What has bothered meis the number of people who are attempting to dismiss Wei and Ravi’s behavior as just a predictable youthful prank and urging that they be spared serious consequences for it. If Tyler Clementi had been killed in an automobile accident where one of them was driving under the influence of alcohol, would they be so ready to dismiss it? Tyler Clementi’s life is being dismissed as collateral damage just like the people who have been bombed to smithereens.

WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!1!!Why is it that bullies consider it their sacred right to harass, torment and drive people to their deaths, and then scream “FOUL!” when called on their actions?
Wei’s “plight” is the plight of a bully who refuses to take responsibility for the consequences of her actions. She is not being “shamed” by the media, she is being exposed as the heartless bully she is.

Absolutely notGiven the total lack of remorse they continue to display and the fact that they are getting off with a slap on the wrist for being directly responsible for the death of an innocent human being, we should not entertain for a moment the slightest shred of pity or mercy towards Wei and Ravi.

She’s lucky she’s conventionally attractive and gender-conforming.The corporate media wants to cheer for her since she killed a queer, but she’s already got one strike against her because she isn’t white.  If she were not conventionally attractive and in some way gender variant, they’d be burning her at the stake — if it weren’t for the fact she killed a queer.
Thanks for nothing, corporate media, once again.

They have only begun to sufferIt is very doubtful they will serve any jail time whatsoever. But this shouldn’t deter all of us from making their lives a living hell. No matter where they go, no matter what they do, their crim shoudl be brought forth and made known to everyone they come in contact with for the rest of their lives. They should not be able to hold jobs, or stay in one place for any length of time. They are Pariahs — and should be treated as such.
Without end.  

Answers to your questionsIs her “plight” something to feel sorry for?  Absolutely not.  Should we feel sorry for her?  Perhaps.  I maintain that while there was streak of anti-gay in this behavior of hers, it’s was much more a voyeurism-based behavior, and it’s typical of kids who are sharing absolutely everything about their lives online.  In this case it was extra titillating because it was a gay kid.  Too many young adults this age group – and Wei is an example – can’t tell where the line of what is and is not appropriate to share online is so they know not to cross it.  And that’s a colossal parenting failure.  So maybe we should feel sorry for her, that she wasn’t raised better.
Media shaming is wholly appropriate.  The more of it, the better.  Parents clearly aren’t doing it, so someone should.  And if the result of that is less behaving like everyone’s life is a 24/7 reality show, all the better.
In absolutely no conceivable way does this diminish what happened to Tyler Clementi.  But it might help explain it.  Let’s hope it helps change it for others.

Careful.They most certainly did not “murder” Tyler Clemente. Nor is it really accurate to say that they are “directly responsible” for his death, in the same sense they would be if the prank they played on him actually killed him.
What they did was illegal in a lot of ways, and it is directly contrary to the student rules that they agreed to follow as a part of being at Rutgers.
And yes, there’s little doubt that it was the final straw and proximate cause that led to Tyler choosing to kill himself, and that certainly needs to be taken into account. It is certainly more than something like negligence, but shouldn’t be talked about as though it was murder.
For one thing, talking about it as though it was murder actually serves to make it more likely that they’ll get off, or get off lightly, because it moves public support behind them. Because the public is very digital. If they aren’t guilty of what they’re being said to do, they must be innocent. Of everything
I don’t know the legal terms, but this is certainly a case of criminal harassment, and illegally streaming video of someone who had expectation of privacy with an intent to embarass him, and to the degree that it was motivated by his orientation, may deserve hate crime consideration.  It was definitely a form of bullying.  And yes, it was clearly premeditated, but it wasn’t murder.  

Hold the phoneSo bullying and cyberbullying are okay, as long as the target is a straight girl and her family? Forget innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, let’s just dogpile the bitch? If Ravi and Wei are found guilty, then they’ll be punished, and they’ll be punished according to the degree in which they were involved in Tyler’s decision to kill himself — but remember, it was TYLER’S decision to kill himself. Ravi and Wei might — MIGHT — have contributed to that decision (I have no idea what kind of case the prosecution is making and what evidence the case is based on since my only knowledge of the case is the untrustworthy mass media), but Tyler was the one who made the decision and followed through on it.
It’s really disappointing to see a mob mentality take hold in parts of the gay community. We should be better than this.  

