Don’t forget the racismThat same episode had a skit called “Blackenstein’s wife” which made a lot of racially-insensitive jokes.  If this is transphobic (which I believe it was), then that other one was racist.  But then again they’re always making racist jokes so I guess people have gotten used to it by now.

Apparently, people forgetthat nothing is off limits for American comics.  They don’t discriminate as to whom they are going to ridicule, mock, denigrate or spoof.  Come on, everyone laughed at the Bachmann skit I’m sure, but you don’t hear the Congresspeople’s Defamation Union screaming about it.  
If you are going to get upset, get upset at the lies that supposed JOURNALISTS promulgate in so-called “news” that is supposed to be accurate and factual.

Comedy should get SOME leewayafter all, comedy has been pretty vicious and offensive since Aristophanes skewered (among others) Socrates in The Clouds.
And basically, SNL does something very similar to what Aristophanes did back in the day. (Having said that, SNL can’t even stand in the shadow of it’s former self)
Now I do want to see this clip to see how much leeway it should get in this particular case.

Bachmann is clearly in a position of powerwhereas transgender people as a class are not.  It just isn’t reasonable to say that basing a skit on making fun of her is the same as denigrating a whole class of relatively powerless people.
I also disagree that this is less important than, say, keeping an eye on journalists.  SNL is probably viewed by more people than most newspaper articles.  And because it appeals to the younger audience, it instills the idea in them that it’s ok to denigrate trans people.

30 Helens AgreeThe Kids In The Hall did some hellaciously funny stuff in drag.
That was just a plain awful pointless joke.

Not funny.And I don’t mean that in a snotty tone, either.
Transwomen are individuals, AND … there are specific parts of their collective journey that are bound to be remarkably similar.  Given that, there’s probably a number of ways that a mock commercial for a fake product that could improve the lives of transwomen could actually be funny.  This just failed, because there was no “joke” there.
The truer the joke, the funnier it is.  The only “joke” in this little skit seems to be an unspoken who-do-these-guys-think-they’re-kidding-they’re-totally-dudes-in-dresses thing.  And if you know any number of transwomen (like, three or four), you know that this sentiment is untrue.  And … the joke isn’t funny.
In the 70′s, there was a lot of humor based on the notion that all gay men were effeminate and all lesbians were butch.  Those jokes were only funny if you didn’t know any gay people.  They would only be funny in very limited circles in 2011 (among a crowd who don’t know any gay people specifically because they don’t want to).
There’s no reason that SNL couldn’t include transgender people in their comedy.  They just have to do it in a way that displays some knowledge about the actual transgender experience, not false notions of who transwomen are based on their own transphobic worldviews.

OK, I just saw the Blackenstein’s skitI have to give that one a pass…I mean, it’s comedy for one.
For two, one joke in the skit also skewered Jewish women.
Mind you, I didn’t find the skit to be that funny but…it was supposed to be rightously bad, as most blaxplotation films (particularly in the horror genre) were pretty awful  

Sorry I laughed…But I really saw this more of a jab at these ruinous Take A Pill For It commercials. I am in agreement about “Blackenstein’s Wife”. Pretty close to crossing the line, I thought.
I thought I was sensitive to transgender issues, but I guess not.

As far as I’m concernedSNL hasn’t been funny since the original cast!  Most of the skits they do are forced sophomoric “humor”.  I stopped watching many years ago.  I cannot appreciate people who think they are funny doing things that really aren’t.  

I didn’t think the skit was funny, for oneHaving said that, I think that you could do something like this as comedy. This just wasn’t good at all.

Some, yes. All, no.In comedy, you have a concept called “the comic victim”.  That is the person/thing/concept that the audience is directed to laugh at.  Comedy is essential violent in nature.  You are always laugh at something.  Even when someone makes themselves the joke in self effacing humor, they are simply making themselves the comic victim.  The job of the comic is to give the audience a comic victim to laugh at.
If you want, you could say that everyone eventually gets hurt by humor, so we should just put up with it and take our turn.  However, it’s not that simple.  The comedian has a choice on who his or her victim is, and being violent in nature, that humor has an impact in some way.  It can effect people’s opinion of who or what is comically victimized.  As such, humor can be used to bring down even the most powerful.  Very famously, the extremely powerful 19th Century New York City Tammany Hall political machine chief William Tweed was brought down by the political cartoons of Thomas Nast.  Here in my state, we got a governor impeached and removed from office largely as a result of the relentless lampooning of a local political cartoonist.  Humor can be a powerful weapon.
I personally look to SNL to use its weapon of humor against the powerful and elite.  I see them serving an important role in exposing the corrupt, revealing the hypocritical, and humbling the arrogant.  I’ve long felt that the SNL cast shouldn’t be allowed to take the summer off in presidential election years because there’s to much opportunity to satirize what candidates say and do.  They are being derelict in their duties to sit out such an important political event.  By making light of political abuses, business excesses, and celebrity extravagances, they fill a vital public service by knocking down a peg or two those who have overstepped their bounds.
To turn that weapon of humor against the innocent, to use it to knock down the people already at the bottom, to exercise their vital public role to make harder the burden of to most discriminated minority in America is simply despicable.  That was a pointlessly mean-spirited abuse of their own power, when their power should be used to point out the abuses of those who actually have power.  It was a cheap shot.  It was lazy.  It was phoning it in to pick on a weakling.  Meanwhile, that precious few minutes of air time that could have been used to afflict the comfortable went unused for its true purpose, allowing the status quo to go unchallenged another week longer.
Transition is an extremely difficult process.  It is fraught with fear few people could imagine.  The fear of confronting transition keeps many, many people from pursuing a life where they could be happy, and stay trapped in lives of misery.  I guarantee you, it is significantly harder for someone in or starting transition today than it was Friday.  I can guarantee you that there are many people, maybe thousands of people, who have been considering how they should deal with their gender issues who today are much more fearful of transition and disinclined to even explore it.  This sketch has hurt people.  Deeply.  Trapped in lives they hate and not knowing where to turn.  The only available option for dealing with their condition just became significantly more frightening to them, leaving them no option at all except to hate their lives.  Some people find some pretty extreme ways to deal with lives they hate.
This was not an innocent joke.

