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Last week when I watched videos of the prayer breakfast that Equality Maryland sponsored for pro-equality faith leaders, I realized that although it’s probably happened before, it was the first time the I’d seen clergy making public statements in support of gender identity and expression anti-discrimination legislation. I wanted to hear more from these folks about what motivates their allyship so I invited several to share their thoughts with us. Below are my conversations with just a small subset of Maryland’s faith leaders who are allies of the trans community: Rabbi Sarah Meytin (Reform Judaism), Rev. Lisa Ward (Unitarian Universalist), Dr. Dana Beyer (Orthodox Judaism) and Rev. Jill McCrory (Baptist).
These four represent a wide variety of faith traditions and life experiences yet easily find common ground on the issue of equality and dignity for trans folk. Seeing such different paths lead to the same place is a great reminder that equality and dignity for all people are universal concepts.
Note on the current bill: It should be clear from the responses of these faith leaders that their dedication to justice for trans people runs much deeper than any particular bill. They’re in it for the duration. I think it would be a mistake to transfer anger about the content of the current bill onto allies who have stepped forward in good faith to lend their support.
Rabbi Sarah Meytin is a lesbian ally of transfolk who lives in Montgomery County.
Tell me about your observations as a preschool teacher.
It’s so powerful as a preschool teacher to see how important this legislation is. I see these little boys in particular who go through this phase of loving to dress up and be pretty. Then they start getting shut down by the girls in the class who say dresses are only for girls, pink is only for girls. And of course they get those messages from outside also, like at the store “oh no, that’s the girl’s section, come over here to the ugly boys clothes.”
Most boys start moving away from it around the age of four or so. But for the boys who don’t, or for the ones who really strongly identify with pretty and girly things — pink is their favorite color, they really like fairies, they want to dress in pretty tutus — it’s really challenging. To know that these kids are going into a world where someone’s going to say it’s not o.k. for you to be who you are, and more than that I’m going to make your life a living hell because I don’t “get it”? Heart wrenching. These are innocent little kids who want to wear a pink dress, and so what? It kills me.
It’s not to say that all the little boys who like pink and frilly dresses are trans. But for those who will be, it’s heart wrenching to think that the world is going to tell them that they can’t be who they are. To be constantly told from the age of 2 or 3 that you’re not normal, there’s something that’s different or off or wrong about you, gets internalized.
Why would we do that to another human being? Why would we create that depression, that self-hatred, that fear, that anger that gets internalized because we have a problem with the fact that a little boy likes a dress, regardless of their gender identity?
In what way is your advocacy for justice for transgender people informed by your religious beliefs?
I feel very strongly that Judaism looks first and foremost at the dignity of every individual. These laws and protections have everything to do with guaranteeing the dignity of other human beings in our community. My entire career has been working at the intersection of Judaism and social justice. For me both marriage equality and gender identity anti-discrimination work are justice issues.
I believe that God loves all of God’s children, and God wants us to try to find a way to create the most just and loving world we can. And God cries when we do things that deny the dignity or worth of a fellow human being.
Rev. Lisa Ward is a straight ally of transfolk living in Harford County.
What moved you to support the gender identity bill?
Injustice for anyone is injustice for all of us. It’s very important to treat each person equally, especially in the eyes of the law. Any kind of discrimination that impedes a person’s ability to live a full life is something we need to address and stop.
You testified last year for the gender identity anti-discrimination bill. What was that like?
It’s very exciting. For gender identity, it’s a concept that not everyone is ready to fully address and is confusing for a lot of people. If people have discomfort around gay, lesbian or bisexual issues, transgender is really sort of the cutting edge.
If people are having a hard time wrapping their heads around it I think it’s because we are trained in binary thinking: male/female, good/bad. This is opening up the spectrum of identity that can shake people’s foundations. So when you’re testifying in front of the legislature, I feel…I don’t feel discouraged because I know we’re going to keep talking about it until it gets done. But I do feel that it has further to go than say marriage equality, for example.
We have further to go in getting people to understand what gender identity is?
Yes, although I think that most people don’t want discrimination. I think if you concentrate on anti-discrimination, then that can be understood. Getting to a point of tolerance is possible through anti-discrimination, but when we want to get deeper into acceptance and understanding and dwelling with one another and not judging, that has a ways to go I think.
What’s your experience been speaking with your legislators on this issue?
A few years ago Human Rights Campaign had a whole conference on gender identity anti-discrimination, and we went to see one of our Delegates from the county. I was surprised by her lack of knowledge of the issue, that she didn’t think there was any discrimination for transgender people! It just wasn’t on her radar screen.
That’s one thing that happens in more rural areas like where I serve. You can’t see difference although there are transgender folk out here, but there’s less intimate knowledge of in some ways, and transgender definitely. So it was like starting from “A” with that Delegate. It really surprised me when she said there was no discrimination. At least we got it on her radar.
