When I see people bashing all Christians, I will refer them to this letterIt is very well written. Why can’t Americans be more like this?

There is a growing movement of American evangelicals in this veinHere is a great example.

More and morepeople of faith are coming forward in support…

In that vein, this poll leaves mewith more questions than answers…
this link has a new poll for NJ residents on marriage equality.
Marriage equality polls favorably with Catholics and non-evangelical Protestants.
Marriage equality is a big loser with evangelicals.
My question (I guess) is who is this particular poll counting as an “evangelical? And does “evangelical” mean the same thing in America as it does in Ireland?
http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel…
But yes, this is great news from Ireland.

Wow!

Evangelical Christians have no automatic right to have their views preferred to thsoe of others.  Nor do we have a duty to try to impose Biblical morality on public life by force of law.  We are in a new social situation in which the religious identity markers are losing their meaning in non-religious society.  But why should we be afraid?  If we are called to live as a minority in a society that no longer pays Christianity any particular respect then so be it.  The early church lived in such a society and flourished.  Christian churches live in such societies today and thrive.

But the American churches so want their privilege that they’ve lost all common and civic sense.
Bravo for Ireland evangelicals.

what does “evangelical” it mean?not to be trite, but it means whatever someone claiming the terms wants it to mean.  according to that pollster, people self-identified (‘those who call themselves “born-again” or “Evangelical” Christians’), so it means whatever those individuals want it to mean.  just like being “anglican” has a different general meaning here in the usa than it apparently does in uganda and nigeria and rowan williams’s brain, “evangelical” is bound to have different flavors in different places.  if you click on that ekklasia link a tthe top, there is an interesting contrast made in that article between irish evangelicals and english evangelicals.  the english variety sound a lot more like the harry jackson variety than not.  i’m sure evangelicals all share certain core beliefs, but clearly they are very diverse in how or whether they feel those beliefs should be imposed on others.

Yeah, “evangelicals” are clearly diverseIt’s the Socrates in me that asks the question, I suppose
I guess I’m the type of person who’s for more specifics when using terminology, not less. I know that not all Christians think the same about GLBT equality, that all white gays aren’t racist, that all black folk aren’t homophobic, that not every gay person is atheist, etc. I’m always for more diversity and…dare I say, complexity. (I think we share that, Lurleen)  

Wait WHAT??

Evangelical Christians have no automatic right to have their views preferred to thsoe of others.  Nor do we have a duty to try to impose Biblical morality on public life by force of law.

We lets see American ‘evangelicals’ as typified by the FAMILY want to impose gay-execution as a law in another country?  You did see Rachel M last night right? If not watch every minute of the UGANDA/FAMILY segment .. and I would turn down next years invitation to the ‘National Prayer Breakfast’… unless you want to hear what their next big hate ‘project’ will be.
a very far cry from these ‘sensible’ Irish evangelicals.

Thanks for this, Lurleen….
It is an AMAZING contrast with what we think of as evangelicals in the US, though I doubt it’s as extreme as the difference between “liberal” in the US and “liberal” in Germany where it has many parallels with “consevative” in the US.
Having been reared in a US evangelical “Holy Roller” denomination that believed in faith healing, speaking in tongues, and a literal God, Devil, and Heaven & Hell, I am astounded.
Compare their remarkable statement above with the position of the US National Association of Evangelicals [which, yes, Ted Haggard once headed, and helped elect gay murderer by criminal neglect Ronald Reagan and the Bushies]:
While homosexuals as individuals are entitled to civil rights, including equal protection of the law, the NAE opposes legislation which would extend special consideration to such individuals based on their “sexual orientation.” Such legislation inevitably is perceived as legitimatising the practice of homosexuality and elevates that practice to a level of an accepted moral standard.
There is also this contrast from the Irish group’s “Principals” as listed on their Website:

We affirm the need to contend for truth while being willing to learn from each other.  When discussing or writing about issues of faith or practice that divide, we will consider the frequency of our own failings, and acknowledge the possibility that we ourselves may be mistaken.  We will speak the truth in love, avoiding personal hostility.