I didn’tGo through 95 hours of electrolysis to be mocked as a bearded “man in a dress”
I’m fucking pissed

There IS humor in transition…But, you need someone who’s trans to pull it off. The SNL skit is just crass and abusive and really disrespects sophomoric comedy.  

Thank you, thank you…. been waiting for a well presented response.Will be sharing this all around, and I recommend others do. As many of you know one of the reasons I am so strongly an LGBTQ Ally is that I had early AIDS patients, yes, but I also had a MTF patient who got surgery easily …after appropriate evaluation in the Bay Area (Stanford I think)…. but then could find no MD willing to prescribe him his hormones! This was 1991, I was totally shocked! Guess I shouldn't have been.My daughter is in medical school now and learned R-E-S-P-E-C-T as their (yes, Catholic) school theme throughout..But I will definitely share this with her also, and hope she shares with classmates  and co-workers in the future!!

I disagree with you thatthat comedy should always be focused on the powerful and the elite and never on those that are marginalized.
(I don”t necessarily disagree with you that this particular skit was an abuse of power, however).

That’s what I was thinkinga trans person could pull something like this off

Totally agreeThis skit is far more damaging to trans people who are struggling with self acceptance. I can imagine the fear some might have thinking that should they accept who they are, they become the butt of this kind of mockery. It is a very sensitive time in the process of transition and it could push some people over the edge. There were times in my transition that it could have been devastating. I am just glad that I made it through.  

You’all need to lighten upIt’s just the joke world. GLAAD was way over the line. They’re on the air to entertain, and they aim at a demographic target audience. SNL certainly has no responsibility to carry a social agenda for anyone. They’re just there to make silly jokes and sell advertising minutes. Sometimes they’re funny, often not. But its nothing to get all worked up over. Some people just take themselves too seriously.
I thought the Blackenstien skit was funny.
You want to be offended by something? Who the hell was that “musical guest” and why did she rate a spot on tv? Bad, bad.

How would this be funnyif you took away the inherent structure of stigmatization and marginalization that occurs to trans people as a result of stereotypes used generously throughout this skit?
Just curious if anyone is up for that one…

Yo Dogg I got a link you might likeI’m just guessing here but it sounds like you might not have a ton of experience talking to people different from yourself so I’m gonna drop a cool link you can use as a handy reference for future encounters with non-white non-males:
http://www.derailingfordummies…
Suggesting transpeople are just “oversensitive” about something like this is a really great way to show how you’ve never actually been a target of mockery more intense than the Chappelle Show. If you’ve always been accepted as you are, maybe you won’t ‘get’ why people who struggle with that can be “oversensitive”! Something to think about!

I have the right to be taken seriouslyI’ve lost my career for being trans.
I’ve lost friends for being trans.
I’ve been raped for being trans.
I’ve been homeless for being trans.
There have been men and women who’ve been MURDERED for being trans. Just trying to live their lives honestly.
You need to grow some empathy and give Transfolks some respect.

If you think that was funny..If making fun of anyone who is even a little bit “different” is funny, then perhaps SNL should do some hilarious skits about people on dialysis, another one on babies born with cleft palates (what a hoot THAT could be), then something on soldiers who have had arms and legs blown away by roadside bombs (the humor of watching them crawl around could be devastatingly funny) and other similar subjects.  It would be pretty funny, right?  After all, it’s only humor!

Yo Dogg Just A ThoughtI’m not sure if you knew this, but you can be mad about more than one thing at a time. Like, transpeople can be upset about both the war in Afghanistan AND getting treated like shit by a bunch of white twenty-somethings on the TV. There is enough hate in all our hearts to multitask.
There certainly are things off limits for American comics as well – or at least the good ones. You’ll notice if you watch enough stand up that there’s a direct correlation between how funny someone is and how willing they are to describe themselves as edgy. No one was laughing at Michael Richards’ jokes when he had his meltdown – they were laughing at a man who had lost any sense of decency.  

