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This kind of BS makes me sick. This is the lowest form of scum. If you haven’t reconciled your own masculinity issues, don’t work them out on a f*cking baby.
This violence occurred on the Shinnecock Indian Reservation (my people, btw; those involved in this incident are not Shinnecock) on Long Island, NY. (WPIX):
The suspect has been identified as Pedro Jones, 20, of South Hampton. He has been charged with first-degree manslaughter after allegedly hitting the boy “several times throughout his body with close fists” and grabbed him by the neck, according to the felony complaint filed by police.
Authorities say Jones also told them, “I was trying to make him act like a boy instead of a little girl. I never struck that kid that hard before.”
“He infiltrated my family through our trust, through the heart of my daughter and then stole the life of her child,” said the baby’s grandfather Daniel Collins. “I hope the justice system turns around and steals his.”
In the WCAX coverage of this murder, look at this:
As Jones was led away from the state police barracks, he told reporters that he loved the little boy.
Apparently for some people it’s never too early to “man up.” Our culture of rigid gender roles, as we see here, goes beyond the toxic to the tragic.
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Homohobia KillsDo we need more proof?
Those bigots who promote homophobia must be held accountable. The man (sic) who killed this child was not born bigoted. He had to learn his bigotry. My guess is some bible bigot got to him.
Sad. So very sad.
“I never struck that kid that hard before.” So he’s admitting the he had beaten the child before, only not “that hard”? Well, that makes it okay, then, right?
I hope they lock this bastard away and melt down the key.
Just patheticSadly, a lot of boys, both heterosexual and homosexual, who don’t fit the rigid definition of “man” get bullied by their male role models. Granted it usually doesn’t happen this young. While my knee jerk reaction is to hate the bastard that did this and want to go Vlad Dracula on his ass with the old impalement route, I think that he probably was bullied in his youth by male role models. He should not get out of jail for a long time and should never be allowed to be around children. Goddess help us all if he ever gets out and knocks some attention-starved woman up.
This society is really pathetic, and often it is helpless children and animals who end up paying the ultimate price.
“Homohobia Kills”Mmmm…..
“Authorities say Jones also told them, ‘I was trying to make him act like a boy instead of a little girl….’”
Transphobia, anyone?
BTW…
If anyone is wondering, this baby is NOT be the youngest victim of transphobia. That – not surprisingly – belongs to a murder victim in Texas:
He should be executed. He won’t be, but, along with prison he should be sterilized! And the mother, too, if she did nothing to try to stop it. But that justice won’t happen to them, either.
Shocked by my severity? Then, remember Ronnie Paris, the 3-yr. old little boy in Florida who was killed five years ago virtually the same way.
His parents noticed he’d gone into a coma from his latest “toughening up” beating while they were in a Bible Study meeting.
His “father” should have gotten the death sentence [spare me, Bleeding Hearts] instead of just 30 years. I bet THIS murdering “father” would have heard about THAT and thought twice about attempting the same “preventive cure” of homosexuality.
And Ronnie’s “mother,” who repeatedly witnessed the beatings, should have AT LEAST gotten the 30 years only got 5 years probation.
Not again?!?This is the second time I’ve read of a so-called “man” who murdered a little boy because he was afraid the boy was too “feminine” in his twisted mind!
I remember the murder of little three-year-old Ronnie Paris III back in January, 2005 and the same excuses this SOB gave are the same Ronnie’s father gave as to why he was beating him up! This father Ronnie Jr. was sentenced to 30 years in prison, and his mother was given five years probation for neglect.
Here’s hoping this bastard gets the same sentence.
I dunno, MichaelEven though it didn’t come out during the trial, how much you wanna bet she was cowed by Ronnie Jr. and told to keep her mouth shut because according to the bible, the wife is supposed to be submissive to the male.
Nothing will prevent you from continuing to try to hijack nearly every thread……
…but, no my dear, not EVERYTHING is trans-related.
Saying its a hijack doesn’t make it soYou lose again. Now move on.
