NOTE FROM PAM: It was late into the day yesterday when I finally read the Ronald Gold piece at The Bilerico Project, and the resulting fallout was well under way. I waited for Autumn to compose her reactions for readers; I asked to share this space in her post to include my reaction (it’s below the fold). I wanted our thoughts to be together to preserve and unite trans and ally reaction to this incident.
NOTE 2 FROM PAM: You have to read this fantastic post by Dr. Jillian Weiss, “Transphobia In the Gay Community.”
If a whole bunch of trans people tell you that your words are transphobic, they’re right.~Alison Robinson
On so many levels, I dislike negatively commenting on lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) inclusive publications and blogs that are generally friendly to trans people, but now have engaged in some sort of “anti-______ sentiment” — especially antitrans sentiment.
I also don’t like commenting on LGBT organizations in a negative way – I like to get in contact with the organization first, and see what their response will be to the something I find to be expressing “anti-______ sentiment.”
And, I expect to see some mistakes; we’re human, and that means we’re prone to make mistakes. Sometimes, we don’t know when we’re expressing “anti-______ sentiments,” and we have to engage in mea culpas after learning of our mistakes. Gawds know I learned some lessons related to making public mistakes during the weeks of the cissexual/cisgender discussion on our site that turned viral — I blew it big time, and had to eat lots of crow.
So, I don’t jump on people in a vacuum; I try to treat my LGBT peers with the same deference that I’d like to be treated with. I remember what it was to have felt that like the whole trans community was against me. So remembering the humanity of myself and others, I’m less willing these days to get on my soapbox and say something bad about people and organizations I consider part of the LGBT community — those others that are just as human as I am.
So that out of the way, let me again quote that Bayard Rustin quote from my personal mission statement — the quote that oddly was the subject of yesterday’s Q Of The Day:
“[T]he job of the gay community is not to deal with extremists who would castigate us or put us on an island and drop an H-bomb on us. The fact of the matter is that there is a small percentage of people in America who understand the true nature of the homosexual community. There is another small percentage who will never understand us. Our job is not to get those people who dislike us to love us. Nor was our aim in the civil rights movement to get prejudiced white people to love us. Our aim was to try to create the kind of America, legislatively, morally, and psychologically, such that even though some whites continued to hate us, they could not openly manifest that hate. That’s our job today: to control the extent to which people can publicly manifest antigay sentiment.”
–Bayard Rustin; From Montgomery to Stonewall (1986)
There is an example of horrid antitrans sentiment that was posted on a blog I previously considered very trans-friendly: Bilerico. The post in question was written by Ronald Gold — and Ron Gold is no gay slouch. A short bio from Queer By Choice:
Ron Gold was one of the five original founders of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in the USA, and he was the driving force behind the movement that got the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from its list of “mental illnesses” in 1973. In his article “Morality and Homosexuality: Gays Must Take Up the Affirmative Argument,” which is reprinted with his permission on Frank Aqueno’s Queer by Choice website, Ron Gold writes that when queer people hear homophobic remarks, “we must stop answering that we’re proud of who we are, but anyway we can’t help it. We must declare the truth: We have made a moral choice.” …
Apparently now, Ronald Gold is taking his moral choice argument, and applying it in the negative. From his first piece as a Bilerico contributor comes a piece entitled ‘No’ To The Idea Of Transgender.
Gold begins his piece at Bilerico by engaging in offensive stereotyping of trans people, and functions as a trans people and community denier:
What is transgender? Well, there are two sorts who seem to be covered by the name, the drag kings and queens so good at portraying cartoon imitations of straight people, and transsexuals, the folks who report that from an early age they’ve felt themselves trapped in the wrong bodies. Despite the equipment they were born with that belies their assertions, they say they are really men or really women.What does it mean to be really a man or a woman? Since it’s not about genitalia, it must be about personality, and what, one asks, is a male or a female personality?
Even straight people nowadays concede that some men are the warm, loving type that used to be thought exclusive to women, and some women are the strong, action-oriented sort that used to be thought exclusive to men. And lesbians and gay men have always known that people of the same gender can be very different from each other. Isn’t it true that those we form mated relationships with are always complementary – even polar opposites – to ourselves?
Let me state it categorically. There is no such thing as a male or female personality. Personality is not a function of gender.
So where does that put the concept of transgender? In my view, down the tubes! And that leaves the further questions of how “transsexuals” got to think the way they do, and what to do to resolve their dilemmas. I hope I’ll be forgiven for rejecting as just plain silly the idea that some cosmic accident just turned these people into changelings. What happened, more than likely, is that, from an early age, when they discovered that their personalities didn’t jibe with what little boys and girls are supposed to want and do and feel, they just assumed they mustn’t be real little boys and girls.
Genderqueers, crossdressers, gender fluid people, and female-to-male trans folk don’t exist in Ronald’s dichotomy of trans experience — the dichotomy that only includes parodies of women and deluded male-to-female transsexuals.
Just to make sure that those who think Mr. Gold isn’t including those who subscribe to the concepts of Harry Benjamin Syndrome — or perhaps identify as a classic transsexual or a woman of transsexual history — Ronald Gold says this about genital reconstruction surgery (emphasis added):
As for adults struggling with what to do about their feelings, I’d tell them too to stay away from the psychiatrists – those prime reinforcers of sex-role stereotypes – and remind them that whatever they’re feeling, or feel like doing, it’s perfectly possible with the bodies they’ve got. If a man wants to wear a dress or have long hair; if a woman wants short hair and a three-piece suit; if people want romance and sex with their own gender; who says they can’t violate these perfectly arbitrary taboos? A short historical and cross-cultural survey should establish that men and women have worn and done all sorts of stuff. I recall reading something by Jan Morris in which it seemed that he thought he needed a sex change because he wanted men to hold doors open for him and kiss him goodbye at train stations. For starters, I’d have told him that I’ve had these nice things happen to me and I’ve still got my pecker.
Basically, Ronald Gold is telling transsexual women that our female gender identities are illusion — biology is destiny. He assumes crossdressers are essentially the same thing as drag queens, and horribly he doesn’t acknowledge genderqueer and female-to-male trans folk even exist.
I am very much aware that Mr. Gold is an activist of historic proportions for the gay and lesbian portion of the LGBT community, but Mr. Gold has definitely not stayed with the times — he’s a very much a transphobic, transmisogynistic dinosaur in our community’s civil rights movement.
Described in a more snarky way, Ronald Gold’s views on trans people strikes me as being in the same vein as religious right loons — Ronald Gold seem now to be the Ronald McDonald of Bilerico LGBT contributors. Gold’s views are as clownishly evil as James Hartline, Mike Hein, or Peter LaBarbera, and his attitude towards trans people reminds me of that former manager at the Orlando McDonalds who called a 17-year-old, African-American trans woman a “f—–t.” Yeah, the Ronald McDonald of Bilerico LGBT contributors seems to fit.
And, that Bilerico Editor-in-Chief Bil Browning gave Mr. Gold a forum for his vile and hateful piece is beyond the pale. When the piece originally posted, they had no comment on the piece indicating the piece was an opposition piece, and not in alignment with their editorial viewpoints and their terms of service agreement. Someone at Bilerico then put up this header:
Editors’ Note: All posts published on Bilerico Project do not reflect the opinions of nor any endorsement by the Editorial Team. Many Bilerico readers and contributors have found Ronald Gold’s op-ed offensive or needlessly coarse. The idea behind Bilerico Project is to encourage dialogue among different facets of the LGBT community that might normally never interact this intimately. We encourage all readers to continue responding to Mr. Gold in the same spirit his post was written – with positive intent while bluntly stating your own opinion and experiences.