Well, if I may add,it’s also outrageously and disgustingly sexist too. I can’t believe they are still even on the air. The last time I watched was in 1979, when a group of really gifted cast members were on.

SNL got in trouble for the David Paterson skit, toojust as an example of this

It was a “jab at these ruinous Take A Pill For It commercials”But to make the joke work you need an example of a medical condition that most people find to be freaky, weird, absurd, etc.. So trans women are still the butt of the joke.

What could have workedI’ve said this elsewhere: If the bit had been confined to the Bill Hader character, it possibly could have been justified as a jab not at trans women but at pharmaceutical commercials.  But bearded Bobby Moynihan?  That might as well have been written by the AROOO crowd.

I think it’s a matter of presentation and timing…I’ve seen some good humor directed at people in positions of relative disadvantage — but it always has the feel of “empathy humor”, where the person making the joke (and, by extension, anyone participating in the humor) has to be either a member of or a sympathetic ally of the target group for the humor to work.

For example, Roger RoddI didn’t even know who he was until today when I started researching. I’ve been looking at some of his youtube clips and he gets it right.
The secret? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that he worked in black comedy clubs for a lot years and his audience seems to trust him. He pulls this shit off.

FYIThe Tiger Woods joke is hilarious.

herIf she was MTF, the better pronoun is “her”, not “his” – unless she specifically specified otherwise.

ITS FUNNY!I’m doing one on how Saturday Night Live comedians leave the show , fail financially , fail in life , blow their brains on drugs  and then like Chevy,  Dennis, Joe  and Victoria become complete idiots. It’s hilarious! You will love it!  Hey Andy, can’t wait to see you in 10 years hooking for cocaine in some dead end alley. 5 minutes of fame is the funniest cruel joke nature can play!

Pleasesend this brilliant essay to NBC and SNL, Azerica. This is exactly what they need to see.

I’ll see what I can doIt was written as a reply to kevinchi’s post, so there is a certain context to it.  I can add a preface to it of some kind.  I feel a bit odd lecturing the likes of Lorne Michaels on such basics as the concept of a “comic victim”  He’s lived this stuff for 35 years.

It’s a great post, azericaby all means, send it in.

Well, if, as was written above, the skit was aimed at those “take a pill and it’s all better” ads*, then I could see….
- a pill aimed at muffling the farts of old people
- a pill aimed at regrowing hair, with some truly hideous chia-pet results displayed
- a pill aimed at housewives (but for their husbands) that would get men to ask for directions
I think any of those would have been funny, and it wouldn’t have brought trans people into it at all. Point made, no powerless group disparaged.
* I didn’t watch the skit, and don’t have a lot of interest in watching it. I find most straight humor these days to be depressingly unfunny. My assessment is based solely on what someone else said was the point of the skit.

Colon BlowActually, all they had to do was go back into their vaults – to the second funny cast (Mike Meyers, Dana Carvey, Jan Hooks, and the incomparable Phil Hartman, who single-handedly made the show watchable for a good 2 seasons) and replay the Colon Blow commercial they produced. One of the funniest of all time, and it didn’t make fun of anyone but corporations.  

Playing women characters vs. bad dragThe beauty of the Kids in the Hall is that they weren’t doing drag, not in its purest form. The whole point of drag is the gender-f*ck – that a man or a woman who follows the gender norms of the other gender can be very convincing. Bad drag – think Milton Berle – is supposed to be funny simply because the man (FTMs, like lesbians, are of course ignored) is so obviously not passing. This skit was bad, bad drag, made all the less funny because Berle pretty much wrung all the humor out of the situation 30 years before any of these modern-day SNL pukes was born.
The Kids in the Hall, on the other hand, were playing female characters, and did it with as much dignity as possible – or at least as much dignity as they gave any other characters. Kathy and Cathy were not funny because they were played by two men in dresses, they were funny because the skits so perfectly skewered the warped world of the modern corporate office.  

not completely ignoredIt is not like there is no masculine drag in mainstream sketch comedy.  I don’t know about the US, but I grew up with This Hour Has 22 Minutes and characters like Mary Walsh’s Dakey Dunn.

The Flip SideWhile I agree that this particular skit appears to be intentionally mean spirited and misinformative, I can’t help but wonder how our genderqueer sistren feel about all the transrage over being portrayed as effectively genderqueer.

what?I for one am not feeling “transrage” over being portrayed as “effectively genderqueer” – I’m feeling ANGRY over being portrayed as a man pretending to be a woman. The skit has NOTHING to do with genderqueer or genderfuck and EVERYTHING to do with denying that transsexual people even exist.

I thought the first 40 seconds were great.And I liked the TSA rep, first shocked, then interested, then showing up at the get-together ready to par-tay. Unfortunately, the rest was nasty.
It’s SNL. If you like Porky’s, you watch SNL. If you expect other than adolescent male humor, you’re usually going to be disappointed.

