moral relativismit is really surprising to hear moral relativism from a doctrinaire type like the pope.  it is moral relativism that the xtian conservatives are always accusing us of.

There is only a ‘better than’ and a ‘worse than’. Nothing is good or bad in itself.

We’ve all known for years that that’s what he thinks.I can’t decide whether it’s refreshing to have him finally be so candid about it, or whether that makes the whole sordid institution even scarier.  Either way, the horrible old bastard and all his minions should be in chains somewhere.

Something tells me…

“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.

Something tells me that if the mid-1970s NAMBLA mailing list is still extant in some archive file somewhere, one will find the listing:
Joe R. Zinger,
Fourth Washroom Along,
City Centre Bus Station
Munich 666
FRG

WTF?I can’t believe he said this on record.  I am not stunned that he thinks this, since his actions would seem consistent, but I’m stunned he would say this and not even seem to think much of doing so.

OMG — Literally!Is the pope self-destructing before our eyes?  I am watching the train wreck in horrified fascination.

“Is the pope self-destructing before our eyes?”Isn’t he now older than the guy he repleaced was when he snuffed it?

I agree with you KatRose…Some where, there’s a RentBoy(s) in the pope’s closet.

Something is wrong here.Now, I’m one of the last ones to try to make any defense – or even polite dismissive remarks – about the way the Church or this pope handles a LOT of things, much less the whole abuse thing.
But there is something wrong with this news item. This may well be some sort of unguarded moment by the pope, but even then it has to have some kind of context.
And I really doubt that the context is one of defending pedophiles in principle, which is what this sounds like someone is trying to say he said.
It might be (which would be bad enough) an attempt to explain why allegations weren’t taken seriously or acted upon properly – the sort of “everyone was doing it” theory that is part of an explanation of the sexism of the 60′s, for example.
And it may well be that the guy is so out of touch that he wants us to believe that the 70′s were a time when people were more accepting of child abuse (rather than more bound by social pressure not to even discuss it as a possibility.)
There HAS to be more to this.
Either that, or the Holy Spirit actually has gotten through to Ratzinger and is giving him some sort of Jim Carrey Tourette’s that is making him tell the truth all of a sudden. If so, expect a sudden and prolonged “The Holy Father is resting in his private residence” announcement soon.

Not quite but close.JP2 was 84 when he kicked the bucket.
Benny is now 83.

HmmmThese days, I think I like the fact that Benedict is pope rather than John Paul II.  Because JPII was able to to put that benevolent face on the whole rotten Church hierarchy, and Benedict lets the rot show.  He can’t help it.  Which in turn is leaving more and more people, as in the diehard Catholic apologists, unable to defend the institutional corruption any more.
It’s like the difference between Ronald Reagan and Dick Cheney, or between Bryan Brown and Fred Phelps.  It’s useful because it opens people’s eyes to just how ugly the thing is that they’ve been supporting or defending.

You’re correct . . . something is very much amissA commentor on The New Civil Rights Movement post provided a link to the Pope’s actual letter: http://www.vatican.va/holy_fat…
Here are the two paragraphs quoted in full:

We are well aware of the particular gravity of this sin committed by priests and of our corresponding responsibility. But neither can we remain silent regarding the context of these times in which these events have come to light. There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society. The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times. From Bishops of developing countries I hear again and again how sexual tourism threatens an entire generation and damages its freedom and its human dignity. The Book of Revelation includes among the great sins of Babylon – the symbol of the world’s great irreligious cities – the fact that it trades with bodies and souls and treats them as commodities (cf. Rev 18:13). In this context, the problem of drugs also rears its head, and with increasing force extends its octopus tentacles around the entire world – an eloquent expression of the tyranny of mammon which perverts mankind. No pleasure is ever enough, and the excess of deceiving intoxication becomes a violence that tears whole regions apart – and all this in the name of a fatal misunderstanding of freedom which actually undermines man’s freedom and ultimately destroys it.
In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.

“Unguarded moment”?He made this statement as part of his Christmas address to the Curia.  How is that “unguarded”?

In other words,“It’s not our fault.”

The Church, Hate, and Tax Exemtion 
I woke up this morning to more lies and made up crap from the Liberty Counsel who receives tax exempt status.  There is an article about the HATE group, National Org. for Marriage (NOM), who not only is tax exempt but VERY late filing their taxes year after year.
To top it off the Pope in  The Belfast Telegraph  stated that “In the 1970s, pedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.”
Well the Pope just gave an out for all the priests who have been abusing kids.  It explains why they hide and move those who are being accused.  Every day there are more accusations against the church including the current Pope himself.  Are these GOOD CATHOLIC VALUES?!  ( Good Catholic values are a whole other rant)
I am going to be sick……..
Do we allow the KKK and Nazi groups tax exempt status?! Do we let them spread lies and hate openly on TV or their own TV shows or networks?!  NO WE DO NOT. Americans would not stand for it.  Why is it OK for anti-gay groups to spread their filth and lies on TV, billboards, and news?
It is OK because the whole thing is wrapped up in a blanket of GOOD CHRISTIAN VALUES? It is bad enough that they pick and choose what they want from the bible but they are ignoring some of the top 10 including bearing false witness.
Wait….I need to be sick again……..
Some say this country was founded on religious freedom and in some part it was. Most of our founding fathers were not Christians but did believe everyone had the right to worship as they pleased and I believe that as well. What I don’t believe is that any religious organization has the right to impose their beliefs on anyone else nor should they try to force the government to govern a hugely diverse population based on any one religion. Furthermore, when any religious group tries to shape the law, get caught spreading falsehoods,  do anything that is proven to damage any group, or knowingly and deliberately twist or ignore their own doctrines to create an atmosphere of hate SHOULD NOT BE given tax exemptions.
I am angry at our government for supporting this behavior.  It is giving them more money to spread the hate and discrimination we are trying to pass laws to prevent.
I am angry at the poor sheep who refuse to think for themselves and follow the teachings of hate and discrimination.
I am VERY angry at those who stay with a group even when they do not believe the hate but continue to give their money anyway.
I am tired of being mocked for wanting the world to be a kinder place for all.  Greed and hate have no place in my world. It has abused, neglected, starved, and killed too many innocent people.
When I say I want equality and justice for all, there are no exceptions. When they say it, including our government, there is the sanctioned exception of being queer.
What Would Jesus Do?     He would be pissed!