Positive intent? POSITIVE INTENT??? It’s unconscionable that Bilerico gave a voice to Gold’s bigotry at any point in time, but it’s especially questionable timing to post that vile bigotry when ENDA is being discussed. The disclaimer above the piece is completely inadequate as there was absolutely zero positive intent in the post. To me, everything about Bilerico posting this horrid and vile piece is an Epic FAIL.
And by the way, remember that Gold’s bio includes a reference to being a founding member of The Task Force? When I inquired, this is the response I received from Inga Sarda-Sorensen — Director of Communications National Gay and Lesbian Task Force:
The [Bilerico] post in question in no way represents the perspectives of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, nor was its author serving as a representative of, or spokesperson for, the Task Force. The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force is fully committed to transgender equality, which we work for every day at the local, state and federal levels.
Good to hear.
I know more than one trans person, by the way, is making the ENDA connection to Bilerico’s editorial choices as of late. From Jayna L-Pavlin of Trans-Ponder:
“Bilerico has in my opinion served as an extension of certain movement leaders wanting the blog discourse steered a certain way in exchange for exclusive content and continued political good will. It feels as though we, the LGBT community, are being softened for a potential ENDA shakeup.Bilerico’s has made an editorial choice to, in essence, endorse Gold’s posting that disenfranchises transsexual women as inauthentic and considering other such articles such as Pedro Serrano’s statement that Jorge was dressed as a woman but has nothing to do with trans people and is an ‘authentic’ gay male. We have seen this tag before and it feels as though as of late its being given prominence, which is questionable timing.”
This post by Ronald Gold could have relevance to ENDA, I’m sure. We have religious right wingnuts like Lou Sheldon, Andrea Lafferty, Peter LaBarbera, and Matt Barber arguing against trans existence and transgender civil rights — now we have a historic gay activist arguing in the same vein against trans existence.
My message is this: I exist. I am transgender; I am transsexual. My peers and my civil rights are important. I refuse to let journalistic and intellectual attacks on my subcommunity of the LGBT community go unanswered — we can have and keep the moral high ground.
So, I will confront antitrans sentiment where I can, even when it’s expressed at an LGBT blogsite on which I’ve previously posted articles. I don’t like doing that, but I believe it’s practically required of me. We deserve better in the LGBT community than what Ronald Gold just served up to us with the blessings of Bilerico‘s editoral staff.
It’s Time to Draw a Line in Our Movement’s Sand
Now that Autumn has shared her POV about Ronald Gold’s fact-challenged and cruel piece, as well as the editorial decision to publish it, I wanted to put my thoughts down about this depressing event.
When I surfed over to read Gold’s now-deleted post, I was aghast at the topic and the approach taken — if his goal was to dismiss and demean the trans community, it has succeeded beyond all imagination. What’s amazing is this was published on a blog that has seen its fair share of trans-wars (something Autumn and I know all too well, as she mentioned); Gold took a flamethrower onto the subject of trans identity and turned it into alternately a delusion, or something to be dismissed and severed from the LGB community.
Of course, editorially speaking, Bil Browning and his ed team concluded that Gold’s approach and observations would generate productive discussion; they rolled the dice and we see the result — there’s not much to say about that since Bil did own the final decision to publish.
When it’s is your pad and it’s your decision to provide a platform for a truly broad spectrum of voices — even those you believe are controversial or even harmful to a part of the community – that’s one editorial tack to take. It can lead to bad decisions or ones that turn out not to be a big deal in terms of fallout.
I’ve run plenty of posts that I’ve not agreed with personally and I felt deserved debate, but given that the trans community is under such great siege by the right wing fundamentalists and haters at levels LGBs cannot begin to understand, I’ve felt that ethically I’m not able to post tripe like Gold’s and be able to claim a reputation as a bridge builder within our community. We have so many stress points within that to ratchet up the heat and hurt, particularly in the trans community given the proximity to the Mike Penner/Christine Daniels tragedy, that there isn’t any way to roll the Gold flap back now.
I would never tell any blog editor what they can or can’t publish, but when you do tread on a difficult topic, I always include an above-the-fold introduction that at the very least would help readers understand what the editorial thought was and put it into context, and to take that responsibly up front.
Without that, TBP Ronald Gold Express ran off of the rails. The explanation after the blow-up was successful on one front because responsibility was immediately taken, but the assessment that there was positive intent in Gold’s demeaning elimination of the T from LGBT was like throwing gasoline on a house burning down. Knowing what it feels like to be in an editorial inferno, any decision you end up making will piss off some group of those already angry. And today it came to this:
The Bilerico Project editorial team has unanimously decided to remove Ronald Gold’s contributor status and have taken down his previous post from the site. We regret that his words have caused so much hurt to so many in our community.
We appreciate all of the heartfelt responses and shared concerns about the post. This is only the third time a post has been removed from the site since the Bilerico blog started over five years ago; it is not something we take lightly.
We are very proud of our record of trans inclusion and participation and would never intentionally seek to harm anyone. We let you down this time and it won’t happen again.
Was removal of the post the right decision? I don’t know; probably so, but an argument can be made that Mr. Gold actually provided our movement with a line in the sand with his essay.
We have a big problem in our community — elements of it are not prepared to embrace or defend trans folk as a part of the movement, and Ronald Gold is surely not alone in his opinion. I’m sure he has shared that opinion with peers who agree, otherwise why would he have, without hesitation, publish hateful, irrational refuse for public consumption? It’s sad and shocking to see this manifestation of the problem, particularly in light of the ENDA debacle that brought out the worst in way too many gay men who shared their truth — throwing our transgender brothers and sisters under the bus to pass a trans-free ENDA was not a problem for them. And its still not a problem for Gold, since trans people are delusional and just need to get with the program.
I wonder how Gold explains the phenomenon of young children expressing gender variant behavior quite naturally, expressing themselves in a way that shows they are in touch with the fact that their bodies don’t match how they feel inside. Do these children, unexposed to trans folk, not exist for Gold?
These disconnects within the LGBT community about whether the T segment of it even exists as a group entitled to equal protection under the law is vile, and as I said, depressing. How can we fight the anti-trangender lobby when we have such ignorance and bigotry in our own house that is enabled and given voice as a legitimate position to debate? We have to draw a line in the sand — not whether to censor the opinion (that will always be debated), but are we willing to address a core problem of this movement, not how it manifests itself? I don’t have to think twice about whether the T belongs in LGBT; oppression is oppression. That’s an easy call. All or nothing on ENDA.
What I cannot fathom is erasure and dehumanizing as a debatable point in our community with ENDA moving forward next year.
~~~~~
Further Reading:
* Bil Browning at Bilerico: My Responsibility: The difference between “challenging” and “offensive”
* En / Gender: Ronald Gold Just Hasn’t Met the Right Woman
* Peterson Toscano’s A Musing: Calling all Transgender Allies (Yes YOU!)
* Erica Keppler: An New Perspective on Mr. Gold’s Post





88 Comments



“This post by Ronald Gold could have relevance to ENDA”It already does – given that it came from a man of the generation that ensured that what little trans political viability existed in the 1970s would be exterminated, and in way, shape or form would trans-anything be presumed to be under the ‘sexual orientation’ rubric.