But that is what they docrass, sophomoric and tasteless.

Do you remember Fireman characterthat was on “In Living Color”.  He was making fun of a man who was burned up in a fire.

A few kinds of good drag…There can also be good drag which isn’t about passing or being convincing; genderfuk drag-monarch-style drag can be epic.
This SNL skit is definitely not that sort of drag either.

Excellente!applauds

Expletive ExpressionFirst 40 seconds were great, eh?
Hmm.  Let’s look at that, shall we?
At :13, the lead says “if you are a busy guy like me, and a pre-op transsexual in his third month of hormone treatment”
Wow. Misgendering.  To start with.  And you thought that was great!  Hell, you could just walk around and call all sorts of men women, just because you think they look like guys.
Awesome.
At :21, we have a guy acting like boobs should just sorta magically show up.  Granted, they were visible in the lead up to that where they weren’t just a few minutes prior, but that creates the sense that trans women’s sense of value as a woman is in their boobs, a theme that continues throughout and is based on a the sexism if men in general towards women and implies superficiality.
SO you thought sexism was awesome, and treating human being as if sex was the only thing of importance is great.
Another awesome.
Halfway to that 40 second point.
at :28, they say most HRT requires you to take 5 supplements a day. THen they reinforce that.
Seriously?  Ok, yeah, maybe if you count all the pills together and you are on a strictly pill based regimen, but it ignores the fact that in most cases at least one other “supplement” (supplement?  As in something you take in addition to the normative stuff?  This isn’t a vitamin,.  This shit can kill you, and it does, every year).
But hey, this is humor right — and it is, after all, based in and dependent entirely on the high degree of stigma attached to being trans in our culture.  I mean, its not like it wouldn’t be funny if you took out the fact that people think being trans is a bad thing, after all, right?
But you, you think this is awesome. does that mean you think trans people should be treated like crap?
I’ve seen your posts elsewhere indicating you don’t think that.  THis isn’t a matter of get over it — which you can only say because you aren’t a member of the affected class.  I mean, hell, you could be told get over the whole kill the gays bill thing.  It’s not like it will really happen here.
Lucked out, the really bad stuff doesn’t happen until after 40, though.  Which is probably why you didn’t think the first 40 seconds were all that bad.
As for the TSA rep, just curious — are you familiar with the whole deal around Chasers and the nature of what constitutes a lot of trans sex work?
I ask because I’m not sure you are aware of the extremely ugly nature of what that TSA rep might just be bringing up (which is also why a lot of the discourse surrounding the film is overlooking that).
Then you excuse grown men for acting like kids.  Um, well, these aren’t adolescent men.  They are grown men who make a pretty damned good amount of money — far more than the majority of trans people make, in fact — doing something that a lot more people than merely adolescent males watch. Indeed, the specific demographic for the show is precisely NOT adolescent males, so your entire statement is little more than a falsehood used to dismiss the concerns of people who are being very actively oppressed through the use of stereotype and stigma.
Now, I know I’m being harsh here, and that you may be tempted to note that I’m being harsh since you did say the rest was just nasty.
But the reason I’m being harsh is to point out to you that the first 40 seconds are also nasty.  I won’t even get into the whole visual aspect that underlies the first 40.
The parts you found not really objectionable you fond that way because the depth and breadth of the social oppression is that great.  It affects pretty much everyone, and sometimes we need to be harsh to sorta shake people awake.
And while you are an ally, you are also cis — part of the class that is oppressing us on so many levels that it literally boggles the mind to realize.
And we grew up facing this.  We have this inside ourselves.  There are people who see this sort of thing and they literally kill themselves, no matter how many “it gets better” videos that are made, or how many people argue about whether it is really funny online.
This is the sort of thing that people use to justify yelling at their children and taking away things.  You want to know why so many trans women can be “weird” and why they are so angry all the time, it is because shit like this has been going on their whole lives and it never stops just because its off the air.
It gets repeated. Over and over again.  I can’t even use this in my work, it’s that damaging.  It is enough to send someone who might really be just a few months onto HRT off of it for fear of the sort of mocking they will hear and the hardship they will experience at work.
You call this great — even just a part of it?  Please, don’t.  It isn’t.

But the world in the ad…did take away the stigmatization.  None of the characters in the ad were mocked by their colleagues or even given funny looks by the people around them.  They were successful, active and apparently exist in a world in which drugs for FTMs are actively marketed on TV as a normal thing.  I certainly didn’t get the sense that the TSA screener was a “tranny chaser” or there because he wanted a “chick with a dick.”
The skit is unfunny and plays to a lot of stereotypes (and some outright fabrications – mostly aimed at mocking drug ads rather than trans people) but isn’t the “bash the trannies”-fest that some are making it out to be.  It actually manages to be simultaneously offensive and supportive which to me anyway, made the whole thing sort of a wash.  They aimed at “drug ad mocking” and landed somewhere around “use stereotypes of minorities for quick laughs.”  Ill-conceived, but not necessarily malicious.
That said, I don’t think GLAAD overstepped here and I have found it seriously disheartening to visit other gay sites where the (predominantly gay male) commentators have largely supported SNL and derided GLAAD.