What does a seventeen month girl even act like?I’m no baby expert, but I’m pretty sure gender specific behavior is minimal at that age, if it even exists.
I would call thisa shining example of how intertwined the two are.
I agreeI’d say it’s incredibly unlikely that someone able to beat a 17-month old to death would bother to make fine distinctions about whether he was trying to modify the child’s orientation or gender identity.
Nothing is served by infighting over this.
This is not a trans tragedy, nor is it a gay tragedy. This is a human tragedy that everyone gets to own.
I have no dataBut my guess would be either playing with dolls (or action figures not sufficiently masculine), or singing and dancing.
She very well could have….
…but if ever a line must be drawn it is in cases involving TOTALLY helpless children while she was an “adult”…at least in age if not mentality. The choices of both of them combined led to Ronnie’s death.
My point is that had the punishment for BOTH of Ronnie’s parents been severe enough, it might have generated the kind of national publicity that would have stuck in this religio-psycho path’s “brain” to the degree he MIGHT have thought, “Well, I don’t want my son to act like a little girl…but I don’t wanna die a lot more.”
There will always be some people committing some crimes regardless of what they know about potential punishment. But having an instance in my own family where the system failed two children, we must TRY. [In our case, two children of the husband of a cousin by his first marriage were abused by their biological mother. One was kept locked in a closet most of the time, resulting in her coming close to being "environmentally retarded," and definitely emotionally unbalanced for years. Her sister, who was used by her mother to sweet talk a string of men out of money, died at age 12 after taking some of her mother's pills. It was only after that that their father, who had failed repeatedly before, was able to convince a court to give him custody of his surviving daughter.]
And you use the same lame ass excuse….
…the REALLY pathetic thing is that you’re so dysfunctional you don’t get that it’s you who’s losing; that such nonsense has the exact OPPOSITE effect that you IMAGINE you’re achieving: you’re alienating potential allies for transgender equality not attracting them.
Or…It could be something that was completely imagined by the killer – or some combination thereof.
I suggest you look at the other comments – you know…the ones from reality?
Imitation behaviorThere is no gender specific behaviors at this age. Kids don’t know the difference between male or female yet, much less what is considered masculine or feminine in our f*d up society.
At that age, my daughter played with every toy we put in front of her – trucks, dolls, baseballs, etc. She had fun with them, that’s all she knew.
She turns three this month, and her big thing is imitation. If I make a face, she makes it too. If I make a funny noise, she tries to make it too. Babies and toddlers imitate the adults around them so they can develop a sense of self. My guess is that this baby boy was being raised primarily by his mother and other female relatives, and may have been imitating their behaviors. It didn’t mean he’s going to be gay!
In other words – sexismBecause that’s what both homo- and transphobia boil down to – the relentless desire for strict gender roles for all of society.
It’s hard not to weep when reading this.I know that with the wrong parent, guardian, or mother’s boyfriend, that could have been me. It’s hard for me not to empathize with this child; it’s hard for me not to weep at the evil of demanding all — especially children — conform to societal sex and gender norms.
I know too that this outcome could also could have been an outcome for lot of children who grew up understanding themselves to be gay, as well as for children who understanding themeselves transgender and/or transsexual.
Manslaughter here seems too weak a charge. This death actually strikes me as a probable hate crime, and should be procecuted as such if possible.
*sighs*And people wonder why I want to say fuck it and give up on humanity entirely. Idiots like this… it feels like they’re always going to outnumber us no matter what strides we may make.
I’m completely disillusioned with reality today. Waiting for folks like the NOM crowd to spin this to say there’s no blood on their hands. When we all know if NOM and FRC and AFTAH and the rest weren’t teaching people that being gay or trans is a sickness and a disorder going against Nature, shit like this wouldn’t happen.
……breathes to try to prevent excessive swearing and insults
You sir are a goddamned fucking idiot.
“I was trying to make him act like a boy instead of a little girl. I never struck that kid that hard before.”