Delegates try and vote for their constituency and they care about their constituents, but they also care about keeping their jobs. They care more about majority opinions often even though they try not to. So for something like this, when you’re coming in with a minority opinion it’s difficult to get them behind it.
You know for this issue I have really grown a lot and learned a lot. Even though I’ve been an advocate for a long time in general for LGBT, in terms of transgender it’s new for me. I’d say its several years new. I can still remember some of the eye-opening things. I never felt like I was prejudiced, but I definitely had stereotypes.
What provided the breakthrough for you?
Having a transgender congregant, then forming a friendship with someone I’d asked to come up and talk about transgender issues. She’s a very good spokesperson, Ann Arno. We did a dialog sermon together, and that really opened eyes.
As you said allies need to do this work because it’s so exhausting to be transgender and than have to fight for your own rights. That can be very exhausting.
The best thing is for people to meet transgender folk and see that indeed they are human beings. I think transgender folk are a gift to our awareness of being, a gift to our understanding more deeply the spectrum of being and to help us break out of our binary.
Any parting thoughts?
Even if the anti-discrimination bill gets passed — and again more people are against discrimination so it could pass — I wouldn’t say we’re out in the clear. There needs to be a lot more cultural work to really authentically welcome transgender folk.
Dr. Dana Beyer is a transsexual woman living in Montgomery County. Although Dana isn’t clergy she knows the Torah well, most of it by heart having read it in synagogue for 50 years. She offers valuable first-hand experience and scholarship to illuminate the intersection of Orthodox Judaism and gender identity.
Is Orthodox Judaism trans-friendly?
The Jewish community with the exception of a good portion of the Orthodox is very supportive of equality. The interesting thing though is that the Orthodox community is not very accepting of homosexuality, but they are much more accepting of transsexualism. I knew this back in the 1970s when Israel’s leading bioethecist who was a rabbi by the name of Waldenberg came out with his responsum, which is the way Jewish law is promulgated, and stated that he wouldn’t proactively come out and say that gender reassignment surgery is a good thing to do but if it’s been done than welcome to the community, and you’re a woman.
It’s hard to argue with him because he was the expert. He was the sage. We don’t have a pope, so anybody can claim that their own rabbi is their local wise man per se (or woman now but in the Orthodox community it’s wise man), but this guy was the leading community bioethecist. He lived in Israel and he said this so it was sort of like, ok he told me when I was a kid that you’re not as perverted as you thought you were. That made a huge difference in my life and it’s something I use when I speak to Jews and say that before the Reformed, before the Reconstructionists, before the Conservatives even began to deal with this issue, Rabbi Waldenberg came out using Orthodox legal logic and said it’s ok to be trans.
That makes a huge difference, and so when I transitioned my rabbi didn’t give me any problems at all. I just said well here are the texts and he said that’s fine. It’s very important that the rabbi is not going to get up there and start thundering “and a man shall not lie with a man…”. You know it doesn’t even say that actually in Leviticus.
What about others in the congregation? Were there any problems?
People on a religious basis, no not at all. Only on a personal basis. Some people were squeamish and other people were standoffish and others embraced me. You know what it’s like, it’s any group of folks they have different experiences.
By now it’s been 8 years. There’s not a person that has a problem at all. Some of the men had a hard time hugging me at the beginning, kissing me at the beginning. Well after 6 months that was all past.
I transitioned in place, so they new me before. I was a value to the community and they knew I would be afterwords. Which I tell people is really the best way to go about it. It’s ironic that in the past the way to deal with it was to leave town, leave your family, revise your history, go stealth and start all over. But when you do that, you don’t have value to that community. You have to prove yourself to a new community.
If you do it in place, people know you. If they like you before you transition, the odds are they’re going to like you better afterwords. Because they know who you are, they know what you do. Then your identity isn’t as important. It’s like family – we know who this person is but are they going to be different or are they the same person? And once it’s all done they go, well you know you’re really different, but you’re still the same. Except you’re not angry any more, you don’t have the cloud over you any more.
And so they get it, but they don’t know that they’re going to get it because they haven’t experienced it before. That’s the problem with Americans, they don’t know many trans people.
Are Rabbi Waldenberg’s views still respected by Orthodox Jews today?
Yes. Obviously Jewish history goes back a long way. The Greeks knew a lot about intersex. And then the Jews who lived alongside the Greeks during the Hellenistic era learned a lot of the Greek science about it and then promulgated that in the Talmud. The rabbis spoke about not only animal intersex but they certainly knew about human intersex. There are a bunch of categories of human intersex individuals and the rabbis recognize it. They weren’t afraid to talk about it.
But back in the 19th century in Germany, those pages were removed from the Talmud in those printed editions. Because that’s when the Germans pathologized sexuality. They did it for trans people and they did it for homosexuals. So that was removed because the Jews who were doing that were part of the era where sexuality was something we’re not going to talk about.
It’s only been recently that it’s been put back. So generations were raised without even knowing this stuff existed. And now we know that 2,000 years ago our sages were aware of this stuff. And they were pretty liberal about it too. They understood that human beings are made this way and that it wasn’t that God made an error and you need to be condemned and thrown out of the community.
