It’s no secret at all than I’m bipolar. I’ve talked very plainly about having a mental illness — I came out about it here.
There’s talk that the Arizona shooter might have been mentally ill. Prima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik was quoted about the alleged killer this way:
“There’s reason to believe that this individual may have a mental issue,” Dupnik told reporters today. “I’m not a psychiatrist so I have no reason to believe the person was insane. Was he unstable? I would agree with that.”
The Huffington Post‘s DJ Jaffe — an advocate for the seriously mentally ill — wrote this in his article Gabrielle Giffords, Jared Loughner and Mental Illness:
The shooter of Representative Giffords, Jared Lee Loughner, is likely to be mentally ill.The hints are in his writings. Like Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber who sent 16 mail bombs in the 1980s and 1990s and wrote a rambling manifesto of incomprehensible philosophy, Jared Lee Loughner also had psychotic fueled rantings. Only reflecting the times, Mr. Loughners ramblings were posted on YouTube rather than mailed. He killed with a gun, rather than parcel post. More like Russell Weston, another mentally ill man who shot and killed two police officers in the Capital in 1998.
Vaughan Bell, in a Slate.com article entitled Crazy Talk: We’re too quick to use “mental illness” as an explanation for violence:
For many, the investigation will stop there. No need to explore personal motives, out-of-control grievances or distorted political anger. The mere mention of mental illness is explanation enough. This presumed link between psychiatric disorders and violence has become so entrenched in the public consciousness that the entire weight of the medical evidence is unable to shift it. Severe mental illness, on its own, is not an explanation for violence, but don’t expect to hear that from the media in the coming weeks.Seena Fazel is an Oxford University psychiatrist who has led the most extensive scientific studies to date of the links between violence and two of the most serious psychiatric diagnoses — schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, either of which can lead to delusions, hallucinations, or some other loss of contact with reality. Rather than looking at individual cases, or even single studies, Fazel’s team analyzed all the scientific findings they could find. As a result, they can say with confidence that psychiatric diagnoses tell us next to nothing about someone’s propensity or motive for violence.
So there it is.
We, in weeks to come, are likely to hear arguments for stronger laws towards involuntarily committing mentally ill people before said people engage in violence. We’re also likely going to hear about who, based on a mental illness diagnosis, should or should not be sold a gun due to mental illness. And since schizophrenia and bipolar conditions are considered the two conditions that are most associated with violence, barring people with mental illnesses from owning guns might mean I wouldn’t be able to lawfully buy or own a gun.
Now I don’t own a gun, and it’s not very likely that I’d ever seriously consider buying a gun — I have a number of reasons for not wanting to own a gun and/or keep a gun in my home.
But that said, I was in the Navy. During my career I often stood watch was often issued a pistol for security purposes for the duration of the watch. In the Navy, I shot pistols, shotguns, riffles, and fully automatic weapons. I’ve even fired ship’s 76mm guns and Close-In Weapon System’s 20mm Gatling guns.
So I’ve handled guns, and I’ve shot guns of all kinds…and I’m mentally ill.
Given the Second Amendment in the United States has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court to state the right to bear arms is an individual right for most citizens, the question of the day is this: Should I be legally able to buy a gun? Should I, who hasn’t shown propensitiy for violence — but does have a significant mental illnes that I’m treated for, and is the main reason for why I’m considered disabled — be grouped with those who shouldn’t be lawfully allowed to buy or own guns?




56 Comments


Yes Having a sibling who is severely bipolar. Who from time to time decides that they dont need the medications to function and when they go off the meds OMFG you never know what can come from them. So yes once someone is diagnosed as bipolar i think it would be in their best interest, as well as society’s to provide them medical help needed even if by law. A mandatory blood test to check the levels of meds and if failure then they are to be held in a mental health facility until they stabilize the blood levels once again..