That sounds like TRANS-Phobia to me asshole. Quit your gayjacking and leave your grudge against Kat at the door, A FUCKING TODDLER IS DEAD because he apparently crossed GENDER lines. Thiscase has TRANS-phobia written all over it.
God I hate humanity right now. EVERY time something horrible happens there’s always some mansplaining moron in the comments trying to dictate exactly what parts of it we’re supposed to be angry about.
Tough shit, I’m angry that a SMALL CHILD IS DEAD because a grown man was upset he acted LIKE A GIRL.
Enough said.
He is an excellent example of one reason why I oppose the death penaltyDeath is too good for people like him: anything that ends his mental suffering would be a favor. Let him spend the rest of his natural life meditating on what he has done.
WTFHow on earth does a 1 year old act like a girl? That is barely a toddler… What a sick bastard. Poor mother, though she too is partially to blame for letting that animal anywhere near her child. Seems like alot of these stories have the common trend of a boyfriend left to take care of a child.
Execute the bastard, a psycho like that will kill again if allowed to live, even in prison.
Exactly.And by corollary, it demonstrates pretty clearly how completely wrong people are when they claim the two issues are separate. Whether this pig thought the boy was gay or trans (assuming he thought at all, or could) is largely beside the point. Gay people, bi people, trans people, we are all part of one community, all stigmatized by not conforming to society’s gender norms.
I disagree that he should be executedKilling people who kill people does not show that killing people is wrong. And anyway, on the average, it costs less to sentence someone to life without parole than it does to sentence them to death: appeals in death penalty cases must be heard, leading to a tremendous amount of money spent in pointless judicial actions.
Let him live with what he has done. Let him spend the next 50 years remembering the jury foreman handing down the verdict, and let him meditate on why that verdict was “guilty.” As years pass, let him come to know that he will never again have the opportunity to murder his own child.
He doesn’t deserve to die: death would be too good for him.
Seriously, Michael?A child was murdered for acting too “girly” and it’s not a trans issue?
When did the rule come down that it’s hands-off for the trannies when it’s a story that the LGB community thinks could be big?
And no, I’m not trying to imply there was no homophobia at play, this is likely one of those times where the hatreds were intertwined.
But it seems to me a pretty sick thing to approach a tragedy like this with a “Mine! Hands off!” attitude.
Well, in the household I grew up in… all it took was crying.
The obvious right wing solutionto: it costs less to sentence someone to life without parole than it does to sentence them to death: appeals in death penalty cases must be heard, leading to a tremendous amount of money spent in pointless judicial actions.
is to just do away with all those “technicalities”. THEN it would be cheaper to kill ‘em all, by gum!
But seriously, the only reason I’m against the death penalty is there’s too great a chance that innocent people will be executed, despite all those safeguards. Even in a case as seemingly cut and dried as this, there’s a chance that he’s actually innocent. If we had a perfect justice system, THEN I’d be happy to kill the guy myself.
Mandatory ChildRearing Classes Anyone?Sick, sad, and way too common. The old argument about how you need a license to drive or hunt, but not to raise another human being is pretty relevant here. Not that it would help a boyfriend, per se, but information can be passed on.
How hard would it be to tie tax write-offs for raising dependent children to mandatory child development classes that would cover physical and cognitive development stages, the broad “normal” ranges of behavior, imitative play, etc.?
A monster will always be a monster – this won’t help the unhelpable. But in the case of some where ignorance is a bigger factor, maybe some of the gender role crap (as well as other crap) could be averted.
Unfortunately, I don’t think these people actually sufferthey just languish in jail. They have no feelings or they wouldn’t act the way they did in the first place. There is something intrinsically wrong with these people to begin with. I know, my father was one of them.
How about mandatory Child Psychology and Development DegreesIf you want to have children, pay up $25K a crack for the degree. Otherwise, free vasectomies.
I agreeDeath penalty. This is repulsive.
Incorrect.Everything is trans related. Everything is LGB related. Everything is related to race and to sex and to class conflict.
And until you, Sir, figure that out, you will keep making mistakes.