Also to add…Making the case that Wei and Ravi “murdered” Clemente also serves the purpose of getting everyone else off the hook. If it is “all their fault” then it isn’t anyone else’s.
All the other bullies, all the people who made fun of him in comments on the video stream, everyone else who pushed him around, made fun of him for being musical or sensitive (read, “fag!”), passed laws or made political speeches or preached sermons against him, all the faggot jokes and “not man enough” comments, and any previous bullies, overt or not, just walk away perfectly innocent, conscience clear.
It’s like a game of Russian Roulette, but with everyone playing pointing the gun at some gay kid. Whoever actually fires the bullet is the guilty one, and all the others are pure and innocent and don’t have to even bother their consciences. You can bully anyone you want, and as long as they don’t kill themselves, no harm, right?
Bullshit.

No Consequences?I’m very much in favor of “innocent until proven guilty,” but in the case of Ravi and Wei, there’s no doubt of their involvement in the “prank” that led at least in part to Tyler Clementi’s suicide.  I’m not going to say they should suffer forever, but there’s one thing that seems to be sliding past in a lot of the commentary on this:
The idea that they should get a pass because it was “just a mistake” is ludicrous.  Quite aside from questions of trivializing Clementi’s death, if people (say, Wall Street bankers, or college freshmen) can make “mistakes” without any consequences, who has a chance to learn anything?  (Except, of course, that “mistakes” carry no penalties.) And if no one learns anything from it, how do we expect them to change their behavior?
What Ravi and Wei did was brutally unfeeling, and no matter what consequences they face under the law, the very least that they deserve is loud public condemnation.  If Molly Wei feels that she’s being attacked, maybe someone should point out to her that she deserves it — she was involved in something reprehensible that at least in part caused the death of another human being, one who she and her pal had treated like dirt.
But it seems as though she still doesn’t really understand what she did.

In the law, you take your victim as you find him.  
It’s not murder.  But it is barbaric behavior, uncivilized, and  completely unacceptable.  Because we know what happens.

What happened to Phoebe Princeis likewise unacceptable, and the kids involved in her death are facing life altering charges, as well.

…my thoughts exactlyWei and Ravi will likely get off with a slap on the wrist if folks don’t start looking at this as a “sex crime” rather than trying to make a case that this was a “hate crime.”
If they had placed a webcam in a bathroom stall, a locker room, or a shower to “peep” on any other student… they would likely already be expelled from school, sitting in jail facing certain conviction, and would be registered sex offenders.

Yes it was a prank, butit is a prank that led to tragic results.  By analogy say a couple of college students loosen the top step of a flight of stairs and put grease on the handrail because they think it would be funny to watch someone fall on their ass.  But then someone trips and falls down the stairs and dies of a broken neck.  
Did the “pranksters” intend for their victim to die?  No, they just thought it would be funny to watch them fall and be humiliated.  
Did they commit murder?  No.  But a reasonable person would conclude that incredibly poor judgment leaves them culpable of something like voluntary or constructive manslaughter, “based on the doctrine of constructive malice, whereby the malicious intent inherent in the commission of a crime is considered to apply to the consequences of that crime. It occurs when someone kills, without intent, in the course of committing an unlawful act. The malice involved in the crime is transferred to the killing, resulting in a charge of manslaughter.”  [thanks, Wikipedia].
If they are charged with voluntary manslaughter and the prosecutor can demonstrate anti-gay bias, then Wei and Ravi could go to jail for a very long time.  Given their immaturity as demonstrated by a lack of remorse and unwillingness to take responsibility for their despicable actions, my personal attitude is throw the book at them.

