Amen Alvin…For far too long the peeps in the LGBT movement have forgotten that we exist, and it has been to the detriment of the TBLG movement as a whole.
The African American community would like to forget that we exist, but news flash for the AA community, we’re here and the chocolate SGL and trans community ain’t going away.  
I didn’t give up by membership in the Black community when I transitioned, and I still get called the n-word by white peeps gay and straight.
And I agree we have a common enemy to fight in the same conservative anti civil right Forces of Intolerance the AA civil rights movement battled.  They too the lessons learned in LOSING to us and are applying them in balling the GLBT movement
The sooner we start working together intersectionally, the better.

Uh, what Alvin said…oh andTo LGBT peeps…
don’t simply look at the successes of the black American civil rights movements (and there are successes to be had).
Look at the failures as well.
Look at the pushback that the establishment did give black civil rights.
And do understand that “the black civil rights movement” wasn’t a penomenon of the 1950′s and the 1960′s either; a lot of times that’s the only period that I hear you lgbt peeps refer to…and I’ll give you an example…
“Oh, they never interviewed the KKK as a counterpoint to MLK in the 1960′s”
Now, I think that would be correct.
But for a roughly 30-40 year period in the early part of the century (~1910ish-1940ish, yes, the media did consider the racial viewpoints of the KKK to be valid viewpoints.

rubbishthis story is a half-assed, wimpy piece of dribble.
There are very real issues at play here; shame on Newsweek for lacking the balls to properly explore them!

What’s rubbish, Kaufman?Alvin’s take on it or Newsweek’s story?
And be specific as to why it’s rubbish. Or maybe you just can’t think that hard.

This kind of talk makes me uncomfortablePlease stop tearing down my preconceived and tightly help notions.

Stop Making It Sound So SimplisticThat has to be the part that annoys me the most about the LGBT community.  It seems like we’re constantly organizing shallow events, like marches, that we expect will magically change everything without considering the fact that in the past A LOT of planning went into these events, including what would happen AFTER the march.
It’s like we’re incapable of organizing complex projects for the long-term.  Actually, I don’t want to lump myself in that group because I am working on a complex and long-term project, but past leaders certainly couldn’t handle that.

Speaking of getting on people’s nervesI think it would behoove you to stop making generalizations about the LGBT community.  It doesn’t help your case/cause at all when your generalizations make it sound like the LGBT community is nothing but ignorant white folks.  

Thanks AlvinIt is the responsiblity of white LGBTs to listen, and educate ourselves on LGBTs of color, and issues effecting communities outside the LGBTs. It’s also vital that LGBT organizations reflect our diversity at every level. I don’t envy the positions you, kev, or Pam have dealt with all your lives, and I applaud you for doing it so graciously, I’m sure there are days you want to tell both groups to go FCK off.

**drops earrings and kicks off stilettos**as if the LGBT community (including the ignorant white folks in the LGBT community) don’t make “generalizations” about the “ignorant straight down low” black folks in the black community?
And I’m not saying that the black community doesn’t make similar generalizations; they do. All of the damn time.
I swear, I never fail to be amazed at how similar the LGBT communities and the black communities really are.

Why isn’t Alvin addressing women, Native Americans, and people with disabilities too?Alvin can spare us the lecture about making “counterproductive” comparisons to the black civil rights movement.
Why isn’t he addressing that lecture to women, Native Americans, people with disabilities, Chicanos, Jews, undocumented workers, black South Africans, and every other group that has drawn inspiration from and made inevitable comparisons to the black civil rights movement?
Oh, that’s right, because the only group ever attacked for making the comparison is gay people–because the attack is nothing but an thinly veiled eruption of homophobic bigotry. It’s not “how dare anyone compare themselves to the civil rights movement”; it’s always “how dare PERVERTS compare themselves to the civil rights movement.”
I refuse to validate that bigotry by declaring that gay-black comparisons, unlike any other inter-movement comparisons–to be offensive, while ignoring that the supposed offense is a manifestation of anti-gay bigotry. If Alvin wants to cater to it, more power to him. But he can stop jumping down my throat for not taking his bigotry-coddling path.