Then let him live with his liberty deprivedLet him live with the fact that he will never again see anything with his own eyes that does not involve concrete and bars.
GodIf you need to take a special class to teach you not to punch a toddler, maybe you shouldn’t have children in the first place.
Prime reason Theocracy is the biggest threat
Striking an infant aside, one can only fathom where this guy received his misguided views from. (I’m looking at you pulpit pundits.)
This person’s motive is sick sick sick. “I never struck her that hard before” Means this b@st*rd hit this child before.
“One mistake and I get 20 years.” I got no sympathy for this kind of scum.
What’s wrong with … you humans?“I was trying to make him act like a boy instead of a little girl. I never struck that kid that hard before.”
“As Jones was led away from the state police barracks, he told reporters that he loved the little boy.”
Yeah, he loved to hit and abuse the little one. Just how many times did he hit the little one before he found out that babies are fragile?
Just chain him up in the prison yard and let the inmates explain it to him.
Partially off topic but I have to sayhow proud I am that this thread has gotten so long without someone saying that he should be raped by another inmate as punishment.
I look forward to him…Spending the rest of his life acting the part of the woman in prison culture, especially after the other inmates find out he’s a child killer. He’s going to be someone’s prison bitch, no doubt.
I know we’re not supposed to be all schadenfreudy with the extra-institutional punishment meted out in the form of rape, but in this case, I can’t help it. The irony is too great.
*sigh* And this threadwas doing so well.
??????????
You left out their relationship to string bean casserole, denim, Elvis, funiculars, the hula hoop, Morse code, pet rocks, Barney Fife, the Yeti, and who really shot Kennedy.
Subjective interpretationI think notions of gender specific behavior are highly subjective. I once saw a female toddler wander over to a water meter and examine it with intent curiosity. Her father rushed up, grabbed her and carried her inside the house, scolding her along the way that this wasn’t something a girl should be interested in. I guess he was afraid next thing she’d put on overalls and drive a truck.
With respect, you’re making the same mistake HE did…
…making it about HIM…”live with what HE’s done. Let HIM spend…remembering…let HIM meditate….let HIM come to know HE…..HIS child….”
It’s NOT just about punishing or enlightening HIM….it’s about telling OTHERS….“Do what HE did and what happened to HIM will happen to YOU.”
It’s about TRYING to save the NEXT Roy or Ronnie from dying at the hands of his parent, the next 15 yr. old Lawrence King from being murdered by his 14 yr. old classmate [an instance in which LIFE in prison is appropriate], the next Gwen Araujo from being murdered by young men she knew, the next Simmie Williams, Jr., from being shot standing on a street corner in drag, the next Matthew Shepard being murdered by homophobic strangers, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
What part don’t you understand that laws exist primarily to PREVENT people from doing something “wrong” out of FEAR of punishment? AND that such fear is ALL that keeps millions of people from violating of all races and classes?
We can’t put a cop on every corner or in every home [tho there are Right Wing nuts that believe Obama WANTS to do the latter, a "soldier," that is] to prevent even universally agreed-upon crimes like robbery, rape, murder.
And most of Gay, Inc., abandoned “education” decades ago about the right of kids to be themselves whether it’s L, G, B, T, or I because there is nothing “wrong” with those states of being.
Nota bene: I believe capital punishment should require higher levels of proof that the accused is guilty. But, in this case, the father apparently convinced what he did [while denying "intent" to kill]. In the case of Ronnie Paris, his mother, aunt, and a family friend testified that his father beat him he “thought their son might be gay, and that he would smack the boy in the back of the head and slam him into walls because he didn’t want his son to grow up ‘soft’. ‘He was trying to teach him how to fight’.” ‘He was afraid the child might be gay’. ‘He didn’t want him to be a sissy’.”
AND, in Ronnie’s case, the record shows that the abuse started even earlier than this case:
PARENTING CLASSES? Ronnie was taken away from the couple after that 2002 hospitalization but returned to them two years later after they took “parenting classes.”
