It’s unfortunate that the legislature caved to the bigots and believed the lies spewing from their lips.

Hopefully next session this can get amended and the governor can push it through.

one more thing to be thankful for

That is definitely progress – yay!

Heavy.
I have a transgender friend who’s really been stigmatized all her life. Her older brother tried to drown her lie a rat when she was a kid and she couldn’t go to school because the other kids would have killed her. No lie
Now they’re trying to get rid of her at her work even tho she pulls in most of the clients. It’s pretty hard to watch.
I just try to support her all I can.
I just hope these laws can be enforce, like so many others are not being. It doesn’t matter if we have a law if it’s not enforced……..like free speech and freedom for assembly for example.

At first I was excited about this. Well, I’m still happy. But let me get this straight. If I move to Boston I can’t be denied renting an apartment because I’m a Transsexual and I can’t be not hired because I’m a Transsexual and I can’t be denied a credit card because I’m Transsexual and I can’t be kept from taking a Spanish class for adults at local community college because I”m Transsexual by law. But if go into a business, say a pizza restaurant, to spend my money I earned in my protected job and do it with my friends I made in my protected class after the class and with the credit card I got from my protected bank account before I go back home to my protected apartment the people in the pizza place can kick me out saying, “We don’t serve people like you.”

“Public accommodations” almost always means bathrooms. So they can be denied access to the facilities, even after the double meat pepperoni and the Bladderbuster soft drink.

As I understand it, there is case law in MA that would provide recourse for a trans person denied access to public accommodations. But of course there’s no substitute for protections being spelled out in the law, and everyone recognizes the need to do that. So to answer your question, “kinda but not really” I guess might be the answer.

WOW what a Concept We Are all Equal. What a long strange trip it’s been but the light at the end of the tunnel is growing dimmer in that we all get out Alive.

How Sad for us citizens on the little blue sphere hurling through space.

Off topic but this can’t be good.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/aircraft-carrier-cvn-77-parks-next-door-syria-just-us-urges-americans-leave-country-immediately

Last night about 6 pm I was walking across the campus and I came across a small group of people quietly standing around 17 candles or lights under what looked to be paper bags. I stopped. A woman was reading out names. It was 17 transgendered persons who had been murdered last year. I have close friends who are transgendered, one of them very famous, and both somewhat screwed up, as one might suppose given the deep conflict that the change creates and requires. Beautiful people.

OK. Let me get this straight(all puns intended) for I am straight. I’m also poor. To be transgender, you have to have enough money to pay for an operation, correct? Hey, if that’s not true, somebody say so.

And that would cost thousands of dollars out of pocket, correct? Again, someone correct me if I’m wrong.

So, if one can afford to shell out the money that I don’t have to even buy an automobile in order to transform one’s gender, I am supposed to wave the flag and say “hurrah!” that that one can no longer be discriminated against in hiring when my unemployed heterosexual wife over 40 is LUCKY to get a “FU” letter in response to her job application?

I don’t understand transgender people. I really don’t care about them, one way or the other. But when one out of three children in America are officially in poverty, I really don’t see why I should care all that much, either.

Here’s your chance, latte’ liberals, to enlighten this poor barbarian’s benighted soul.

Sounds like you came across a Transgender Day of Remembrance event, Knut.

You’re right. It takes a lot of money. Look, I’m not claiming these people are better than anyone else. I remember when my friend, whom I’d known for 30 to 35 years got herself changed. I was in Moscow when I got the news and I thought it was some kind of joke, but it was true. This person lost her family, not just her wife, but her children. She is a supremely talented, screwed up academic person. You wouldn’t want to be her. I certainly wouldn’t. I have another friend at work who did the same thing. At first they are extremely self-centered, maybe they always were. But the change is the big thing in their lives, and that’s what they talk about. We all talk about stuff that’s important to us. That’s their stuff.

You can’t force this into a class thing, except to the extent that poor persons suffering from the same conflict can’t change themselves the way people with money can. But you can say the same thing about medical care in general. Poor people don’t have the same access to it as rich people do.

These are two different planes. Speaking personally, it was extremely hard for me to come to terms with what my friend did. I would say it took several years. What surprises me and encourages me is that in the end you accept other people’s choices and you accept them for what they are. We are all different in different ways.

