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Add this to the post-racial society pile! There was a time when racist bullsh*t like this went on in private conversation, but Washington Times editor emeritus Wesley Pruden apparently goes balls to the wall with this bit of miscegenation analysis of the background of the President of the United States. The mind-blowing snippet from Media Matters.
But Mr. Obama, unlike his predecessors, likely knows no better, and many of those around him, true children of the grungy ’60s, are contemptuous of custom. Cutting America down to size is what attracts them to “hope” for “change.” It’s no fault of the president that he has no natural instinct or blood impulse for what the America of “the 57 states” is about. He was sired by a Kenyan father, born to a mother attracted to men of the Third World and reared by grandparents in Hawaii, a paradise far from the American mainstream.
56 Comments
moonie maniathis guy works for the Moonie owned Washington Times, and his boss thinks he’s the second coming of Christ – what do you expect?
Home schooled geography
In public school I learned there were 50 states, (since 1959). So, what are the seven new states being taught by home schooling?
Wow…what utter and vile racismAnd, uh, his mother and grandparents were reared in the Midwest. Can’t get more American mainstream than the Midwest (and I am biased in that regard)
However…Pruden’s analysis is indeed shameful, but what he’s criticizing, Obama’s kowtowing to other heads of state, deserves the criticism. I say this as a supporter and one who voted for him. Obama’s bowing to other heads of state is wrong and deeply shaming. Even Miss Manners has gently pointed this out. It is a breach of protocol and it makes a dreadful statement to the world. The President of the United States does NOT bow to anyone but God.
But is that more a sign of respectfor the house that he may happen to be in at the time? And honoring the customs of other people when he’s on their soil?
He is President of the United States regardless of his actions in that regard. Nothing wrong with showing some respect and humility (which GWB said that he would do in regards to foriegn policy but he never did). If those gestures do help in repairing relationships with the rest of the world, then why not?
Hateful and NOT suprisingOf the garbage I read at that cesspool radio, and the folks who appear on that show, racial mixing was their BIGGEST bugaboo. They spew uglier stuff at inter racial couples than the do any individual minority, and they don’t like gentiles and Jewish marriages either.
Unfortunately these white folks know they can tap some Blacks so against racial mixing, that this issue has broader appeal than just hating Blacks, or just hating Latin@s etc. BTW Wanda Sykes said she and her French wife ONLY catch sh*t from Black women, no other group has a problem with them being inter racial.
It’s a reference to a verbal slip Obama made on the campaign trail…More on snopes (linked at Shakesville): http://www.snopes.com/politics…
Basically, he was probably trying to say that he’d been to “50… [pause].. seven states, barring 1″ and Alaska and Hawaii, because his staff couldn’t justify it.
the clip really sounds like he meant to say something like, I’ve been to 50… no, 47 states, barring 1, (the continental US) and Alaska and Hawaii. But he never corrected himself on the 40 part. Lost of people talk like this when they’re tired and the brain hasn’t slowed down yet – a friend of mine during her thesis writing time famously stumbled into the caf, stood in front of our table, and stated “I need to char” when she really meant to say, “I need to sit down in a chair.” We got her some tea and hid her candles just in case.
And the conspiracy theorists said that oh, he’s referring to the 57 Islamic nations (when there are 60 in a loose federation).
Personally I think he was just hungry for a burger w/ ketchup.
The dragging Hawaii/Hawaiians into this sh*t is a new one on meKeori probably is more familar with that specific bigotry.
Hating counter culture Hippies/Woodstock is almost quaint and nostalgic for this aging freak.
Tell that to Nixon. And Reagan.Nixon bowed to Hirohito, for pity’s sake! The man responsible for bombing Pearl Harbor! At least Obama did not stroll the grounds while holding hands, and latter plant a big wet smooch on the Emperor’s cheek.
Obama’s bow was far too deep: he should have bowed as to an equal, not as a commoner to Heaven’s Chosen. That was the only breach of protocol here.
OMFGI can’t believe what I just read.
And what the hell is hpdann talking about?
What is the “dreadful” statement made? Token gestures mean nothing unless you desire to play into this conservative talking point.
In what way are you shamed? I ask because I’m not shamed, so I’m curious how some gestures from Barack Obama have caused (self-declared) shame to fall upon some, but yet skip others (like myself).
what a bigoted trollLet me guess: Pruden hasn’t packed his kids and grandkids off to Iraq and Afghanistan to be slaughtered, right?!
Let’s hear it from Miss MannersIt’s a question of PROTOCOL and protocol matters. Please read Miss Manners’ column in the Washington Post for June 10th of this year:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…
Please read the entire column but pay particular attention to her final paragraph:
But symbolic subservience to a foreign ruler is worse. When Miss Manners sees American citizens delighting in bowing or curtseying to royalty, she tries to remind herself that they are just being silly, not treasonous. When an American official does it, we can only hope it was because he was noticing that his own shoelace was undone — and not that he recognizes the divine right of kings in general, or the authority over us of that king in particular.