One of…the reasons this skit is so damaging is how much ignorance there is in the US about trans issues. We have no “baseline” for trans women in this country. So, while the commercial was running, your ordinary American was probably NOT thinking about Calpurnia Addams or Kandace Kane or Alexis Arquette and thinking “Oh, that’s what actual trans women look like and act.” Despite their relative fame within our community, they have no real cache outside of the trans ghetto.
So, the general public had no example to rely on. As far as some of the simpler people who watched are concerned, it’s probably closer to the real truth in their minds.
If we are going to be figures of fun, our neighbors should know who we really are first.
Z

You aren’t seriouslysaying that the Fireman from In Living Color is the same thing as the trans women in that skit. Please tell me you are not that obtuse.

Um…This is ridiculous. Has anyone considered the notion that, in some ways, transgenderism might be–*gasp*–funny?
The indignation that surrounds this sketch is ludicrous. Although, I guess that’s all you can expect from people whose job it is to police these things, and cry like babies whenever the slightest humor is derived from their deadly-serious cause.  

SNL HistoryFirst, I wanted to thank Azerica for her wonderful post.
Next, I wanted to make a point others seem to have missed.  This isn’t the first time SNL has denigrated trans people.  It seems like it happens a couple times every year.  However, this was by far the WORST.
Skits like this from a popular, nationally broadcast show have impact.  And this one had a huge, NEGATIVE impact.  We’re out there every day educating the public and along comes SNL to knock us all back into the gutter.  People here who don’t understand listen up: Trans people aren’t just another group.  We’re one of the most stigmatized groups in society.  All because of ignorance, negative MEDIA portrayals and religious condemnation.  That toxic combination has us clinging to the bottom rung of the social ladder.  And for what?  Because of how we were born.  The only group more vilified in society are child molesters.  Think about that.
I’m sure they believe they can get away with it because we are so few in numbers.  I believe they CHOSE to attack us because we are considered a safe target.  A target worthy of a no holds barred attack because there will be no backlash.  Oh it’s big news in the community.  But outside of the community nobody cares and you haven’t heard a peep.  The one thing this whole fiasco proves is we still have a loonnngggg ways to go in educating the public.  Until the public’s conscience is raised a good deal more, sh*t like this will continue.
We cannot rest from our education mission until crap like this is deemed unacceptable by the rest of society.

My mistakeI forgot my life is one massive joke, and that all the body issues I’ve struggled through should be fodder for comedy for cis people.
Sorry… every once in a while I forget that I’m not a real person and I don’t deserve to be treated with basic human dignity.

You mean like…

Has anyone considered the notion that, in some ways, transgenderism might be–*gasp*–funny?

Oh sure!  Like being black is funny!  Silly dark skin colors!
Or how about those silly looking asians and their slanted eyes. OMG! Hilarity!
Personally, my favorite is all the jokes about women getting raped.  That’s fantastically awesome humor there.
Just remember that if someone isn’t an able-bodied white cisgender male, they’re HILARIOUS!

Maybe we should…

its nothing to get all worked up over. Some people just take themselves too seriously.

As a transgender woman, I appreciate being told not to be offended by this. As a member of the offended minority, I clearly have the least understanding of the impact that “humor” like this has on transgender people.
I’m sure that the two attempted suicides in my friend circle in the last month had nothing to do with the constant repeated jeerings of people who believe that this image of transgender people is accurate, who believe that being trans is hilarious and that we are nothing more than the butt of jokes.
I’m sure that we’ll never hear jokes about Estro-maxx being thrown in our faces as people attack us and laugh at us.  Just like we never hear people using the transphobic words of Jim Carrey or Mike Myers characters when they attack us.
I’m sure the tears that I was crying when I heard this show had nothing to do with the fact that I heard the same attitudes and words and mocking images coming from my biological family members as they denied me access to my mother’s funeral.
I would have thought these things to be true, but luckily, I can disregard my own thoughts in favor of the far more aware and intelligent cis people.  Please, would you continue to enlighten me on what I should and should not be offended by?

I wonder…I think there’s a chance this skit could work if you had real transgender people starring in it.  If the transgender people were not portrayed as the thing to laugh at, but merely as the vehicle by which the humor is delivered.
Of course, it seems to me that most of the humor relied on laughing at trans people.  It’d be a bit hard to redo that without including the transgender mockery.

Thank God……writers and comedians don’t censor themselves on certain topics because someone has felt pain in regard to them. Comedy itself would cease to be.  

Uh…Like being black is funny!
Yeah, Dave Chappelle isn’t funny at all.
Or how about those silly looking asians and their slanted eyes. OMG! Hilarity!
Q: How do you blindfold an Asian?
A: With dental floss.
Personally, my favorite is all the jokes about women getting raped.
This is my favorite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…

WowYou are a hateful ass. Congrats on that.

