WTF.A private recognition that the military has to be funded – and will be funded – regardless of the passage of this or that particular aspect of the bill is a realistic political awareness.
But for an advocacy group to publish a statement that is in essence, “Hey, what we’re all about isn’t particularly important, feel free to ignore us” is disgusting.
If I were a member or a contributor to either group, they would have just ended my participation.

I just don’t get it.I’m shaking my head – what “strategy” is this other than undermining every other effort going on? And so how are the rest of the groups going to respond?  

I agree with you Pam.Of course the military must be funded and it will. That is the only carrot we have to get the repeal passed. If you give $$ or support to either of these groups I suggest you stop now.

It depends on how you look at it…The idea being that these particular groups and who they represent would sacrifice DADT to ensure that the military is funded could be seen as a honorable act (their willingness to sacrifice for a greater goal…etc.)
Other groups could and probably will respond by noting that there is no honor in closeted service, the military will continue to get rid of vital personnel, etc.
Maybe there’s a bit of “inside-outside” action going on here.

They’ve got it backwards.1. Bill Clintons DADT should be repealed.  
2. Bills to fund the murder of children and their families in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, aka “defense authorization” bills should be voted down. Instead of murdering children for oil we should be spending trillions greening the economy and infrastructure.

“WAR is a racket. It always has been.
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small “inside” group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.” USMC Commandant and Major General S. M. Butler.

3. Nobody should enlist in wars to enrich the military industrial complex. That’s especially true for GLBT folks who should, but often don’t, see the connections between our subjugation to bigots and the subjugation of colonial peoples to racists like Obama, Congress and the Pentagon.
If you’re not in don’t enlist, don’t fight and don’t translate. If you are in join and build the GI antiwar movement.
4. The real solution for all questions regarding DADT is to ramp up efforts to demand the total, immediate and permanent withdrawal of all us military, ‘security’ and mercenary forces to US home bases followed by total demobilization.
Democrats and Republicans can’t and won’t do that. Socialists can and will do that.
For now we should oppose enlistment, oppose the violence against GLBT soldiers by the bigoted christer officer corps and oppose Obama’s four (and counting) colonialist wars against Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

We are not all the same.It’s funny. These people would back the removal of DADT repeal in order to pass the Defense Authorization Bill, whereas I would back the removal of DADT repeal if that would help to defeat the Defense Authorization Bill.
Some of us value war more than our own rights. Others of us, peace.

WHAT SHEEP!Do they really hate themselves that much?  This is unbelievable!!  How the hell do they think DADT repeal will pass in 2010 outside of the Defense Authorization Bill?  HOW!!!  Show me the path!  

Getting FB responses to…TRAITORS?? and sharing. My we have really wimpy LGBT military! They actually have been brainwashed enough to think NDAA won't pass with repeal in it. That the U.S. won't fund its entire military budget??  They couldn't be harming their own cause more by being the GOP mouthpieces they are.

I supposethis could be defended on very simple grounds:  DADT is not going to be repealed anytime soon.  These two groups are implicitly acknowledging that fact while most of the rest of our community is still calling the White House and Harry Reid’s office to ask them if they won’t please, please, pretty please, be nice to us.  They won’t be nice to us, not now and not ever, if we don’t retool and adopt a tougher strategy.  The political, play-nice horse is dead, folks; why keep beating it?
As much as the assimilationist, HRC crowd likes to decry ACT UP, the incontrovertible fact is that ACT UP got results.  I can’t imagine either Knights Out or Outserve going along for the ride, but it’s really time for our community to wake up and start being as aggressively disruptive as ACT UP was, back in the bad old days when AIDS hit us and St. Ronald refused to even acknowledge it.  Disrupt, make trouble, foment, agitate! Nothing short of that will get us the equality our nation promises (on paper but never in fact).

Because everyone knows thatthe Def Auth bill sans DADT will will be a real struggle to get passed without the advance capitulation of anti-DADT groups.
Cripes, no wonder we are losing!