That’s a really good pointAnyone know what New Jersey’s laws are on peeping toms recording activities in a locker room, bathroom or changing room in a store?  Given that these locations and a dorm room share a reasonable expectation of privacy, there’s another option for prosecuting these two under existing laws.

they refer to Wei as “quiet,” “sweet,” and “smart.”Let me quote my favorite bit of Shakespeare:

A man may smile and smile, and be a villain.

If we’re going to judge by how “sweet” a person appears, then we’d have to conclude that Baby Face Nelson wasn’t really a vicious killer.
And I really love this bit:

She’s really upset about this, she definitely feels bad, and wishes it didn’t go the way it did.

 She and her pal committed deliberate criminal harassment against another student, against another human being (though I doubt that they saw Tyler that way).  How exactly did she think it would go?  How could she possibly have expected anything good to result?

Hold your own phoneRefusing to associate with someone whose behavior you find reprehensible is not bullying.  If these two creeps had simply decided not to associate with Tyler because they didn’t approve of his gayness, there would be no problem here.  They went way beyond that–to the point of committing criminal harassment against him.  And as for “innocent until proven guilty,” no one, including the two perpetrators themselves, is denying they did this.  Whining that she “wishes it didn’t go the way it did” is a long way from a plea of innocence; it is in fact a tacit admission of guilt.
Avoiding someone who has committed a reprehensible act, refusing to associate with her, shaming her for what she did is not bullying.  Molly and her scummy pal are the criminal bullies in this case.  What can you possibly think we have to gain by forgetting that?

…I spoke too soonApparently New Jersey doesn’t recognize “peeping” as a sex crime…
http://www.nj.com/news/index.s…

She got it right: http://kateharding.info/2010/1…

No doubt about their guilt, but…I do have to wonder if folks might be assuming a little too much about their “intent.”
Frankly, I’m inclined to believe that had Clementi been straight, his perverted college roommate would have likely still secretly watched him having sex.

Hold my own phone?Your reply indicates that you didn’t even read my post; you’re “refuting” points I never made.
Again: Bullying this girl and her family is wrong. Beside bullying being wrong no matter who the target is, in this case we don’t have all of the details and we shouldn’t trust the media on this issue any more than we do on other issues. If Wei is convicted in court I think that is when it’s appropriate to shame her — and her alone, not her family. Also, there’s a huge difference between shaming (“I hope you’re ashamed of what you done,”) and bullying (“I hope you burn in hell you evil cunt!”) that is being missed by her critics.
Making Wei the stand-in for all the people who treated us like crap as children isn’t right.

Boo hoo, boo hooThe little monster will have to live with the consequences of her actions for the rest of her life. At least she’ll have a life. Tyler Clementi won’t.
I’ll save my tears for someone deserving of them. Like Tyler’s bereft family and friends.

The dark side of fame….So, let’s see. Wei is upset because everyone’s attacking her. Her picture is everywhere, and her characer is universally maligned. In short, she’s humiliated. She’s become an involuntary internet celeb, and doesn’t like it very much. But, isn’t this what she and Ravi did to Tyler Clementi? By posting the video of their housemate without his consent, weren’t they trying to turn him into an involuntary internet celeb, to humiliate him?
Karma is a bitch, Ms. Wei, and poetic justice such as this is even worse. But ya’ gotta admit: it’s sorta fitting, ain’t it?

Feels attackedThe poor, poor, darling  –  bless her little heart!
She “feels attacked”.  Her privacy is being invaded by the big, bad, media  –  why, she “lives the life of a fugitive”.
What crass, crude, selfish, insensitive, people we are raising.  How entitled these children brought up with every advantage  –  except compassion, empathy, and understanding  –  are.
Destroying a life is a mere “prank”.  Driving a talented young human being to suicide deserves nothing more than, “I wish it didn’t go the way it did”.
Neither of the two “quiet”, “sweet”, and “smart” young people will do a day in jail.  Both will wait umtil the uproar dies down.  Both will walk.
They committed murder.  They both knew they were killing something  –  even if it was just Clementi’s reputation, and his future in college.
There has to be some sort of punishment  –  and not just “karmic”.

maybe, given a convenient opportunity, he would havebut Ravi–in order to make the decision to place the cameras and put the video on the ‘net–needed to regard his roommate as less than a fellow human being.
Why did Dharun Ravi have the idea–and take the actions–which were calculated to inflict maximum humiliation? Because he felt contempt toward Tyler. For being gay.