It’s not about any lack of nuanceAnd the “offense” doesn’t come from any lack of nuance. One can make the most nuanced, qualified, careful, cautious, and respectful comparison, and it will still be attacked as offensive, Alvin, because the problem isn’t lack of nuance. The problem is the attitude that homosexuality is a perversion such that ANY comparison to African Americans is offensive.
Stop falsely equating that black homophobia with hasty comparisons by gay people. First, a hasty comparison may be flawed and in need of refinement, but there should be nothing spit-triggering offensive about it–that’s where the bigotry comes in. Second, how dare you minimize the bigotry by pretending that it is about nothing but objection to the absence of adequate nuance and qualification. It’s far more than that, however self-deluded you are about it.

Pushback…That’s an understatement Kevin…the conservafool movement is STILL hatin’ of the AA Civil Rights Movement and African Americans gay, trans and straight
One of their goals in addition to screwing with GLBT peeps is to roll back every piece of civil rights legislation that was passed during that period.  
Much of that legislation is based on Supreme Court cases grounded in the 14th Amendment, which is why they are using a specious ‘citizenship’ argument in order to rile up the conservasheeple and attack it.  
And to piggyback on your point about that period in the early 20th century, the marriage issue that twisted the Forces of Intolerance draws in knots them was interracial  marriage.      
They had their hate on for interracial marriage so much that a Georgia senator named Seaborn Roddenberry, in reaction to heavyweight champ Jack Johnson’s ‘arrogance’ and pursuit and marriage of white women, proposed this constitutional amendment in 1911.

Intermarriage between Negros or persons of color and Caucasians…within the United States … is forever prohibited.

Fast forward to 2003   The Federal Marriage Amendment

Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution or the constitution of any State, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups

 
so yeah, there are some similarities and some differences but we’re all fighting the same anti civil rights fools.
 

Won’t workOh, please! LGBTs do far more to incorporate LGBTs of color than black groups do to incorporate black LGBTs. I absolutely reject Alvin’s self-serving false equivalency.
You can go censor every gay-black comparison, educate yourself to the max, and be completely sensitive of nuance and detail, and do you know what will happen?
When you propose a marriage equality bill, a collection of bigoted black ministers and their followers will attack you, and the very first words out of their mouths will be: “How dare you perverts compare yourselves to the civil rights movement.”
It makes no difference whatseoever that neither you nor anyone else ever even hinted at such a comparison. It has become the standard way to inject race into a gay-rights debate in an attempt to divide people and undermine the campaign for gay equality.
Until Alvin recognizes that reality, his lecturing with an attitude of false equivalency is pointless.

or the BS assertion in LGBT spaces …that Black people are ‘uniquely homophobic’ and oppose the rights march of LGBT people when we have had CBC congress members, major civil rights leaders such Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Joseph Lowery, the late Coretta Scott King, the late Yolanda King, Rep John Lewis, Julian Bond and ministers such as Bishop Yvette Flunder, Bishop Carlton Pearson and Archbishop Desmond Tutu repeatedly condemn the faith based hate and consistently vote for pro GLBT rights legislation.
But its ‘our fault’ you have 36 state constitutional anti gay marriage bans in place and you’re 0-34 in referenda battles.
We didn’t found NOM, the Christian Coalition, the Family Research Council, Unfocused on The Family, pump millions into Prop 8 like the Mormon Church did or even hold leadership positions in these hate orgs, the folks who share your ethnic heritage do.
But we’re ‘uniquely homophobic’.  

Really?

LGBTs do far more to incorporate LGBTs of color than black groups do to incorporate black LGBTs. I absolutely reject Alvin’s self-serving false equivalency.

How do you this?
And bigoted white ministers (rather cynically, I might add)pooh-pooh the same comparisons but I don’t hear you yelling at them about their whiteness…
Noooo, in your perception, those Negros are supposed to “know better.”  