Except that they formed in the first place to repeal DADTSo this makes no sense whatsoever.  

I see a cultural misunderstanding.OutServe is composed of active duty (most likely senior) NCOs and Knights Out are all Point “Ring Bangers”, active, retired and academics. In both cases, the greatest cultural issue is what is happening now and will happen soon at the “point of the spear”.
Nothing… Get it please… Nothing is more important than the blood and well being of all the People who are (whether you like it or not) the projected power of American foreign policy.
The message is…Politicians may be willing to risk lives to score political points, but the lives of all those who serve should not be risked for the sake of pandering; in the opinion of those who benefit from the repeal.
Shorter version: Repeal of DADT should not be part of an authorization bill. If you won’t separate the issues, then know that bullets are more important rights at the moment. Over.
Roger That.      

and meanwhile kids are killing themselves because of trickle-down discriminationIt’s all a matter of perspective.

WTF indeedThis is what is going to happen anyways. With or without their doing. It’s not like the Democrats will fight the Republicans over this. They have to know that.
There is absolutely no reason to actively campaign for abandoning any kind of repeal effort.

Some damage control from JD Smith of OutServe

THE FOLLOWING CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO JD SMITH OF OUTSERVE:
“Let us be clear on where we stand as we begin this lame duck session.  Nowhere do we call for repeal to be stripped from the NDAA. No matter what, we will be soldiers in this fight, and the real issue is this: while people like Senator McCain continue to demonize us as unpatriotic and disloyal soldiers, we will stand strong with our fellow military members.  Unlike Senator McCain, we refuse to abandon our comrades at a time when this country is dealing with multiple military conflicts. Senator McCain should be the target of the blame for the continued stalling and distractions during this process, and is responsible, ultimately, for perpetuating discrimination against gay and lesbian service members.
In the past few years on active duty, my greatest support has come from straight active duty service members.  They have stood by me when leadership tried to investigate me under DADT and risked their careers in order to protect me. They have been the rock of my support over the years. As a gay man and a proud member of the military, I have two dogs in this fight. It is incredibly painful to see how politicians – especially Senator McCain – will play politics with the lives of patriotic Americans, gay and straight.”

Pam, the reason the votes aren’t there –– is because the OWH and the Democratic majority in the 111th Congress sat on this issue. No lobbying, no advocacy, generals going before Congress with conflicting messages. They didn’t try. For two years.
Here’s the thing about political capital. It’s not like money, that can garner interest if it isn’t spent. It’s more like produce: it’s perishable. And this avocado is two years old.
Maybe the Palm Center is realizing this, or maybe they’re aware that the votes aren’t there and they’re making the best of it, or maybe someone threatened their funding. But it’s a longstanding period of organized neglect. It was a setup. A rigged game, or maybe a no-show game.
The whole point of FDR’s “Hundred Days” is because he knew he had to get things, a lot of things, done now. Instead, Obama spends all his time on HCR — and compromises that in every sense of the word.

NYC Coach: I don’t want another man on that track. Houston, what are you trying to do? Nobody’s gonna win this game!
Houston Coach: Game? This wasn’t meant to be a game. NEVER.
– “Rollerball”

And a follow-up statement from Palm Center’s Chriss Neff

“The battle lines for this lame duck session of Congress have been drawn. On one side, we see gay and lesbian troops being loyal to their fellow service members as they are discriminated against every day, along with repeal groups who have tirelessly invested nearly two decades of work to stop discriminatory discharges. They all understand duty and service to country.
On the other side, we see Senator McCain who is willing to abandon military readiness funding because his prejudice against openly gay troops is more important.
At the same time, our active duty troops understand that defense funding must move forward and OutServe should be commended for their principled stance in support of every service member no matter the outcome of the lame duck session.”