Sorry if this hurts bipolar/schiz peoples feelings or their feeling of rights. But i have seen first hand the consequences of bipolar/schizophrenic people when they dont take the medications that DO WORK. And more than likely we will find the shooter in Arizona is bipolar/schiz and not on the meds.. I am willing to bet once they put him on them he will be horrified at his actions. As i am sure his family is right now. I know it brings up the subject of when and who determines someone needs to evaluated and I think like this young man when his school kicked him out and required a mental eval to return the police should have the option to intervene and maybe the 9 yr old girl would be alive..
You should be able to buy a gun like everyone else, within legal limits but do add…
Considering that you do have a mental illness for which you do take medication, while I would on one hand have no problem if the state periodically reviewed your gun license from time to time to make sure that your mental illness remains treated, I have no idea how that type of verification system would be fair.
Q Of The Day: Should I Be Able To Buy A Gun?I would also add a Browning Buck Mark onto your list to consider for new .22 hunter/target pistols. Use should be your standard.
Xenadrine Review
WaPo has a similar piecehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/…
Ancillary issueThe Unabomber’s manifesto is not “incomprehensible philosophy”. It’s genius. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that DJ Jaffe probably hasn’t read it.
AgreedSomeone diagnosed with an eye illness should be re-tested when annually renewing a car licence. And those not so diagnosed should be tested at first application, and then periodically thereafter.
Those owning guns should have the same kind of conditions. At least an MMPI when first applying for a gun license, then periodically thereafter.
Those with a significant mental illness that may cause distortion of reality, or real danger of suicidal ideation, should also be tested annually.
That’s not perfect – but a reasonable accommodation for patient/driver safety.
FascinatingAs a note, I’m fairly open about the fact that I have anti-social personality disorder.
This is more commonly and popularly known as being a sociopath.
I find it fascinating that the examples you cite are actually from groups that haven’t nearly the same degree of reputation for violence and horor that someone with my diagnosis has.
Also, I find it interesting that you don’t talk about part of the cause for those co-morbidities among the trans population, since you’ve gone off an this rampage of late.
One of the differences between my issues and yours is that yours is perceived — and you are contributing to it’s perception of such here — as you literally lose control over yourself.
Whereas I always remain in control of myself. Put another way, that you are not always responsible for your actions, whereas I am.
There is a certain commenter who has been speaking out often here of late who loves to make it seem like my diagnosis makes me into some sort of highly dangerous mass murderer, that I cannot tell the truth, and other such bullshit things.
I am fully able to own a gun. Indeed, I do own one. And it didn’t need to be registered (its a shotgun that was inherited).
I especially choose not to own one more often than to own one. I am good with them. I have used rifles and handguns for the purpose to which they are intended. With appropriate effect.
I don’t own a handgun, though, because I have no need for one. That said, I fully support the right of people to purchase rifles.
And I’m in favor of concealed carry laws.
Keep in mind, as well, that regardless of what the trans community might think about it, that being trans itself is considered a mental illness still.
So you might as well be asking, should trans people be allowed to carry a gun.
You’d get a more accurate discussion of the subject at hand, without the issue of potentially dangerous people with metal illness clouding the question of is mental illness in and of itself a problem, or is it just the way that society treats people that is the issue.
(I figure I’d get one more in before tomorrow. After that, lordy knows what’ll happen when I post here…)
I Agree With Ana I have had the same experience as Ana. My mother was diagnosed as bipolar around 15 years ago. As long as she stays on her medicine she is a rational person and has never shown any sign of violent behavior. But when she has gone through one of her episodes things are totally different. Frankly I would be frightened if she owned a gun while going through one of these. She definitely is a different person and would hate for her to harm herself or worst others.
The Problem The problem with this is then it could be too late. With someone who is bipolar the change can be very quick and frightening. My mother thought that the drug dealers in her neighborhood were sending subliminal messages through her tv. She thought have the people in her neighborhood were drug dealers and she lived in a nice middle class neighborhood. If she had had a gun I’d had been afraid she confront some of these people who were definitely not drug dealers. I am glad she isn’t eligible to own a gun even though she has been staying on her meds and we haven’t had an incident in 10 years.
Uh“My mother thought that the drug dealers in her neighborhood were sending subliminal messages through her tv.”
