APN’s cry for attentionForget the cultural insensitivity, APN appears to be a very obscure organization seeking notoriety through defamation and ill-tempered reactions to criticism.
Seriously!  @APNEditor has all of 48 followers on Twitter and less than 200 fans on Facebook.  Time and energy is better spent on bigger foes.

If you do, you’d be wrongRegardless of the label – and I agree with the article that “homosexual” is an offensive term because of the way it is used, there most certainly are people whose identity and emotional and erotic orientation are toward members of the same sex rather than toward the opposite sex.
When you reduce things to “homosexual acts” or “heterosexual acts” it denies the lived reality that I am just as gay when I am ordering a pizza or paying the bills as I am when I am in bed with my husband.
Adding to what makes your statement wrong is that it ALWAYS used in a context that implies that the only “homosexual acts” are explicitly sexual, and essentially plumbing-based (never about what’s going on in the head or heart), but that all other “acts” are inherently heterosexual. That the straight person paying the bills is still being heterosexual in some way that the gay person is not being homosexual.
Again, denying the lived experiences and testimony of actual gay and lesbian people in favor of an academic theory just proves Autumn’s point.

Go ahead and quote me on this! What do you expect from a bunch of redneck phobic ‘tards? They’d all like that over in Atlanta. Total ignorance. They watch that jerry springer to much. I would write an edtiorial againt they’re views and actions but they wouldn’t publish it… Even if they did publish it, they would have to find someone to read it to them.

This Blog Post is Biased, One-sided, and Bordering on AbsurdDear Autumn,
This has got to be one of the most biased, one-sided blog posts I’ve ever read, but I guess that’s how y’all do it here at Pam’s House Blend.  First of all, the chronology in your story is all out of whack.  Second, it is filled with your opinions and the opinions of your colleague as well as excerpts from AP and GLAAD.  You only post an image of APN’s editorial response to your concerns because presumably you want fewer people to read them, when everything else in the article is posted as normal text.  Nor do you engage intelligently, substantively, or at all, with any of our editorial statements in response.  If that’s what you wanted to write, you could’ve done that without contacting us in the first place.
And guess what?  We don’t follow AP standards.  Maybe you take the Associated Oppressors’ every word as guidance, but we don’t.  Good luck with relying on AP for your version of reality.  Also, I just want to point out that GLAAD is one agent, one actor, competing to force their construction of reality onto everyone else.  All homosexuals in the US did not take a vote to appoint GLAAD as the keeper of the dictionary nor the spokesperson for all concerns.  I am happy to receive these resources, but I do not proceed by thinking they are the be all-end all.  And nor should anybody.
In addition, I have received the GLAAD media guide and I do have some substantive disagreements with them and areas I think they are just completely wrong.
Then, for you to insinuate that we just published this article, or made the language choice we did, just to upset you and your friends, is not only absurd, but truly ignorant.  We are Atlanta’s only source of news from a progressive, pro-working families perspective and we have produced almost 600 original news articles in just over 4 years.  I decided we wanted to cover this story out of the goodness of my heart, and because Atlanta has lost it’s GLBT magazine, Southern Voice.  I asked Alice Gordon–a volunteer, mind you–to cover this story.  So there’s no appreciation of any of that, or the work she put in to the story.  No, the only focus is on our use of “sex change” in the title of a story where the person is changing their sex.  (AND–where their entire legal case is centered around discrimination on the basis of sex–so it’s like Lambda Legal has one presentation of the case for the courtroom and another for the public.)  You just go ahead and assume that we’re out here just salivating to get into a blog match on Pam’s House Blend- get a grip!
Anyhow, if you want to get into a discussion of the merits of this argument, I would be happy to do so.  But all you’ve done is said these are the standards adopted by AP and GLAAD- in other words, your argument is, “do it because we said so.”
I also noticed that someone in the comments made a big deal about our low number of Twitter and Facebook followers.  Well, what can I say?  We’ve been so busy covering the news that we only recently created these social media pages.  But our website gets 9,600 hits a day on average and we have over 5,600 people our email list.  Also, our editorial policy on using the word “homosexual” rather than gay has been in place for years and is the result of an in-depth analysis–none of which has been substantively engaged here.
News Editor, Atlanta Progressive News
Matthew Cardinale

HmmSo, now we’re a bunch of redneck, homophobic ‘tards?  I wonder if that’s in the AP style manual?

“a progressive, pro-working families” Seems like an oxymoron, but that “pro-working families” mumbo jumbo is some serious code for some serious privilege to say some highly bigoted shit about people that you don’t like.
So tell us, why do you have the editorial policy that you on the use of the word”homosexual” as opposed to gay? Engage us…

Wow.Y’know Gina, I deal with having mental illness and with being trans, and I’ve been marginalized and stigmatized for both. The word for marginalizing and stigmatizing disabled people, which is found in your use of the word ‘tards as you used the term, is ableism.

We embrace identity communities here, including the disabled. Using marginalizing and stigmatizing terms relating to identity communities is just not okay.

APN is full of shit…They know the correct language to use…this from an older article…

Activists worry that, without Southern Voice, there will be no other print publication to provide original, full-length reporting of interest to homosexual, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, and intersex Atlantans.

http://www.atlantaprogressiven…
And I’ve noticed in other stories that they do use the word gay

Perhaps you’ve noticed……it’s no longer 1962.

