and that by leaving it up to others, we do a disservice to the community and our own advancement.

My argument was that there are many ways to support the cause without being an out and proud advocate, and I demonstrated those ways.

Continuing on, I hypothesized that your perspective was drawn from your own experience as someone who has been the subject of harassment (as reported here by you). In other words, “how ya see things depends on where yer standin” My perspective is one that has not been colored by that experience. If you mistook my comment as a personal attack, then I’m sorry. Your opinion of activism has been shaped by your experience, and mine, by mine.

You are free to consider other civil rights leaders’ writings as a source for inspiration. I would, however, take exception to paraphrasing someone’s writings and inserting your own words to make a point. In my opinion, they aren’t equivocal statements.

It’s possible to achieve “passing” privilege, and to live a live where one is invisibly blended into society, but a life built upon those things leaves a pretty shallow legacy. In the end, I believe we will be judged by other standards.

One CAN have a very meaningful life living fully blended in. One CAN have a very meaningful legacy without being an activist. Many trans people have led extraordinary lives and leave extraordinary legacies without becoming trans activists. They just have other things more important in their lives. For example, I have a child with a genetic disorder called Cri Du Chat. Google it if you’re unfamiliar with it.

My activism, and my legacy will be focused on helping parents of children with this disorder. Is that shallow? Do you see what I mean about the definition of legacy being “yours and yours alone” Judging me and MY legacy based on YOUR standard of having to be out and proud, and focused on Trans issues is self centered and wrong. Castigating anyone on their view of their legacy based on your criteria is also judgemental.

I agree with you that trans people should do SOMETHING. Where we disagree is what that “something” actually is.

I’ve said enough. You’re welcome to have the last word.

Yes, she said that. But, Autumn takes a walk every day, yet this doesn’t happen to her every day. It happens to me rarely. Are you willing to admit it happens to you as well, on rare occasions? Out of 7 billion people on this planet, I’m willing to bet there are plenty who can notice things more than others. No one can remain stealth to everyone. No one.

Yes, she said that. But, Autumn takes a walk every day, yet this doesn’t happen to her every day. It happens to me rarely. Are you willing to admit it happens to you as well, on rare occasions? Out of 7 billion people on this planet, I’m willing to bet there are plenty who can notice things more than others. No one can remain stealth to everyone. No one.

Our conversation isn’t about me, or anyone elses’ blendability. Additionally, it also isn’t about the concept of blending in general. It would be considered off topic to discuss either.

It is, however, precisely about Autumn and her street harassment experience. She did not qualify it as an outlier event so it would be presumptuous of me to assume it was. My hypothesis was that her (being clocked) experience has helped shape her activist perspective and nothing more.

Yeah, I’m in full agreement here. Being trans is something I see as a part of me, but not something that defines my life. I don’t really want to live my life centered around only one aspect of myself.

I also think that measuring a trans person’s “legacy” solely by the amount of trans activism they do throughout their lifetime is extremely reductive, and sort of reifies trans people as an “other”. I mean, I want to help out other trans people, but there are also many other ways I want to contribute to society and things of that nature I want to accomplish in my life.

You are right. You have to have other things in your life. Autumn has many other things in her life that have nothing to do with be trans. I seen the plants she grows outside her old apartment. I couldn’t do that. That’s just one thing. However, all we see here on PHB is the activist Autumn. Too bad not many of you get to interact with the Autumn I’ve come know over they years. That’s the part that is not being shown here that often, and that can give people a false image of Autumn.

As an example of one of my outside activities, take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WociPdmr3uI I’m even in a club here in the Atlanta area.

Well by “living one’s life centered around being trans” I don’t mean “have no hobbies or activities outside of teh trans”. I know that Autumn, like most other people involve in rights activism, does things with her time outside of activism.

What I’m referring to is building a life centered around trans issues, especially in the sense of a career. Personally, I’m working on a PhD in a STEM field, and one day I hope to make a career out of, you know, fixing humanity’s problems and shit like that. And as much as I want to help trans people, I have a lot of other people I want to help as well, and to the extent that being trans acts as sort of an impediment to that goal is the extent to which I’ll remain stealth. Because A) as has already been mentioned, helping improve things for trans people is not limited to out-and-proud activism, so “out and helping” vs. “stealth and selfish” is a false dichotomy, and B) it would be far more helpful to my career to be known as “that gal with some pretty cool ideas on how to solve problems x, y, and z,” rather than “that tranny who happens to dabble in science, but must be some sort of porn star”. Or whatever other misconceptions about being trans the rest of humanity will project onto me.

The thing is, being “out and proud” is a one-way trip; i.e. you cannot go back to being stealth once you disclose your history. On the other hand, as long as I’m blending in, I can choose to “come out” whenever I want. And really, who’s to say that I would better serve The Community by living as out now, rather than rising to become CEO of some important company, improving conditions for LGBT people working for that company along the way, and then come out once I have a whole laundry list of important things I’ve accomplished (theoretically anyway) and demonstrate that trans people are more than the sum of our history? If we’re talking about a legacy for future generations of trans people, shouldn’t we be concerned about long term investments, rather than the short term goal of getting more bodies for the cause?

I dunno, seemed to work pretty well for Ellen.

I understand what you are talking about. I’ve been working for the same company for 22 years. A mortgage company is allowing me to live in their house. My partner, Darlene is defending her PhD dissertation in April or May. We don’t have careers as trans activists. Your last paragraph fits my life and my way of thinking 100% (except the CEO part.) So, I see us as being in agreement.

Okay, then it’s all good. I was just taking issue with the idea that somehow the best way to help trans people in the long run is for everyone to run out into the streets with a picket sign yelling whatever the trans equivalent of “we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it” is. I.e., rights activism can be multifaceted, and in fact there might be things one can accomplish with subtlety that direct, immediate action cannot.

I mean, you don’t win a game of chess by bum-rushing all of your pieces to the enemy’s side… different pieces must perform different roles and strike at different times in order to win.

And, keep in mind, we can’t do “Enron Activism,” where you hang all of your activism actions on one process. You need to spread them out to different ways. Some times, one person is good with just one form of action, while others will try different ways. Autumn does different forms of activism, as do I. If people don’t wish to do any, that is also fine. Simply put, if you are not comfortable with doing something, then you will not do it effectively. We all have our comfort zones. Stay in it.