That’s not bipolar, it’s schizophrenia.
For the recordPrior to writing my comment I did take into consideration that being trans is still considered to be a mental illness, dys.
A good article with statistics re: mental illness/violenceSince the media generally jumps to conclusions about mental illness and supposed predisposition to violence, here is a rational piece.
Oh I seeYou didn’t get issued with an inhibitive conscience, the way others have.
You had to logically work out that it was better (in some sense) to be kind to others. To run H.O.W. to do more actual good in the world than many of us blessed with consciences will ever do.
That explains it.
Someone who is born without fear cannot be brave. Only those who are fearful, but keep going anyway, are the definition of courage.
Those who are born with inhibitive consciences cannot be truly good. Only those who have the choice – and choose to act for others, to be in control and with full responsibility – can claim that laurel.
That explains a lot. Not a vegetarian sheep, but a carnivorous wolf – who chooses of their own volition to be a sheepdog.
Thanks for sharing that, Dyss.
p.s. Hannibal Lector was a loser. The truly superior predator hunts other predators, do they not?
Actually No It’s Not Actually one of the side effects of bipolar in many is delusions. It’s a very common occurence.
Is it already illegal?I know that when I buy a gun, I fill out a form with a variety of qualifying questions. One of those questions has to do with mental illness.
I can’t remember if it’s a California form or a federal form. Can anybody confirm that for me? My local gun shop is closed today, so I couldn’t call to check on it.
I’ve had auditory illusions. I’ve personally never experienced delusions, but on one medication I had auditory ones of whispering voices — I couldn’t make out what the voices were saying, but I heard voices.
Manlambda is correct — delusions can be associated with mania, or even hypomania. Some people with bipolar conditions are, just as many with schizophrenia are, subject to delusions as part of their mental illness.
FormsThe forms I’ve filled out for gun purchase has that as does concealed carry forms.
It’s not just mental illness, it’s reality & logic-warping mental illnessWhen I heard some of the shooter’s ramblings, they displayed jumps of logic where there were no connections and language use I’ve seen by those afflicted by untreated mental illness. I made the armchair-psychologist determination that he was most likely untreated for schizophrenia, or a related disorder that warps reasoning facilities. And yes, that was all the explanation I needed.
No, it’s not that violence is inherently excused when a person has an untreated mental illness, but it’s very clear his ability to make rational connections was compromised. It’s hard to figure out what stressors led to someone’s violent outbreak when he’s stating that his “ambition is to inform literate dreamers about a new currency,” and asking “What’s government if words don’t have meaning?”
He’s not following point A to point B. He’s not even starting at A, then skipping a few to point D. He’s jumping from A to giraffe spoons.
It’s not that “he’s so crazy he should be written off,” but that his connection to reality and ability to reason are so compromised that normal approaches aren’t useful here. This isn’t a gender issue, it isn’t depression or anxiety, or any number of the other variances that affect the human state of mind. This is a mental state that causes him to write about a “new bird on [his] right shoulder” with a “beak [that] is two feet and lime green.”
If someone has an illness that affects the basic tools of reasoning that severely, then yes, I think they ought not to have easy access to guns. While anyone can be under such stress that they have a psychotic break, the potential for tragedy is much more likely in that situation.
That goes double if they, like some I have known with bipolar, are prone to skipping medication. However if someone’s illness has the potential to affect their perception of reality that badly, yet they are not prone to violence and show no propensity to skip their medication, I don’t think their right to own firearms should be compromised just based on that diagnosis.
But, if it was that easy to determine the mental fitness of every single person desiring gun ownership, I don’t think we’d be here in the first place.
Or maybe it is, and we just need to legislate it.
It’s not always about you.Autumn, let’s talk for a moment.
There have been a number of really nasty and vile people who have taken you and your work at the Blend to task in the past. I’ve always found their criticisms to represent nothign more about prejudice, self-loathing, bitterness, and ignorance and firmly believed such criticisms are proof you’re making a difference.