Gay is Okay, but Homosexual is More AccurateKevin,
If that’s your question, let’s start here, with what we’ve already published.
MC
####
MATTHEW CARDINALE: Gay is Okay, But Homosexual is More Accurate
By Matthew Cardinale, News Editor and President (October 29, 2006)
It has long been the editorial policy of Atlanta Progressive News to use the word “homosexual” to describe persons who have a same-sex sexual orientation.
Our policy differs from that of many news organizations which tend to prefer the word “gay” instead of “homosexual.”
I want our readers to know that as a News Editor, I have put a lot of thought into this and many other word choices at Atlanta Progressive News.
After receiving two emails from concerned readers, I have revisited and explored the issue again, and have come to the same conclusion: it would be irresponsible of APN as a news agency to use the words “gay,” “straight,” or “lesbian” as if any of these were unproblematic.
What is in a word?
Language isn’t perfect, of course, because it is socially constructed. So we can’t focus on language and unlock the mysteries of the universe.
But, we can look to language to uncover some very fascinating issues about ourselves. And I think it’s important we think about the significance of the language choices we use, and what ideas they may perpetuate.
Some people have objected to the use of “homosexual” because it calls attention to sexual orientation.
Well, any time you’re using an adjective to describe someone’s sexual orientation, I’m sorry, but you’re calling attention to their sexual orientation. Using the word “gay” doesn’t make it any different.
We might want to discuss, where does it get us as a society to even categorize people into sexual orientations? Maybe it’s nobody’s business what another person’s sexual orientation is. But that’s not something that will be settled any time soon.
In the meantime, as long as people feel the need to use an adjective describing a person’s sexual orientation, then we should try, I believe, to use the most accurate word possible.
There is no word, in my view, which more accurately describes same-sex sexual orientation than the word homosexual.
Now, there are a number of reasons some people have been enthusiastic about the word “gay.” And I want to talk about these reasons.
Most of the reasons I’ve gotten, I must say, have not been very compelling. The word “homosexual” is antiquated; no one uses it anymore, I’ve been told. Well, I’d prefer to be principled than to follow trends.
But a few substantive reasons have been put forth.
First, the word “gay,” I’ve been told, is preferred because it doesn’t call as much attention to sexuality as does the word “homosexual.”
Well, I think that’s exactly the problem!
I think the propagation of the word “gay” is an effort to appease the Religious Right in this country.
It’s almost like, don’t worry, we’re not homosexual, we’re just gay. See? And that’s not as bad now, is it? We’re just happy and festive [the original meaning of "gay"] and we’re good, wholesome people, and have a wonderful community, and oh, by the way, we also have same sex sexual orientation but that’s really neither here not there.
It makes me feel like people are still so ashamed of their sexual orientation that they don’t want to admit it.
Moreover, I don’t think using the word “gay” instead of “homosexual” advances the cause of equality.
In fact, I think it makes it worse by insidiously allowing the Religious Right to define the word “homosexual” word as such a taboo, to the point where some of us would be offended by its very usage!
I think we should embrace the word homosexual, and we should be working diligently to turn it into a wonderful, positive word… instead of surrendering its meaning to our enemies.
One Atlanta blogger, Chris Vise, gave another argument, and told us:”Sure being gay is having a sexual attraction to a person of the same gender [sic; should have said "sex," not gender] but that isn’t all there is to being gay.”
Really? What else is there?
Let’s be clear. I’m not saying homosexual people are wholly “defined” as people by their sexuality, than 23 year-old people are defined by their age, or blue eyed people are defined by their eye color.
But, when you’re using an adjective to describe a demographic characteristic about a person, then yes, you are calling attention to whatever trait it is.
If homosexual people don’t like being called “homosexual” because it brings attention to their sexuality, then using the word “gay” shouldn’t help the situation, really, since it’s supposedly doing the same thing.
Chris Vise’s claim I think gets to the crux of the matter.
Is there really more to being “gay” than being homosexual?
Here is where I think we hit a loaded question.
Because I don’t think there is.
I mean, maybe a lot of homosexual people, say, in Atlanta, read Southern Voice Magazine every week, and go to Gay Pride, and buy their books at Charis and Outwrite.
The key word in that sentence is “a lot.” “A lot” is not the same as “all.”
To assume there is a cluster of cultural activities and attributes that accompany every homosexual person is, I believe, unfair.
The only thing all homosexual people have in common is their homosexuality.
Now, what about “the gay community?”
There are some really interesting questions here: Is there a gay community? Who is a member of the gay community? Who gets to decide the boundaries of the gay community? Who is the gatekeeper? Who gets to decide what the community should be called?
And, clearly, there is evidence of a “gay community” in that there are a lot of homosexual people and prominent organizations who participate in the “gay community,” and prefer the word “gay.” And the fact that it’s real to them is enough to make it real for our discussion.
However, who gets to decide whether “gay” is the right name for a community which purports to include all homosexuals?
Of course, it isn’t just the “gay” community. The community has typically been expanded to include many other populations.
Debates over whether it should be lgbt, lgbtqi community, or another acronym, highlight the very constructed nature of what we’re talking about.
Was there a vote on whether “gay” is the right word for the entire population of homosexual people in America? Did all homosexuals get a ballot? I certainly, as a homosexual, did not receive a ballot. So do me a favor and don’t call me gay unless you’re describing my happiness.
Why the word “gay”?
It’s almost like, “gay” people are just so happy and fun and fabulous that they can’t help themselves, and this gay-ness just carries over into their sexual life.
As if, the word “gay” is juxtaposed to “rational” or “moral.”
The worst thing about it is when “gay” is juxtaposed to “straight!”
Think about it. Everyone knows in the cultural slang, the opposite of “gay” is “straight.” So the meaning of each word is intrinsically defined by its opposite.
I think that’s the ultimate self-betrayal, when we use the word straight to describe heterosexuals!
Does this mean “gay” people are crooked?
The history of the word “straight” didn’t always mean heterosexual; it used to mean not on drugs, or “on the straight and narrow,” the opposite of hippies during that era. So, again, I think there’s an undertone to the word “gay” that means morally inferior!
So, what now? Do we use the word “gay” or “homosexual?”
People can continue to do whatever they want, really. But as a newspaper, I think APN has a responsibility not just to satisfy the vocal majority, but to protect the silent minority of people who may not be happy with the word “gay.”
Given the problems with the word “gay” as I’ve described, homosexual is a far superior choice, especially since, by definition, it most accurately describes the characteristic we’re talking about.
Most importantly, equality based on sexual orientation is a key element of our progressive editorial principles at Atlanta Progressive News. Such equality will continue to be important to our mission even if some readers disagree with us over some labels.
We hope this explanation of our policy has raised some interesting questions, and we certainly apologize if anyone was offended.
Thank you all so much again for your interest and support of Atlanta Progressive News.
About the author:
Matthew Cardinale is the News Editor and President of Atlanta Progressive News. He may be reached at matthew@atlantaprogressivenews.com

Not to burn karma……but I can’t say I agree completely.  And Pam, Autumn and everyone else, thank you for making this a place I feel safe in stating the following:

“…In the newest editions of the Associated Press Stylebook, the phrase, “sex change” has been phased out. You are directed to “transgender,” where the term “sex change” no longer occurs. I think this is a good indication that “sex change” is NOT terminology that is in and of itself inclusive of the experiences of transgender people who transition.”

Referring editors and writers to transgender is a mistake that will make their writing less clear and less educational to the general public.  Transgender is a superset of people that cross societal gender expectations; someone that has SRS is in a very unique subset of TG, by description if not self identity.  I never thought I’d write or feel this, but it fully equates the two and erases the experience of the subset in which people must match their bodies and social identity to their brains.  Question: if enough HBS people tell you something is offensive…?  (and no, I don’t agree with them on most issues, only that it is a separate and not equal experience and the confusion helps one group while harming the other).

“To say that she was fired for a “transition” would not meet the criteria of being informative. We would have been happy to change the reference in the title from sex change to gender change; however, Glenn and Lambda Legal have refused to APN and other media outlets to clarify whether Glenn actually has had or is planning to have a sex change operation.”

It’s none of anyone’s goddamn business whether she has had surgery and that is what the orgs should be getting across to the AP and the rest of the media. Good for them for going as far as they did. And, truth be told she was not fired for a transition, she was fired for offending undereducated gender-stereotype bigots by simply existing.

“Glenn appears to have set out to change not only her gender but also her sex, then sexual identity seems to be the most appropriate term
here.”

This to me is the crux of the problem.  Our constant infighting and the way we have let other groups that do not have the same experiences as us do too much of the heavy lifting has resulted in confusion.  Much of the infighting has been between TG and TS; we need to clarify the distinctions both to ourselves and the general public. We need to stop letting LGBt groups act as our liaisons to the media (and therefore the general public). We can join them in common fights, but it’s time we stand on our own.