CorrectionMy question is how do you know the above quote of yours that I outlined?

Only “white folks”get to have that kind of diversity Monica, didn’t you get the memo, LOL?

Compare Muslims, Atheists, and Undocumented WorkersConsider this alternative perspective.
Recently, I have heard Muslims, atheists, and children of undocumented workers (in lobbying for the DREAM Act) make comparisons to and propose explicitly imitating the GAY-RIGHTS movement. In particular, the focus has been on the tactic of “coming out.”
Do you find that offensive if it isn’t heavily qualified, nuanced, and reflective of a deep and thorough understanding of the gay-rights movement, Alvin? I sure as hell don’t.
Do I think it is a perfect fit? No. Could the comparisons be refined and qualified? Sure.
But do I yell, “How dare you [terrorists][godless atheists][illegals] compare yourself to gay people”? Uh, no. Why, because I’m not an anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, or anti-undocumented worker bigot.

Really?Maybe you’ve missed, for instance, all the posts on LGBT blogs of fantastic speeches by black legislators–most recently the state senator from Illinois on civil unions–leading on gay rights.
Do you spit at children of undocumented workers for comparing their movement to the gay-rights movement?

Where? Wake up and smell the vanilla scentred privilege

Oh, please! LGBTs do far more to incorporate LGBTs of color than black groups do to incorporate black LGBTs. I absolutely reject Alvin’s self-serving false equivalency.

Name one major GLBT organization either inside or outside I-495 that is headed by an African American LGBT person or has AA peeps of color in its senior leadership?
Black GLBT orgs exist as a reaction to the lack of POC’s in the larger community orgs.  The reason the NBJC exists is because HRC wasn’t doing the job in hiring and retaining GLBT people of color.  At NCTE you can count the number of AA transpeople they have hired in their seven year history on one hand much less the number of AA peeps they’ve had on their BOD.  
Race matters SkepticalCicada, even in the GLBT community.    Too many people on the liberal progressive side decry ‘identity politics’ but this movement sure has been getting its collective azz kicked by conservative movement people who understand that all US politics IS identity politics.

And my principal point:You can go censor every gay-black comparison, educate yourself to the max, and be completely sensitive of nuance and detail, and do you know what will happen?
When you propose a marriage equality bill, a collection of bigoted black ministers and their followers will attack you, and the very first words out of their mouths will be: “How dare you perverts compare yourselves to the civil rights movement.”
It makes no difference whatseoever that neither you nor anyone else ever even hinted at such a comparison. It has become the standard way to inject race into a gay-rights debate in an attempt to divide people and undermine the campaign for gay equality.

And my principle point, which you ignored:You can go censor every gay-black comparison, educate yourself to the max, and be completely sensitive of nuance and detail, and do you know what will happen?
When you propose a marriage equality bill, a collection of bigoted black ministers and their followers will attack you, and the very first words out of their mouths will be: “How dare you perverts compare yourselves to the civil rights movement.”
It makes no difference whatseoever that neither you nor anyone else ever even hinted at such a comparison. It has become the standard way to inject race into a gay-rights debate in an attempt to divide people and undermine the campaign for gay equality.

Gee, Kevinchi, where’s your response here?
Okay, so you’ve wallowed in victimhood at my suggestion that the LGBT community is more inclusive of black gays than the black community is of gay blacks.
Now, how about responding to anything relating to my main point. You’ll know it because it’s the one I’ve devoted paragraph after paragraph to making.

Who’s trying to censorevery gay-black comparison?
I’m not. Far from it.
The sexual degradation of black of black people (promiscuity, susceptible to STD’s, akin to bestaility) is exactly what the Religious White do to gay people today.
DADT repeal will bring about more cases of AIDS in the armed forces. Back in the 40′s, it was said that racial integration of the armed forces would bring about more case of syphillis among the good ol’ white boys.
There’s no difference there to me? Who’s trying to censor this; it’s all a matter of the historical record.
And how dare you “vaniila flavored” ass try to implicate all black people (including black LGBTs) in this.
Urvashi Vaid has been warning the LGBT community about the Religious White inroads into the black comm for over a decade. The powers that be in the LGBT community refused to heed her warnings.
Now who’s fault is that…oh, it’s the black people because tey’re supposed to “know better.”  