Maybe if, along with, “you must feed him,” it had included the information, “And we will punish you up to and including execution in proportion to your ever hurting this child again,” Ronnie Paris would still be alive.
Rape is never funnyVengeance rape is especially unfunny.
Killing people does not show that killing people is wrongAnd studies have shown that the threat of capital punishment is a poor deterrent: most people who commit heinous crimes like this either commit them unthinkingly, in the heat of the moment, or else expect to get a lesser sentence, or else believe that they will get away with it.
BULLSHIT!
It’s not to show others “it’s wrong”…it’s to show them THEY COULD DIE if they kill someone else.
“Poor deterrent”??? Regurgitated bleeding heart spin. PROVE NO ONE’s life has EVER been saved by it and THEN you’ll have a credible argument.
“Crimes like this”…again, your thinking process is drowning in Berry Bleeding Heart Kool Aid so you’re ignoring my documentation that the death of Ronnie Paris was NOT a “heat of the moment” crime, but repeated, premeditated actions over a period of years.
And Pedro Jones is quoted as saying,
“or else believe that they will get away with it”???
That’s EXACTLY what Ronnie’s father thought because he had.
Imagine those little boys screaming in pain and terror, trying to get away from the giant “parent” beating them and THEN telling me how caring you are.
Reporter heard him say he “…loved the little boy…”That’s what all the religious haters say to us, isn’t it? Sound familiar? If anyone doesn’t believe they want us dead, PAY ATTENTION!
Or believe they are doing nothing wrong.My father was very violent physically toward me. To summarize quickly and not draw this out: he was quick to judge and anger, making “first-blush” conclusions that were then proven in his mind, anything other than a confession fitting his theory was considered “being argumentative” and grounds for even further punishment. Physical punishment was the only tool he had* – hitting, kicking, hair pulling, whatever was accessible at the time.
“I’m just disciplining my child” was his claim. ”Abuse,” he’d say, “leaves scars or broken bones.” He did frequently complain about what he saw as overly permissive parents and would commit himself to being ever more strict as a parent, which became toward me only; his treatment of my brother was the sort of lenient parenting he ranted about. He truly believed, perhaps having successfully convinced himself, that what he was doing was within the bounds of a reasonable definition of disciplinary measures for children, and that escalating it was appropriate since it did not get the response he wanted (a matter that goes beyond the scope of this subject.) I believe, although I’m less sure of this, that he didn’t believe it was possible for such actions to ever result in death of the child.
* Other punishments, such as limiting or revoking privileges for a time, were impossible as I was never permitted any such privileges. He couldn’t very well prohibit me from going to school, and he wasn’t about to tell me I couldn’t go to church (the fight was always the opposite – forcing me) or not do farm work.
Please explain to me…How this is NOT trans related. A toddler was killed for supposedly crossing gender roles. It sounds like both homophobia and transphobia to me.
Judging by the response …… you’ve won that argument.
Man up?Unfortunately, Pedro Jones wasn’t acting like a real man, just a pathetic coward who knows damn well that a toddler would never hit back.
I could argue, as a feministthat his issue is as much femmephobia, as it is homophobia, or transphobia.
This is the kind of person that who hates anything that is perceived as threatening to the testosterone fueled right of dominance that he thinks is his.
This alleged right of dominance permits him: to beat any woman to submit to his will, to bash any gay or trans person, and apparently, to beat an infant to death.
You want schadenfreunde? May his god damn him to hell.
I would agree with that.There is a strong undercurrent of misogyny in most homophobia and transphobia. It doesn’t necessarily translate the other way, though.
Case in pointAnd, lest you forget, Michael, I am one of those people who, given the impetus and energy, could, in fact, make a line between all of those things. Knowledge is pretty amazing stuff that way. You should try it.
Just because it’s inconvenient to you doesn’t make it not trans related.
ANd let’s look at some really interesting facts, shall we?
Children who display variance in gender under the age of 13 are all classified generally under the rubric of GID. Give that some thought for a bit, will you? It would be good for you to do so.