Doesn’t sound so progressive to me

“Also, our editorial policy on using the word “homosexual” rather than gay has been in place for years and is the result of an in-depth analysis–none of which has been substantively engaged here. “

Even the New York Times gave this up in the 1980s. That’s not exactly “progressive” of you. It’s actually pretty retrogressive. Your old-fashioned language is condescending and, in context, quite offensive.
It’s not about AP standards, it’s about respect.

And the contradiction is…?Yes, we use the terms transgender and transsexual (there is a difference between the two) in addition to “sex change” to describe someone changing their sex.
In my phone conversation with Lambda Legal late yetserday, I was advised that transgender is the preferred umbrella term and that transsexual is frowned upon.  But here, you imply that I’ve used “transgender, transsexual” properly.  So, get it together you guys.  Make up your minds!
In addition, I am disappointed in the use of foul language on this blog (in addition to the previous description of Atlantans as redneck tards).  If you all want to discuss these issues, let’s try to keep some decorum.

I agreeI agree.  The juxtaposition of gay to straight (implying that homosexuals are crooked) is just one of the reasons we have opted not to use the word gay to describe individuals.

Using homosexual outside a clinical situation is DISRESPECTFUL…..periodI know thousands of LGBTs….NONE call themselves homosexuals.
If you don’t respect us enough to call us, what we call us…GO F*CK YOURSELF!
Negroid and Caucasion are also scientificly accurate terms, but they would be inappropriate outside a Scientific journal, and may not even be in use in that type of publication.

Thank you for the reasoned responseHave we, as a society, become so divisive that we must label everything?  Looking at the opinions expressed thus far, I wonder if any one of us has looked at the labels we live under.  I know a few of mine – transexual, lesbian, white, capitalistic, exploitative, etc. and the list could go on a long ways.  But, the labels come from others and I have learned not to worry about it any more and just go with the one label – me.  Yes, surprisingly enough, we all have that one label and it is what makes us unique at the same time.  Define with labels all you want, it comes back to how we define ourselves.  I learned a long time ago that no one wins a labels argument; there are too many labels and multiple definitions for each and every one of those labels.
Sorry Autumn, I have to side with Matthew on this one.  It may be a hot button for many people, but unless malice is involved, then there is no harm, and thus no foul.  As a friend’s sig line says:  
Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Diana

What is and isn’t people’s businessI agree also that we as a society should question why we need to categorize people in the first place.  So no, I do not spend my waking hours wondering if Vandy Beth Glenn has had surgery or not.
However, VBG did file a lawsuit claiming discrimination on the basis of sex.  Her transition from one sex to another, male to female, is at the crux of her entire legal case.  And while it may have been sufficient for her to get fired just by being transgender (surgery or not), it may not be sufficient to be afforded protections under the current law where sex (not gender or perceived gender) discrimination is being claimed.  Therefore, it is relevant to the story.  And we did not make a big deal about her surgery.  We referred to “sex change” once in the title- because, again, she did change her sex.  And we mentioned it again towards the end of the story.
When questioned about those two references, we felt the need to explain to readers why we felt they were factually correct.
I look forward to a world where people aren’t heterosexual and homosexual–where people are just people.  Until we arrive there, as a news editor, my responsibility will be to tell the whole story to readers, even if it means reifying categories that are socially constructed, arbitrary, or problematic.  (ie- race is socially constructed, but we still refer to people as Black, White, etc.)

APN has chosen to be BY and FOR a heterosexual audience ONLYThey are perfectly welcome to do so. But don’t attempt to address LGBTs, go talk to with the heteros, and leave us out of your reporting.

Are you gay?Obviously not…

First, the word “gay,” I’ve been told, is preferred because it doesn’t call as much attention to sexuality as does the word “homosexual.”
Well, I think that’s exactly the problem!
I think the propagation of the word “gay” is an effort to appease the Religious Right in this country.

This really isn’t your call to make.
I did read some of your articles, by the way, and I did notice that, on the whole, you are allies as opposed to enemies. But…that “pro-working families” is also a buzzword that appeals to the religious right as well…
I think that this may have more to do with your audience than any pretension to seeking a more accurate term.

The Moral Imparative“They’d (sic) all like that over in Atlanta.”
Stereotyping?! Tsk, tsk.
Isn’t that a bit of nastiness we criticize them for when they do it to gays?
I spent the Christmas season with my daughter. She is a special ed teacher in Guinnett County, GA just north of Atlanta. We had supper Christmas evening with Jody and Chris, a lesbian couple whom we joined at the Christmas Eve service at Trinity Lutheran Church the night before. My daughter sings in the choir.
I saw several photos in the hall that led to the bedroom where we deposited our coats when we arrived. Later, I asked Chris if they were from a commitment ceremony. When she said yes, I suggested that it couldn’t be here in Atlanta, but she informed me that it indeed was. It was at the Lutheran Church we had been to the night before. In fact my daughter had sung their favorite song as part of the ceremony.
I got to see the photo album a friend had made for them. Lots of friends and fellow church members were there.
This was seven years ago and represented the first gay commitment ceremony performed in any Lutheran Church in the southeast at the time. What could be more “gay affirming” than for a church to do something like this?
So… not all residence of Atlanta are rednecks, nor do all Christians hate gays. Just as churches in the northeast raised the abolition of slavery to a moral issue that led to its end, there are Christians today who follow Jesus teachings about treating neighbors, gay, straight and other alike.
When treating gays with the dignity and respect they deserve, as part of God’s family, becomes a moral imperative, we will win. Those who pick a few Biblical verses to support their anti-gay views will go the way of the slave owners of old.
Christians are part of the solution as well as part of the problem. Like Jody and Chris, don’t give up your faith in God’s love for all of us because of the sins of the few.

Oh, sheeesh, you haven’t seen me get foul…

Do we get to use Christianist Extrremistto refer to Michelle Bachmann and Ruben Diaz?
how about “openly homophobic reactionary member of congress” for a few people?
Fair is fair, right?

kevThe author is just setting up strawman arguements, of gay being used to not call attention to sexual orientation.
That was never the reason gay came into use…I know I was there.
The author, for his own reson doesn’t accept language is not Frozen in the 1950′s, it grows and changes, this guy can’t or won’t adapt.
evolve or die

seriously LawrenceI am as much a voice of the LGBT community as anyone else, and what recourse do you have in YOUR power to prevent me from speaking of MY community members as US.
yeah NO POWER whatsoever.

“pro-working families” That’s coded language to appease the religious right.
Also there is the “alphabet soup” issue that “homosexual” seems to exclude the bisexual and transgender parts of our communities as well…
it is complicated…
There’s also this…

People can continue to do whatever they want, really. But as a newspaper, I think APN has a responsibility not just to satisfy the vocal majority, but to protect the silent minority of people who may not be happy with the word “gay.”

First of all, those who would prefer the word “homosexual” to the word “gay” aren’t so silent, nowadays. In fact, they’re the biggest loudmouths.
I’m actually all for reaching out to readers that may not be receptive to what you say in advocacy of the GLBT community. And I don’t think the intent here is to cause harm.
But you are causing harm…after all, “homosexual” is also the word that our oppressors use in their printed and online materials.