I see, you don’t have a responseTo repeat, and add a clarification:
ONE can SELF-censor every gay-black comparison, educate ONEself to the max, and be completely sensitive of nuance and detail, and do you know what will happen?
When you propose a marriage equality bill, a collection of bigoted black ministers and their followers will attack you, and the very first words out of their mouths will be: “How dare you perverts compare yourselves to the civil rights movement.”
It makes no difference whatseoever that neither you nor anyone else ever even hinted at such a comparison. It has become the standard way to inject race into a gay-rights debate in an attempt to divide people and undermine the campaign for gay equality.

And leave off the racist name-callingThanks.

Rep Senfronia Thompsson’s 2005 floor speech against TX marriage ban

So now that blacks and women can vote, and now that blacks and women have equal rights, you turn your hatred to homosexuals–and you still use your misguided reading of the Bible to justify your hatred. You want to pass this ridiculous amendment so you can go home and brag.
Brag about what? Declare that you saved the people of Texas from what? Persons of the same sex cannot get married in this state now. Texas does not now recognize same-sex marriages, civil unions, religious unions, domestic partnerships, contractual arrangements, or Christian blessings entered into in this state–or anywhere else on this planet Earth.

BTW here’s the full text of Rep Senfronia Thompson’s speech.
http://transgriot.blogspot.com…

Point being?
Perhaps you misread my comment. I asked Kevinchi if he hadn’t seen all those (white) LGBT bloggers posting all sorts of speeches exactly like the one your posted, of black legislators courageously standing up for (or in my shorter word, above: “leading”) on gay rights.
I believe I gave the example of an Illinois state senator with an excellent pro-gay speech recently. There are examples from many states in recent years, from Massachusetts to Georgia.
Not that I don’t appreciate you ignoring every word I’ve written and commencing to “educate” me like I’m some ignorant racist. That’s easier, I guess, than responding to my criticism of Alvin’s post.

racism=prejudice plus powersomething you should already know from Sociology 101….
but here’s a refresher course right now.

Racism is the systematic discrimination, denial of rights and benefits by whites against non-whites in all areas of human activity.  (economics, education, labor, law, politics, religion, sex and war).

Racism is not the BS conservative definition of what you accuse POC’s of who are critiquing whiteness or white supremacy and how it operates in society, and you white peeps getting your backs up because we did so

slam dunk Monica

Name one major GLBT organization either inside or outside I-495 that is headed by an African American LGBT person or has AA peeps of color in its senior leadership?

The stats speak for themselves. The fact is that class and race and the discomfort of the idea of sharing power with those who don’t run in their socioeconomic circles exacerbates the cycle of non-inclusion.
The fact is that the white out is not out of malice, but bourne of lack of self examination of privilege and how it plays out in the lack of diversity. That means stepping out of the comfort zone, and most people lack the initiative or energy to go there.  

Hmm. Still no response from Kevinchi to my actual argument?Oh well, I guess it’s more satisfying to just lob racist name-calling at me.

Spare me
your pathetic rationalization for your “‘[chocolate]-flavored’ ass” getting to spit derogatory names in other people’s faces.

And my principal point, which you ignored:
You can go censor every gay-black comparison, educate yourself to the max, and be completely sensitive of nuance and detail, and do you know what will happen?
When you propose a marriage equality bill, a collection of bigoted black ministers and their followers will attack you, and the very first words out of their mouths will be: “How dare you perverts compare yourselves to the civil rights movement.”
It makes no difference whatseoever that neither you nor anyone else ever even hinted at such a comparison. It has become the standard way to inject race into a gay-rights debate in an attempt to divide people and undermine the campaign for gay equality.