You guys have it backwards. Gay Republicans cut the dealI guarantee that it was Log Cabin and GOProud who cut this deal. The whole point of caving on DADT and passing the D.A. bill is to provide cover for Susan Collins and other moderate Republican Senators. This allows them to avoid going on record with another anti-gay vote. It is also to Boehner and McCain’s advantage to shuttle DADT repeal. By coordinating this cave-in, the gay Republican groups are also scoring a lot of points with the GOP hierarchy.  

It does make sense“…fund the aircraft, weapons, combat vehicles, ammunition and promised pay-raises for all troops…”
Remember that these are active duty troops.  Their first priority must always be the safety and security of Americans — especially American troops like the ones they work with every day.  Seeing this as an honorable act seems particularly true of KnightsOut.  What else would you expect from ring knockers?
Also let’s not forget who’ll be made the scapegoats if the authorization bill gets kicked down the road.
Speaking as a veteran, insisting on continuing to support the repeal while at the same time not compromising the war effort seems like a logical way to handle it to me.
And since it looks a lot like repeal won’t happen this year, why would they burn their bridges and (from a military POV) throw their comrades under the tank?  Taking the high road appears to be their best option under the circumstances.

YesAnd it makes sense from a military perspective.

caving never won any GOP respectI have no doubt about the plausibility of that scenario. Trouble is, the GOP leadership always seemed to regard caving as a sign of weakness. Bleeding in front of a shark. It’s a lesson Obama and Reid never learned.

“Nothing is more important than the blood and well being of all the People who are…the projected power of American foreign policy. “Unless they’re gay, huh?  Then, their well-being is just an inconvenient detail.
You want to know what’s “more important than “the blood and well being of all the People who are…the projected power of American foreign policy.”?  I can tell you in one simple two-word phrase: THE CONSTITUTION.  DADT is blatantly unconstitutional (as are all the other anti-gay laws the country has passed).  If the nation is willing to sacrifice the constitutional principles it was founded on in order to “project its power,” then the very idea and the sterling ideal that was America is dead–not just for gay service members, but for all of us.

If they don’t want DADT repeal in the Defense Authorization bill . . . . . . there is a solution.  PASS and ENACT a standalone bill FIRST.
As for the military budget in general? It’s the primary reason that the United States is going to hell in a handbasket.  There is no earthly reason for us to have as large a military presence as we do in the world. We don’t need a 2-1/2 war strategy.  What we need is a large enough military to hold its own in a single war, but significantly understrength, with enough in the active reserves to fill in the holes within a week of necessary.  It takes six months to get the nation onto a war footing if we need more.  The time for Cold War paranoia is over – We may have buried the Soviet Union in the late 1980′s but we are burying ourselves today – and the Chinese are going to be the big winners if we keep this up.  They already pretty much own us.
The spending in the last decade on Iraq/Afghanistan alone would have been enough to take care of social security and fund a single payer health care for all system.
While we’re focusing on making the military an equal opportunity employer, I think it’s way too much of a military in the first place.
Butter, not guns!  

Smedley ButlerI recognized that quote, from the man that the American Legion nearly foisted on the nation as a Mussolini-style dictator in the 1930′s but for General Butler’s honor as an American soldier. (He pretended to go along and then turned them all in – but the rich and powerful behind the coup never paid for their efforts.)
These days, the United States is in the thrall of corporatist politicians of – it’s not just Republicorp out there its RepubliDemoCorp.  Those with the money line all the pockets and pull all the strings, at least when it comes to getting into and staying in office.  And with the corporate coffers unleashed, it’s only going to get worse.
Dwight Eisenhower warned us about the military-indistrial complex.  They own the country now.
Darn. It looks like I’ve become what the McCarthyites used to call a “fellow traveler” these days.  The problem is that our military spending is killing us. It is way beyond what a smaller-government libertarian type should want, either.  You don’t have to be a socialist to want a smaller military.

Then maybe we should just stop funding the wars If the Defense Authorization Bill gets killed because there is a threat of a filibuster over DADT, I would not cry about it. Let John McCain and the rest of the bigots take responsibility for killing the military.