No OhioGringo, surgery isn’t required to be transgender. Here’s a definition from the American Psychological Association that may help you understand better: “Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression, or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice, or body characteristics”

I’m sorry about your wife’s difficulties in getting a job – there’s a lot of that going around lately. You should know that while the new law in MA prevents otherwise qualified trans people from being refused a job just because they’re trans, it doesn’t guarantee them a job any more than it guarantees your wife a job just because she’s a woman over 40 (“age” and “sex” being two other categories protected in the anti-discrimination law). What the law does is say that you can’t use a person’s sex, religion, gender identity, etc. as a reason to fire or not hire them. However, if they’re not the best qualified person for the job, you’re free to not hire them based on that.

To be transgender, you have to have enough money to pay for an operation, correct?

In a word, no. “Transgender” is a range of behaviors that aren’t gender “normal”, going from casual or fetish crossdressing all the way up to people identify with the opposite gender rather than their birth sex. In that case it is a neuroendocrilogical condition and just like any other ailment, or birth defect, it is not dependent on one’s income. One reason the suicide rate among transsexual people is so high is not only the very sort of discrimination this legislation is meant to address but also the fact that hormone therapy and surgery are EXPENSIVE and it’s never covered by insurance.

I don’t understand transgender people. I really don’t care about them, one way or the other.

You may now kiss my transgendered ass OhioGringo. I’ve got people standing in line to treat me like shit, I don’t need it from people I thought were friends. You admit your ignorance about the subject so fine but the whole comment reeks of some very disturbing prejudices on your part.

Yeah, over-react, and expand the definition of transgender altogether simultaneously at the same time. Then tell me to kiss your ass.

Dangerous. Foolish. High and mighty morally superior. Completely unnecessary.

You speak of fetishes. Well, I must admit, I’d never thought of that one. Though I have been known to wear a dress, or a kilt, or a toga, from time to time. Never thought it a fetish, though. I do have nice legs, or so the ladies tell me.

Now, in a perfect world, or even an imperfect one with true universal healthcare, perhaps we could explore the expensive “hormone therapy and surgery” necessary for transgender, what should I call it?-therapy? Personally, I have no problem with that.

But we do not live in a perfect world or even an imperfect one with true universal health care, do we? Sorry, but I have bigger fish to fry. Like my and my children’s standard of living.

Transgender issues, and other social issues, are just not that important for the now. All they are to me are distractions to divide the middle and working classes against themselves so the oligarchy can wallow in comfort and laugh at us all on our dime. And on our time.

Of which I have wasted too much already.

I am not your enemy, Margaret. But would you man the barricades with me and prove yourself to be my friend? Perhaps. Time will tell. You will have the chance.

Well, that’s honest. To paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart(what was his mother THINKING when she named him, anyhow?)–I don’t know the definition of honesty, but I know it when I see it, and that’s honesty.

Look, I’m not trying to force this into a class thing. It already IS. If you can’t afford to go transgender and want to do so, you CAN’T. Period. Game. Set. Match. I’m not making a moral point here, unless it is to say that if one can afford actual transgender surgery then one has some serious disposable dough at one’s fingertips. I don’t think that’s really moral. Just financial.

So, if you have the ability to go truly transgender by surgery, in my book, you are rich, and you just spent a whole hell of a lot of money on your personal whim that could have gone to my kid’s future, or have filled my street’s potholes, or replenished my library’s collections. All of which are just as important to me as your personal sexual feelings are to you.

I’m not saying this to be mean, or to troll. I’m saying this to make a point. What is important to a few of us is not at all important to most of us. If you want to persuade people to finance your wishes, you must do more than try to lay on a guilt trip. Please note that is different from civil rights or equal opportunity when it comes to jobs. For the sake of argument, let’s avoid “protected classes” for the moment.

That’s all. Think about it.

Whatever you believe, whether or not you think I’m overreacting”, what you’re writing isn’t factual and your opinion of what “transgender” means isn’t relevant to reality anymore than when George W Bush pretended he could “redefine” the properties of a gas, (CO2). I’ve spent the better part of 51 years trying to educate ignorant jackasses who refuse to believe that sex is between the legs and gender is between the ears. The problem in not imaginary as you seem to suggest merely by “accepting” the term “treatment” for transgendered individuals. How very magnanimous of you to accept the term. What next? Are you going to agree they are human beings, actual and true? I wonder what you would call corrective surgery for a cleft palate? And just my own opinion of course but I believe it’s always time for equal rights under the law. I wish there was a way you could stand in my shoes for a week. You wouldn’t last two days.