Sometimes our ancestors were a lot smarter than we are today, and sometimes not. But you go through these cycles and you can’t simply accept what is as if its always been that way. Often you’ve got to be willing to dig.
Rev. Jill McCrory is a straight ally of trans folk living in Montgomery County. She just became the Chair of the Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists.
How does your faith inform your support for gender identity anti-discrimination legislation?
Although it certainly is about civil rights, I tend not to describe it that way in that I really think it’s about supporting all people. When we come over to the theological or the religious side of that conversation, for Christians — and I’m of the Baptist tradition — we’ve been taught to include all and that Christ sat at the table with all and welcomed all. So I really look at it as the inclusion of everyone and the fighting for people’s rights as people is not contrary to the gospel.
Jesus taught that we were to welcome all. Jesus didn’t set parameters as far as, gosh really anything. In fact He spoke in the opposite direction of if you’re too affluent and you’re too proud and you’re too pompous then you’re going off on the wrong track. If you’re being exclusive then you’re on the wrong track.
Now, did he speak about sexuality? No. But did he speak against any kind of sexuality? No. So I think the bigger picture is, what happens when we create a separate people or a separate group or a marginalized group? That could be around poverty, it could be around culture or race — it can be about anything when we separate a particular group of people out and say “you are not equal and not like the rest of us”.
So in whether we’re talking about marriage or inclusion in the church or employment practices, how can we we support separating a certain people out?
What’s been your experience speaking with your legislators on equality bills or working with others in your district to do the same?
I’m blessed to live in a very supportive district so my legislators aren’t an issue. At least on the Delegate’s side. But do I have an opportunity to talk to the opposition? Absolutely. I’ve testified before the Maryland House of Delegates and my experience with the legislature is that we have to put a personal face on this. We’re not talking about something that doesn’t affect actual people.
I think what we saw last week (at the first lobby day) when legislators were able to see families, parents and their children and grandchildren who said “we are people and what you’re doing is making decisions about our lives.” And I don’t know what the legislators expected to see, but this was a group of normal people! I mean really.
I’m wondering if it’s easier for gay people than transgender people to do that in every district because there seem to be more gay than transgender people.
I can’t speak for the transgender community because I’m not trensgender, so I don’t know. What you need to know about me is that I’m a straight ally. And just like the straight allies really need to speak out for the LGBT community, I think our gay and lesbian community needs to speak out for the transgender community as well. So we have to speak for one another until everyone is comfortable speaking.
This is the same thing that happened in D.C. when the marriage issue came up. There were clergy there that had worked together before on issues of poverty, so they had come together for each other in a different way. And then when the clergy reached out and said we need you now for this issue which is important to us, and the clergy where that wasn’t on their radar said since you helped us with poverty, we need to help you with this. And I think it’s the same thing with whether you’re gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, straight ally, queer, questioning — whatever the letter is — we have to step into that space and help each other.
There may be a day when I need my LGBT brothers and sisters to come to my aid as a straight ally. And certainly in this environment I need that backing when I step out into that conservative Christian environment. Especially the Baptists. When I have to stand up to my fellow Baptists and say “there’s a different story here that you’re not hearing”. So we need each other.
How can LGBT people support you and other clergy stepping forward and taking heat for us?
It’s being willing to be there when that need is there. If I see a need in the community I’ll step up. If you see a need you step up. It may be that we’re both stepping up together for the transgender community, it may be that straight allies and transgender folk are stepping up — it’s the willingness that needs to be there.
Tell us a little bit about your experience being an ally in the Baptist church.
Seven years ago I thought I was the only Baptist that thought this way. I was in a Southern Baptist church, I was in seminary and I thought I was the only Baptist that had a liberal viewpoint on LGBT.
I was raised in the Southern Baptist church and I felt called to seminary but I’ve always been a part of the gay community. Not only that but I when I said I was called to preach they said I was mistaken because I was a woman.
So I started doing pulpit supply for a Metropolitan Community Church and couldn’t tell them. So I was closeted as a straight person, which I think was God showing me just a little bit, a little tiny taste because I don’t purport to know what it’s like to be closeted. But a little tiny taste of what it feels like to not be able to tell your church the truth.
So I would say “I’m preaching for a little non-denomination church up near Germantown”. ”Well what church?” ”Ah, it’s not important.” It was very important! This was where I learned to preach.
I didn’t know if I was safe. I didn’t know there was anybody else like me. Then I met the Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists, realized the we had several Baptist churches in the area that were welcoming and affirming, got involved and realized that there are all sorts of Baptists like me.