Now, let’s draw that out further, shall we? Of those kids who demonstrate gender variance in youth, about 35% will end up being cis/het. About 60% will end up being bisexual, gay, or lesbian. And the rest will end up being somewhere along the spectrum of trans, with a tiny portion being transsexuals.
That’s historically. That’s the basis of treatments which are still considered ethical and end up with trans people being told that it’s better to be gay than trans.
Now, I realize it took you over a year in your efforts and advocacy on behalf of DADT to realize that you needed to include us in that, so I appreciate it, on a personal level, although you could have done it a lot sooner, like when we first pointed it out to you.
And I realize that you are having a hard time with this — and I don’t think it’s because you think that being gay is better than being trans.
But note, carefully, that gender variance in childhood — especially at only 17 months of age, which it he age we are talking about here — is, ultimately, an issue of gender expression, which, as so many like to remind us, Mary, is an issue of Trans identity.
Now that does not mean that it is not an issue of Gay identity — after all, many, many cisGLB adults were gender variant in their youth (which, I will remind you, makes them trans as kids), and the issues that surround sexism affect our populations to pretty much the same degree and in the same way.
SO while you could have said that it is also an issue of gay identity, to say that it is NOT an issue of trans identity demonstrates, on your part, a level of ignorance regarding trans people that you, personally, should be mighty ashamed of, because as a very outspoken critic of DADT who has finally realized that trans people are just as affected by the law and will be left in the dirt once it is ended, it behooves you to do your best to fight many of the issues that affect all of us.
What you are doing here, Michael, is called erasure. IT’s the same thing that’s been done to us surrounding DADT, surrounding marriage, surrounding employment, and even surrounding the shared history of the last 150 farking years that LGBT people have.
You don’t get to do it any more. Not on Kat’s watch, not on my watch, and you should be ashamed to see yourself doing it on your watch.
I might not be as physically strong as I was when I was a Ranger, but you probably know that I really don’t need to be to still be one.
Thank you.The Christians love us, but they want us dead.
In their own perverted logic, it makes sense, since we have been infected by Evil itself.
How many?How many deaths of people who either were innocent or should not have been eligible for the death penalty are you willing to accept in exchange for a theoretical deterrent effect? How many actual lives are worth a theoretical one?
I think for these purposesAny ‘femmephobia’ is in the (not uncommon) transphobic and homophobic context.
After all, it’s unlikely the boy was actually doing anything at that age: (Which certainly gives the lie to notions all this homophobia is about ‘hating a sin…’) Everyone knows the abuse starts long before anyone’s sexually-active, never mind can be expected to be all that butch or femme.
People do, however, start trying to ‘gender’ children almost immediately: the increasing religious hysteria and hatred can mean people are paranoid about every little thing.
I do think that’s a big part of why so many men from this kind of upbringing are insecure about their masculinity or sexuality or anyone else’s: they learn from a young age that non-conformity (And, really, failure to show enough aggression and insensitivity) is a threat to them, the threat being sudden and arbitrary abuse along the lines of ‘I love you so I’m going to try and obliterate your personality by ‘toughening you up.’ ‘
Abuse comes in cycles, and the homophobic and transphobic and misogynistic hate is a part of these cycles, which the ‘conservative’ churches are tapping into.
Too much of Christianity is in fact on the model of abusive families: they’re literally afraid that if anyone seems too queer it’ll set ‘angry wrathful loving father’ off. And certain kinds of preachers in fact stoke these fears to the limit.
Abhorrent that this extends to the point of killing children while trying to say ‘It’s gayness that abuses and kills children,’ when it’s clearly always been the other way around.
Don’t paraphrase: I SAID it likely wouldn’t help THIS case, or THIS boyfriendWhat I mean is, maybe that MOTHER could make some wiser decisions about who she did and didn’t trust with her child, what to look for, etc.
Maybe in other cases, parents would be more realistic about age-appropriate norms for children, letting them let go of the stereotypes they hold, and realize maybe that the way they were raised ISN’T the only or best way.