If you can’t afford to go transgender and want to do so, you CAN’T. Period. Game. Set. Match.

Ignorance and bigotry is almost always wrong and so it is again here. You, sir, are full of SHIT! The most money I have ever made in a year is $39,250 and it’s much more often been below $30,000. You call that rich? The money is irrelevant and unrelated to the condition. The only time money becomes salient is when a transgendered person seeks treatment. Or are you going to pull out the old myth that this is about a “lifestyle”? How very conservative of you! I had so much respect for you and you just blew it all in the space of one sparsely attended thread. Well done.

So, to start this off:

Transgender issues, and other social issues, are just not that important for the now. All they are to me are distractions to divide the middle and working classes against themselves so the oligarchy can wallow in comfort and laugh at us all on our dime. And on our time.

I’m not sure how transgender issues divide the middle and working class, when there are trans people of all classes.

So, if one can afford to shell out the money that I don’t have to even buy an automobile in order to transform one’s gender, I am supposed to wave the flag and say “hurrah!” that that one can no longer be discriminated against in hiring when my unemployed heterosexual wife over 40 is LUCKY to get a “FU” letter in response to her job application?

No where in this was it asked for you to pay for their surgery. Surgery is something we save up for, like you, and buy instead of a house, or a car. Because you can hide from and ignore a house and a car. You can’t do that with your body. It has profound psychological benefits, and you’d see that had you even looked at all.

Now, as to why we shouldn’t be discriminated against in hiring, well, no one should. Your wife isn’t, not any more than we are supposed to be. They aren’t making it so that we’re just handed jobs over here. I do like how you put her above us though, saying she is somehow more worthy of being equal than we are. Nice touch there. While your wife is lucky to get an “FU” letter, as you put it, many of us are lucky if we leave without being told how disgusting we are, or how much of an abomination we are, or even being spat on.

I’m not sure why you keep thinking surgery is required for trans people; quite a few of us opt not to have it, or don’t for monitary reasons as previously stated. But my hormones cost ~7$ total per month on the walmart generics plan. So, if I skip three breakfasts a month, I would have paid for them with no net-loss.

You don’t ‘go transgender’ either. its just there, and if you’re transsexual, or just someone on another part of the spectrum who needs hormones, they have pretty fast and definite mental changes before the physical ones happen, even if it does mean physical changes happen. And speaking of physical changes, on the trans feminine side, those breasts? They’re generally natural. No silicone for me, thanks.

The problem with it costing 20k-30kUSD for surgery is that those that need it to feel ok with their bodies often can’t get it. But that doesn’t make them any less, and that does not mean they are not using hormones and presenting as the gender they are.

This isn’t a class thing. Many of us are un- or underemployed. We have pretty fucking high unemployment, mostly because of bigotry and ignorance. Many have to resort to sex work.

And the fact that you keep saying that it involves ‘my personal sexual feelings’. Its not sexual. Nice try.

So, if you have the ability to go truly transgender by surgery, in my book, you are rich, and you just spent a whole hell of a lot of money on your personal whim that could have gone to my kid’s future, or have filled my street’s potholes, or replenished my library’s collections. All of which are just as important to me as your personal sexual feelings are to you.

there is no ‘truly going transgender’. You are or you aren’t, its not a choice, its not a step. When someone transitions, sure, that is a step, but its not so much a choice as the less-bad option when it comes to living. And, that shit that could have gone to your kids future? Yeah, I was, and am, someone’s kid. And this is my future. And there is plenty of medical evidence out there that it actually works quite well, and that, in terms of giving back to society, its a pretty big change in most of us compared to how utterly depressed we were before.

And through all of this, you somehow seem to think we’re asking you to fund surgery.

I’m not saying this to be mean, or to troll. I’m saying this to make a point. What is important to a few of us is not at all important to most of us. If you want to persuade people to finance your wishes, you must do more than try to lay on a guilt trip. Please note that is different from civil rights or equal opportunity when it comes to jobs. For the sake of argument, let’s avoid “protected classes” for the moment.

You aren’t saying it to troll. You’re saying it because you’re either very, very ignorant, or very, very blind to what people here have been telling you, or even a cursory look at pretty much anything on the subject would say.