As a transsexual woman myself, I am very glad you are here, taking part in the Blend and acting as a voice for our community in the larger LGBTQ spectrum.
But really…REALLY? You’re making this tragedy about you and your personal issues? A remarkable woman lies in critical condition because of hatred and a culture of political violence. Broad issues of media complacency and violent imagery as well as the sheer awfulness of a national tragedy still hangs in the air. Amidst all this you think the question of the day should really be “Should Autumn Be Able To Buy A Gun?”
I have noticed that you often co-opt larger issues, or issues specific to other people, and turn them back around to reflect yourself. Normally I just find it annoying, but today it just feels over the line.
Right now, today, it’s not about being bi-polar. It’s not about being trans. And it’s most specifically not about you.
No,nor should anyone else. NOBODY “needs” a semi-automatic weapon–the only practical application is to mow down as many people in as short a time as possible.
See also:Assault weapons ban would have prevented much of this tragedy.
http://www.salon.com/news/gabr…
State lawsI bought a handgun 3 years ago after two people threatened to kill me because they felt that I was “not even a person”. (They were both arrested and I got permanent restraining orders against them both).
The form I filled out (California — Department of Justice) at the dealer’s store asked:
“Has purchaser ever been convicted of a felony or of an offense described in Penal Code section 12021.1, or 12001.6, or convicted of assault, battery, or other misdemeanor offense specified in Penal code section 12021(c)(1) in the last 10 years?”.
“Is purchaser a danger/threat to self or others pursuant to Welfare and Institutions code (WIC) section 8100, or a person who has been admitted to a mental health facility as a danger to self or others pursuant to WIC section 5150, 5151, and/or 5152 within the past five years?”.
“Has purchaser ever been adjudicated by a court to be a danger to others, found not guilty by reason of insanity, found incompetent to stand trial, or placed under a conservatorship, pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code Section 8103?”.
“Is purchaser currently the subject of any restraining order pursuant to Family Code Section 6380?”
Thankfully, I’ve never had to use it, but if they came kicking my door in–as they promised– I would not hesitate to use it. At least the nightmares have stopped. I live alone, and they know it. If I could get a “conceal/carry” permit I would. My local (city/county) jurisdiction makes that as hard as getting an act of congress passed.
As far as mental instability goes, I think people who abuse recreational drugs can be just as dangerous. My next door neighbor is a chronic pot smoker, and often gets extremely paranoid. When he moved in, he told me he served 25 years for murder, AND keeps a handgun (unregistered) in his room. The police said unless I’ve actually seen the gun, there is nothing they can do. Now, THAT scares me.
Let’s not forget The Virgina Tech shooting left what 30 something people dead in 2007 by someone the school kicked out and told to get a mental evaluation before returning to school. How many is that now what 50 people or so in the past 5 yrs murdered while someone was out of their mind.. and more important is the common denominator of being removed from a school and told to get a mental eval.. Maybe they should have been sent to the legal system to force a eval and maybe alot of good people would still be alive. Including the shooters in some cases.
I only say that because I love my sibling and I know what they are capable off their meds they are big and powerful physically.. It took 12 officers and 2 stun guns to gain control and transport to the mental facility and 3 days till the meds started to kick in.. they were so bruised by physical blows and then the straps they used to contain. I cried for 3 days as they cursed my mother ..
If you are bipolar/schiz and stop taking the meds please talk to someone.. your loved ones get so torn up over seeing you suffer needlessly.
This may seem a cop-outGun laws need to handle who is allowed to be able to purchase guns based on case by case basis, for those with diagnosis of mental illness.
My hubby has been institutionalized for mental illness, and daily takes psych meds. I would trust him with any weapon he chose to own…he wouldn’t want a gun, we have a shotgun in our home, he detests, and won’t touch. He also had a brother who committed suicide with a gun.
So where will the law be drawn…anyone with anti-depression prescriptions gets banned?
It also calls into question those not YET diagnosed with mental illness, mostly because medicine has decided not to cover MENTAL issues on healthcare, so poor people, who aren’t arrested, (and many who are arrested) don’t get mental screening.