You just keep digging yourself in deeper, don’t you?

I think the propagation of the word “gay” is an effort to appease the Religious Right in this country.

Wrong.  The term gay for people attracted to their own gender has a much longer history than you seem able to grasp.  Though it didn’t come into mainstream usage and acceptance until the 1970s, it dates back at least as far as the 1920s (and some scholars trace it back even farther than that).  You can find it in 30s movies, such as Bringing Up Baby, for instance.  It has been around a lot longer than the current wave of religious mania on the American right, which has its roots in the 1970s but really gained traction in the Reagan years.  
Many gay people–nearly all, in my experience–find the word homosexual offensive.  It is an obsolete clinical term used historically to demonize us–as a pretext for imprisonment, castration, electroshock and any number of other horrors that plagued our lives in previous decades.  If you’re not interested in demonizing us yourself, why do you  feel compelled to cling to it?  
I find your claim that we use the term gay as a sop to the religious right downright weird.  You are the one using, endorsing and defending their preferred terminology.  You, not us.  If you don’t understand why that’s problematic–if you can’t grasp why every major news organization in this country has abandoned the use of the outdated terminology you embrace–you simply haven’t thought about the matter properly.  And if you think that it is good journalistic practice to deliberately, intentionally refer to groups of people by words you know they find offensive, I would suggest respectfully that you are in the wrong profession.

Even in the South language has grown and changed that muchhis bringing up the appeasement to the Religious Right and yet using the phrase “pro-working families” would seem to indicate that he needs a mirror.

not true!Dear Peteypornpig,
I asked the author of this original post to include in the story the fact that I am openly homosexual for context.  But like many other things, she chose not to include it.
So APN is certainly not by a heterosexual, nor is it for a heterosexual audience.  I mean, really?  We have a wide umbrella of readers, including many from the Black churches and the labor unions who do not necessarily know the first thing about transgender issues.  Do we lose subscribers by covering issues of concern to homosexual, bisexuals, transgender people, intersex people, etc.?  Probably.  But we insist on covering all of those issues because our mission is to bring people together and to bring them outside of their issue silos.
You know, I’m literally LOL’ing at this point.  The idea that we would be accused of being by and for heterosexuals is just so far from the truth it really amazes me.
MC

Reading statements made by Mormon elders describing Blacks prior to 1978They would casually use the term darkies, and Negress. Darkies was used in a statement that BYU Black athletes would be seperated from White students so they wouldn’t date outside their race, and would be shipped into the small Negro community in SLC to date with their own kind.
Negress was used to speak of Gladys Knight, who they converted to LDS and liked, she was called FAMED NEGRESS SINGER GLADYS KNIGHT.
So even though a word was once considered respectful,  no publication in this Century would describe an artist as Negress. WHY? because Blacks wouldn’t read the rag, and APN should be notified LGBTs won’t read their sh*t either.

actually, it goes back to the 16th century

The word had started to acquire associations of immorality by 1637[1] and was used in the late 17th century with the meaning “addicted to pleasures and dissipations.”[7] This was by extension from the primary meaning of “carefree”: implying “uninhibited by moral constraints.” A gay woman was a prostitute, a gay man a womanizer and a gay house a brothel.[1]

Although heterosexuals as well as homosexuals could be “gay” back in the good old days. It was the immorality, licentiousness, and the libertinism that was involved with being gay…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay

And, it’s okay to disagree.I have a very visible agenda at Pam’s House Blend with regards to statements I perceive as antigay, antitrans and/or anti-______ sentiments (pick your identity community). I also buy into Roz Kaveney’s six axioms of trans activism, and I see axioms 3 and 4 applying here.
If you note, my attacks weren’t personal, but professional; I labled behavior over lableling any individuals. I spelled out my objections in clear terms; I included multiple references for journalism styleguides that agree with my standpoints. I didn’t shoot up; I didn’t shoot down; I shoot at journalism I see as not complying with the standards. I don’t think the “no malice, no foul” standard applies when one is using industry standards as the measure.
I’m very comfortable with my position, as you are with yours. I appreciate that even in disagreement, we can both come back to The Blend again to sit about the virutal coffee house and share virtual coffee and tea with each other, and still have conversations as virtual peers and virtual friends.

mathew…cupcakeYou are welcome to LOL all you like, with publications dropping like flies…no one will  miss ya when you’re GONE.

Endonym vs. exonymThe term “homosexual” was invented by people who were what we would now call “heterosexual” or “straight” as a way of stigmatizing and pathologizing those of us to whom the term applies.  Insisting on continuing to use that word is classic insistence on using an exonym — calling a group of people the name given to them by their enemies.  It’s one of the most basic principles in progressive, culturally-sensitive use of language — unless there’s a specific need for more precision (and no, this isn’t one of those cases — we all know that “gay” refers to sexual orientation), call groups by the names they give themselves.

girlfriend please

They don’t just *use* the term “homosexual” –They invented it as a term of judgment.

Matthew“our mission is to bring people together and to bring them outside of their issue silos. ”
You are certainly bringing LGBT people together, you aren’t impressing us, but you are bringing us together.
Here’s a clue….you won’t like US when we are together.

You do realize, don’t you,that your viewpoint represents only a tiny (if not microscopic) fraction of the gay community?  You’re entitled to your opinion, certainly, but it is only that–your opinion, and out of sync with the huge preponderance of gay people.

Foul, Petey.You absolutely know better, Petey, than to tell someone in a thread here at PHB to GO F*CK YOURSELF!
>
Not. Acceptable. Behavior.

see, if “homosexual” had clearly remaineda clinical term, then I could respect your decision a lot more (M notes that it comes out of medicine as was a way of pathologizing…that’s true, but those doctors and psychatrists weren’t exactly unfriendly either).
The word now has cultural currency in the world, used chiefly by anti-gay folks. That’s the other context here that needs to be recognized.

Do I order pizza as a Lesbian?Yes, I am still a Lesbian when I order pizza, though to be honest I prefer the term Sapphist as of late.

TONE DEAFNESS is curable

No harm? Really?

It may be a hot button for many people, but unless malice is involved, then there is no harm, and thus no foul.

You honestly think there is “no harm” in perpetuating (and defending as legitimate) the use of language used to demonize people?  I’d love to know what brought you to that conclusion.  

That’s not what Petey didAutumn, you’re overreacting to Petey’s comment.
Please re-read this sentence:

If you don’t respect us enough to call us, what we call us…GO F*CK YOURSELF!

That’s fair, under the circumstances.

Apparently it isas I cannot imagine that ANYONE would violate the elements of style.

If APN’s usage is “correct and succinct”why has every major news organization in the country abandoned it?  For that matter, what do you think is “succinct” about using a four-syllable word instead of a word with only one syllable?  This is reminding me more and more of those racists in the 50s and 60s who used to insist that Negro was more “accurate” than black.