I support our President, but there are rules about these things – for a reason.
Please read Miss MannersShe can explain these reasons “why not” better than I can:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…
Queen Elizabeth and Michelle Obamabroke protocol. Her Majesty The Queen (I love saying that) didn’t mind that at all; in fact, she seemed to enjoy it.
my reply is below.
You might find this interestingAbout the bowing:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/polit…
But do read the Miss Manners column linked in these comments as well.
Why is anyone SHOCKED at anything the Washington Times prints?Like Fox, the Times simply does not have ANY journalistic credibility. I like Pam’s creed of printing “batshit” right loon crap but even after a while, you just shrug your shoulders.
The last I checkedMiss Manners does not run our foreign policy nor the protocols associated with visiting other heads of state.
An American citizen delightingin bowing or curtseying to royalty might be TREASONOUS?
I find the fear that some Americans have towards (titular / figurehead) kings and queens hilarious, when often, those same Americans have no problem with licking the feet of the rich, genuflecting to the rich as superior beings.
Yes. There are certainly rules of protocol. But, read your own article. It is clear that the rules of protocol used today in International Relations are NOT the rules of protocol that Miss Manners would prefer.
Too bad for Miss Manners.
This is better…I didn’t like what Miss Manners said (that was dripping of American superiority) but I do know that the whole bowing thing is very ritualized, precise, and easy to mess up . Especially for foriegners.
And especially for a goofy, geeky guy like President Obama (I think this is one of his most endearing qualities, no shade there!)
The funny thing is thatthey aren’t even in anything close to a loose federation. Calling the OIC a federation, is like calling the UN a federation.
Heck, the countries of the (British) Commonwealth (of Nations), ie the former British colonies, are more of a federation than the OIC, due to very similar legal systems (common law) for one reason. In fact, in some cases, the highest court of appeal for some of the Commonwealth countries is still in the UK.
Yeah,all the bows that I’ve seen Obama do, do look kinda messed up.
I also agree that it is endearing, and certainly the Emperor Akhihito seems to have taken it that way.
The fuckIt’s Japan. You bow. Period.
That’s the custom, it’s a sign of respect, a simple procedural tool that a crafty statesperson uses to engender trust and ease upon the person they are meeting. This puts the visited person on a more congenial first foot which aids all further negotiations.
And furthermore, it’s motherfucking Japan. Everything is a bow. Bow is the universal greeting, hell the modifier on near every action on the planet outside rude gestures. When in Japan, you are bowing or you are an asshole, period. I don’t give a shit what some American book says, it’s what you fucking do.
My god, this has to be the most inane right-wing freakout on the planet. And bullshit that you voted for Obama if you are shamed that he treats foreign heads of state with enough human dignity to respect their preferred greatings. It’s like head of state 101 and no one outside of people who think Obama has the wrong skin color to do anything right thinks this is a hill to die on.
Inane, puerile, racist bullshit.
… especially now?Surf on over to Talkingpointsmemo and see the meltdown at the Washington Times continue. Bring popcorn. Fox may be without credibility, but the level of incredibility is higher at the Times even if you factor in the Rev. Sunny Moon.
You have to admit that the mass weddings really did make marriage look bad.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpoin…
YeahInternational protocol tends to go with a sign of respect that acknowledges the culture? Why? Because superficial first impressions go a long way in easing the emotional state of any negotiations. If you want them to resist you simply because they do not like you, make a big play of rejecting their culture for some bizarre point about royalty that no one cares about. If you want them to like you enough to give you islands and agree to trading agreements and be willing to wait while you get the fuck out of Iraq, then you show enough respect in five seconds of bullshit that they start the meeting thinking, “hey, he doesn’t suck.”
Regardless of anything, it’s good politics.
Unless, apparently, you are the right wing in which the only appropriate response is to roundhouse kick someone in the face, fart on them and throw up dual middle fingers and yell, “America, fuck yeah, we own your ass!”
Yeah, I was thinking of saying something like this in responseto the the Miss Manners link.
It’s Japan. EVERYONE bows. Not bowing over some ridiculous hangup about “equality” would be similar to someone refusing to shake someone’s hand in the US.
The Miss Manners view of protocol in International Relations appears to be:
if Americans don’t do something in America, bow, or gently kiss someone on both cheeks (OMG a guy kissed another guy, TEH GAY, TEH HORROR !!11!!), then if an American does it when a guest in someone else’s country / home, it is a “breach of protocol”
I have said for a long time……that I wouldn’t wipe my a$$ with that “newspaper”.
Dear me, we have a new troll.Just created account today + no posted email address = TROLL. Or are you really SciFi Geek or -ish? Whoever you are, if you seriously believe that Miss Manners is the authority on international diplomacy, you’re boxing way above your weight here.
Yeah, the ABC analysis is the best I’ve seen on the subject…Let us also not forget that a screwed-up bow is nothing compared to vomiting at a state banquet.