Ten years later I was ordained in the American Baptist church. The pastor of that Southern Baptist church who had told me that I was going to have to choose between ministry and those people when I told him I was not only called to preach but I was called to the LGBT community — he gave the invocation at my ordination. I had 10 officiating clergy at my ordination, and they were Baptist, Disciples of Christ, MCC, they were African-Americans, they were white – I had this cornucopia of people. And he said to me, I cannot in good conscience judge these people, having seen all these clergy who are obviously Christian. We change people’s minds maybe slowly — it took 10 years — through our actions and the kinds of things that we’re doing.
So yeah I was in a Southern Baptist church and couldn’t tell anybody what was going on, couldn’t tell them I was over at this MCC church, and it was years before I told people in that congregation “what you need to understand is I have this ministry”. Some people said oh my gosh I’ll pray for you, and some people said well, o.k.. We change one mind at a time.






37 Comments


Do they know that the current bill i fatally flawed?it is entirely possible that they hve been sold a bill of goods. So I would not blame any of them, particularly since they probably do notr ealize that this year’s bill is flawed.
I imagine they would be just as outraged as anyone else about the deception.
This is toughFirst – I’m so glad that these people are taking a stand for trans people based on their faith traditions. It’s heartening to see 3 cis people advocating for trans people so openly.
Still… it would be nice to see a discussion about trans legislation without talk about marriage equality – any trans legislation, much less this one.
marriage talkI think there was so much mention of the marriage bill and of LGB people because 1) these folks had just spoken up for both bills, so both issues were on their minds, 2) the marriage bill has been slated since day 1 to be debated first and has had much more publicity/generated more general public interest, and 3) sometimes people’s awakening to diversity comes through meeting LGB people first, not T people. When this is the case, someone may express their understanding of related issues through the lens of sexual orientation because that is their frame of reference.
I have found in various discussions with other cis allies that they simply are not well informed on the status of trans issues even when they are philosophically amendable. The reason seems to be that they simply don’t know any trans people and that nobody is presenting them with the need to think about these things.
I don’t think the controversyhas come to the attention of many people who won’t be directly affected by the bill. That’s my impression anyways.
I speak about both marriage and GENDA in New YorkI think it’s hard to talk about full trans equality without including marriage in the mix. We often get discriminated against regardless of who we marry or want to marry.
In addition, there are issues specific to parts of the trans community relating to birth certificates and official documentation that also deserve an airing, even if they are not in any of the current bills.
I do understand your point – when do we get to stand in the sun and get attention independently?
“Note on the current bill: It should be clear from the responses of these faith leaders that their dedication to justice for trans people runs much deeper than any particular bill.”
While the dislcaimer is appreciated, given that Morgan Meneses-Sheets’ primary marketing tool for the public accommdations-free bill has flown the coop it would be nice to know which (if any) of the people bing presented in this big splash are not “in it for the duration” as to the current orthodoxy of the public accommodations-free bill.
Why it’s hardI figured what you said was true, which is why it was hard to have mixed feelings about an otherwise positive interview. It’s also hard (for me?) to say “that was good, this would have been better” without fearing that I sound like I’m complaining or don’t acknowledge that people are being supportive.
Tacit support does not equate to support of HB235It is quite disingenuous of me to suggest that their lack of discussion on HB235 equates to their lack of support to anyone piece of legislation.
Likewise, it is equally disingenuous to infer the opposite, that someone’s deep support of gender identity and in particular, their support of anti-discrimination protections somehow means they DO support the current course of legislation.
I’m sure Dr Beyer’s very public statements of recent and her past affiliations speak to her personal commitment to gender identity protections, however, to frame that in such a light to imply she supports HB235, which, regardless of your disclaimer, is the potential result of this piece, is regrettable.
Yet, I am very grateful for the discussion as it shows something that I, as a Christian, with a deep faith that Christ is Lord, and as such my personal Savior, do not question. People of true Faith believe in acceptance, and love of ALL of God’s children. There is nothing inconsistent with these four’s views on that point. We as a community need to stop attacking persons of Faith, and embrace them as the true allies they are…
Not a Sermon, just a thought.. (is that copyrighted?)
No worries rioTgirl!You balanced your comment well, and I thank you for that.
A little off topic but related towhat Jenna Elizabeth posted.
I personally know a lot of LGB’s who are religious but that may have more to do with my circles than anything.
Religious LGBs are people who you see in the LGBT blogosphere but not all that much.
However, I have noted from time to time that quite a few trans folk are religious…am I perceiving that correctly?
My transition/coming out was spititualKevin,
My journey was by all means spiritual which lead to my Faith. I had to first give myself permission to be, then permission to be myself , something others were denying me. That’s a common feeling in out Alphabet soup. At some point in our lives we lived under others conceptions of who we are. The journey for equality and acceptance, and thereby the need for anti-discrimination protections is about creating the public environment for us FIRST to be, then to truly be ourselves.
Many transgender people feel a “rebirth” and use words like “their true self” early in transition and in my humble opinion are describing a spiritual, an incorporeal transformation from others conceptions of themselves to the real person they are. This is an amazing process we go through. I for one am grateful for having it.