You’re kidding, right?
If ENDA had been on the move earlier in the fall, these sorts of poisonous mushrooms (both of comission and omission; anyone else think it curious that a blog such as The John’s could manage to avoid mentioning the Zakerria Bellamy story, something conclusively demonstrating the connectivity between ‘anti-gay’ and ‘anti-trans’ for purposes of employment discrimination?) would have been sprouting then.
Those who don’t want us in ‘their’ bill will not be deterred by accurate characterizations of them as transphobes – or as ‘incremental progress hypocrites.‘
typothat was meant to be:
in no way, shape or form
The Golden RuleWhat’s perhaps the most worrisome to me from that post is the expectation that it will be used by the LaBarbera’s out there to further marginalize us by pointing out how even those in our own community agrees with THEIR assertions. There is little difference between the two views.
no, it was ironyOf course I can fathom it, but what I cannot fathom is we have to play this out in public — AGAIN.
Some Observations…1. The negative comments to Ron Gold’s post were almost, to the one, in all of the essays, from the transgender themselves…not the GLB as a whole.
2. Surely the transgender realize they have almost no support in any of Bilerico’s essays from the GLB…or any forum.
3. Once again, gay men are speaking to transgender and classic transsexual issues when they have no insight into them and SHOULD NOt DO SO.
4. Where was the support from the gays and lesbians for the transgender in all of these blog posts…certainly not in any of the comment sections?
5. The transgender, in spite of the above are so insecure they still support the GLBT contruct as of it was a “blanky nite nite.”
The thought has occurred to me…That the comment was thrown out there for exactly that purpose; in essence, it was appeasement. He thinks he will “help” things along for himself if a scapegoat is found.
Faust would be envious.
Thank youPam and Autumn, than you very much for expressing your thoughts in defense of the trans community.
There’s “controversial” and then there’s just plain wrong. Gold is wrong.It was as wrong to give a platform to Gold’s ignorant bigotry as it would be to give a platform to a white supremacist.
Insane that the post was writteni am reading up only now about the entire thing. i’ve managed to read only half of the infamous post which was up by pdf file and the one thing that runs through my mind is was it really necessary to be that ugly.
i just thought it was a rude and unneccessary thing to write and definitely unnecessary for bilerico to put up.
I don’t know . . . sometimes i feel that some of us in the community need to not concentrate on being “brutally honest” but using some discernment because we don’t always know what we are talking about and the community doesn’t revolve solely around us and our needs. we should be more cognizant of the fact that the lgbt community encompasses more than our social circles and our supposed spheres of influence. sometimes we can learn more about our fellow community members by simply being quiet and taking the time to educate ourselves on the facets of the lgbt community of which we aren’t familiar with.
i don’t think we do that enough. so many people are so busy putting in their two cents that they don’t recognize that sometimes everything that comes through their head don’t necessarily need an audience.
Well, your civil rights are not included by Gold either.Note his comment regarding the “pecker” you used to wear on your body.
And, tomorrow, Peterson Toscano will have that post here on PHB of gay men and lesbian women commenting on the Gold post. You’re speaking too soon about the lck of gay and lesbian people in support of trans community.
4 legs good, 2 legs bad..
Well, considering when last I looked at the “Upon Further Reflection” post that there was at least one comment made parroting Gold’s statements already, I have to imagine you’re right, and that there are many more that haven’t spoken that feel the same way.
As other more well-spoken people have said, and made me think about quite a bit, is that isn’t ALL of the LGBT community essentially transgressing gender in some way or form? When will they realize that the perceived differences don’t exist? Or is there some grand fear that by supporting the Trans community that they’ll somehow lose what “privilege” they feel they’ve gotten? The current state of the LGBT community reminds me of the end of Animal Farm; The pigs have learned to walk upright and wear clothes, and to paraphrase.. “All LGBT are equal, but some are more equal than others.”
ClarificationBah… re-reading my own comment – want to clarify that by “them” I’m referring to non-allies, not the GLB as a whole – I know that there’s a good number of GLB allies who do not feel the same way as Gold nor share his opinions of the Trans community.
Really…It took the TG minutes to start responding to Gold’s post and, at least at Bilerico, pretty much the only responses to that or any of the the other follow up posts came from the TG.
As for a groundswell of GL support, it’s never been there, and never will be. I guess three days later is a start. G
Just an observation…
That was my first thoughtKaren, that was exactly my first thought and I said as much in my own snarky way in my comment on Gold’s post. If anybody thinks Gold’s timing was an accident, they are either naive or totally clueless.
Ugh.I can’t seem to relate to Gold’s type, even when I try to appeal to their self-interest. There’s enough continuity among the people who hate us that we should all be working in solidarity — transphobes and homophobes usually don’t distinguish among us, and L, G, B, T people (and all combinations thereof) are all dealing with hate and violence because some people perceive us as “gender outlaws” of one flavor or another. And that’s even setting aside the moral demand of justice and fairness that Gold seems to have lost sight of…
I respondedAs a lesbian married to a transwoman, at any rate.
I said far less than I wanted to, because I was just so furious that I had trouble articulating something other than what I wanted to say, which was, “F–you, too you frigging has-been. Gee, wonder why you can’t find a publisher for your new book. Your publicity stunt was a big FAIL”. But I couldn’t say that to him, or I would have been violating the TOS.
Who the fuck is Ron Gold?I had no idea who he was until tonight when I started reading this stuff. Now that I kind of know who he is I could care less.
If his legend is important it’s just taken a turn for the worse.
Like many have said about the same-sex marriage follies, we need more backward thinking and stubborn old people to die so the world will evolve ever so slightly and that is true in this case too. The Ron Golds of the world are welcome to die off any old time now.
Also like the same-sex conversation, that observation doesn’t make me feel any better about stupidity. And that is what I think about Bilerico more often than not.
Maybe one out of ten posts at that site feel like they are purposely placed to be provocative – and not because conversation or discussion is lacking, but because it produces scores of comments. Many of the posts there do not rack up more than 20 comments unless the writer pushes a button HARD.
I have no idea what the logic or strategy is behind the promotion or maintenance or sustenance of a healthy competitive blog, but often at that site I feel like I’m listening to AM talk radio horseshit that I simply don’t need to make room for in my life.
I can get provoked by reading the paper and turning on the TV and by more than half of what I see on line. I sure don’t need to be poked in the ribs by frequenting LGBT blogs.
And that is why I never even bothered to read the Ron Gold post. By the time I got to it there were 300 comments. I knew just from that (and the first apology of two to come from Bil) that what was written was bullshit. I guess I was right.
If I had read the post – I am just a gay man – I might have commented but not if I saw scores and scores of comments that already stated my viewpoint. I’m sorry so many people were hurt and offended by the post.
For what it’s worth, trans bigotry is every bit as offensive and repugnant to me as homophobia is and if you ask me, transphobia makes Ron Gold have more in common with the Peter LaBarberas of the world than he does with me.
Autumn, can you get Chris Geidner’s take?He basically went apoplectic on twitter over this.
Geidner’s main idea seems to be that taking the post down was idiotic ass-saving and that it missed a good chance to school certain GLBs about the Ts.
“@firefaunx I’d rather address such issues head-on than pretend that the GLB part doesn’t need education sometimes.”