“I have the right to be taken seriously”No, you don’t. At least not by comedians. That is what underlies all of comedy.
On the other hand, isn’t it always people who apparently don’t belong to the group being made fun of who insist on telling you that you “need to lighten up”? Instructing you on how you should feel – that’s always good for a laugh.

Please go post on TowleroadWith the rest of the cissupremist idiot gay men. You won’t find many sympathetic ears to your mindbogglingly offensive “Oh just lighten up you silly trannies” attitude here, but the comments over there on their piece about this bullshit is just full of transphobic gay assholes just like you.
This was not comedy, this was bigotry masquerading as comedy. There’s a difference between being edgy about a touchy subject, like some bozo cracking a joke about say, 9/11, and something that does absolutely nothing but denigrate an entire segment of the human race and push bad hurtful stereotypes that do nothing but encourage abuse and mistreatment of us. If you honestly think this sketch was just a little edgy humour you’re a fucking idiot, period.

I just noticed that the clip posted at the top is missing the first 12 seconds of this piece.And since I believe that the first 40 seconds of “Estro-maxx” represents an almost perfect little comedy bit in itself, I’m posting the complete sketch here so you can judge for yourself.

“Moderator Action: Immediate ban with or without notice.”

Excessive use of profanity is discouraged, epithets directed at community members are grounds for suspension or deactivation (banning) at any time.

cissupremist idiot gay men
transphobic gay assholes just like you.
you’re a fucking idiot, period.

This is like the umpteenth time I’ve seen this sort of language from this poster directed toward other posters. Funny how some people just seem to get a permanent pass on bad behavior. Why is that?

Answerhttp://www.derailingfordummies…

Responsehttp://www.derailingfordummies…

We sleep with the moderators, of courseOr is it because there is some human tolerance of the anger of the abused but not suprisingly there is less for the abuser?

Oh pleaseTranslation: Some people don’t have to abide by the rules.
Is that it?

In what way are we funny?Yes, do tell…

@Om KalthoumCould be a good time to take a break. Come back when you grow some empathy.  

SoAnyone who thinks that Chappelle, Carlin, etc. are funny is simply a “hateful ass”, huh?
Good one.

You know…I wouldn’t expect someone who lost their parents to the holocaust to laugh at a joke about Hitler, but going from that to “the joke shouldn’t have been told to begin with” is ridiculous.
Narcissism runs rampant on this site.
 

Do not feedThe troll…

ActuallyCalling him cissupremist is NOT an epithet. It's a descriptor of HIS words and behavior. Nor is calling a gay man "Gay". Nor is calling him transphobic if he himself posts clearly definable transphobic statements.   ep·i·thet–noun 1. any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an actual or attributed quality: “Richard the Lion-Hearted” is an epithet of Richard I. 2. a characterizing word or phrase firmly associated with a person or thing and often used in place of an actual name, title, or the like, as “man's best friend” for “dog.” 3. a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc.  Idiot? Maybe, but even that's debatable when someone is being so blatantly offensive, belittling and derogatory that it becomes difficult to maintain one's temper. Which covers the "excessive swearing" accusation, because I almost never USE profanity until someone has either goaded me repeatedly until I finally lose my cool, (like Leigh_WomanOfHistory, who publicly admitted here that such was her only goal and got perma-banned because SHE actually qualified for it under the rules you're citing), or start out by saying something already so bluntly and blatantly insulting and phobic that my brain simply cannot wrap my head around the blithe idiocy on display. Normally when someone's first comment is that stupid I resist commenting here knowing I might go off the rails, but that one I just couldn't let go. My gut fear that you're Leigh under a post-ban sock-puppet aside, THAT is why I don't get banned. My use of profanity is very rare, perhaps less than 5% of my comments here include it. Hardly even CLOSE to qualifying as "excessive". And the closest I get to an epithet is calling someone being an idiot an idiot. Even if you go by defintion 3 of Epithet, as taken from Webster's Oxford Dictionary, as my intent is always clearly NOT abuse or contempt, but being reactionary in the face of having basically my entire existance and that of those like me belittled or dismissed, calling the occasional idiot like I see it might at best qualify as hostility, but contrary to your misleading assertion of having seen me do it 14 or so times to falsely make it appear as if this is a regular habit of mine, all but the comment YOU ARE REPLYING TO RIGHT NOW, were in reply to the afore-mentioned Leigh, on various threads, who has, I repeat, publicly admitted that her only, ONLY goal, was to goad me into such a response.  While it does irritate me that she succeeded, I'm pretty sure I've just adequately explained why I not only am not banned, but have never even so much as received one single warning for violating TOS. The Baristas are smart enough to take context into account. Someone losing their cool in less than 5% of her comments due to being goaded? I'm not perfect, but I don't qualify as a violation of TOS. Someone who in MORE than 90% of her comments was clearly and directly insulting and denigrating either Autumn or I, and who publicly admitted it to be her goal? Clearly violating the TOS.  As for the ridiculous accusations of me avoiding a ban because of some favoritism…  Of ALL the Baristas, I have only ever had any direct communication, or indeed any communication at all, with 3. All of these are internet only, I have physically met none.  Of those 3, Pam, Autumn and Alvin, Autumn is the only one with whom I converse with any regularity, and even that is limited to trading a few tweets around once a month or so. Pam replies to perhaps 1 in 25 tweets I send her if at all, and Alvin and I converse only in the comments section of his own blog, wherein I comment perhaps 6 times a year if you average it, and he occasionally replies. There is nowhere near anything RESEMBLING enough of a relationship with any of the three to engender any favoritism.  Lesson to whiny bitter people hoping to use my not being banned from Pam's as an excuse to attack Pam's and be derogatory to the staff here; I am only human, but I am also VERY intelligent and I do NOT take manipulative deceitful garbage laying down. If you try to use me to smear Pam's, you WILL be completely owned and embarrassed as I have just done, and I will do so with facts and logic, even at my own expense, if only to help you stuff your feet into your mouth for even having tried. Good day.