Call McCain’s bluff!He thinks the LGBT community is just a bunch of wilting pansies.  We should show him that these pansies don’t wilt!
I joined ROTC in 1973 because Nixon abolished the draft and if we were going to have avolunteer military, someone has to volunteer.  That was a matter of civic duty.
I was RIF’ed in 1975 before commissioning – by that point in time, post Viet Nam, a third of the potential butter bars had to be dropped.
I support a right-sized military, not the awful bloat of a 2-1/2 war strategy, and not the aggressive warmongering we’ve been doing for a decade or more.  I support a military that is composed primarily of citizen-soldiers, and a more universal training scheme.  We need to take advantage of the second amendment, and require training and service from everyone who wants to own a gun between the ages of 18 and 60 – for the privilege of owning that milspec bit of weaponry.  The only available firearms should be regulated by military specifications as to uniformity of ammunition at a minimum.  There is a lot more – but none of that is in the Derfense Authorization Bill.
America may have killed the Soviet Union by outspending it, but now we’re just killing ourselves, while that jackal Osama bin Laden smiles from his mountain retreat in Pakistan.

The LGBT movement swings hard rightIt’s a tragedy that when we were ashamed, in the closet, mentally ill and powerless, we still had the political conscience and principle to know there are some things you don’t compromise on.  LGBT people should show solidarity with all oppressed people.  That’s why the Gay Liberation Front consciously named itself after the enemy’s of US imperialism, the Vietnamese Liberation Front.  40 years ago, LGBT people realized the greater enemy was here at home and not thousands of miles away.  Imagine today if the new groups that popped up after Prop 8 had taken names like “Faggot Al Qaeda” or “The Pink Taliban”.  
To paraphrase Muhammed Ali, no Aghani ever called me a faggot.  
Today, we regurgitate the war-makers cliches about “serving our country.”  What right do you have to “serve” a country that sees and treats you as less than equal?  Would you give your life for a country that won’t give you the right to marry the one you love?  What cause for celebration.  Now LGBT can kill and be killed for oil and empire just like the straight brothers and sisters!  Now LGBT soldiers can share with their straight brothers and sisters being denied proper medical treatment, horrifying abuse, suffer PTSD and be forced to go AWOL to get treatment!  Now LGBT soldiers get to see what torture, rape, and war crimes look like up close and personal!  Now queer partners will be able to share the anguish of their loved ones coming home and being forever changed by the horrors he or she has seen or even taken a part in.
I fight for the right for LGBT people to live and work free from discrimination and hostility.  I fight for the rights of LGBT soldiers already in the military, already suffering from discrimination.  I do not fight for anyone to take up arms against others.  
Soldiers at Fort Lewis Fed Up With Mistreatment
For Immediate Release
November 2, 2010 JOINT BASE LEWIS MCHORD, WASHINGTON – An anonymous group of soldiers in 4-9 Infantry Brigade have released a statement detailing how the Army drove one soldier to suicide. It details the humiliation that soldiers who seek help for mental problems face from their superiors. This comes on the heels of a rash of incidents involving soldiers from JBLM who had untreated mental issues, including one soldier who shot a police officer in Salt Lake City, UT. The letter reads:
“On March 17, 2010, Spc. Kirkland returned home from his second deployment to Iraq. Three days later he was dead-killed by the Army. Spc. Kirkland was sent home from Iraq because the burden of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder became too great-so much that he wanted to take his own life. Many of us also struggle with the effects of PTSD, which is a completely natural, human response to what we are exposed to overseas. It is not a sign of weakness or cowardice, but the inevitable result of serving in combat. It is a burden we all share, and we all deserve adequate treatment and understanding for the sacrifices we have made.
Upon returning home, Spc. Kirkland was not more than three steps into the barracks before the acting First Sergeant publicly ridiculed him, calling him a “coward” and a “pussy,” knowing full well that Kirkland was suffering from severe depression and anxiety. He was then carelessly assigned to a room by himself, and like every other soldier with PTSD, given substandard care by Army mental health doctors. Forty-eight hours after he was in the care of 4-9 Infantry, he was dead. Spc. Kirkland had a wife and young daughter. Before his blood had even dried off the floor, our respected leadership was already mocking his death.