God dammit, zazu, I work with children and I’m a mom. I NEVER said my idea works for THIS case, but in the broader context of what the thread was discussing, more information is definitely good.
oh come on…You don’t need that to be a good parent and you know it. Classism much?
However, I know I had the benefit of a mom who’s worked with small children, and secondary ed classes that touched on child development (as part of religious family classes, etc.), and a generally nurturing home and school environment.
My family also has abuse survivors who have worked to not raise their kids as they were treated.
Look at what happens after deathin these “Christian” dogmas…being cast into a “hell” is about as abusive it gets on the part of a heavenly patriarch…
Kinda. Though the real abuse isn’t from the ‘casting’ …it’s the dangling. If they actually just ‘threw’ people into their ‘lake of fire’ and were done with it, they’d just find themselves on the grass outside the sheepfold.
The terror is about making people live in fear. Or as if they were.
Part of the problemBoth with that ‘God’ and the idea of ‘special classes’ instead of kinds of people is that it actually teaches that a toddler is not a ‘person’ unless you beat any ‘gay’ or non-gender-conformity, real or perceived, out of them.
It’s like how Christianity in Ireland turned folk beliefs about ‘Faeries’ into torture of infants and women and anyone ‘odd.’ Just as these Fundies do, they convinced people that if a child was ‘odd,’ too smart, spiritual, or yes, too queer, that meant that a child was not a child, but some thing that had to be held over fires or otherwise mistreated, so that the ‘real’ child would be brought back.
Kind of like Uganda, now, but with different context.
Sometimes people who claim to ‘love’ children commit horrors because they are taught they are not abusing a person, but ‘driving out ‘evil’ from a person.’
In less extreme-sounding situations, they are taught to think, not that they are abusing a ‘sensitive’ child for being sensitive until they get numb and angry and likely to pass on the abusive cycle, …they’re actually taught to believe that if they treat you badly enough that you’ll ‘toughen up’ and they’ll get the ‘real’ ‘normal’ child they are taught they were supposed to get.
‘Special class?’ Mother of the Gods, man. Class of what? We’re talking about nearly an infant here. Brutalized to death over an ‘idea’ that if he was feminine,he needed it beaten out of him.
I was talking about secular classes in child development.I have no idea where zazu was coming from. Then again, I rarely do.
I totally agree that the atrocities done in the name of religious conformity, esp. WRT to gender roles and sexuality, are absolute evil. As someone who does have religious faith, I see them as blasphemies to the human spirit and true spirituality.
And I’m not saying any class is a cure-all for abuse. But I do think many cases are more gray, arising from ignorance, apathy, and despair. More information, access to resources, and direct contact and support, etc. is never NOT a good thing for a society to provide.
Parental rightsI am not comfortable with some sort of government class that parents have to take. I trust the average parent alot more than I trust the average child care expert or bureaucrat. Child care is really not that complicated, illiterate goat herders in Afghanistan do it just fine.
I think 99% of people don’t really need such a course, and like you said, it will not help scumbags like this guy, so I wouldn’t bother.
Ghood Ghod!Mikey sweetie-pie…. I’m a transsexual lesbian!! I have absolutely NO attraction for men, let alone gay men.
I’d like to remind your privileged ass that if it wasn’t for two drag queens, Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P Johnson, not to mention the queens who staged the Compton’s Cafeteria rion in 1967, the TLBG rights movement wouldn’t be where it is today!!
Right now, there is a festival in Lodi, Michigan which has a policy of banning male-to-female transgenders like myself, while at the same time in the most hypocritical manner possible allowing female-to-male transsexuals on the land!
Ever since the gay liberation movement began, lesbians, transgenders, and LGBTs of color were second class to the white, affluent gay men, and still continues to this day!
Where are the LGBTs of color in HRC, GLAAD, et al? Why did “Uncle Joe” Solmonese throw transfolk under the bus in a vain attempt to get ENDA passed under Shrub?