Hey, you better watch it, Lincoln.Jesus is going to turn you into a leper or a vending machine or something.

Thanks. And. But.I knew that this set of quotes had to be out of context.
In context of the whole piece, they are actually both reasonably accurate and reasonably admirable. The quotes were clearly cherry-picked to make it look like the pope was saying something fundamentally hypocritical and also that he was saying something that he very clearly wasn’t. Bad on the Belfast Telegraph. That’s horrendous journalism..
Of course, with the quotes in their proper context within the actual message, it only highlights the real (as opposed to the yellow-journalism cherry picked) hypocrisy of the piece.
It is certainly possible for the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan to write a piece on the rights of all humans, but it just highlights the atrocities. This isn’t any different.
Sorry, Your Prada, but when you are going to hold yourself up as a prophetic voice for moral authority and the need for non-relative ethics, it behooves you not to have been covering up the rape of children for decades. And it happened, and continues to happen, on your watch. Shut the fuck up.

Never trust the Belfast paperson anything concerning the Catholic Church. They tend to be more than a bit biased, less even handed than even I am about the Catholic Church, whose latest travesty is legitimisind Bill Donohue and the Catholic League; thanks bunches Archbishop Dolan and the USCCB for that.

Do we need any more proof that The Magisterium is guided by Evil?

“Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.
“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.

While I can understand that:
- in ancient Greece, what the Church refers to as “ephebophilia” was common, condoned and even encouraged;
- Mohammed married a 5 year old and started having relations with her when she was 8, and that in his culture at that time, such a situation would not be considered pedophelia;
- Thomas Jeffereon’s time, raping one’s house slaves was a routine practice among slaveholders, and the society of the time condoned it;
I cannot understand Benedect’s warped view of the 1970′s.  Perhaps from his perch at the time in the Vatican, where ephebophilia was a “normal” occurrence, and while he and his then Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith were busy condemning the more authentically Christian liberation theology movement, Benedict’s cruelly-twisted mind might find a justification.
However, when I consider that this man thinks people like me are as dangerous to society as the eradication of the rain forest, it only makes sense for him to make equally absurd pronouncements about things like pedophilia.
It is sad that the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church is so out of touch with reality, morality, and the authentic teachings of Yeshua ben Miriam.

It is *still* pretty badThe only thing I will grant the Church hierarchy with regard to the pedophilia issue and their response to it, is that some of the hierarchy was aware as early as the 1960′s that the practice of forgiveness, repentance at a retreat house, and re-assignment of a priest who would “go forth and sin no more” did not work in over 90 percent of the circumstances.  ALL of the hierarchy, at least in the US, was aware of the situation by 1986, when a report was made to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Blaming it on “society” only reflects how out-of-touch Benedict has been since he was elevated to replace Cardinal Ottaviani as the head of the Congrrgation for the Doctrine of the Faith.  Benedict has been the architect of the retreat from the Church’s encounter with “The Modern World” that was evidenced by Vatican II.
Had the Catholic Church instead worked on a road toward greater ecumenism and a restoration of the common grounds with Protestants, Eastern Christians, Muslims and Jews, all what Islam regards as “People of the Book,” Perhaps the Church and the World would be better for it.
Had the Catholic Church recognized that the liberation theology movement was/is a more genuine approach to the teachings of Yeshua ben Miriam, perhaps the Church would better see the essential Truth of social justice.
Had the Church finally come to understand the beautiful scriptural teachings that the range of ensoulment runs from first breath to last breath, there might not have been a Humanae Vitae and we might not have such a rabid and consistent assaault from the Church on women’s reproductive rights.
Had the Church hierarchy listened to the advances in scientific understanding of gay and trans people between the 1960′s and the present time, we would not have had the series of pronouncements from the Magisterium that cause the Church to focus on oppressing LGBT people. (And though not perfect, and abused in many ways, the Fatwa of the Ayatolloah Khomenei about trans people shows a deeper insight into the nature of trans folks than anything coming from Paul McHugh and his Vatican counterpart Urbano Navarette, and their misinforming of the hierarchy).
In a different world, one in which a certain Joseph Ratzinger, n/k/a Benedict XVI, were truly inspired by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, the Roman Catholic Church would actually have stopped the pedophilia sandal some time in the lte 1960′s.
Instead, we have a Roman Catholic Church that nearly every day proves that it has no concept of morality, no understanding of natural law, and whose exegesis of sacred scripture on many moral matters is utterly flawed.