Spc. Kirkland did not kill himself. He was killed by the Army. The Army inadequately treats PTSD, while it re-enforces a culture of humiliation for the soldiers who suffer from it. Spc. Kirkland was accused of faking his trauma. PTSD is a legitimate medical condition that is unavoidable in a combat zone. As soldiers who lay down our lives every day, we deserve adequate treatment for the wounds we receive in combat. We deserve to be treated for PTSD just like we would for a bullet wound or shrapnel. Spc. Kirkland received the opposite. But what happened to Spc. Kirkland is not an isolated incident. This is happening at such a high rate in the Army that it is becoming an epidemic. Now, more active duty soldiers commit suicide than are killed in combat. Every year, the number of suicides far surpasses the year before, and 2010 is already dwarfing last year’s numbers.
How has the Army responded? Scandal after scandal has broken out about Army officers ordering doctors not to diagnose PTSD; to instead deny veterans the care they deserve, pump them full of pills, and return them to combat. It has become Army policy to do everything possible to avoid diagnosing PTSD. And when it is diagnosed, the care is inadequate.
Throughout the Army, soldiers have to fight for simple medical care. The Army doesn’t care at all about us, our lives, or our families-and hundreds of us are dying because of it. We are denied care because the Army needs bodies to throw into two quagmires, and because the VA doesn’t want to pay us the benefits we deserve. Maj. Keith Markham, Executive Director of 4-9 Infantry, put it very clearly in a private memo to his platoon leaders: “We have an unlimited supply of expendable labor.” That’s what we soldiers are to the Army and the Officer Corps: expendable labor. Spc. Kirkland was expendable, and we witness that fact every day. But soldiers all over the Army are standing up. At Ft. Hood, the base with the highest number of suicides, protests have been held both outside the base and in the hospitals, consisting of active duty soldiers demanding better treatment. All over the country soldiers are organizing in their units to fight for adequate care. The Army will never give us the care we deserve unless we force it to do so. As soldiers, we have rights. Mental health care is a right for the job we were made to do. We have the right to be adequately treated and compensated for PTSD-but the Army is not doing that, so we have the right to collectively organize and demand proper treatment.
Actual defense spending in the U.S. is over 1 trillion dollars a year. Most of that money goes into the pockets of defense contractors, while only a tiny fraction is allocated for mental health care. There are hundreds of billions of dollars for new fighter jets, or to open Burger Kings and KBR facilities overseas, but when extra resources are needed to combat a suicide epidemic, we only get scraps from the table.”
The Army has taken no disciplinary actions against the leadership involved with SPC Kirkland’s death. Nor has the Army released any statements regarding the circumstances behind the incident.
GI Voice, DBA COFFEE STRONG, is a veteran owned and operated coffee house for soldiers, veterans, and military families to speak out about their experiences in a comfortable and safe environment. We provide free GI rights counseling, veterans benefit advocacy, and PTSD counseling for soldiers and veterans. Coffee Strong is located 300 meters from the Madigan Gate of Fort Lewis at 15109 Union Ave. SW Ste B.
For more information please contact:
Seth Manzel
Executive Director
GI Voice, DBA COFFEE STRONG
253-228-8912
http://www.coffeestrong.org
Wilfred Owen (1893-1918)
“Dulce et Decorum Est ”
   Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
   Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
   Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
   And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
   Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
   But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
   Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
   Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
   Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! — An ecstasy of fumbling,
   Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
   But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
   And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
   Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
   As under I green sea, I saw him drowning.
   In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
   He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
   If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
   Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
   And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
   His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
   If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
   Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
   Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
   Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, –
   My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
   To children ardent for some desperate glory,
   The old lie: Dulce et decorum est
   Pro patria mori.