Well, in peteypornpig’s on words on this thread

The minute I read it in a post I know I’m dealing with someone who holds us in such contempt, they won’t respect us enough to call us what we call ourselves…and NO LGBT calls themselves “homosexual.”
I get the same reaction when I hear Negro, it is too f*cking cute by half, used by the folks who say N*GGER when they aren’t in public.

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/…

your IGNORANCE of Heather Small tickles me in so many levelsShe is the artist who recorded the lyric I use as my signature…notice that it’s in italics and the body of my post isn’t in italics.
The song is PROUD another concept that tickles me you don’t seem to have a grasp of….either.
live and learn sweetie
 
PROUD was also prominantly used on the TV series Queer as Folk
 
I do apologise for mis spelling your name, that wasn’t intentional.  

We did within the blog here.For comments within the blog, please take a look at the Pam’s House Blend Terms and Conditions of Service (TOS).

You may not post or transmit any message which is harmful, threatening, abusive, hateful, or defamatory (defamatory anti-lesbian, anti-gay, anti-bisexual, and anti-transgender language will include, but not be limited to, the language identified as defamatory within the current online version of the GLAAD Media Guide). Excessive use of profanity is discouraged, epithets directed at community members are grounds for suspension or deactivation (banning) at any time.

“Homosexual” is identified in the GLAAD Media Reference Guide as …well, as I noted it in the text of the diary above:

Offensive: “homosexual” (n. or adj.)
Preferred: “gay” (adj.); “gay man” or “lesbian” (n.)
Please use “lesbian” or “gay man” to describe people attracted to members of the same sex. Because of the clinical history of the word “homosexual,” it has been adopted by anti-gay extremists to suggest that lesbians and gay men are somehow diseased or psychologically/emotionally disordered – notions discredited by both the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association in the 1970s. Please avoid using “homosexual” except in direct quotes. Please also avoid using “homosexual” as a style variation simply to avoid repeated use of the word “gay.” The Associated Press, New York Times and Washington Post restrict usage of the term “homosexual” (See AP, New York Times & Washington Post Style).

Since APN is a site that practices what they consider journalism, I’m holding the organization to the varied styleguides and standards of journalism. That their journalism doesn’t conform to varied industry standards is significant to note.
So you, and everyone else here in the PHB threads, are held to the Pam’s House Blend TOS, which includes the GLAAD Media Reference Guide standards.

And your “responsibility”involves deliberately using language for minority communities which you know they find offensive and demeaning?  A fine journalistic standard, that.

Laurence…Per the note above and the PHB TOS, you don’t get to choose, within our threads, whether or not to call gay by the term homosexual. MatthewAPN has come to our thread to explain his position in his publication, so he gets some wiggle room here in this thread to defend his use of the term on his website. I challenged his publication’s journalism standards, and he’s defending it.
You; however, don’t get to choose to use “homosexual” in this thread, or any other thread, as a substitue for the term gay. Basically, you’re not getting the same wiggle room that MatthewAPN is receiving; you agreed, when you signed up here, to follow our TOS.
So, please consider this a moderation warning.
In fact, all in this thread can consider this a moderation warning.

You know…… coming back swinging is probably not going to help.
Now, technically speaking, “sex change” is actually clinically accurate.  The physical sex is what’s changing.  But it is also culturally insensitive.  
To compare one term that was brought up elsewhere in this thread, “retard” in the verb tense is to slow something, so if someone really wanted to press the case for using that term in reference to specifically developmentally challenged individuals, it could be claimed to be somewhat “technically” appropriate.  However, it’s more commonly used in an offensive manner, is also inaccurately applied to non-developmentally challenged people, is meant to unjustly discount peoples’ intelligence and value, overlooks the worth of developmentally-challenged peoples’ experiences, and is usually intended to insult and cut down.  Even if someone claimed to use it in only the “technical” sense, it doesn’t take any great effort to see how throwing the word around is just plain ignorant.
“Sex change” is also most commonly used to offend, shock people with a kind of “freakshow” sense of drama, discount peoples’ value, insult and cut down.  
If it angers a huge swath of people that get labeled by that terminology, then chances are, it needs rethinking.
You express after this comment some confusion with how people disagree over the labels — yeah, it’s not perfect the way the definitions are evolving.  However, if a majority of people seem happy with the stylebook used by the AP, then however much you may dislike the AP, maybe it’s time to consider that they did their homework and got at least this part right.

Autumn, he didn’t mean the bad f wordhe meant “fick”

I get awfully tired of articles which use Incinderary disrespectful termsThen monitoed like a school marm.
Autumn you do this repeatedly, it’s really sidewise behaviour, and boardering on PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.

His name isn’t Heather Small.Okay, this is another moderation warning to you. The individual who goes by peteypornpig in our blog doesn’t go by the name Heather Small. Referring to him by that name again — after he explained to you in this thread that Heather Small is not his name — is not acceptable behavior within our threads.

Uh-huh.

We’re 3~10% (at least) of the population–depending on the framing of the polling question.  We come in all sizes, shapes, colors and flavors. ’nuff said.

True, true.  There are LGBT reactionaries, gay troglodytes, lesbian ninnies, trans goons.  And even among most of them, homosexual is considered offensive.  
There is still such a thing as consensus.  Just because you and your pal Matthew enjoy demeaning language doesn’t mean the rest of us have to.

MOO!   

Well Matthew,I don’t recall reading your request, but I actually might have missed your request to have your identity spelled out.
My sincere appologies for not spelling out your self-identification in the original piece as you wanted it spelled out.

Oops. I knew that.I guess the image of Cary Grant in that negligee addled my (what passes for) brain momentarily.

In NYC…FYI Kevinchi, in NYC there’s a Working Families Party that is sort of a left-splinter of the Democratic Party. They’re very progressive and pro-gay. I think “Working Families” in this context comes as a dodge to using the word “Workers” which would sound too Communist for most Americans.

Ah, but that’s New York CityAPD is coming out of Atlanta.
You could be right, though.

ABSOLUTELY NOT, I meant exactly how I stated itLater folks, this ain’t worth it

Oh, Cary Grant was gay, alright…I mean, even in the word and the use of “gay” nowadays there’s still the 16th cent. connotation in it.  

HOW many Blenders are you willing to sacrifice and TURN OFF?By coddeling people who SPIT on LGBTs, and 99.99% of LGBTs would find OFFENSIVE.
just give me a number and I won’t bother you again?

^5

Oh so that makes it OK thensince it isn’t YOUR statement. Sorry but if you are going to agree with backasswards statements like this, then you need to own up to taking the heat instead of pushing it back onto Gore Vidal.
There is a presumptiveness that heterosexuals never stop being heterosexual, whether they are in bed with their opposite-sex spouse(s) or yes, paying the bills and ordering pizza. Yet your (oh sorry, Vidal’s) statement says the only time we are queer is when we are in the sack with our same-sex spouse(s). So if we are only “homosexual” when in bed, what are we when we are doing the mundane tasks of our lives?
It screams of the assimilationist “WE ARE REALLY JUST LIKE YOU! Pleasepleaseprettyplease accept us.” of the 70′s.

Uh I was born thereand have friends from there so the “phobic will not reprint other term out of respect” doesn’t really fly.