Oh, I haven’t lobbed any racist name-calling at youI could, but I haven’t done that.
TRUST ME ON THAT ONE!
I’ll answer you when I get good and goddamned well ready, not at your behest and beck and call.
(Overall, you have some good points there and some bullshit pts. from what I can see, offhand.)
What I don’t like though, is this pretense of white gay innocence in the matter.
It’s as sickening to me as the supposed innocence of straight blacks.

who cares about your “principal point”when you’ve ignored the principal point(s) of every black poster in this thread.

Yes, your “‘[chocolate]-flavored’ ass” did
I happen to be one who tries to avoid making these gay-black comparisons, and I happen to criticize white gays when they make comparisons that are too simplistic, dismissive, or trite.
But Alvin is absolutely wrong if he believes the objection is based on nothing but the lack of adequate nuance, qualification, etc. It won’t. [b]Because it is the standard tactic for injecting race as a diversionary tactic.[/b]
You can look at many comment boards to many gay-rights articles. No one in the article will have said a word about race. No on in the comment board will have made any comparison. But guess what you find?
That’s right, ugly homophobic comments that share a common theme: “How dare you perverts compare yourselves to the civil rights movement.” It’s remarkable. You see it over and over and over. No one so much as mentions race, and then some tirade appears attacking the non-existent comparison.

WOW!!!

Oh, please! LGBTs do far more to incorporate LGBTs of color than black groups do to incorporate black LGBTs. I absolutely reject Alvin’s self-serving false equivalency.

WOW…Just…WOW!
Only someone who is NOT a LGBT person of color could have made such a bold and unfounded statement.
I’ll say again, that I find the entire comparison unproductive and factually inaccurate.
What I will say is this…the religious right is fully aware that the LGBT community has serious race problem. They also know that the LGBT community has a near pathological fear of actually interacting with people of color in their own communities.
They in turn have no such problem. I’ve always found it facinating that LGBT organizations stay well clear of neighborhoods, churches etc dominated by people of color….but right wing folks who hate LGBTs with a fiery passion will plow right into our communites. They know full well that the LGBTs own fear and prejudice won’t allow them to follow. Thus, for the most part, they get the playing field to themselves.
I grew up on the Southside of Chicago…and it always stuck me that those lilly white mormon boys would wade right into our neighborhoods to spread their message regardless of whether people were interested in hearing it or not. Those well funded rightwing pastors have no problem with turning up in black churches to spread their ideology and put resources into addressing some of the issues that locals are interested in.
LGBT orgs just have not and will not do the necessary legwork needed to bring POCs onside.
Alot of it also has to do with class. The Black Civil Rights movement was dependent on mobilizing people across the economic spectrum. There was a greater sense that everyone was in the struggle together.
Lets face it, LGBT orgs are largely run by and ultimately work for upperclass white guys who have no idea how to interact with poorer working class folks (of any color). They feel safe in their upperclass enclaves and have no interest in venturing out and experiencing how the other half lives (someone on this very board plainly stated that he would not interact with “lowerclass” people.
Since most folks are not rich (and POCs tend to be disproportionately poor) that leaves the LGBT community numerically even further behind.
They in turn realy heavily on POC organizations like the NAACP or La Raza to do all of the leg work for them since they can’t be bothered to try and learn how to interact with us commoners directly.

Really?When did Alvin become white? I’ve devoted paragraphs to his opening comment.
Hey, if you’d rather wallow in victimhood over one paragraph in one of my posts and ignore both Alvin’s argument and my response, that’s your “‘[chocolate]-flavored’ ass’s” prerogative.

Uh, that’s caramel-flavored ass to youand yes, I have been told that it’s quite tasty.
And I’m not even going to count the number of times that I’ve seen racial epithets on (white) LGBT boards even when race has nothing to do with the thread.

Thanks, potHow interesting that you apparently define “LGBT community” as all-white and proceed to make grotesque generalizations about “it.”