Wherever politics tries to do the work of God, it becomes, not divine, but demonic.I don’t know how many transfolk are religious kevinchi, but I am. I am a devout Roman Catholic. I would say closer to Joan of Arc or Daniel Berrigan than Joe Ratzinger.
I once had a young transwoman staying at my house and she was a born again Christian. I went to bible studies with her. And we had a Catholic Monsignor stay overnight while we discussed theology.
As a devout Catholic I am obligated to love my neighbor. In so doing I light a blessed candle for my opponents and offer a novena for them. I pray that they may be spared the fires of hell and that God shall offer them time in purgatory until such time that they have repented of supporting HB235 without public accomodations.
I know this sounds a little harsh. One would hope they would repent in this life. But the methods available to Tomás de Torquemada have been forbidden by more recent inquisitors.
Consider this caveat from Truth and Tolerance written by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger before his promotion to Pope:
“Wherever politics tries to be redemptive, it is promising too much. Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes, not divine, but demonic.”
Out of line
So just to be clear. My differing view is sufficient for me to be going to Hell but for the grace of God I might be able to redeem myself in Purgatory or if lucky could be tortured to change my views in this life. Remarkable. If this was in jest it is not readily apparent. I indeed take offense. And quite frankly who decided that you should have the role of Grand Inquisitor? I must have missed the election, or perhaps the appointment by the Holy See.
There are many, including those in your faith, that would make the same assertion about you being trans. I’ll not join their ranks. I am always amazed at how certain people of faith allow what they believe to relieve them of the of the burden of considering the consequences of judging others.
Try John 8:7, I am sure you know where to find it…
To say you are out of line is an understatement. At least now we can see the cloth you are made of. Thank you for the exposure and clarity.
There may be a correlation, but I can only speak for meMy itinerant blog
http://www.trans-cendence.blog…
deals mostly with religion and politics (I spend more time commenting here, and over at JMG, than I do blogging on my own site – perhaps because my blog only draws about 25-50 people a week even at best).
Let’s see. I spent three formative years in a Roman Catholic Seminary (and after being thrown out of the church, have analyzed my theology to the point where I am a very spiritually happy U/U) and on the worship committee at my church. I believe Allyson Robinson is an ordained minister. A good friend, Patti Smith, has been ordained as a Catholic priest (in a group not associated with Rome since 1947, but with the “apostolic succession” intact). I know another local trans woman who is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ. I have another friend, now in Boston, who went from Catholic, to Wiccan, and is now working at Reform Judaism. I have another who is associated with a spiritual retreat center in the Carolinas. I know of others, as well, who are deeply innvolved with organized religion, and even ordained.
On the other hand, there are many trans people who are atheist and agnostic, or are “spiritual” but not associated with any organized religion.
Like the authors of the National Transgender Discrimiation Survey “Injustice at Every Turn” recently released at Creating Change, I wish some attention would be paid in a study of trans folks as to our religious beliefs, affiliations, practices, etc. and how these may have helped or hindered our transitions or lives.
From the report at page 202:
I don’t have the professional creds to do such a study but I would bvery much interested in the results, myself.
Who knows, there may well be a natural inclination in this direction that is associated with being trans. In some cultures, trans people have gravitated toward religious and healing professions,to the extent that it is possible to think that there could be something related to ontological development that has a relationship to these sorts of vocational directions.
I am not so sure it is so terribly bad . . .. . . to be trans and Roman Catholic.
I was asked to leave the church because my transition was seen as “creating a scandal in the church.” This was the same reason given in another parish, to a gay couple who had been in the choir, but who had not only gotten married in Canada, but had received some media attention – they also got the “creating a scandal in the church” treatment as they were ushered out the door.
The RCC Magisterium claims that it is the source of all Truth, and that other religious faiths only have a part of the Truth. (These days, I am into a “many paths, but not all paths” POV – and the RCC is not one of the paths, at least, not for those who strictly adhere to the erroneous moral teachings of the Magisterium).
@brackett27, I think you may be overreacting to @Dana’s post.
The Magisterium’s teachings about trans people are apparently contained in a “sub secretum” document originally distributed to papal nuncios in 2000,and released to bishops in 2003. An Australian bishop leaked the document to Catholic News Service in February 2003. I have not seen the actual text, but only the CNS report. It is, however, sad. Apparently, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith leaned very heavily on bad medical science provided by Paul McHugh (a doctor with a specialty in eating disorders who at the time was the head of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins), and possibly written up by Urbano Navarrete (who is now a cardinal, and seems to be best known for the ruling against gender-neutral trinity references in baptism).
According to the report, trans people are allowed to be Catholic, but neither trans men nor trans women can be ordained to the priesthood, nor are we permitted to the religious life, bot even “third order” religious. Our gender is recognized only in strict accordance with the shape of our birth genitals (a position taken also by Catholics Mary Daly and Janice Raymond in propounding their noxious theories about trans people). Surgery is approvable only in the “most extreme” cases, and they see it as palliative only.