Why is it important to the few of us? Because, especially with the intersection of other marginalized groups within ours, we are one of the most marginalized minorities, as a whole. Our murder rates are some of, if not the highest in the nation. Our attempted suicide rate? 41% of those surveyed. That is underreported, as all suicide statistics. The number of people who seriously thought about attempting suicide at one time or another? Over 80%. “Injustice at Every Turn” covers this and the unemployment stuff. Don’t forget the harassment from people like you.

One last thing:

But we do not live in a perfect world or even an imperfect one with true universal health care, do we? Sorry, but I have bigger fish to fry. Like my and my children’s standard of living.

Universal healthcare is a standard of living thing. And if you don’t feel like improving the standard of living for those below you economically through it, because it would sacrifice your standard of living, you have no ground to stand on. So, congrats. No one, likely, will actually read this thread, but I’m sure someone will benefit from this. Or maybe you will get it through your thick skull that you are not the only thing important here, as much as you seem to keep claiming that we are not important. You keep talking about yourself through much of this, and the health of your children, while saying the health of a group of people who are highly marginalized is irrelivant. You are disgusting.
Good day, sir.

Unsure if it is possible to edit posts, couldn’t figure it out. Anyway, I was unclear re: universal healthcare. What I meant is, it helps the people above and below you, but the people below you are the ones who need it the most. As for it funding surgery, not even normal healthcare does most of the time, so I highly doubt universal healthcare would.

OhioGringo asks to be educated and when we, the people who are actually in a position to know, try to educate him as he requested, we are accused of overreacting and even more ludicrously, being wrong. That’s like a high school physics student asking Brian Greene about string theory and then telling him that he’s wrong. He has nothing to base that opinion on but stubbornly insists that the person who does have something to base it on can’t be correct. When one asks a question and then doesn’t like the answer so s/he insists that the experts are wrong, that’s called trolling, despite assertions to the contrary.
Shorter OhioGringo: “My family and I are much more important that every transgendered person in the United States combined so why are we talking about THEM when my wife can’t find a job?”
Worried about your kids’ lifestyle? I’m worried about saving actual LIVES.

Well, since he keeps mentioning things about his kids’ lifestyle, maybe he’s afraid of them getting surgery and somehow instantly becoming transgender. He keeps saying how its a lifestyle and implying that its some sort of choice (Surgery or not, to become trans).

You are more properly speaking of transsexual people. I will attempt to educate you. Transsexualism is NOT a choice. It is a congenital birth condition in which a person is born with a brain-body mismatch. This leads to a life of incredible pain and misery until they can correct things. When a person transitions (aka “sex change”) they are correcting the mismatch they were born with. You can read more about gender identity and transsexualism in this “Gender Basics” section:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html#anchor107763

Like other people born with birth conditions we have the right to correct ours. And just so you know the American Medical Association and the US federal government recognize transsexualism as a medical condition and the fact that transition is medically necessary treatment. Further, as of 2 years ago our medical treatment is also tax deductible because we beat the IRS in court.

Ask yourself: If the AMA and the federal government recognize this medical condition why can’t I?

The answer will say a lot about you.

The vast majority of Trans people are so poor that they never get surgery. Over 60% of all Trans people are unemployed and some consider them unemployable because they are Trans. Those who do gain employment and come out as Trans typically lose the job their in. Even if they own or co-own a bussiness it often becomes an issue. This law will really only protect those few who are Trans and are employed. Those who are obviously Trans will most likely still have issues finding jobs. Of those who are Trans and retain employment are often like me. I have a resume that’s well over 30 pages and can do my job, my coworkers job, my bosses job and the jobs of many others. We ate the kind of people who are either ‘under’ employed or just vastly more capable at their job to prevent a good boss from firing us.

What a heartbreaking and invaluable thread!

Thanks, Margaret and everyone else who weighed in with vitally-needed information, both personal and scientific.

Before I wrote my comment I researched “public accommodations.” It does not just mean public bathrooms. It means private businesses that serve (accommodate) the public according to what I found.

What she said, as far as I can tell, is that those businesses will often serve you, but will not let you use the correct bathroom in their establishment.

http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2011/11/congratulations-massachusetts.html

if you want to see a clearer view. And yes, it does seem to allow this to happen in *public buildings*, along with private.

The measure, however, does not include protections for public accommodations, such as hotels and restaurants, restrooms, locker rooms, public buildings and transit, including subway and bus lines. That omission bothers a lead sponsor of the bill, Representative Carl M. Sciortino, Jr. (D-Medford)