Good comment, GeekI mean, if the (bigoted) messanging at the grassroots level is unopposed because gay folks are scared to do the dirty work of grassroots organizing in communities of color than who’s fault is that?
And little do they know that, by and large, the NAACP is not a grassroots organization and the NAACP really has never been that type of organization.
But why would the LGBT powers that be neglect their one greatest resource: the LGBT sons and daughters of those awful homophobic colored peoples?

Give me a break
I did not say there are anti-gay epithets on boards when sexuality has nothing to do with the thread–although that is true as well.
I said that there are tirades about comparing gay and black when no one in the article or in the comment board even hinted as such a comparison.
Alvin’s theory is that the problem comes from the fact that the comparisons are not being made in a more nuanced and qualified manner. My response: There often ARE not comparisons made at all, and the tirades still appear [b]because it is the standard tactic for injecting race into a gay-rights debate in order to divide.[/b]
Since I never invited your vulgar personal slur against me, I’m amused that your “‘[chocolate]-flavored ass’” thinks it gets any say about what I call it.

And how does that relate to the “offensive” comparisons
That Alvin says simply need to be more nuanced and qualified, and which I say will be objected to regardless because it is a tactic.
Incidentally, by “gay folks” do you mean all people who are gay or just the ones with the “vanilla-flavored asses”?

For the recordsince you seemingly ignore what anyone has said in this thread and you have your own ready made conclusions
I heard you the first time that you said

I said that there are tirades about comparing gay and black when no one in the article or in the comment board even hinted as such a comparison.

and you don’t need to repeat it.
There are tirades against all black people on threads in the LGBT blogosphere all of the damn time, even when the article has nothing to do with race.
You also ignore the fact that there are (probable) racist trolls at all of these threads all over the blogosphere that seek to continue the divide.
Not to mention the gay racists at some of those threads.
So to me…all of this can go around and around and all it’s doing is continuing to stir the problem.
Alvin’s main and overarching point is that neither the (white) LGBT community nor the black community is completely innocent.
 

I said precisely what I meantand I anticipated your question.
The answer is there and I don’t like repeating myself.

Apparently I do
need to repeat because you simply ignore what I say rather than respond to it.
Alvin is not talking about anti-black slurs by gays, anti-gay slurs by blacks, or slurs in general. He is responding to a particular controversy–highlighted by the Newsweek article–of blacks taking offense at comparisons between the two movements. That’s a very specific point.
Alvin blames white gays and claims that if the comparisons were just more nuanced and qualified, there would be no problem.
I say the comparisons can be as nuanced and qualified as is humanly possible, and the objection would still be made because, in fact, the objection is made even when NO comparison is made AT ALL. I say it is a tactic used very deliberately to divided along racial lines in any gay-rights debate.
So do you think the problem with the comparison is the lack of nuance (Alvin) or something deeper (my view)?
Or would you rather just ignore what the diary is about and talk about racism in the gay community? You probably should post a separate diary if that’s what you want to talk about.

Is that a chip on your shoulder, or are you just glad to see me?Let’s see if I got this right, You censored every gay-black comparison, educated yourself to the max, and are completely sensitive of nuance and detail, and yet some black bigots didn’t magically stop making their ignorant arguments, so you are going to take your ball and go home, all the while screaming at the black guy who is calling out the black community for making those ignorant statements, because he dared also to suggest that many of us white folks are ignorant enough of the struggle of black people for equality that our methods lack the strategic planning and overall leadership that earlier movement had.
If Mr. McEwen’s criticisms don’t apply to you, then fine.  They weren’t addressed to you specifically.  They were addressed to those of us who haven’t yet reached that level of understanding and who haven’t yet dealt with both our internalized and external racism.  Just because you may have dealt with the racism in your own life doesn’t mean that it isn’t a major problem in the GLBT community.  
I grew up in an all white town (I didn’t learn until I was an adult HOW it was kept an all white town, but that sad story can wait until another day and another post).  To make a long story short, I found myself in the Army serving alongside black soldiers.  Luckily for me my folks had taught us kids that racism was bad, and that we are all equal.  (Heavy on the theory, light on the practice).  So one scorching day in Viet Nam I innocently turned to the guy next to me and said “Boy, is it hot out here today!”  ”BOY?” He screamed at me, “Who you calling ‘boy’, you white-ass mother-fucker?”
It probably took me 10 years to get over my aggrieved feeling, and my anger that he somehow didn’t recognize that from my upbringing in that sad lilly white town, the word “boy” had no racial overtones, but was simply used as an exclamation.     It took me 10 years to get that chip off my shoulder.  