What struck me as odd is Mr.Gold chosing to write about transgenders at allHe seems to have no knowledge on the subject. I personally find venturing into trans threads uncomfortable,and I’ve had a couple bad experiences with individuals, but I still acknowledge, my limited knowledge about transgender people’s lives, and wouldn’t spew some made up nonsense that is the exact opposite from what I have read, written by trans people. Gold’s version is analogous to straight enemies continually saying gays CHOOSE to be gay, even though hundreds of thousands of us tell them we made no such choice, STILL they refuse to quit spewing it. Not taking the word of the person who is transgender, or a person who is gay, concerning their lives, strikes me as WILLFUL IGNORANCE, and I would want to know WHAT was the motivation of Gold choosing to write such a thing. I suspect the motivation has MALICE.
Is it fairto judge all LGBs by the response rate to one post on one blog? I, for example, didn’t know about the post until late yesterday because I don’t read Bilerico daily and only became aware something was happening via some tweets. By then there were almost 200 comments on the Gold post and there was nothing new for me to add so I didn’t (but I did re-tweet and initiate my own tweet thread criticizing the failure). Sometimes these things are just a matter of random timing. Remember, you are here on a blog run by a lesbian and heavily edited and commented on by other gay people, the vast majority of whom are completely T-inclusive. Be sure you know who you’re angry with and whether they deserve your anger. Shotgun anger does more damage than good, imo. This lesbian in 100% behind her trans brothers and sisters, and pissed as hell that one cruel asshole put us all through so much unnecessary pain and anger.
I saw a hillarious NEW catch phrase in a thread on queerty that seems to fit Ron Gold“Douche-fag”
I think you nailed it peteyThe piece was completely malicious and, I hadn’t thought of this until you pointed it out, but his dismissal of transfolk was very much like anti-gay bigots refusing to give gays the benefit of the doubt that we might know something about our own orientations.
I haven’t ever read Bilerico
I don’t know what comments you were readingbut the thread I read contained many, many comments that were from gay, lesbian, bisexual and straight trans and cisgender people excoriating Gold for his hate speech.
If you go here, you can read nearly 40 comments (at last count) from gay, lesbian and straight cisgender people that are very supportive of trans identities and agreeing with the criticism of Mr. Gold’s post: http://petersontoscano.wordpre…
Ron Gold Defends his Article:
The perfect example of cisgendered privilege. “I know nothing, but have the right to call you all deluded based on my whimsical conjectures, because I’m normal.”
I wish Ronald Gold had made an effort to defend his articleHis only response was the one you cited. I realize that 300 angry comments must be intimidating, but surely he knew that he was breaking open a hornet’s nest when he wrote the piece.
My concern is that all of this will not change his mind, nor the minds of those who agree with him. And I do know of many gay men who think as he does.
Zoe, you presented some excellent evidence in your comments. I hope Mr. Gold gives it some thought.
Ignorant Response
Can he not see that this is the same sentiment that is often used to justify calling being gay a sin?
He wanted attentionHe wanted attention. He got it. Apparently a bit hotter than he anticipated. But, you know, controversial!!eleventy! he’s so DARING to start off with a BANG like that…and end, too, oops
No. He can’t.Or won’t, which amounts to the same thing.
I have been so busy with my lawsuit that I missed thisI spent all day yesterday (and practically every waking moment the past few days, except for my job and a pre-scheduled lecture to a masters class) responding to the New York City Department of Health and Mental Health (DOHMH) motion to dismiss my “birth certificate” lawsuit.
So I missed the now-deleted Ron Gold article.
Let’s see, though. The City corporation counsel refers to me in the “Hoggan Affirmation” by male pronouns throughout. It is written that I “appeared as Joann Marie Prinzivalli” as if I was a man in costume, and about my New York State Driver’s license (issued in accordance with DMV regulations) . . . “his DMV driver’s license which identifies him as a female named Joann Marie Prinzivalli.”
I guess they would agree with Ron Gold.
The thing is, science has advanced, and people like the DOHMH bureaucrats, right wing Christianist Dominionists, and gay separatists like Ron Gold are all in the same sort of position as found in an old New York trial transcript:
William Sampson, Is a Whale a Fish? An Accurate Report of the Case of James Maurice Against Samuel Judd (New York 1819)
Sampson prosecuted the case for the tax collector who was trying to get $75 in taxes on “fish oil” for the 3 casks of spermacetti in Judd’s inventory. Judd’s defense was that the whale is not a fish.
Sampson managed to tear apart the evidence given by Dr. Mitchill, and produced his own “experts” leading the jury to conclude that the whale is indeed a fish, in accordance with common sense and the Bible.
Sampson won his case, and Dr. Mitchill became the laughingstock of the City of New York, and then the entire country.
Today, we know that a whale is a mammal, and not a fish, and that bats are mammals, and not birds. Classification systems were evolving in the period between Linnaeus and Darwin, and this case came as the whole semiotic understanding of the classification of animals was developing and changing.
Today, I am in the position of Dr. Mitchill, putting myself on the line. I am not happy that the City of New York, the religious right wingnuts, and Ron Gold, and all their ilk, still think that this whale is a fish.
I know they are wrong, and while I think I can prove it, I am not so sure that I will manage a victory. I am hoping to win in the state supreme court (Supreme Court in New York is like a Superior Court in another state – county level upper court). My problem will be the Appellate Division, First Department. The cases there on trans issues have been abominable, and there is aparently only one judge in the Appellate Division who “gets it.” As long as the Appellate Division is not unanimously against me, I might have a possibility at the Court of Appeals “getting it.”
Why am I doing this? DOHMH refused to issue me a copy of my birth record. I had to go to court to get an order to pry it out of them – which the court has already granted, so Trudy and I were able to get married in New York on November 8th (not without further issues, since the White Plains city clerk refused to issue us a marriage license – so we went to New York City, where the City Clerk’s marriage license bureau counsel took three hours of hemming and hawing and getting of second opinions, before we got cleared to get a license).
Since I had to buy an index number anyway, I’m looking for compensatory and punitive damages for the refusal to issue the birth record. If I get those, fine. If not, it’s not as if I didn’t try. I am also going to trot out the current science (the advances since 1995) on the issue of transseuxality as a kind of intersex anatomical difference (between the BSTc evidence and the two separate findings regarding WBT (long androgen receptor gene) and MBT (gene for enzyme that efficiently processes testosterone) genetic predispositions – there are physiological causes and effects, and the science makes it clear that transsexual and transgender people are not experiencing a psychiatric disorder, we are different, anatomically.
My point is that the designation of sex on my birth certificate is incorrect. It was not possible to know that at the time of birth, but we know better now. If the birth record is only an historical record of the assignment I was given at birth, it does not need to be changed, but since the DOHMH seems to think (and a lot of people accept) that the sex on the birth record is an official determination of sex assignment, and not even the Motor Vehicle people should dare presume any different, well, then I think the DOHMH needs to be taken down a peg or two.
They are not the gatekeepers of sex designation. The legal purpose for their Bureau of Vital Records is to maintain and correct borth and death records.
Their rule for correcting a birth record is onerous, arbitrary and capricious, and while it may not have been so in 1965, when the understanding of transsexual women was that we are delusional men, it certainly is arbitrary and capricious now.
While I am asking them to designate me as “female” I am willing to settle for the “blank” they used to give to post-ops. A blank does not conflict with the DMV classification of me as female. A classification as “male” on the birth record does conflict.
If there are only two available assignments, then female is appropriate, and that would be my preferred outcome, since no one has had any caselaw about what to do about people classified as “other” for their sex designation.