I disagree, and think you are using Autumn as a punching bagShe asked a question, which I think is credible and timely.
You could choose to ignore the thread, or as you did, take out a lot of issues you seem to have stored up against Autumn.
I suggest a MIRROR, cuz honey, TODAY it ain’t about you, or your seething I.S.S.U.E.S……either
One small hitchLet us not forget that until not so very long ago, loving or lusting after someone with a similar anatomy was considered a mental illness. And then, in 1973-4 they swapped it out with needing to have the sex and gender opposite that assigned at birth, or better still, merely dressing in the clothing of the opposite sex. A century earlier many women were simply assumed to be mentally or emotionally deficient simply by virtue of gross anatomy. All of these conditions can involve prescription medications and all can be twisted into something threatening or at least unpredictable.
So let’s get the definition of “mental illness” nailed down, first. Because losing touch with “reality” can be somewhat plastic depending on one’s perspective, religious beliefs and ideology.
Thank you.
Exceptionally accurate.So thank you. That’s probably the best statement of figuring me out that I’ve ever read, lol.
And yeah, he was a loser. The effective predator will always pursue other predators, since they generally make for a higher protein consumption level.
But now you know why I don’t always say I’m a good person. I just muddle through the best I can.
I wonder if Ashley Love thinks Autumn should be able to buy a gun.Seriously. She publishes this the same week that she uses her online platform to launch a multi-part hit piece on someone she feels has insulted her? That was bad enough, but combine it with this and — what? Are we really not supposed to be concerned?
I have to say no.My experience with my bipolar brother has taught me that no matter how well your medications have regulated your moods, all it takes is a single slip to turn you into either a raving lunatic or a complete nihilist.
About ninety years ago, my great grandfather committed suicide. Based on accounts from his children and records preceding his death, my brothers and I consider it probable that he was bipolar as well. So the thought of my brother having access to a gun scares the ever-loving crap out of me.
Just my 2¢I think there are three primary and one huge ancillary issue surrounding the question of “Should Person X be trusted with their human rights of self-defense with an implement of ranged combat?”
1. Are they, at all times, in control of their own actions?
2. Are they, at no times which are not justified by defense of a person, physicly violent?
3. For 1 and/or 2, is there a treatment which both works and which the person affirmatively uses to remain in control of themselves and non-violent?
A schizophrenic, bipolar person, or chronic drug abuser might not be 2, but just needing to get high or being off medication qualifies under 1. A person who is just angry and violent might not be 1, but if they’re always getting into fights, destroying property, or just being a generic criminal, that qualifies under 2. Regardless, I believe in redemption, to a point. If a person shows themselves to be subject to err (the human condition), but able to manage their own care and rehabilitation (take their meds), and ceases to exhibit the bad behaviour of 1 and 2, then I cease to view them as a danger.
The huge ancillary issue is the perennial, “Who decides?” Who decides that this condition is out of control while that condition is not? Being high on pot is out of control, but being buzzed drunk is not? Who decides that a given violent episode was justified as defensive while another is not? Who decides that a given treatment is effective for a given person while another treatment is not? Who decides that a given person is capable of managing their own medical treatment and who is not? Largely, these things boil down the professional opinions of psychiatrists and psychotherapists.
In Indiana, the qualifications for a Personal Protection Permit are pretty, damn vague:
IC 35-47-2-3(e)
“Is of good character and reputation.” That’s supposed to encompass both mental disease and chronic drug use.
When I was last in getting my 4 year PPP, I had to bring a letter from a psychiatrist because I had stupidly admitted to patronizing the state’s many mental health facilities for reasons as varied as GID, OCD, ADHD, and social avoidance. Note that none of those satisfies either 1 or 2, nor are any of them ever “cured” by any form of 3, but the admission that I’d seen a shrink on a previous PPP application had been the grounds for its rejection. Apparently, a person with GID, OCD, ADHD, and social avoidance is not “a proper person to be licensed”. So, I spent an extra $150 for a sit-down with yet another psychiatrist to get a letter detailing how I exhibit proper judgement and good decision making abilities to send along with a second application. This time, it was accepted by the Superintendent of the Indiana State Police. I got my pink slip. I’m trusted by the state of Indiana to carry a firearm in public for defense of self and others, GID, OCD, ADHD, social avoidance, and everything.