See aboveAnd then please move along quietly. As I have so thoroughly dissected YOUR attempt at derailing, you’ve no further reason to even try.

Main differenceChappelle and Carlin pushed the envelope, but THEIR comedy was NEVER blatantly hurtful or derogatory for the sake of mocking a marginalized people. They always had a valid point they worked from and their goal was always to deflate the privileged jerkoffs who DO engage in such belittling demaening crap. Carlin’s comedy targetting religion for example was always aimed at the blatant hypocrisy of organized religion.
So, nice try but no brass ring there, your attempt to deflect from your ignorance by derailing and intentionally misunderstanding those calling you on it has failed. So at the risk of pissing off Om up there, I stand by my original reply to you, regardless of how badly they misinterpret the TOS.

For Your Consideration: More SNLAnnuale. Once a year. Period.

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Poor timingWhile I’d probably never find this “joke” to be funny, there may come a time when it is OK.  It will be OK when trans people are equal under the law AND in the eyes of society.  Right now is an inappropriate time for jokes like this.
Yeah, I think being transgender can be funny sometimes.  It’s a little more subtle than dressing a few millionaires up and playing on the worst stereotypes.  Compare comedic depictions of black people before the civil rights movement to what you see and hear from comics today.  Same goes for asian jokes today versus WWII era humor.  At a time when those groups were marginalized and vulnerable, the comedy fed into that and played on the basest of stereotypes.  SNL made a sketch out of a few caricatures of trans women, there was nothing subtle, clever, or true about it.

Responsehttp://www.derailingfordummies…
http://www.derailingfordummies…
http://www.derailingfordummies…
http://www.derailingfordummies…
I could probably utilize earlier examples that depend on this to establish three or for more derailing attempts, but there ya go.

ya’ll realize, of course…that you are defending being jerks to trans people, don’t you?
If you honestly think you know more about trans lives than trans people, then please, continue.

If you’re posting those links for someone else’s edification, that’s fine.But just to let you know, any “derailing for dummies” talk is totally wasted on me. So I certainly wouldn’t follow the links.
Hope you enjoyed the extra SNL material.

Now see…… at the very most its honest on your part to admit that you don’t really give a rat’s ass about trans people.
Or about how you actively work to oppress trans people.
Or about how you really don’t give a shit about your own failings as a person.
Or how your own growth as an individual is of little value to you.
Can’t fault you for the honesty there.
But it does sorta mean that you miss the entire point of the thread and just keep digging yourself in a deeper hole.

Oh, please

Chappelle and Carlin pushed the envelope, but THEIR comedy was NEVER blatantly hurtful or derogatory for the sake of mocking a marginalized people. They always had a valid point they worked from and their goal was always to deflate the privileged jerkoffs who DO engage in such belittling demaening crap.

What a load of BS. Have you ever watched Chappelle’s show? Most of it is literally just making fun of black people. And it’s hilarious. Not because making fun of black people is inherently funny, but because he’s a brilliant comedian.
But really, your LUDICROUSLY idealized description of these guys, Chappelle especially, really speaks to the weakness of your position. You just sound silly.

You miss the point.None of those groups are as stigmatized or discriminated against as trans people.  You are CLUELESS at how hard life is for trans people.  We are NOT  exaggerating.  You think gay people have it bad?  Well multiply that by a factor of 5-10!!!  Easy for you to be dismissive because it isn’t happening to you.

Totally!No, I’m totally with you!  This shit is hilarious!
Hey…  It was really awesome the other day, when I went to go see my mother’s funeral.  You’d never believe the hilarious jokes people were making about me there.  It was fantastic!  Of course, the joke was even funnier because they hired police to keep me out, so I had to sit outside and cry my eyes out.  At least it was funny, right?
Two of my friends hilariously attempted suicide last month because of great humor like this.  I guess listening to the constant mockery of transgender people just made them laugh too hard or something.
I mean really, as long as it is funny to white cisgender men, who really cares what harm it does to minority groups.  The whiny trannies should just grow a spine or something.  And the families and friends of the ones that commit suicide over this sort of treatment should just remember, “It was all a joke.” and share a big hearty family laugh.