If marriage is between a man and a woman, what happens when one of the parties is an “other?” Should someone like me be able to marry a man, a woman, or another “other?” (The Roman Catholic Church answer is that people like me are “disordered” and can’t marry anyone at all – and I have an annulment of that marriage).
Yes, I know I am opening a can of worms. Yes, I know that, like Dr. Mitchill, I am likely to be treated terribly by the current know-nothing establishment.
Still, “E pur si muove.” I know who I am, win or lose.
Maybe he should have talked to the expertsI did not read the original post, I rarely spend much time on Bilerico, but from the section quoted here, it is clear that Gold did not do even a cursory examination of the scientific facts that completely destroy his argument.
There are most certainly male and female personalities, and they can be measured. It is more correct to say there are two different modes of intellectual processing and systems of interactions with the outside world, which we arbitrarily designate as male and female, but they are very much real. However, all of us have some mixture of the two personalities, although one tends to be stronger, and that does not match up perfectly with genetics or genitals. I, for instance, am a gay man who happened to measure as female when I took such a test during my psychology major – then again, so did the captain of the men’s lacrosse team who is now married with 4 kids, so they don’t correlate with orientation nicely either.
More importantly, has Gold never heard of intersex people? The very existence of human beings who are a physical and/or genetic mixture of the two genders proves that the development of gender and physical organs are independent processes. In fact we should, based on our knowledge of human biology and fetal development, expect transgender people to exist in the human species. The process of moving from a fertilized egg with specific genetic properties to a full-fledged baby requires a delicate and complicated interplay of genes and hormones – both male and female. It is neither surprising nor odd that there are people whose brains have developed differently than their other organs.
I’m with sabrinageek above that all LGBT people are, in some way, transgressing the cultural norms of gender, but that does not mean the biological basis for gender does not exist. However, gender is far more esoterically represented among humanity than the cultural norms currently allow for. Gold makes the huge mistake of assuming that gender is only cultural, in which case transgender would be a meaningless concept. It would have been nice if he had even bothered to determine that there were scientific facts that contradicted him.
RatioCertaibnly the vast majority of comments were from Ts, but GLBs certainly weren’t absent.
I’d guesstimate the ratio of T to GLB was perhaps 4 or 5 to 1 – perhaps more, but still not absent.
Bear in mind that I’m one of the harshest critics of Gold-types and do feel as though his mindset is far more pervasive in the GL community than most will acknowlege.
Still, there non-Ts who were repulsed by Gold and who stated so.
I’m intrigued by the notion of leaving the Gold thing up as an educational tool. Perhaps it should be, but on a page template which clearly sets it off as something other than a legitimate post. I too have the fear that everyone from Lou Sheldon to Alice Dreger will use the thing against us – but I’m sure they already will (hell, Gold seems like the type of vermin who might seek out those types and e-mail copies to them directly even if the piece remains down.)
i didnt think much of ron gold after reading his bio, in which he felt some need to tell us about his sexploits. “Has had four significant mated relationships beginning in the l950′s, with a Cuban, two Puerto Ricans (the second of whom died of AIDS after a 15 year relationship) and a Bangladeshi,”
Gold doesn’t strike me as intimidate-able
Gold doesn’t strike me as intimidate-able.
Actually, he seems like the gay male equivalent of Bill Donohue.
Thank you AbbyI was there; I dissected Gold’s post, I aised the suspicion that it might be part of a way to start the campaign to throw the trans under the bus, I objected and drew parallels with the Christian Right, I pointed out that Gold was more anti-trans than was fundamentalist Islam.
My responses earned a personal note from Mr Gold snarking at me by email.
Ad “Enough,” You know who I am and know that I am a Lesbian; you are simply taking the opportunity to begin the TG/HBS battle here again.
It read as“Look, I’m diversive- here is my collection to prove it!”
Ugh.
I hadn’t heard of him before 8pm last night either…
AgreedHe put a steaming pile of sh*t on TBP’s table then walked off, leaving them to clean it up.
My gut reaction
That someone who has the history Gold does spat out that mess, let alone felt it was acceptable fare for a public statement, let alone felt that it was a good “starter” piece- wtf?
Being pretty damned new to ALL LGBTQ history and trying to play “catch-up” as fast as time allows, I had never before heard of Ronald Gold and quite honestly, I don’t WANT to know more than I do.
I read a bit about his personal history last night- and had the feelings of disgust and revulsion I would have had if it was revealed that in his spare time, Gandhi used to kick kittens and puppies for sport.
Then there’s the decision by TBP to have the post run. Never mind that they eventually took it down (and I can see both sides of the controversy regarding that decision- not sure what I would do, in those shoes…)- how does one explain that?
To my VERY new perspective and read, Gold takes the entire T spectrum and essentially says, “None of you exist. None of you are valid. You’re all the same in that you’re confused expressions of binary options. Thank you for playing and here’s your prize- NEXT!”
If I am grossly over-simplifying, my apologies. On first sips of coffee and going on pure reaction based on what I felt 9 hours ago on the one time I read the piece, so this is a heartfelt comment and probably not as factual an analysis as the topic deserves.
Autumn and PamTHANK YOU.
FWIW, this post right here with its important links should be kept as a “static” or some way accessible for future reference/ a teaching tool.
(((HUGS)))To you and Phyllis both, Susan. I do understand the fury as a spouse…
YupIf I ever needed an example to understand cisprivilege (which I have and am starting to “get”), this one goes a loooooong ways.
Christonnapony, this is some effed up stuff.
Bilerico’s reaction has been disgustingI notice that there is still a Pam’s advertisement on the site. I hope we’ll see that removed shortly. Certainly I’ll be writing to advertisers and writers suggesting they have nothing to do with the place.
It’s not just the post that mirrors the right wing hate groups, but also the reaction. First to deny and vacillate and then to try to erase any evidence it happened. Nobody over at that hate-mongering rag has taken any sort of responsibility. Rather they have run around like cockroaches, the light suddenly turned on, trying to limit damage. They didn’t remove the post because it bothered transpeople. They removed the post because the reaction bothered them.
Wait – “MATED?”Seriously? Does he live in a zoo with a forced breeding program? And then discussing people by their ethnicity, making it a noun instead of a descriptor? Ew. Yuck. Fail.
I’m starting to see more than parallels to white supremacy – more like, if you’re a bigot towards one group, of course you’re more likely to be a bigot towards another… Any “othering” props the bigot up.
Also – chalk me up as another who had no idea who this fool was until this, and really don’t care now.
He was presented with evidence, but refuses to see…Actually, a wonderfully patient person (Zoe) apparently presented quite a bit of scientific evidence and facts in the original thread, and then posted again in the continuation. Here: http://www.bilerico.com/2009/1…
That comment includes Mr. Gold’s response to being presented with scientific evidence -
Okay, so he doesn’t want to examine any new research, and bases his opinions on research he “plowed through” years ago, research that has since been shown to have been wrong. He also makes conclusions that he felt the early research was “flawed” in their methods, as if he is a qualified experimental researcher to make those judgements. He can’t be bothered to “plod” through any new research because he hasn’t the stomach for it. Yes, because it might contradict his thinking and he might have to alter his perspective. I doubt there’s any amount of scientific research that could change his opinion, because it doesn’t matter how much evidence there is for something if you refuse to accept it. His behavior smacks very much of the same types of things I see coming from faith-based arguments.