Even if they had not thrown me out in 1999, I think that I might eventually have had to realize that there was only so much I could do with a “cafeteria” attitude and an alternative theological explanation for each issue that needed patching. The Church’s teachings on women, on gays, and even on masturbation, are disturbingly wrong, and the scriptural sources for the teachings have to be twisted in their meanings to support their positions.
That isn’t to say that trans people can’t be Catholic; but it just takes a great deal to ignore the hostile and erroneous teachings.
I tend myself to batter at the Christianists with Matthew 25 – they will be numbered among the goats for what they do. So the idea of a temporary purgatory is perhaps somewhat ameliatory compared to eternity in the lake of fire. Considering that it’s only a warning of what could happen to them if they do not repent and do good instead of evil, I doubt that is the equivalent of “casting the first stone.”
It is one thing to stone someone to death, and quite another to warn them of the potential for eternal punishment if they do not change their ways. The former is truly judgmental, while the latter may ring of judgment but rather is a kind of prophetic vision.
Fac me cocleario vomere! Your differing view has nothing to do with it. I was speaking of those who have the political power as well as the will to deny me equal justice under the law. I said I pray for “my opponents.” I do not consider people who merely hold differing views to be my opponents. Perhaps I will have time for that when I join the Sisters of Mercy.
My dear bracket27 I’m sorry my jest it is not readily apparent. Perhaps my reference to Torquemada was too oblique. I should have specified that I was referencing the Monty Python version. Please keep in mind that the role of Grand Inquisitor is not an elected office, it is by appointment only. It is at the will of the Pontiff. You need to read the fine print in Canon Law:
It is not true, as you say, that there are those in my faith that would assert that my being trans is a transgression of some sort. There is not a single word about gender identity in the entirety of Catholic doctrine. On the other hand there is a great deal to be said about social justice.
John Paul II, a friend of the oppressed said that the fundamental truths are:
These is not the mere rambling of a well known priest but rather flow from the very heart of Catholic doctrine as it is embodied in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) which states:
So by denying equal justice under the law, as this bill does in its current form, it undermines the moral legitimacy of the state. It is my duty to pray for those who would perpetrate such injustices and I will continue to do so.
I think you misunderstood what Christ meant in your reference to John 8:7. He was telling the crowd not to stone the prostitute to death. He was not saying not to recognize a whore as a whore or not to pray for her poor soul.
Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
Fac me cocleario vomere! Your differing view has nothing to do with it. I was speaking of those who have the political power as well as the will to deny me equal justice under the law. I said I pray for “my opponents.” I do not consider people who merely hold differing views to be my opponents. Perhaps I will have time for that when I join the Sisters of Mercy.
My dear bracket27 I’m sorry my jest it is not readily apparent. Perhaps my reference to Torquemada was too oblique. I should have specified that I was referencing the Monty Python version. Please keep in mind that the role of Grand Inquisitor is not an elected office, it is by appointment only. It is at the will of the Pontiff. You need to read the fine print in Canon Law:
It is not true, as you say, that there are those in my faith that would assert that my being trans is a transgression of some sort. There is not a single word about gender identity in the entirety of Catholic doctrine. On the other hand there is a great deal to be said about social justice.
John Paul II, a friend of the oppressed said that the fundamental truths are:
These is not the mere rambling of a well known priest but rather flow from the very heart of Catholic doctrine as it is embodied in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) which states:
So by denying equal justice under the law, as this bill does in its current form, it undermines the moral legitimacy of the state. It is my duty to pray for those who would perpetrate such injustices and I will continue to do so.
I think you misunderstood what Christ meant in your reference to John 8:7. He was telling the crowd not to stone the prostitute to death. He was not saying not to recognize a whore as a whore or not to pray for her poor soul.
Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
Letter from the United States Conference of Catholic BishopsExtract of a Letter sent to all members of Congress:
No attempt to justify the discrimination against trans people – because they’re not gay. No, only that it would “have an adverse effect on privacy and associational rights of others”, just as the existing prohibition of discrimination against Catholics does.
Full letter at http://aebrain.blogspot.com/20… so you can see I’ve not quoted them out of context.
Perhaps you should use the spoon to extricate the banana
Got that right..So EQ MD isn’t going to tell them that the trans rights bill is flawed…because they don’t care.
That’s okay, the karmic wheel is waiting down in Lanham, MD to spike the marriage bill they do care about.
Reading all the responsesI didn’t expect that much response to my question.
Maybe it’s because it’s Friday or I need another pot of coffee but my brain is not functioning today
They don’t know transLurleen you say they don’t know Transpeople sso they use a GLB frame of mind in dealing with Transpeople. That could be in part because none NONE of the major GLB Orgs (HRC, Get Equal, Lambda Legal…) have Transpeople in positions where they can be seen. Transpeople don’t even have the Equal right to work in the GLB Orgs so why should we accept that the GLB is really trying to help us?