Not being willing to stand up when language is being misusedis helping our oppressors. It has been stated first by Autumn and then by several of us that labels DO matter because the attitudes directed towards those labels affect our lives. Sure, in a perfect world, no one would need labels and everyone would be truly equal and we would all live happilyeverafterTheEnd but this is not a perfect world.
So when so-called “progressive” organizations insist on using language that our enemies use when trying to “help our cause” and refuse to consider how their actions are hurtful to the same people they profess to support, well, yeah, there’s a problem.  

Oh pleaseNot everyone who is transgender is a transsexual. Is your publication really this obtuse? Talk about the need to get it together.

Just Curiouswhat terminology do you use when talking about African-Americans? Latino/a people? If you use terms that are several decades’ outdated for these communities, do you feel a need to educate your readers on why you feel justified in using terminology that people in those communities find offensive?
I look forward to a world where people are just people too. But when you insist on using the same dehumanizing language for us that our oppressors use, it shows we’ve got alot farther to go.

And if we really want to be pickyA majority of Lesbian activists preferred to be identified by terms clearly delineating us as a group separate from homosexuals/gays/plato’s stepchildren/whatever.
We can argue semantics and nomenclature ad nauseum.  

Dambmy brilliance in this thread was erased. Some remains.

Yes, that is really unfortunate.Your “just curious” comment above, however, pretty much nails the situation, so your brilliance shines on.

Thank you.

WaitaminuteAre you really trying to set the rules here with this?

In addition, I am disappointed in the use of foul language on this blog (in addition to the previous description of Atlantans as redneck tards).  If you all want to discuss these issues, let’s try to keep some decorum.

Who died and made you Pam anyways?

I alwaysshow up late for the fun- phooey. Nothing but soggy chips and no more dip left. Sigh…

Working FamiliesI’m pro working families and I’m not part of the religious right. The fact that most of the people without health insurance in this country are members of working families disturbs me a lot.

Well why not?He’s perfectly willing to tell us what we should call ourselves…

And, as you saw, Louise…“We” (me on the behalf of the Baristas) handled it per the Pam’s House Blend Terms And Conditions Of Service.
We baristas are directed in the TOS to give warnings, so I followed Pam’s spelled-out procedures.

Me too……I’m very pro-family.
The difference between many of us pro-family people in the LGBT community and many pro-family conservative “Christians” is how we define what a family is. I know I define families to include same sex and same gender parents, among other diverse family forms.

from a tribe named for a bundle of sticks….KINDLINGI AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE
 

TiresomeThis interesting thread is becoming tiresome.
I remember when the term “honky” was applied to whites like me. It was meant to be derisive, but I just laughed and had to agree. Many blacks have more melodious voices than most whites. LOL So what? It’s just funny.
When others call me names, I just smile and laugh inside. Whatever they might say, it doesn’t change who I am, it just shows how ignorant they are.
What others may call you, whether it’s meant to be derogatory or not, is of no importance, really. What matters is being true to yourself.

“honky”was easy for whites like us to laugh off because we were in the powerful majority.  i agree that being true to yourself is important, but sometimes that entails telling the oppressive majority that you won’t stand silently and be called nigger, homosexual, kike, wetback, retard, sinner, pervert, animal, criminal.

FamilyIn the most general terms, a family is a group of people who work together to achieve common goals.
Now, if we could only agree on what those goals are, our ability to make the world a better place for all of us might be delayed, but will finally succeed.  

some of us will take back what was hurled at us in hatelike queer, dyke, and faggot

sure, but being on the receiving end of a printed articleis completely different than being on the receiving end of a verbal hurl.  we have no way to adequately correspond with all the readers of any print article which has debased us.

Not so fast…

“Gender Identification Disorder, a medical condition in which one’s physical sex does not match the perceived sex of the individual.”

Actually, the physical sex does not match the internal gender identity of the individual.  ”Internal gender identity” in the case of a transsexual person consists of the person’s self identified gender and the body that goes with it.  Perhaps the author meant “self-perceived sex”, but that still implies a certain degree of self-deception.

“She was fired based on Brumby’s uneasiness stemming from her sexual identity.”

Sexual identity typically refers to whether someone is attracted to the same sex, the opposite sex, both, neither, or a number of other possibilities.  Since the phrase was only used in the quoted instance, it belies either a certain confusion over nomenclature or an intentional disbelief that sexuality and gender are two distinct and independent attributes.

“changing her sex”

This seems to be a sticking point, the use of variations of “sex change”.  This is partly due to the early sensationalism that surrounded the likes of Christine Jorgeson (i.e., magazine articles proclaiming, “I changed my sex!”).  It is also a sticking point because there is so much more involved in the condition than whether she’s an innie or an outie, yet that is what the press and courts focus on.  It’s objectification, it’s stereotyping, its sexualizing and it’s demeaning.

“Her name change was complete and she was ready to begin her new life.”

Case in point: by the time she could legally change her name she had already begun her “new life” perhaps a year or more in the past.  Again, it’s not all about the genitals.

“At present Ms. Glenn says she feels much better and at home with her present sexual identity. “It’s the way I was supposed to be in the first place. I have a comfort within my own skin I never had before,”

Again with the “confusion” regarding sexual identity and gender.  Was this an intentional equating of the two or was it complete ignorance of the very definition of the “T” in LGBT?

“If Glenn had changed only her appearance and name, that would be a gender change instead of a sex change [ie, the difference between transgender and transsexual].”

Again, while I very much appreciate the attempt to try to write about the issues from a “progressive” viewpoint, I think that this attempt was somewhat of a failure.  Who’s at fault?  Good question.  How do we fix it is an even better one.

What would it prove?

“I asked the author of this original post to include in the story the fact that I am openly homosexual for context”

Exactly what context would that be?  Are you a trans man or trans woman?  No, you stated that you are “openly homosexual”.  Please understand that this is a bit like stating that you listen to suburban white boy rap music, so it’s okay to speak from the perspective of the members of those Black churches you mention.
The only context I can see would be for the use of the world homosexual in the description of LAMBDA, which actually bills itself as, “Lambda Legal is a national organization committed to achieving full recognition of the civil rights of lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, transgender people and those with HIV through impact litigation, education and public policy work.”.  Or perhaps in the description of Barney Frank, who likewise doesn’t seem to refer to himself as “homosexual”, at least not on his web site nor in public statements.
I could be wrong but perhaps the AP being by and for heterosexuals might just be a reference to privilege.
Again, this is starting to appear just slightly more than slightly like a member of a particular faction of the Umbrella just not “getting it” about trans people, who we are and why we are part of the acronym.  Or purposely disagreeing with our inclusion.  I’d like to think it is ignorance but then why the defensiveness?