Still, while filling out the paperwork here in the county, trying to explain to the sheriff’s deputy what all of my paperwork meant, I was met with questions like, “Your OCD or ADHD, is it the violent kind?” Violent OCD? I’ve never heard of such a thing, but apparently, a police officer in charge of filing has. “Are you currently seeing someone for these? I would feel better about recommending your license if you were no longer in treatment.” Yeah, because GID, OCD, ADHD, and social avoidance are so easy to cure that no one ever spends a long time in therapy dealing with them. I am one of those people who, though I have “mental disease” have nothing remotely prejudicial toward my ability to make the kind of decisions necessary to safely and responsibly enjoy my full 2nd Amendment rights. Jared Lee Loughner, assuming he has any history whatsoever with the mental health establishment would have been found to have such a prejudicial mental illness, and would be reported by his psychotherapists to the police who would then have revoked his PPP, were he in Indiana and had one, or would have refused to issue him one. I honestly don’t know how the situation in Arizona is, but it was just such a failure on the part of Virginia mental health professionals in the case of Sung Hui-Cho which allowed him to slip through the cracks.
I had wanted one of Indiana’s vaunted “lifetime” PPPs. I’d never again have to deal with this crap, but I fell a little short on funds with that letter attesting to my mental health. Still, in 4 years, when this one runs out, I can renew to a lifetime ticket, and the total will only be $15 more than if I had gotten a lifetime ticket in the first place. What are the ramifications of a lifetime license to carry a firearm in public and possibilities for the developement of mental illness? For me, none. I’m 37. I’m unlikely in the extreme to develope schizophrenia or bipolar disease. I’ve been a gun owner for many, many gun-years. As they say, “Ted Kennede’s car has killed more people than my guns.” I’ve not yet had a cause to fire a shot in anger, or even to draw in public. If I live my life right, that will continue into old age. No, after I get my lifetime ticket, I will never again have to place myself before an Indiana County Sheriff’s Department for judgement of my “proper person” status. It doesn’t matter if my mental status improves or deteriorates, I would still be a lifetime PPP holder.
Is that some cause for alarm? Not at all. Anyone with a prejudicial mental illness in the care of a mental health professional would have their condition, vis-a-vis being a safe, healthy, trustworthy individual, communicated to the authorities, which would communicate it up the chain to the Indiana State Police, which would check whether the person has a PPP, and if so, they would no longer be a “proper person” and the Supt would issue a recall. Failure to return the PPP upon receipt of a recall notice is, itself, a crime, and so a mentally unstable PPP holder getting help would either no longer be a PPP holder, or would get a visit from the ISPD to insure same. Even if a PPP holder became mentally unstable to the point of becoming dangerous, chances are greater than average that they would do something colossally stupid and blatant long before they went the Jared Lee Loughner route, thus, again, coming to the attention of the area constabulary. Anytime a PPP holder comes to the attention of the police in a less than complementary fashion, but most especially for unsafe firearms usage, would be grounds to have their PPP yanked on the spot, and they would have the onus of going to court to prove that they are, in fact, still a “proper person”, this irrespective of whether their PPP was a lifetime ticket or not.
As I sit here writing this, TNT is showing “Law & Order” Season #13, Episode #10, “Mother’s Day” about a mother who stabbed her schizophrenic son to death after discovering that he’d (yet again) gone off his medication and used her car to arbitrarily run down an innocent girl.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt06…
In it, the man’s doctor informed the detectives, as has been mentioned here, that most schizophrenics aren’t even violent.