Lurleen I am not coming down on you or anyone else about this part of the problems is Transpeople too, but not all. Farther than trying to explain Trans to someone when you yourself don’t really understand why not refer them to someone who is Trans and lives it everyday? (Yes you can refer them to me if that is what you are wondering.)
I agree with youAnd lest any misinterpret my other posts in this thread as anti-spiritual.
Jenna and I have been on somewhat of a parallel journey these past few years. And have shared many discussions on what it means to be spiritual and what that means to one in transition. I hold much of the same view that she does about this transformation of self and enlightenment and the expectations of others and the burdens we place on ourselves in how they define us.
I have seen this in her person, and it is a good thing. She derives great strength from her faith and I believe it has been an anchor and reference for her in these turbulent times of transition and going into the world as our new selves.
I know my beliefs have been tested as well. And I know for a fact I am a better person for it. And I have been lucky to have such a friend that I could compare notes with from time to time.
Sharon Brackett is brackett27
Trans people need to be visible everywhereI agree that it can only help when trans people are working in the orgs, but I doubt that that will get trans people the level of exposure needed to affect societal changes because very few people are even aware of our orgs, let alone who is in them or what they’re saying. Even LGBT people often don’t know our orgs exist.
In my opinion, being out to other individuals in one’s life is the only way to really make the quality kind of contact that opens eyes and changes minds. This is my opinion because I’ve been told by umpteen non-trans people that they didn’t “get it” until a trans person came out to them. That’s my personal experience too. I had a vague idea what gender identity was, but until I met and worked alongside some trans folk, I had had no real way of understanding about trans people. Now I do. Knowing that a trans person is working in some org’s office somewhere wouldn’t have made that human connection. Only first-hand knowledge does. As far as I can tell, the need for transfolk to come out is no different than the need for LGBs to come out.
As to your last point, I’m rarely in a position where I’m asked to explain trans people to others. Quite the opposite: I’m in a listening position most of the time when conducting interviews like you read above. I ask what I hope are the right questions to figure out where people or institutions are in relation to LGBs and Ts, but I’m not there to tell anyone anything. I agree with you 100% that if someone wants to learn what being T is all about, they should ask a T person. Actually, they need to ask many T people, since of course the T community is no more a monolith than the LGB community is.
Let me addI do certainly think T people need to be in our orgs because nobody will push harder for what is needed or understand what is needed better for the Ts than Ts. This is true for any subcommunity.
Being transBeing trans and being religious are certainly not mutually exclusive. The problem lies in the existing religious institutions that condemn trans people. I think I can safely say that many trans people are spiritually oriented, perhaps because they are more aware of the disconnect between body and soul, but that being religious, in the institutional context, is not particularly common. It’s certainly not unheard of, however.
I rejected Christianity when I was a teen, still deeply in denial as a trans woman but cognizant of their inherent flaws and hypocrisy. I was always spiritually minded, however, and find similar attitudes as mine in many of the trans people I interact with.
That said,I think the support from religious allies in Maryland is very welcome. If they are aware of the heinous flaw that HB325 contains is really not the issue, I think. I don’t think anyone would be angry at these allies. I rather think Lurleen’s admonition is misplaced and inappropriate. It tells me she still doesn’t quite understand the reasons for trans people being angry or what triggers the anger.
I debated whether to put that note in there at allSo I take your point that it might be misplaced since I wasn’t sure I should place it in the first place. The reason I finally decided to was because I have observed a lot of justified anger terribly misplaced to the point of being truly destructive. As you’ve probably seen, every diary on the Maryland bills has been at least in part an unfocused attack fest. And that’s just the MD diaries. I really appreciate what the interviewees had to say and what they’re doing, and I wanted for them to be respected in the comments and not dragged into the ugly side of the bill debate. I’m glad you think nobody would be angry at these allies.
That’s true – butYou’ve quoted them in context Zoe. The Bishops think that trans inclusive ENDA would have “an adverse effect on privacy and associational rights of others.”
It’s a disagreement that can be solved with dialogue. Or maybe it can’t and we can agree to disagree. I wouldn’t take a whole lot out of that single sentence. If the church continues in this right wing direction it might become troubling but it has not reached that stage.
Keep in mind that the USCCB does not set doctrine. So yes their stance is the wrong one in our view. But let’s avoid reaching the conclusion that a political difference of opinion is the same as being condemned or using the language of hand wringing reactionaries like Equality Maryland: “devoting their Sunday bulletins to demonizing…”
Thank youThank you for not taking offense at what I said as I truly never meant any offense by it. The big question I have now is how do we get people into those Orgs to give a balance, ok there is Allyson Robinson at the HRC but to the best of my knowledge she is the only Transperson HRC has, As for the other GLB Orgs I don’t know of a single Transperson in any of them.
As for being open I live my life 24/7 as the person I feel I should always have been. I see the discomfort of the Cis society everywhere I go, but most don’t talk to me simply on the grounds that I am trans and don’t fit their idea of how I should live. A little back ground on me I am 6’2″ and weigh about 240#’s but don’t really look fat in anyway. I am oversize, I am scary to most people on fist glance, then when they talk to me (if they talk to me my voice is a deep bass that is very difficult to make sound feminine in anyway, though I am working on it.