I’m assuming that APN liberally uses the word “heterosexual”in describing those engaged in male-female relationships, including stories about marriage and families. Since the publication is determined to be as “accurate” as possible, and since the news editor has also determined that there is nothing more to being “gay” than homosexuality, then clearly APN’s policy concerning the use of sexual adjectives is applied in coverage of every person, right?
So, a story about a children’s program attended by parents should be accurately described as products of a heterosexual relationship, once the reporter has determined this exists. After all, if there is nothing more to being gay than sexuality, there is nothing more to being “straight” than sexuality, and that sexuality should be accurately described in any story covering members of that group. That is what would be considered accurate.
A good reporter already knows that he/she cannot ASSUME that the public knows everything – why, APN’s news editor used that anthem in explaining the importance of stories being clear to the public. So it would seem that references to Mrs. or other terms of matrimony (such as husband, or wife) be replaced by the use of the word “heterosexual” union, since it is obvious that the most accurate description of the title is to refer to a sexual relationship. And the reporter should take great pains to accurately factcheck that heterosexual description rather than make assumptions that it is “accurate” that being a “husband” or a “wife” automatically means heterosexual.
This should be quite an interesting undertaking, since there is an astonishing number of divorce cases in which heterosexual partners have not engaged in any sexual activity for years – or never.  
Moreover, the news editor is injecting his own inherent personal bias in self-describing himself as openly “homosexual.” However, in doing so, is he extending that description to the heterosexuals around him, and translating that into the publication with the same attention to “accuracy?”
On another note, the news editor is correct that no publication is legally, ethically, morally, or professionally bound to follow the Associated Press Stylebook or any of the other stylebooks published. They are only professional guidelines – used by many publications that almost always supplement those stylebooks with their own editorial decisions.
However, the key to deliberate bias is more identified by how universal the standards of usage are applied to ALL people covered by the publication – and not just some description of a particular minority group. If the news editor is, indeed, more concerned about there eventually being no need for ANY sexual distinctions in describing people, his publication would make that point much clearer and with, in my opinion, more “accuracy” by assigning the same standards of description to heterosexuals in the publication.
My guess is that the publication hasn’t been doing that at all – and hence put itself into this ethical mess.
This post is already too long – otherwise I’d go into the original discussion about the use of trans- words.

To be really equalThe newspaper would introduce each heterosexual they write about as KNOWN PRACTICING HETEROSEXUAL, who was somehow connected with a pedofile 30 years ago

My reasons:If I am so insecure so as to believe that there are people whose sole purpose is to malign me with nothing more than labels, then I would be dead by my own hand for believing them.  The only way to give them that power is to fall into their belief that I am not worth anything and I KNOW that I am better than they are are.  Our responses are what what give them their perceived power; by denying the response, I remove their power over me.
I read the story and subsequent replies from Matthew and believe that there was no malice intended, thus no harm was meant and none should be taken.  Having been on the receiving end of malice, I can say I know something of the matter at hand.
I started transitioning 5 years ago.  Do I shrilly demand that everyone bow down to me and use the correct pronouns?  No, I take them aside later and gently correct them.  Most often, this happens with those I have known since I was a child.  It is a learned pronoun and they usually get it right, but they are human and humans do make mistakes.
Lastly, he explained his reasoning and opinions on the matter and like almost all opinions, I respect their belief in them.  If I were to not respect their opinions, I could not expect mine to be respected either.  This is the same as respect in anythin; it is something that is given, not demanded.
Autumn’s response is respectful and well thought out and I respect her for that.  This is a place for debate and discussion, someplace to learn from.  If we can not learn from others’ experiences, how can we expect to survive our own?
Diana

equal application of the rules?i scanned the APN story right below the one Autumn discusses above, and wouldn’t you know it, the only person identified according to sexual orientation in the story was referred to as “an openly homosexual former Mayoral candidate”.  we’re left in the dark as to the sexual orientation of the others.  perhaps we’re to conclude by that unbalanced treatment that all the others are a-sexual?

APN isn’t even consistant“Lambda Legal sues Atlanta over Eagle raid
Lambda Legal filed a federal civil rights suit in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia on Tuesday in the aftermath of the Atlanta Police Department’s September raid on the Atlanta Eagle, a Midtown gay bar.
Lambda Legal, a national organization committed to the civil rights of the LGBT community, filed the suit along with Dan Grossman on behalf of 19 individuals who were detained and searched during the APD’s Sept. 10 raid.
   http://www.atlantaprogressiveb…
The call a bar of homosexuals a gay bar, but won’t call gay men gay.
They refer to the larger community as LGBT….where’s the “H” for homosexual in that abbreviation?

Power?! What the devil are you talking about?Where on earth did you get the idea that this is about “power”? Matthew has never claimed to have any “power” over us, nor have any of his critics accused him of it.

If I am so insecure so as to believe that there are people whose sole purpose is to malign me

Insecure?!  Really?  You honestly think that Autumn, Maura, kevinchi, peteypornpig and the rest of us who take exception to Matthew’s language (including myself) are “insecure”?!  Um…you’re new around here, aren’t you?
That kind of warm-fuzzy twelve-steppy stuff may give you some personal comfort, but as a point for discussion it’s virtually meaningless, if not actually counterproductive.  And it hardly addresses the question I asked you:  Matthew is

perpetuating (and defending as legitimate) the use of language used to demonize people

It’s hardly necessary to be “insecure” or get hung up on twaddle about “power” to find that objectionable.

Hmmmmm……“PROBLEMATIC: “sex change,” “pre-operative,” “post-operative”
PREFERRED: “transition”
Referring to a sex change operation, or using terms such as pre- or post-operative, inaccurately suggests that one must have surgery in order to truly change one’s sex”
“The phrase “sex change” is NOT the preferred terminology, nor appropriate or respectful. In fact, “sex reassignment surgery” is the most medically accurate term, whereas “sex change” is merely an older, pop culture phrase — and one that is considered deeply offensive to many transgender people, to whom it often carries a tone of dismissal, as if one could simply snap one’s fingers and — poof.
…In the newest editions of the Associated Press Stylebook, the phrase, “sex change” has been phased out. You are directed to “transgender,” where the term “sex change” no longer occurs. I think this is a good indication that “sex change” is NOT terminology that is in and of itself inclusive of the experiences of transgender people who transition.”
Gee-golly-gosh, I’m a POST-operative woman.  I had a SEX CHANGE.  
I guess I’m still old fashioned enough to believe you can (perhaps) change your GENDER without surgery, but you can’t change your sex without it.
Of course, those who say SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery) does not change your sex, are actually saying all “transgender” folk are really, forever their BIRTH sex.  It appears this “rule” also covers those born intersex.  Isn’t that being a bit presumptuous?  
I find it amusing that some folks seem to say you can change your SEX without surgery, yet, at the very same time, they describe folks who had SRS (see above) as MEN with an “inverted penis”.
In other words  –  if you have a “sex change” you are actually a MAN, but, if you retain your penis YOU can define yourself as a “woman”.  Doesn’t that remind anyone of the dreaded “Male Privilege”?
This now becomes another reason some lesbians claim all of the various “T folk” are their original sex (“no dicks on the land, etc.”)  –  thus denying even post-operative women of transsexual history access to “Woman Only” Facilities  –  including rape counseling.
It becomes very confusing  –  especially to those who had their “sex change operations” before the emergence of “transgender” as some sort of “umbrella term”.
What to do, what to do?
Actually, what many women of transsexual history do  –  they distance themselves from anything that has a “trans” prefix.  If they are straight, they often are very anti-gay.  If lesbian, they work within the lesbian community for their rights.
Unlike FtM’s, most MtF’s really had nothing like the supportive lesbian community so many FtM’s had.  There is  little support in their background.  Many spent years “hiding in plain sight”.
The level of rejection they receive from so many in the LGB world is nothing new  –  nor is the attempt by various “Transgender Leaders” to co-opt their lives.  It’s all just more of the same old.
So, a lot of post-ops just go their own way  –  simply because there is no community that accepts them for themselves.
“Style Guides” be danged  –  I had SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery), a good old fashioned “sex change”   —-   that was OUR language, now, those who are not us, are taking it away.  

last reply, it is lateI was responding to yuour stated desire:

I’d love to know what brought you to that conclusion.