It’s not a matter of not having the information, rather, it seems like he doesn’t want or care that it exists.
Yes, I liked that!So forgive my future absence on the thread for awhile; my first (and so far only) “Caucasian White Bread Mate” (TM) and I are going to take our “bred in
wedlockcaptivity offspring” Xmas shopping.Where should I look for a replacement mate, because it never hurts to be thinking ahead? “Diversity R Us”?
I’ll let ya all know if/when I add another mate to the collection!
OMFG.
My comment for the religious right…If as pointed out the religious right would try to use this piece of garbage for political purposes on pending legislation, my comment would be…
“We have nutbags in our community just as you do in yours. Fortunately for us, ours make up a small percentage of the overall community, whereas for you it seems to be a litmus test for entry!”
at the risk of being banned againI feel I must make a comment on the Gold kerfuffle. The outrage was justified and mostly aimed at the mis-gendering of Jan Morris, the use of the words deluded and mutilated in reference to transsexual women.
And yet for more than 15 years I have had the hurled at me the exact same words, the exact same denial of my womanhood only by “transgender” identified activists without anyone other than other women of transsexual history showing any outrage! Talk about a double standard.
Ron Gold took the idea of universal gender deconstruction to it’s logical end to justify his positions and many trans people agreed with him on that part in the Bilerico thread with no apparent acknowledgement that Bindle and Raymond also are universal gender deconstructionists….as are they.
The hew and cry for open discussion of the differences within the communities rings totally hollow to my ears (eyes)in light of the more than a decade denial of the complaints of women of transsexual about the erasure of their identity and forced inclusion in a group that hates and insults them. A discussion that has been forbidden on this blog on the front page.
Trans and trans allies need to remove this beam from their eye before they can honestly address the mote in Gold’s.
Is this discussion even possible? Experience tells me my own efforts failed completely and yet it remains the skeleton in the closet.
I’ve had exactly the same thought.Gold’s denial of trans identity doesn’t strike me as significantly different from the ex-gay movement’s assertion that gay people aren’t “really” gay but have just been screwed up in ways that keep us from recognizing our “true” hetero natures and the supposed wisdom of leading heterosexual lives. If Paul Cameron and Richard Cohen are bigots, what does that make Ronald Gold, whose mindset is virtually identical (but not about himself, of course, only about “the other”)?
“positive intent”I’m reminded of a quote from Graham Greene:
For me, Ludwig Wittgenstein said it best
Which is why I generally don’t comment on trans issues or trans experience. I am not trans and therefore I don’t know.
Mr. Gold’s essay was (to say the least) callous, cruel, and irresponsible. But (most significantly) it was ignorant.
Intersex
His remarks to me on that subject:
What do you mean you are intersexed? From most of the stuff I’ve read “intersex” seems to be entirely about women with enlarged clitorises who have sometimes been misidentified as males, and sometimes forced to undergo clitorectomies.
SIGH
:headondesk::headondesk::headondesk:
My task of laying the information before him is a little larger than I thought.
Never mind. Excelsior and all that Jazz. I really don’t know whether to laugh or cry though.
*** Gives friend Zoe a virtual hug ***Yeah, your forhead has got to reeeeeeally hurt…you tried to explain, I saw, but he didn’t seem to be trying to listen and learn in return.
What a way for Mr. Gold to destroy his own legacy though. What a shame.
Racist much, Mr. Gold?
Racist much, Mr. Gold? What is the significance of their ethnicity exactly?
Or maybe he thinks he’s the gay Lucy Ricardo?
Or something….just…wow!
No…I’m finished and done with any participation in the gender debate and stated so on my blog back in October; I gave the reasons why I would no longer participate in that same post. I’ve not made any posts on my blog on the gender debate, I’ve not commented on other blogs on the gender debate, nor have I participated in the TG/TS/CT/HBS/WBT/GQ gender debate in any way whatsoever since I said I wouldn’t on my blog last October. On a few rare occasions I have linked to GLBT issues though…and will continue to if so compelled.
I’ve also stated numerous times that I do not support HBS…and though you know that, Maura, you continue to infer that I do. Why you continue to make the inference that I do support HBS when I have categorically stated that I do not is beyond me but please carry on if that’s what you want to do.
And yes, though there were a few negative responses to Ron Gold’s Bilerico post (as well as to the follow up rebuttal posts at Bilerico) from some gays and lesbians, including supportive comments from you, at least so far, there has been anything but a groundswell of repudiation from the gay and lesbian sector on Mr. Gold’s post.
I get what you’re saying, kev…But wouldn’t that analogy be very similar to allies not speaking up?
No, you are not T and neither am I. I am also not G, L or B.
Yet I MUST speak up when something like this happens- welcome to the Land of A!
And that saidAs I told you in November, I greatly respect and admire how hard and honestly you have worked to increase your own personal knowledge, and it has helped/encouraged me do the same. (((HUGS)))
Speak out against the bigotry, yesof course.
I’m saying that Mr. Gold spoke up giving his view on trans experience itself.
Speaking out against the bigotry, well that’s the human thing to do…
Then again if the most significant thing about these four long-term “mates” that Mr. Gold has is their ethnicity (as the comment above alleges) then that says just as much about his privileged ass as his transphobia.
Oh, Louise, hugs are accepted. But considering all the talk about fisting lately, how ’bout some “fisting” in lieu of a hug (well, this was fisting according to Faux News…)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3ke-…
Gold and/or Bilerico?Does Bilerico Project deserve blowback as much as Gold?
Obviously, the author is in need of a wake-up call and it would be interesting (although it also feels like rubbernecking today) to hear a response from him, but what about Bilerico for their role in this provocation?
What exactly was the point of publishing Golds piece? Do the authors get to post whatever they want? Is there an editorial approval process?
I’m not suggesting that there should be censorship or a panel of intelligencia that approve or disapprove of what gets discussed in our forums.
I just don’t understand how the post got published in the first place. Of all the sites I check out on a daily basis – Pam’s, SLOG, Gist, Bilerico, Towleroad, – Bilerico has the most participation from an array of T writers and comments.
What were they thinking? Was this a misguided attempt to draw attention? That’s the only conclusion I can draw for the Gold piece.
Really – what’s the deal?? Help us understand…
I completely agree.And Gold is not a member of the GLBT community. He’s a member of the elitist exclusionary gay community, though I hesitate even to call him gay when he sounds more like a heterosupremacist.
I wish there were a copy of his post still available somewhere though. I only read the first part of it, because I just had my top surgery Thurs. and I felt like I’d been run over by a bus as it was.
HA!Tell ya what, send me your real life addy (click on the eyes on left) and I’ll mail out some of the best damned chocolate fudge you’ll ever have! Or apple butter- or both- your choice!
Love ya, kev- and I’ve got to contact JohnVisser and make the same offer… :)
Good questionsI know whenever we here think a post might be controversial, there is some talk behind the scenes/ heads’ up talk beforehand. And for myself, I occasionally post w/o comment press releases that I don’t agree with but think others might want an opportunity to read or comment upon.
The intentions are important and I’d be curious as to the answers myself… TBP is a good site!
I am going to comment positively about one thing . . .
Ron Gold has a point, about some trans kids. But I think he has a misplaced cause.
Look at what the Christianists say about marriage equality in their scare ads – that “gay” will be taught in the schools as “just as good” a straight.