Not necessarily.wewannawii has a good point.
Assume Ravi had done this and Tyler Clementi had been with a woman, and then committed suicide.  Would it be any less bad?  Ravi had a “convenient opportunity” regardless of Tyler’s sexual orientation.
Intent is important, and you cannot (IMO) legitimately separate Ravi’s actions from the share-everything-on-the-net, no privacy world he grew up in.  He didn’t have to regard Tyler as less than human – he simply had to regard Tyler’s privacy as optional.

Ravi and Wei were looking to be an internet sensation…
They clearly succeeded beyond their wildest dreams!
They are world famous now and will probably never be forgotten.

“Why did Dharun Ravi have the idea…”…you ever see “American Pie”?

This most certainly is NOT murderand its not even manslaugher. Nothing that these two people actually did CAUSED someone to lose their life.
Tyler Clemnti made a choice to end his life rather than deal with the consequences of a stupid prank.
Come what may, that’s not their fault.
People are piling on here and its kind of worrying.
If a person’s boss chastizes them at work and then the person kills themself, is the boss responsible for the death?
Individuals cannot and should not be held responsible for the things that other people consciously choose to do.
Humiliating someone is NOT illegal.

As for “refuting points you never made,”that just might be because you never made any worth refuting.
And as for not reading your comments, you probably ought to make certain you read the original posting before you go off on a rant.  There is exactly NO evidence of anything that could reasonably be characterized as bullying.  The operative statement is that “She feels that everyone is attacking her.”  There’s a big difference between feeling like your being attacked and actually being attacked.  Molly is unhappy that people are holding her responsible for what she did.  Oh, poor, poor Molly!  She has a right to do atrocious things and not have anyone notice!  Molly is unhappy that her atrocious act has resulted in media attention.  Poor, poor Molly!  The big bad media should just ignore what she did, even though it’s an important story!
Yes, Tyler Clementi made the decision to end his own life.  But if you seriously think that Molly and Ravi should not be held accountable for their role in driving him to that decision, might I respectfully suggest that you’re on the wrong blog?

(remembering to breathe)@SH: in conversation with a friend about the case, I made the same point you did. That it would have been a terrible thing to do, regardless of the sexual orientation of the couple on camera.
So yeah, I’ll cop to being capable of seeing more than monochrome here, when I manage to hold down my impulse to call for retribution. I was bullied relentlessly, in awful ways (sometimes), for too many years: at home, at school and then in the office. And am trying to be rational about it…but it can be a struggle.
@www:That film? No.
I like to read and listen to music. Well…I do I have a TV but didn’t bother getting it upgraded to the new type of signals; I can only watch DVDs on it, which is fine.
When it comes to pop culture I’m, uh, disengaged. I do know who Lady Gaga is, although not until very recently.
I was blowing off steam. Sorry if (by replying to your post) it felt as if I were arguing with you.

But that’s the distinction.If you loosen the step and someone falls and dies, you directly caused it, regardless of your intent.
If you loosen the step, and someone calls the intended prank victim, who then gets so pissed off that they run their car off the road and dies, or does fall down and assumes someone else did it and beats them into a coma or any number of other outcomes. that is a different story.
I don’t know if “contributing to an attempted suicide” is a crime (as grisly as it seems, successful suicide can’t be a crime), or “accessory to self-inflicted homicide” or anything like that can apply. Certainly there’s room for a civil suit o the part of his parents.
But, as awful as this is, and as much as yes, absolutely, they did things that were morally reprehensible and definitely illegal, they didn’t kill him. And this is not the same as loosening a step so he fell. Manslaughter just doesn’t seem to apply. Tyler killed himself. I am not justifying what they did, but they didn’t kill him.

Criminal harassment is–does it need to be said?–A CRIME.Are you seriously suggesting these creeps should go unpunished?