OK, who objects to the comparisonnot me…and I make them all of the time?
Actually, I think that the truth lies somewhere between your view and Alvin’s view.
As Geek has noted (as have I and Alvin notes this too) a lot of LGBT’s simply don’t know what the hell they’re talking about when the comparison is even attempted.
Over at the Great Orange Satan a few weeks ago, for example, one of the Obamabot trolls was highly offended that Obama was being protested aboutr DADT repeal; maintaining that black people never protested Truman.
I provided both written and visual evidence refuting their claim as well as providing nuance as to the circumstance from both sides as far as the racial integration of the armed forces.
When you know your shit, people tend to back off.

Oops – the above wasn’t meant to be a standalone postIt was meant to be a reply to SkepticalCicada  

Or…try this for nuanceIt’s a very true claim that one thing that is almost unique about LGBT oppression is that an LGBT child may not have the parental support that a child of color does in the home.
And while for the most part that’s true…
Remember that if a black child is of a darker shade than the rest of their family or even another sibling that there is no guarantee that positive reinforcement is actually going to come from the home. I can’t tell you the number of stories that I’ve heard about the the familial insensitivity toward their darker children in the black community.
I’ve actually had occasion to use that little nuance in talking with some black folks (as opposed to white LGBTs that like to talk about black folks that can “pass” for white).
When I’ve used that analogy, more often than not, actually, a straight black person does begin to “get” what can possibly happen to an LGBT child.

I just thought I’d mentionPhoenix Pride Foundation just announced their new executive board for next year, and the new Chairperson is Lawrence Moore, who is a gentleman of color.  Phoenix Pride might not rise to your definition of a major LGBT organization, but it’s a pretty big deal in these parts.  Also, I’m not quite sure if his term has started (but I think it has), so you may get me on a temporal technicality, but it is at least one pretty significant LGBT organization outside I-495.

The Newsweek article is beyond idiotic and any dissection of it is pointless.It quotes both Brian Brown and Harry Jackson within the first few paragraphs and then Alveda King later on.  How does what these lunatics think have any bearing on anything?  They certainly have no place in any serious discussion.
But, of course, this isn’t a serious discussion.  There can be no serious discussion.  Some stupid people have their feelings hurt because they think they own civil rights?  Who cares?  Other stupid people think unflattering things about others?  So what?  This parade of fools is not only not serious, it’s not the least bit interesting.
I do not care what anybody else thinks about my life or any aspect of it.  If there are black people who are upset because I demand my equality, then big deal.  Get in line.  If there are LGBT people who aren’t doing everything right according to some people, I don’t care as long as they’re doing something good.
And if anybody wants this all to go away, then declare everyone equal and it will go away.  Until then, if you can’t contribute anything other than false arguments and hurt feelings, just get out of the way.  Your feelings are of no interest to me in the least, especially when you put them before my equality.
Everyone knows that coalitions must be made and there are lessons to be learned, but none of that is going to happen by dealing with anyone who puts their immature emotions or misbegotten ideologies above the common good.  There are enough people who are beyond this silliness to make things happen.  It would be nice if the rest would catch up, but we’ll manage just fine without them, if need be.

film about Bayard Rustin shows him as strategist and as logistics wizard for the 1963 March on Washington…the “I have a dream” MLK,Jr speech march.
Go see the documentary “Brother Outsider”. It shows not only Rustin’s contribution to the Movement, but disputes about strategy and the nitty-gritty of organizing, including whistle-stop speeches to inspire local activists and get press, getting the centralized organizations and the local activist communities to work together effectively, managing the March without mishaps – in the days before cell phones, tweets, computers.
Rustin was one of the deep thinkers of the Movement.