So, in conclusion, should all bipolars and schizos be forbidden from being able to defend themselves with firearms? No. Only the ones who are violent and/or hallucinatory and/or refuse to stay on their meds. If they are not violent, not hallucinatory or stay on their meds without constant babysitting, then yes, they have every right to go forth armed, as I have. As soon as they are found in public delusional and armed, they should have their tickets yanked, or in the case of some jurisdictions where there is no ticket required for certain types of weapons carry, just have all of their firearms confiscated until they are no longer violent and/or hallucinatory.
If you’re rational enough…If you’re rational enough, and self-questioning enough, to wonder whether you should be allowed access to firearms…
Then you should be.
self-defense is still a personal rightand semi-automatic weapons are effective tools to that purpose.
I always though laws already precluded ownership of a firearm by a mentally ill person. I’m appalled that the FBI check did not see the red flags in this person’s behavior when he bought that gun.
We license cars and give tests to make sure a person can drive responsibly and fairly well. Tests can be developed to do that for firearms as well.
Banning weapons, making them illegal, removes them from law abiding people’s hands only. We should look at improving enforcement and sensible licensing before we provide organized crime with yet another market.
As long as you’rewell-managed with your meds, I think that a atatement from your doctor with a recommendation should be sufficient. In other words, on a case-by-case basis.
Is the person a threat to self or others?IMO, that’s the real issue. Having stayed in a mental health facility or are taking meds seems beside the point.
If the state wants to create bureaucratic shortcuts around mental illness (or anything else that might disqualify a person from owning a firearm) that’s understandable. But there also needs to be a way for applicants to address the issue.
In this case a letter from the person’s shrink, saying that an applicant is not a threat to self or others, or that the patient is under care and agrees to continue care that will negate a threat to self or others, (like taking appropriate medication)would handle the issue.
This is similar to how many states handle epileptics who want a drivers license. When I was a child, people who had ever had a seizure could not drive, period. Nowdays, people with seizure disorders can usually get a license if they have a letter from their doc stating that they’re on appropriate meds or have not had seizures for a certain period of time.
Thank youFor a second there I thought I was the only one who was sick of Autumn’s endless narcissism.
AgreedAnd not just for the safety of others, but also for the safety of themselves. A brief depressive episode can be transformed into a lethal event courtesy of an available weapon
Well, Zoe, lets try it in Australia firstbecause there is enough death in the US
For practical purposes, KevinThe Brady restrictions apply primarily to those suffering from “major mental illness,” meaning depression, mania, bipolar disorder, dementia, schizophrenia(any form), schizoaffective(?) disorder according to my sister in law, the shrink.
Thank you, MauraI didn’t know that.
I just remembered that being trans is considered to be a “disorder” of some sort by the medical community but I wasn’t sure exactly where that would fall in the scheme of what’s being discussed here.
nobecause nobody should be allowed to own a gun. but, this is america – so, yes – with the same conditions the DMV has whether a diabetic or epileptic be allowed to operate the more deadly device, the car. ie, if you are competent to manage your condition without intervention and aren’t a danger to yourself and others, then sure, go for it.
I think all of you are going about this the wrong way….First is that mental health treatment tends to be on the expensive side.
Second is the fact that most current gun owners completely loathe the idea of seeing a therapist or a shrink, because they believe (and they’ve been proven right in anecdotal situations) that their guns will be taken away by the authorities. So they continue on their path, they don’t get help, and when they DO go crazy, further restrictions on guns are proposed in the area of mental health. Gun owners can’t really win…..
A big problemwith a lot of anti-psychotic drugs is they are riddled with side effects. Frankly, in most cases, they don’t know why they work. They are typically found accidentally while developing drugs for other purposes. I remember hearing that one common anti-psychotic drug was originally developed as an antihystamine or decongestant (can’t remember which), and they happened to notice psychological effects in their test subjects. A lot of times people taking these drugs get tired of dealing with the unwanted side effects and stop taking them.
Frankly, I think you misdiagnose yourselfIf you are a sociopath, you are such a mild form of it as to fall far short of a personality disorder implied by the term. Perhaps, indeed, as a practical matter, a sociopath could learn the beneficial consequences of acting as a caring, giving person, but for them doing so wouldn’t be much different than training a chicken to play the piano. It would just be going through the motions expecting a tangible, chicken feed reward at the end. Enjoyment of the music or the benefit in the lives of others would be incomprehensible.