“its just boys being boys, its what comes naturally”How many times did I hear that comment when I was in Jr. High and High School? How many beatings? How many times I was pants’ed? Or just shoved down in the hallway or in to a wall? How many ‘pranks’ did I have to endure???
Honestly, I didn’t bother counting. At the end of my 4th year in High School my Guidance Councilor told me and my parents I had missed 194 days of school. All of those were due to beatings or being threatened with beatings or worse than beatings. Some of those days I just hid at home afraid of what else they would do.
Out of my many tormentors, one was diagnosed with leukemia. I felt …a lot for him and his family. He did change near the end and asked for forgiveness. I gave it to him, and cried when he passed.  Another was jailed for assault against a bus driver and while he was in lock up was beaten mercilessly. When he returned to school he took up his old ways and one day he was hit by a car. I didn’t shed a tear.
So far, what I’m hearing of these two is that they have no regret over Tyler’s death. They only worry about themselves and how we see them.  …I really don’t see me shedding any tears over them.  

Not at all, CWMBesides, you’re welcome to argue with us.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective, and I can understand how it can be a struggle to be rational about it.

Once again, you put words in my mouthWei is not the only who treated you like crap in junior high. Get over it. Move on.
And speaking of Wei: I never said she shouldn’t be punished — IF she’s convicted in a court of law, as opposed to the lynch-prone court of public opinion. Again, you put words in my mouth. I guess that’s the only way you can argue. Pathetic.
Also pathetic? Your hypocrisy when it comes to bullying.

LOL.Someone has to put words in your mouth.  Otherwise you’ll keep spouting nonsense like this, denying that you said what you said quite clearly.  No, you didn’t use those exact words, and I never said you did.  But that was clearly the tenor of everything you’ve posted.  But sure, sure, if you deny saying what you said, that makes me a hypocrite.  Good one.

WowThe simple truth of the matter is that quiet and sweet and smart Wei and her friend Ravi betrayed their friend, they invaded his privacy and bullied him off the George Washington Bridge.  With their actions they might just have well pushed Tyler off the bride.  
I don’t feel sorry for her feeling stalked because by her actions she denied Tyler the ability to ever feel optimistic. I’m also not convinced that she is “sweet” and “smart,” her actions reveal that she has very poor judgment and a lack of loyalty to a classmate and friend. She and Ravi have thrown countless lives into chaos including their own.  

I’m not suggesting that in any way whatsoever.They should absolutely be punished for what they did. And one of the best ways to make that happen is to stop making a public outcry that they did something far more extreme that will be dismissed.
They should absolutely be convicted of criminal harassment. I keep saying that. But criminal harassment is neither murder nor manslaughter.
They didn’t murder him, and calling this murder pretty much means that they will get off. And if they do, they’ll get off completely. A jury only needs to have a reasonable doubt – and if the two guilty people get publicly pilloried for premeditate murder in the media, the jury will absolutely doubt that.
On the other hand, if this is discussed as premeditated harassment, stalking, violation of privacy, and criminal distribution of pornography without the consent of the person being filmed, there won’t be any question, and the fact that the victim took it so seriously that he took his own life pretty much guarantees that a sentence would be as harsh as possible.

Harassment is what they’ve been charged with.Where did you get the idea that prosecutors have charged them with murder or manslaughter?  Or will?  Jesus.

seeing asI drove home from fall break with friends over the bridge that Clementi had jumped from, and thinking about what really will make someone jump from such a tall height, I think she and Tyler’s roommate deserve a much harsher punishment than 5 years. She’s certainly not innocent, nice, or sweet in any way to have made someone go to such great lengths to end pain. In no way is what they did a “prank.” Absolutely not and it’s appalling.  

the problem is still how many people are judging her BEFORE the facts are known.This girl has been so maligned, and her guilt assumed, by so many its sickening. The level of vitriol and hate is staggering, not here, but all over the media. We, up to this point, have no idea what her role actual was in all this, so can’t we all wait and see what she is actually guilty of before we burn her for a witch and destroy another young life. Jeez…