The opponents of LGBT rights are not and should not be defined by colourTheir unifying characteristic is a reactionary, selectively literalist bigoted opposition to our even existing.
They are anti-feminist, anti-hispanic, and in the end anti-black, even though some of the religious leaders supporting them happen to be black. It happens, some of the troops used to put down the 1916 Easter Rising were Irish.
Where would we all be without the late Coretta Scott King, who loved us in spite of ourselves? Or Bishop Tutu, who does as well? They helped ease our pain, they reminded us that we were never alone.
The architects of the Rove anti-gay campaigns based upon fear were two of our own, gay men Mehlman and Finkelstein. They created it and sold it to the ministers.
Harry Jackson, Big Oil apologist and carpetbagger, is black, but that is not why he lies about us and loathes us.
And lets not forget other racial stereotypes, such as NY State Senator Ruben Diaz, who said that gay rights was in direct opposition to Spanish Culture, while Spain has intergeated armed forcs and same-sex marriage. Apparently only the pentecostal Bronx is the measure of Spanish Culture these days, as is the phonomena of pushing the career of buddies who slash their girlfriends’ faces wih broken glass.
Remember what I said earlier?
Their commonality is nor race based but based upon a selectively literalist biblically based reactionary bigotry, anti-gay, anti feminist, and for those who sell out to the GOP, truly anti-black, anti-woman and anti-hispanic.

Proving my pointLook at the list of leaders signing a letter opposing our rights:

WASHINGTON (BP)–Southern Baptist ethicist Richard Land and other religious leaders Dec. 6 urged Americans to stand together in protecting the traditional understanding of marriage for the good of society….
Among those joining Land in signing the letter were Leith Anderson, president of the National Association of Evangelicals; Timothy Dolan, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and archbishop of New York; George Wood, general superintendent of the Assemblies of God; Harry Jackson, bishop of the Fellowship of International Churches; and Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference.
Others endorsing the letter included leaders of the Anglicans, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Wesleyans, General Baptists, Jews, Mormons and Sikhs.

Post Info About Similar Resource As ‘Brother Outsider’Thanks NancyP,
That’s sounds like a good film.  I’m looking for it now.  If anyone knows any resources similar to this they should post something about it.  I’d certainly love to hear about it

Pam, are you suggesting that the Republican Party is better because of Michael Steele’s position?I agree that there are issues with major GLBT organizations not being appropriately represented by non-white people.
However, there shouldn’t be tokenism, either.  A fool who is a member of a racial minority is still a fool.  An incompetent leader who is a member of a racial minority is still an incompetent leader–and both of our political parties are now suffering from that.

My point is Alvin, kev, and Pam didn’t choose their race or orientationBOTH people of color, and LGBTs know that is a FACT.
The individual Alvin, the individual kev, and the individual Pam have been forced into a clash of groups that have nothing to do with themselves or anything they control. Despite that, all three have been generous and kind and patient in explaining to both communities from a perspective of having one foot in each group. I don’t see the generosity, kindness, or patience being returned to them. All three are also willing to risk angry responses from people of color or LGBTs for giving us frank criticism.

Thank you, peteyand even though many folks here don’t care for SciFiGeek because he identifies a lot more with one identity, I think that his insights do have occasional value as well.
And I know from personal experience that navigating the two identities is not easy nor do I do it perfectly; I do it as best as I can at a given point in time.
For example: I don’t go to a black church (or any other church on a regular basis). Yet why did I feel that I, personally, was being held accountable for what some…many black ministers and pastors do and say?

anytime kevNONE of us navigate our identites perfectly, that’s why we like and accept each other….skinny legs and all.
Joe Tex – “Skinny Legs And All” on Upbeat! (Live!)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…