You know what? Is they want ‘sex’ out of the elementary schools, they have to toss Cinderella, Snow White, Aladdin and all the other Disney straight “princess” stories out, too.
When a little pre-gay boy who only knows that girls are the ones who get to marry handsome princes, and he knows that when he grows up he wants to marry a handsome prince, yes, he might think he must be a girl.
But a good number of these kids are not little pre-gay and pre-lesbians, enough of them are really trans-kids.
If the child persists even after learning that she can marry a princess or hhe can marry a prince, then meybe that child is really trans. The problem is that the reparative therapists like Zucker don’t care – Like Ron Gold, they think all these kids must be pre-gay and pre-lesbian.
It is unfortunate that Ron correctly identifies a part of a problem, but gets the solution wrong.
Hmmmmmmm this reminds me….Some areas of the psychological profession who subscribe to a belief that we transfolk suffer from what’s called “autogynephilia”.
This was a malady made up by “psychologist” Ray Blanchard, who is deluded into thinking we’re all gay men who love femininity to the point we turn it into a fetish. This is also promoted by the notorious J. Michael Bailey and Anne Lawrence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A…
http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/…
http://www.genderpsychology.or…
Gold’s diatribe sounds alot like the beliefs of these three quacks.
wowThanks for guiding me to Peterson Toscano. Wonderful stuff. Reared in a strong Faith home but totally confused in my gender feelings I am still in a struggle decades hence. This material is so encouraging and exciting I am astonished (& I haven’t even read any of the thread comment material you reference). I have bookmarked his blog and subscribed to the YouTube list.
Hrmmm…strange thingsI read Gold’s post after a 16 hour shift and was convinced I was on the wrong site….when I came back to it more awake it was down…It does draw a couple of things out no matter how unpleasantly he did.
The first of which is that Transphobia is alive and well and even so within the community as a whole…Personally there are a lot of folks that don’t get transgendered folk (I would even include myself in that number most days) and we are not otherwise compelled to find out more about it. I really feel that the main reason (at least for me) might be the difference in gender identity versus sexuality. It is a concept that I accept, because I think people have a right to “BE”.
This is not to say that I do not support equal rights and protections…I certainly do not subscribe to Mr. Gold’s schizophrenic ideas….sometimes I don’t get it, but in all what we need to “GET” is some equal rights for all. Take the time to educate and learn from each other and we can work through the phobia…which is most certainly caused by a lack of understanding.
Hi There
Yes, its me, once again.
First off, I’m a contributor over there. Don’t hold that against them, though.
Secondly, although “EnoughNonsense” and I are, typically, at odds to a degree which many think of as untenable, she’s right, and it is indeed foolish for anyone to ignore it.
What Mr. Gold wrote is not only widely shared among the greater LGB community, but is something that people who read and post to sites such as Bilerico and PHB also believe, although they don’t say it.
My history here at PHB is filled with a lot of head butting with other regulars — and yes, I am a regular, lol. Indeed, a lot of the regulars have publicly stated that if I’m involved in a thread — or, more frequently, if it has anything to do with trans issues — they avoid it.
Their excuse is “transfolk are too angry”. Well, now you all have yet another example of why we are so angry.
Some people — such as the gal noted above — use that to try and divide us — to separate the T from the LGB, just like he did, and, as noted herein, people who do that use the same arguments that are used against all of us.
Bil knows he screwed up. He’s very aware of how hurt the community is — to a degree that’s pretty new to him, as well. I daresay that TBP has had more big blowups and fights and arguments than PHB has had. And the result of that is what you saw in the comments.
Bil didn’t say those things, though.
ANd there is a mistake being made by many, as well. Mr. GOld did have positive intent.
Because to him, and to other people who share his views, the separation of LGB and T, and the reduction of trans lives to just “those sorry freaks over there” are positive things.
That he’s ignorant and had knew absolutely nothing about what he was talking about was revealed in literally the second sentence of the post.
If you forget that — forget that he had no idea what he was talking about — you give all his ramblings, all the hurt and misery he caused, more power.
At that moment, that first paragraph, before he got into all the serious hurt and everything else, you should have known that he was talking out his ass.
Yes, Bil should have known that.
So should have you. And acted accordingly, right then, before even going below the fold.
But do not forget that he is not only not alone, he’s voicing something thought by more people than think otherwise.
There are clubs here in Phoenix where when you go in them, you can feel it — feel the sheer hostility towards your presence if you are trans of any sort that isn’t approved.
Men are worse about it than women, but women are, to be blunt, just as bad.
So read all those comments. Read the posts and the statements, and I am not talking to the trans people here.
I’m talking to everyone else. Each and everyone of you, supportive or not.
Read all that stuff.
And then remember that trans people are not the only ones who can educate others.
But all too often, we are the only one’s who do.
Yeah, that one took the prize.“Can someone do the homework for me? I mean
afterI write the inflammatory, obnoxious, bigoted piece?”“Oh, well, thanks, but tl:dr. Now, back to me…”
wolfgangcongrats on the top surgery
Thanks!It’s such a relief–epic level. They were so heavy, and impossible to bind. I look forward to finally seeing my pecs when the big bandage comes off.
yeahmy friend Leeroy just had his a few weeks ago and he is soo happy! I can imagine it applies to you too
Advertisement still there… Draw a real line in the asne. There’s site a Pam’s House Blend advertisement on Bill-Hate-O.
Well this gay man has always considered Transgender people no different than myself and equal members of our community. We all face discrimination based upon who we are and we fight or fall as one.
A far as the rest of society goes, gays enjoy a higher level of acceptance. In general the comfort level with gay men and lesbians is stronger. The animus and ignorance towards the transgender community is much more virulent.
I don’t think that’s fair but I know plenty of straight liberals who are cool with gays and lesbians but are uncomfortable with Transgender people.
It’s incumbent upon those of us who enjoy “gay privilege” to work with our Transgender members of the family to dispel the ignorance and hatred holding their equality back.
For Whatever It’s Worth…Yes, Bil made a mistake, and yes it was a massive one. I and countless other transfolks and allies have called him out on it and no doubt will continue to. Yet, some of what I have read people saying about him and the site is completely unfair and frankly, from people who should know better.
Bil underestimated the hurt Gold’s post would cause to transpeople. Of this there is no doubt. However, to try to say that this was done deliberately, maliciously, or for the sake of gaining site hits is not only untrue but ridiculous if you know anything about Bil and the kind of person he is.
Bil is being raked over the coals by people trying to insert their own perceptions into his. He’s being accused of motivations that no only have no basis in fact, but even have no basis in rationality. What site hits he might have generated could not possibly offset the damage that has been done here.
I would ask that you put yourself in his position. He thought he was doing something that would generate conversation at the site, a bad idea that terribly, horribly backfired. Should he be condemned for that, or, perhaps, should there be an effort to educate first, and maybe, just maybe, he could be offered the same benefit of the doubt anyone of you might expect for themselves?
Bil screwed up, he apologized, and I can tell you for a fact that steps are being taken to prevent it from happening again. Must you continue to vilify him or maybe you could offer your help in seeing that the lessons that need to be learned from this are learned and the site is made better as a result?
Frankly, of all people, I thought you, Autumn and Pam, would understand and know better than this, given your experiences here. It is now clear to me that you have learned nothing from that experience. More’s the pity.
Shame on you.