Mikey, you need to get out of your $400 suit, drive a Ford or Chevy instead of your Beemer, and try and find a job here in Ohio, or Michigan, or the south where there are no protections for fags, dykes, trannies, et al!
Can I hear an A-woman?Right on, Rowan!! I agree with you 100% love!! >huggles<
I’d love nothing more than to drop an estrogen bomb on these areas of machismo and insecure “men”!
Not to be too abrupt, but…When someone kills a one-year-old for being ‘too girly’ and you lead with this:
and I quote:
“Nothing will prevent you from continuing to try to hijack nearly every thread……
…but, no my dear, not EVERYTHING is trans-related.
by: Michael Bedwell ”
…Are you actually saying that trans people are hijacking’ something about a toddler and gay sex? When their murderer says ’It was about geneder roles?’
I know violent straight dudes can’t tell the difference, but in many ways that’s all transwomen and gay dudes have in common.
I humbly submit that gay dudes getting indignant about transwomen knowing a thing or two about actual gender roles, especially then some think you’re us and we’re you and somehow no one comes out happy or well-adjusted….
May not be the proper response to baby murder over insufficient masculinity in someone who can’t pick out their own diapers.
What do you expect, that baby to say, ”I deny any association with the transgendered community, therefore please don’t kill me? ”
There is a differenceBigotry can’t tell the difference, which is our problem here. but it’s also life for all of us.
Do you think straight boys aren’t also raised in the same fear and identity-denial just because, well, hey, maybe they aren’t girls or terribly interested in gay sex?
To be quite honest, to my observation, if some churches and cycled of religious-based abuse didn’t mess up the straight boys like you wouldn’t believe, we wouldn’t have a homophobia and transphobia problem.
Messed-up as the world is, even straights don’t beat babies (or us, for that matter) to death without some kind of major malfunction.
Where’s the malfunction?
Failure of some to be held back from hate that the same people push?
Yeah. Probably.
Also terror.
I was abused by people who loved me. Religiously. They didn’t start off hating. They were afraid. Fear isn’t rational. Turns to hate later. But they were afraid.
And, I might add:Not so much afraid of me, but afraid ‘for’ me from a God that held them in terror. For themselves, me, everyone. Anyone but any humans in the world. Even the reality of their own children. This is not an issue about acronyms. It’s an issue of why people even need one.
If you don’t need it, then they should be a breeze for that “99%”…But sorry, it’s not that high. You’d be amazed how many otherwise-decently-educated folks are DAMN STUPID about age-appropriate behaviors. I trust the average parent IF they have experience with kids and realistic expectations. Or have someone around them who has. Otherwise, even the most well-meaning parents make stupid decisions, and too many parents aren’t thoughtful enough.
My mother teaches preschool in an urban environment, and has done so for 30 years. I’ve helped out in her classroom from time to time. In those short time periods, you should see the numbers of parents who 1) think that complicated clothing is the BEST choice for a 3 year old who’s barely potty trained, leaving teachers and caregivers to constantly deal with buttons, zippers, and overalls all day in the name of fashion, 2) how many parents expect a 4 year old to act 10, and wait in long lines or at church or for the bus with no books, snacks, or other distractions, or 3) expose their kids to things they shouldn’t under the erroneous idea that the kids won’t remember.
And that’s the innocuousm non-gender-related cases. I won’t even go into the more psychologically harmful scenarios.
This isAnd it obviously is.
Violence based on gender diversity by definition is Transphobia.
Ipso Facto.
Q.E.D.
Yes. Q.E.D.
Proof? Request granted.My country has no death penalty. Hasn’t for generations.
My country has less murders per capita than yours.
And that with a smaller proprtion of the population imprisoned in my country.
Yet with more of the country already locked up America still has far more murders than Australia.
Australia > America in crime prevention.
Our system works better than yours. I reccomend you copy it.
I never said there was no difference. There obviously is.What I said is that the two are clearly related, in a way that makes us all part of the same community. Isn’t that clearly the case?