That’s the starting point from which they differ most with typical American evangelicals who have in common the belief that each of their denominations is the One True Religion over the other, that they are never wrong and have an obligation to condemn those who differ…Baptists dismissing Nazarenes ad infinitum…all dismissing Catholics ["they worship Mary"] and Jews ["they killed Christ"].  They so typically actually distrust and despise each other that LGBTs, particularly, were spared their worst potential for centuries until, unfortunately, they discovered the benefits of allying with the other denominations to try to destroy their common enemies: women who wish to control their own bodies and LGBTs. I assure you that after going home from jointly picketing a women’s clinic or legislative body considering gay rights they still think the different denomination person standing beside them then is going to Hell.
Time to remind ourselves of the wisdom of Mark Twain:

So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: “Ye shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor’s religion is.” Not merely tolerant of it, but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code.
Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion–several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven….The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.

EvangelicalsEvangelical originally meant a Christian who went out and “preached the Gospel to all the world.” Hence, the church I grew up in was The Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church in Saddle River, NJ. The church became a member of the Lutheran Church of America at that time which is now the United Lutheran Church of America. The ULCA is a gay affirming church as has been pointed out here.
When I went to my granddaughter’s Baptism at her parent’s Lutheran Church near Atlanta, I just had to smile when I found out that the pastor was female. All the effort’s to gain equal rights and opportunities for women in the 1960′s and 1970′s seemed more than worthwhile. My new granddaughter could grow up to be anything she wished, even a pastor.
Fundamentalism grew in the last century in a desire to return to Christian fundamentals and what could be more fundamental than the Bible itself? Don’t pay so much attention to Luther, Calvin or Wesley. Go directly to the Bible for direction. Most now take the Bible literally, as God’s word, and therefore infallible, as they interpret it, of course.
One can take the Bible literally yet not be a fundamentalist like the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod does, just as one can be an evangelical without being a fundamentalist as my ULCA in NJ does. These Irish evangelicals are most likely the latter.
US fundamentalists prefer being called evangelicals since the term “fundy” has gotten a bad rap. Pollsters refer to them that way yet are sure to make the definition clear: literal Bible, born again, etc. to make it clear that the poll is really separating out fundamentalists from the other Protestants. Strange world, isn’t it?

That’s all very niceBut I remain cynical of any religious institution that more history (and “holy” scripture to back it up) of persecution and punishment and hatred than the opposite.
It’s great when groups like the EAI speak out against religious-based prejudice but this whole, “no, WE are the REAL Christians” from pretty much every Christian group makes me roll my eyes because each group ranging from “we hate everybody” to the “we love everybody” can find Scripture to back up their feelings.
When people object to legislation based on human rights and a respect for humanity, well, in my book that’s much more genuine.  

Austria PASSED Civil UnionsVIENNA – Austria’s parliament passed legislation Thursday allowing same-sex couples to enter into civil unions, a move hailed by proponents as a historic win for gay rights in the country.
The bill, slated to become law Jan. 1, will give same-sex couples many of the rights enjoyed by their heterosexual counterparts, including access to a pension if one partner dies and alimony in the event of a split.
“We are living in the 21st century and I’m very glad this step is being taken today,” Justice Minister Claudia Bandion-Ortner said during parliamentary debate leading up to the vote.
Christian Hoegl, co-president of the Homosexual Initiative Vienna, Austria’s oldest group of gays and lesbians, agreed.
“It’s a relief, a big success and a reward for two decades of lobbying,” Hoegl said.
  http://www.deseretnews.com/art…

A little too late for Jorg Haiderbut still nice to see.

Now if they’d just catch up with Berlin….
… which shocked me on a recent visit by having done since my last visit ten years ago with having done something I thought they never would: banned smoking in restaurants and bars. Being Berliners, some places simply ignore the law with apparent impunity but there is no law period yet in supposedly more sophisticated [and unquestionably more beautiful] Vienna.
Many restaurants have both smoking and nonsmoking sections, but not all; the rest willing to lose customers to a competitor right next door to them with two sections.