No excuse for “mutilation” and “delusion”There is no excuse for that piece with the terminology it contained to run in any GLBT publication anywhere. It is not just a mistake or judgement call, it is demonstrative of a vast vast lack of any sort of respect for transgendered people. Anyone who would green light it is by definition unfit to act in any way as a representative of our community or an editor of a publication for it.
Nor has he made any sort of apology other than the faux apology of a little boy who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
its absolutely correct to villify…Bil is complicit and an accessory and when called out on the piece he defended it…..eventually getting around to do the right thing is less than admirable. Why should others make his site better; let him do that, the flak received is well justified. He has harmed this community and giving him a pass on it because oh he has learned his lesson? No one is not yet convinced the lesson is learned and is wondering why at this point in this struggle for rights he could have been so dense on these issues in the first place to think an attack of this sort was at all ‘positive’.
No it isn’t……it’s evidence of ignorance, and ignorance is curable.
Like so many, you are trying to ascribe motives to Bil that simply aren’t valid. I was a member of the Bilerico edteam for several months and I have worked with Bil closely. Bilerico has the large diverse collection of trans contributors and readers it does because Bil, Alex, and Jerame proactively worked to make it that way. When they brought Marti Abernathey and I on as editors, one of our primary tasks was to seek out and nominate quality trans bloggers for guest and contributor slots. We have the level of trans participation we do precisely because these guys went out of their way reach out to us to help make it happen.
In addition, while I did not always agree with every decision made (does anyone?), I was always treated with respect and as an equal as an editor, and that has always been the case during my time with the site. That’s the Bil Browning I know, the man I’ve worked with closely and am proud to call my friend.
How much do you know about Bil, Kathy? Have you ever spoken to him, worked with him, talked to him, or are you simply assuming for yourself what you think his motivations are? Would you accept such assumptions being made about your own motivations by someone who doesn’t even know you?
What he did was wrong, an awful mistake with terrible results. That doesn’t mean he’s a bad person, it means he fucked up. Can you not at least allow for the fact that maybe he’s learned his lesson? That maybe, just maybe, Bil doesn’t know everything there is to know about transfolks, but is learning from this now?
For all that Bil has done, for all the Bilerico Project has been for everyone who reads, contributes and participates in it, can’t you at least offer him the benefit of the doubt this once?
I think he deserves at least that much from our community, don’t you?
I never said give him a pass…I said Bil was wrong and he deserved to be called out for it. I did so myself, repeatedly, along with many others. What he does not deserve is to be personally attacked and accused of motivations that are completely unfair and unsupported by the facts, which is what I see people doing here and elsewhere.
It’s not right, it’s not fair, and it’s frankly unworthy of people who should know better than to judge without knowing all the facts, or even the person they’re judging.
It would be nice if now and then people remembered the Golden Rule and applied it in situations like this one.
we have facts..We have the facts of what has happened; we aren’t his good friend so owe him nothing. His actions are what are judged here and the motives are suspect. Since I have not slandered him I don’t see how I violated the golden rule I stated the facts. He was complicit, he was an accessory. He can pay the consequence and maybe in time he can make amends somehow; but expecting everyone to shrug it off is unrealistic and asking too much. So no to that. It would have been nice if the Golden Rule was applied to us in the first place wouldn’t it?
You must be jokingYou’re seriously saying that this individual is so stupid, so Red State pig ignorant that he can’t recognize that words like “mutilate” and calling us deluded and calling for us to be denied medical treatment are deeply offensive on their face?
If he is seriously that ignorant that he can’t recognize hate speech when he sees it then he should do the right thing and resign until he’s educated himself about very basic issues in the GLBT community.
Seriously, if a trans editor greenlighted an editorial “the anus is an exit not an entry” do you think they would deserve to hide behind a claim of ignorance?
Instead he didn’t even apologize. He just defended it, instigated a coverup, hid, and now transpeople and our allies are being attacked for rightful criticism.
Are you even paying attention?
Sorry, accidental post above.Um, Bil has apologized, publicly, and if you’d bothered to take the time to go to the site and check you’d already know that.
Further proof that you don’t know what or who you’re talking about.
I have read the siteI’ve read fauxpology 1 the “really we just can’t see why this is hateful and not just controversial! We like controversy! And there are some good parts too! But I guess oops my bad.”
I’ve also read fauxpology 2 “Um we’re taking it down and blaming Gold and I’m hiding for the weekend and we’re hoping you all forget, but we’re still not really taking any responsibility.”
I’ve even read the “we’re going to appoint a token and do business as usual” post as well.
Which of the posts are you referring to?
Once again you claim to know what’s in Bil’s heart…How do you know his apology isn’t genuine? How do you know anything about him? How can you judge someone you know solely through his public postings, which you assume out of hand are disingenuous.
At least if something like this came from someone like Pam, which I note it hasn’t, it might have some credibility. Pam knows Bil personally and has worked with him. You, on the other hand, know nothing about Bil other than what he has written.
Your argument isn’t credible, and frankly, neither are you.
that’s not an advertisementPHB has never paid for an advertisement on TBP. That logo is running there with ad networks that don’t pay to be there. I’m surprised Bil hasn’t removed it.
ThanksThank you, I’m glad to hear you’re not intentionally supporting the site. I really appreciate the blend speaking out against the article and for providing truely transfriendly space.
thanksfor saying that!
A Mistake?I know this whole fiasco has probably already died down, but unfortunately I have been thinking about it for the last week and I have to speak my mind.
I find it completely incomprehensible that anyone with even a cursory understanding of trans experience (and most who are completely ignorant) would not immediately recognize the dehumanizing, loaded, and intensely offensive characterizations of trans people expressed in Gold’s post.
That Bilerico, a website purportedly aimed at GLBT issues would post a piece that used terms like “delusional” and “mutilated” in characterizing transpeople is beyond the pale. It is simply incomprehensible.
What is even more incomprehensible is that trans people like yourself are defending the man who decided to post this hateful and completely ignorant rant. Educate him? You’ve got to be kidding. Bilerico is a GLBT website, and if he is this ignorant of trans issues after five years, he has no business whatsoever being in that position.
I don’t know Bil. I don’t care what his motivations were. What I care about is the act, not the intent. And the act provided a forum to espress a – perhaps? – widely held, but reprehensible and uninformed, view. I honestly don’t think the weak apologies addressed anything, other than further inflame the anger.
And then, to add insult to injury, the original post was pulled, removing the context for all the (justifiably) angry posts that followed.
Sad, just sad.
You know, in 1962, Thomas Kuhn wrote a book (The Structure of Scientific Revolutions) that examined how scientific revolutions take place. In reality, what he was examining was how social revolutions take place, since scientists also exist in a community and are subject to the same human limitations as everyone else. What he found was that in many, if not most cases, change in a paradigm or belief system often requires that those who held outmoded (and demonstrably false) beliefs simply had to die off before the revised understanding of the world could take hold.
Ronald Gold is one of those old bastards who simply will never “get it”. He can’t. It’s beyond his capacity. At 70, he has his views, and it is exceedingly unlikely these will change. But for sure – the man will die eventually, and when his generation is gone, there won’t be quite so many transphobic gays, and those who are transphobic might be a little bit more afraid to express their slurs and ignorance publicly. They might still be transphobic, but they will have the expectation that to express those views will come at a high cost.
I think the littany of posts here and at Bilerico in response to Gold’s post is a harbinger of things to come. If anyone thinks transpeople are just going to sit around and watch as all sorts of mischaracterizations and projections are foisted on transpeople, they are seriously mistaken.