Plain and simple.  No histrionics, no screaming, no whining.
But, since you brought the original back out again, let me address it.

You honestly think there is “no harm” in perpetuating (and defending as legitimate) the use of language used to demonize people?

As originally stated, my response was that, unless there was malice forethought involved, the intent to harm was not there; this was a bigger knee-jerk reaction than many on the far right jump around claiming.  Do I protest when I am attacked, physically or verbally?  Of course, it is basic human nature.  Should we force everyone else to our way of thinking and being?  Gee, that would make a dull world and be a very procustean solution to a problem that exists only if we let it.  Sometimes education and discussion can do more than bullying and threats.  Gee, I wounder if that is how I kept both jobs;  Well, maybe that and the fact that I am good at what I do and don’t backstab my coworkers but bring them up with me by teaching them what I know on the way.  Would I like my Driver’s License to have that glorious little “F” under the gender marker?  Heck yeah!  But, I will not let it, or anyone else, define who I am.  Only I can do that.
I haven’t seen this much name-calling since second grade…
Diana

Hands you your Lesbian cardAnd now that is in the past and you are one of the lot of us pushy dykes…(smile)

“gender idenity” nonsenseAutumn has waged war on women of corrected history in the past and tries to enforce police action on language that deliberately erases the neurological birth condition formerly known as transsexuality and those who have had the cure for it (SRS)and wish to not be dragged back to a “third sex” under some imposed from the outside umbrella term that is only fairly recent in it’s oppressive use.
This whole gender identity and gender “change” thing is all based on the totally discredited theories of John Money.  The use of gender is so loose as to be essentially meaningless but in terms of “gender identity” (the default the gender deconstructionist crowd returns to) there is absolutely zero evidence that gender identity is even subject to change but an increasing body of scientific evidence that it is hardwired into the neo-natal development of the central nervous system exactly the same as sexual orientation.  The GLAAD “guidelines” and definitions are, in fact, defamations of an entire group in the queer universe so using them here as gospel actually violates Pam’s TOS.  I’ll probably have my account fried just for saying this again.
People who have not corrected a transsexual birth condition have zero right to dictate language about those who have.  Someone else asked “how many corrected women telling you a term is offensive does it take to get the point they find ‘transgender’ offensive applied to themselves” and yet here we find a case of a post corrected woman who’s correction is the legal issue and TG activists insisting that it’s somehow offensive to use language that reflects that?  The very discussion of this has essentially been banned here by language policing that removes the words needed.  But consider this point, if women who corrected their bodies are part of this “transgender community” as is insisted, then who are the actual experts on this whole “sex change” thing?  Those who actually did so and emerged on the other side as women or men or those who have not, and often have no intention of ever doing, traveled the entire journey?  Again, how many times do we have to say “transgender is offensive to us used for us” before anyone else pays attention?  Who gave the right for those who have not taken this journey from one side to the other to dictate the terminology?  Especially when it’s “enforced” by those who aren’t even trans anythings by any definition?
You cannot change your gender.  If you are born with a gender identity (hardwired in the central nervous system) at odds with your somatic development, you can cure it by correcting the sex (physical attributes of men and women).
Transgender isn’t even remotely an accurate term for someone born transsexual, essentially it’s a nonsense term according to the science.
MatthewAPN is absolutely correct and I hereby let him know that this “terminology” policing exists only by way of deliberate silencing of an entire POV here and elsewhere.  It is far far far from universally accepted in particular by those who actually have been erased.  It is a direct result on the war on those of us who live in the same sexual binary that 99.9% of the rest of the world does.

anyone who can understand my point….I have had a petition up at:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com… for over a year.  It is barely noticed because of a campaign by trans activists to keep mention of it limited to a few small traffic blogs only and off any LBGt general site.
If you oppose a group forcing a definition on another group in open defiance of the expressed wishes of the defined group, please visit and sign.  You can do so anon if you wish.

“Do we get to use Christianist Extremist to refer to Michelle Bachmann and Ruben Diaz?”I usually do – though, at least with Bachmann and her ilk, I tend to add ‘anti-constitutionist’.

Awww, poor little victim.I have reviewed my above comment several times, trying to figure out what names you think I called you.  There are none.  NONE. Trying to set yourself up as a victim of something (and something completely imaginary, at that) when you have clearly not been victimized in any way, merely disagreed with, is as pointless as most of the rest of what you’ve posted.  Save your whining for someone who finds it interesting, okay?

This petition is a TOS violationFrom Section A of the Pam’s House Blend Terms And Conditions Of Service:

10. a) You may not post or transmit charity requests, petitions for signatures without prior consent of PAM SPAULDING or the Baristas.

No consent was requested, and none was given.

for the record….I missed this “rule” and emailed the address required for either retroactive permission or failing that allowing removal of the link.

“if it angers a large number of people it needs rethinking”Is 152 people a large number?  Is it when you consider it’s in a mostly stealth group that does not read trans internut stuff?  Statistically speaking, all things being equal it can be safely multiplied by a factor of at least ten….so is 1520 people a large number?
That’s how many find the GLAAD definitions on trans issues defaming you know…so far.
And it is downright amazing that the term “sex change” is only found problematic by those who didn’t have SRS…..
Sex does, after all, specifically refer to one’s physical (genital) reality, especially in the term sex change.

We referred to “sex change” once in the title- because, again, she did change her sex.and this is where YOU ARE WRONG!
she never changed her sex.she was always a female. she had surgery to match the outer body with the person who carried it. lets say a child was born with three arms, and surgery was done to remove one. would you call that ‘arm number change’ sometimes nature makes an oops. and we have technology to fix that.

Actually, I should have refined my final commentIt should have said “In reference to a lot of the comments”, followed with what I said.  I am sorry to have driven you crazy trying to find the corner in the round room.  :P
As to the victim barb, hey! sounds like projection to me; I refuse to be a victim, and certainly don’t wallow in self-pity whining about things.   I would rather work for change than whine about it or any perceived persecution from the bullies.  I would rather die trying than live whining.  my life is a testimony to that, should have died by 20 if I listened to so-called specialists.  and here I am at 45, still kicking.

permission for the link has been givencan we now remove the flashing cop light?

SorryA function of Soapblox that we are unable to edit out individual comments/ posts on a “pick and choose” basis.