On Facebook, you mentioned that you were crying Saturday, as was I, as were an awful lot of people. I cried myself into a migraine that had me curled up in bed unil Sunday evening. I know what I was crying about. Crying for the injuries and deaths of others, especially others unrealted to you, is a genuine act of human empathy. Tell me miss sociopath, what were you crying about? Did you stub your toe? Did you spill your coffee?
You’re not so hard and crusty as you let on.
ah, but empathy is not absentAt least, not in all sociopaths.
And it’d be nice if I had diagnosed myself. I didn’t. But a funny thing happened along the way today. I transitioned. And doing so relieved a lot of the aspectst hat fed into my disorder.
In short, my personality has changed– and I like to think for the better, but in the end, a lot of the underlying stuff is still there.
I just have a very different value system. What I cried for was injury to someone I do care about. Sociopaths care very deeply for some things — it is the generality they could give a rat’s ass about.
As one rather sharp person once noted, when dealing with a sociopath you want to be either part of what they care about, or unimportant to them.
I refuse to acknowledge that I am a big softie, though. Would wreck my reputation and all…
That’s one of the reasons I don’t want to own a gun.In a mixed state (where one has symptoms of depression and mania/hypomania) at the same time, one can be depressed enough to want to suicide, and by hypomanic or manic enough to have the energy to actually do it.
I’ve heard at the VA’s STEP clinic that people with a bipolar condition are more likely to attempt suicide than people who are diagnosed only with depression, but I haven’t seen any studies that back up that assertation.
My frend Christine Daniels was bipolar, in the days just prior to her death from suicide, she asked another of her friends if that friend had access to a gun. That is a sobering thought.
That’s what I suspect happened to my great-grandfather.Untreated bipolar disorder caused a severe delayed reaction to his own father’s death, causing him to either poison himself or hang himself. Accounts vary on that one.
Using one’s self as an examplewhen asking a question or making a point is not the same as self-centeredness. But I’ve noticed that some folks don’t seem to understand the difference. That’s unfortunate.
Autumn is merely using herself as an example of similarly situated persons. That is a tried and true writing technique, a very authentic one at that. Would those of you who are accusing her of narcissism have preferred that she had invented a hypothetical individual to use as her example instead?
Q of the Day: Should I be able to buy a gun?It depends, but not on whether or not you’ve been diagnosed with a mental illness. Instead, it depends on whether or not you pose a threat to other people. Merely having a mental illness is not indicative of that.
Ideally, everyone applying for a gun license should have to get an in depth psych evaluation to determine whether they are a danger to others. That would probably be a bureaucratic nightmare though.
Me too, AutumnI don’t own a gun, either! Not because I’m on Lexapro for severe depression and could attempt suicide, but mainly because it can easily be used against you.
Exactly.
LOL, exactly. It must be hard for those who have poor analytic skills
In response to the actual question, hell YES you should be allowed to buy a gun, Autumn. Not that I’m really a fan of guns anyway, but yes, it’s a Constitutional right. I am so glad you published this piece, because all these threads of discussion point directly to ABLEISM and the way that mental illness is automatically linked with violence and seeing people with mental illness as already some sort of deviant, out of control monster. I have seen SO MANY heinous comments on various articles online in recent days about how mentally ill people should all be locked up, should all have to walk around carrying a special card to identify themselves, should all be killed… hmmmmm, WHAT DOES THAT REMIND US OF?!
I think it’s safe to say……that you can’t make blanketed conclusions about all people with mental illness owning a gun because of your experiences with your brother.
Not all mental illness nobut bipolar disorder specifically I think I am allowed to make general statements.
I asked the question……because I have mixed feelings about the topic myself.
There is no right or wrong answer to this question I posed, I think. It’s a tough question — but I wanted to point out that the discussion isn’t just an abstract question.
And that’s whyI brought up my brother and great-grandfather.