Crickets……and more crickets

As I said…Thank God writers and comedians don’t censor themselves on certain topics because someone has felt pain in regard to them. Comedy itself would cease to be.  

Sorry, didn’t see your commentYou are funny in the way that anything is funny when viewed from a certain point of view. I mean, is death funny? Going by the enormous number of jokes about death that are made every day, I’d have to say that it is. It’s probably not funny to a person who just lost a loved one. Jokes about death might be extremely painful to that person, and they might even take offense to them. But death is still funny. Everything is.  

Exactly!Exactly!  What would able-bodied white cisgender men have to laugh at if they weren’t exploiting minority groups for their endless humor value?
Let’s just hope those whiny trannies learn to take a joke before they commit suicide over shit like this, you know!  I mean, really!
By the way, if you’re ever telling jokes like these in the company of those whiny transpeople, I’m sure the fists you may find flying at your face are simply their way of returning the hilarity to you.

Hardly.My description is apt and accurate. You however are desperately grasping at straws and contorting yourself to pretzelish proportions to continue defending an indefensible point because your ego will not allow you to accept that I and several others have completely utterly virtually dissected you. You have lost and been proven a douchebag. If you can’t or won’t admit your glaring defeat, fine, but take your delusional hateful smug ego elsewhere, here it serves no purpose other than to troll.

YesBut most people know enough not to make death jokes to the recently bereaved.
And I’ve never heard of mocking the grieving process…unless the joke is about someone who is deviating from the “normal” grieving process.
There have been some very funny moments in my transition, but being mocked for having a mustache while wearing a dress, wouldn’t have been one of them.
Now, when my mom and were talking about getting up to Montreal for my surgery, and I had been having problems with last minute expenses…my mom replied “Don’t worry, Karen, we’ll pull this off!”  We both paused, and then began cracking up.
Now that was funny!

LOLRight, no one else recognized your ludicrous idealization of the performers in question. That didn’t come off as a “stretch” at all.
“Dissected”? What a bizarre and insular world you must inhabit.  

Another SNL skit worthy of discussionHomocil: Until you come around.
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And the derails just keep on comingTrust me, the hole is deep enough now.
Much further and you risk imminent collapse of the sidewalls

No one?YYou got the usage wrong there. “no one” corrected me but you, because everyone else knows I was correct in my assessment. You’re grasping at straws and desperate to win an already lost battle. You’re a Japanese soldier still defending an ignored unimportant tiny island 30 years after WW II ended. Just give it up hon, the more you desperately cling to your defeat hoping to convince yourself it’s a victory, the less I’m angry at your hateful stupidity and the more I just feel sorry for how pathetic your desperation is. Attacking me personally by questioning the “world” I inhabit only adds to the desperation. The world I inhabit is called “reality”, you might want to take a tour of it some time dear.

?Again, you seem to live in a very strange place. Speaking of word “usage”, what’s with all of the peculiar “fight” language?
I have so thoroughly dissected YOUR attempt…
You’re…desperate to win an already lost battle.
You’re a Japanese soldier still defending an ignored unimportant tiny island 30 years after WW II ended.
…the more you desperately cling to your defeat hoping to convince yourself it’s a victory…
That’s really how you’re approaching this? You have the mentality of a 6 year-old.

…”no one” corrected me but you, because everyone else knows I was correct in my assessment.

I wasn’t talking about whether or not you were correct in your “assessment”, I was talking about your ridiculous statements re: comedy and the few comedians that were mentioned. “Their” agreeing with your “assessment” of me and their recognizing what a silly thing you said are not mutually exclusive.
You said:

Chappelle and Carlin pushed the envelope, but THEIR comedy was NEVER blatantly hurtful or derogatory for the sake of mocking a marginalized people. They always had a valid point they worked from and their goal was always to deflate the privileged jerkoffs who DO engage in such belittling demaening crap.

This is a gross misrepresentation of these performers. You might look at some of Carlin’s material like that, but it’s a stretch and could only apply to a very small portion of it. Typical Carlin joke: Have you noticed that most of the women who are against abortion are women you wouldn’t want to fuck in the first place? There’s such balance in nature. Chappelle, on the other hand, simply makes fun of black people. And white people and Latinos and everyone else, but for the most part it’s black people.
But go ahead and have your little “victory”, you silly person.

*YAWNS*Sorry but you’re still wrong, still an idiot, still lost your attempts to out-debate me and still not worth listening to anymore. Believe whatever delusion soothes your obviously fragile ego, you won’t be derailing at my expense anymore. You just aren’t worth any further acknowledgment.
Buh-bye.

LOL

lost your attempts to out-debate me

Your obviously a highly dysfunctional human being. I pity you.  

And yet…… you are the one who seems to feel you know more about the lives of trans people than those telling you about them.
Strikes me as you are the dysfunctional one.
But then, that’s not anything new, all other issues such as, oh, sockpuppetry, considered…