Tell me how I am supposed to talk to people when they avoid me if they can. I am out there in public, I am willing to share my experiences, I want to help not only the Trans community but the whole of the TGLB community. I am at a loss however when I see Bills like hb235 in Maryland that would deny the Transpeople of Maryland equal access to public accommodations. If the transpeople cannot access public accommodations how are they suppose to be able to transition and get out in public so people can see them, and ask questions? Maryland hb235 is a bad bill because it denies Transpeople the right to be out in public, to be able to dispel the myths fears of those who do not know or understand.
I wish I had advice to give youI know others who have experiences similar to yours, but I’ve never lived those experiences. I guess the best advice is to find others who’ve experienced what you have and find out what’s worked for them. All I can say is just keep being yourself and, when you do find allies, be sure to gently let them know how important it is for them to not just be your friend but to speak in support of you and other trans people when the opportunity arises.
I tell my LGB allies the same thing, that when advocacy comes from an ally it has a lot more validity in the eyes of the person hearing it because the ally isn’t asking for anything for themselves. And the ally won’t be emotionally harmed if there is a negative reaction for the person they’re talking to. Sometimes allies need to be reminded how vital and appreciated their efforts are in making the world more open to us.
((( hugs )))
RepresentationIt wouldn’t hurt if trans people politely wrote to every member of the HRC Board of Directors and asked for full representation on its board. It’s not wrong to ask an LGBT organization to live up to its mission statement.
Then, wherever you live, go to the nearest HRC steering committee and get involved. Tell them that “It Won’t Get Better” until they take some risks to stretch themselves and do the right thing.
This goes for every national, state and local organization that proclaims itself LGBT. We’ve done the work to get them to buy into the full inclusive community. Now let’s hold them to actually doing something about it.
Forgive them, they know not who they screw. Monica, I think it’s on us to tell them the bill is flawed. We’re doing that. Nobody is waiting for Equality Maryland anymore.
With rare exception ministers are not reading the bill or understanding what it means. They’re just hopping on the bandwagon because a group that labels itself a “civil rights organization” invited them to a prayer breakfast.
Forgive them, they know not who they screw.
They’re not going to tell anyone the bill is flawedbecause they don’t believe that it is. If as you say they didn’t care, then I doubt they’d be backing any GI bill at all. What I see is a massive disagreement as to tactics, not a disagreement as to what laws ultimately need passing.
As for the referendum challenge to the marriage bill we all know is coming, how will a referendum repeal of the marriage bill bring about the passage of a stronger GI bill exactly?
Way back when….The Catholic Church had a struggle within itself over segregation. They knew it was morally repugnant, but they were terrified of a mass exodus of Southern Catholics if they pressed too hard – or at all – for de-segregation. No-one, not even the most rabid segregationist, claimed that granting civil rights for blacks would be wrong due to the violation of “privacy and associational rights”, just that millions of souls would be lost. Discrimination was wrong, always, unconditionally, and only when tolerating it as the lesser of two evils could it be condoned.
Nowadays… not so much. They’re fine with it. They’re still against “unjust discrimination” when it comes to Gays, only “just” discrimination is allowed. But for Trans? Anything goes. They’ve lost their way.
Even in the 1920′s, in counties where the Klan held sway, there were priests who risked martyrdom to speak out. And Bishops too, even at the risk of censure from their superiors.
Today – not a peep. Not one. Not in the whole of the USA have I been able to find one Priest, Mother Superior, or Bishop who has condemned the treatment of Trans and Intersexed people. Not one.
But at least until now they were “neutral”. Not any more. Discrimination? They’re for it.
I actually commented on that letter on my blog!My May 28, 2010 essay contains a complete point-by-point analysis and refutation of the lies of the Roman Catholic bishops in their anti-ENDA letter.
The blog entry is at:
http://trans-cendence.blogspot…
I come to the conclusion that there is perhaps one point,and only one narrow point, on which the bishops might have a justifiable call for a change in the bill – and that is to protect a bona fide occupational qualification for members of the clergy and religious orders.
Dana, perhaps you might like to look at the entire letterIn a response to Zoe, I just cited to my May 2010 blog essay in which I rather stridently disputed nearly every point made in that particular letter from the USCCB, at:
http://trans-cendence.blogspot…
I would welcome a dialogue, and I might even tone down my rhetoric (I was very angry when I referred to the bishops as “heresiarchs,” especially since I’ve already shaken the dust of the MAgisterium from my sandals after being asked to leave the Church in August 1999 over my transition “creating a scandal in the Church.”
It’s too late for me to return, even if the Magisterium changes its tune, but I would very much welcome that change in tune – it could move Roman Catholicism from one of the “Not all Paths” to one of the “Many Paths” in my view of religion.