Yet, at the same time, Obama has made a number of blunders on the international front in the last two weeks:
* Skipping Berlin, with nothing important enough on his schedule to justify it. The British and German papers spent the entire week ripping him apart and pointing out that he was willing to make a campaign appearance there and has already cleared his schedule to accept his own Nobel Prize. The friendly foreign press now paints him as someone ashamed of America and only interested in glorifying himself.
* Emerging from the meetings in China thus far with very little to show for it, in spite of dodging the Dalai Lama until afterward to gain favor.
* The “town hall” all but scripted by the Chinese government, which was still not carried outside Beijing.
* Attending the conference with Myanmar without any concessions, including the release of the nation’s opposition leader.
And the sad thing is that I’m sure there are more I’m forgetting.
@hpdannBesides being totally off topic, you seem to have a real bug up your tush about a repig talking point, about showing respect to a sovergn Nation’s leader.
Daily Show had a funny bit about bush smooching on the Saudi King and holding his hand.
I’d put Obama bowing next to Bush slobbering on the Saudi with the caption….NO HOMO.
Bowing to the Japanese emporer shows respect not to the king, but to his subjects who CHOSE to be ruled in a monarchy, as do many other Nations. ANY Nation could overthrow a monarch when they choose, it’s been done thousands of times through History.
WTFThat was uncalled for, Qscribe. What’s your problem? Why would you think that post was me?
Please read my blog and you tell me if anything I have ever written even slightly resembles that post.
I think repeatedly posting “ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ” to other people’s comments is what you call trollish behavior. Me, I have a point of view and have defended it. I would never post false or misleading comments. I don’t really know much about Sci-Fi Geek but you may disagree with his comments without accusing him falsely either.
I’m proud of who I am, my point of view, and what I stand for. My blog:
http://thecahokian.blogspot.com/
Good gracious NO!!!Our president? Respecting the customs of the countries he’s visiting?!? SOCIALISM!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(runs away flailing arms in the air)
I’m not sure it’s appropriateto gravely breach the protocol of the nation where one finds oneself at the moment in order to protect the protocol of one’s home state. Why would basic courtesy as defined by the society you’re visiting be “shameful”?
YESExactly the example I thought of as well, kev. Elizabeth appeared a tad surprised, then relaxed and charmed…
MANNERS CZAR!!!OMFG, WE’VE GOT A DAMNED “MANNERS CZAR”!!!
Someone alert Glen Beck.
Sorry if I offendQScribe, I did not realize that I needed to fill out my public email address, but I have done so now. I am neither SciFi Geek nor -ish.
There is a Chief of Protocol of the US who ought to be advising the highest ranking officials on matters such as this. Obama is not the first POTUS to violate protocol by any means, and I am perfectly sure he means nothing malign by doing so. But I hate to see him playing into the hands of his critics, who will interpret these gestures in ways he does not intend. There are recognized rules of behavior, based originally on court etiquette, which America modified in democratic ways. Miss Manners is merely repeating these.
Someone in this thread accused me of being off-topic, but I was merely pointing out that, while Wes Pruden’s post is vile and racist without question, I too think Obama’s failure to follow protocol is a mistake. That’s just my opinion. If the rest of you are happy with it, and don’t mind the current outcry from the loonier fringe of the right, all well and good. I’d still rather the POTUS not bow to other heads of state. However, I’m willing to accept, perhaps, that there may be a cultural element mitigating the rules in the case of Japan.
I remain a supporter, though like many of you, I’m getting impatient to see his “fierce advocacy.”
Please see my response aboveThe one labeled “Sorry if I offend.” I’m not off-topic at all. Pam quoted the vile parts of Pruden’s article without saying what he was commenting about. He was commenting on Obama’s bowing to the Saudi king and the Japanese emperor. I didn’t like it either, but I’m willing to admit, in the face of argument, that I could be wrong, at least in the case of Japan. Anyway, read the earlier post and accept my apology. Thanks. (Oh, and what is a “repig talking point?” Is that a mistype or just something I haven’t heard? There are so many acronyms and net words I don’t know.)
BullshitI’m sorry, there’s no way you were ever a supporter of Obama if you’re falling for such weak-kneed bullshit as the right-wing “a president never bows” crap, especially when most every modern president has bowed to someone as a manner of protocol.
And frankly, I’m sorry, I might just be a west-coast Nipponaphile, but dear Bob in Himmel, I’m shocked, literally shocked that anyone, even the deluded wingnuts of wingnutopia could be so literally brain-dead and self-centered to not know after nearly 30 years of imported culture from Japan the simplest and most obvious cultural aspect of Japan’s culture, which is that everyone bows. It’s what you do. It’s their handshake, their kiss on the cheek, their hug, their roundhouse kick, middle fingers, and “america fuck yeah” for the Teabaggers of Real America TM.
So how did you miss out on that to the point where you even followed this garbage or continue to hammer home the inane idea that a president should make much needed friends after Bush’s reign of cowboy petulance by failing to adhere to basic international protocol or that such protocol and acts of respect and kindness may not hewn to the narrow inane drivel of a nativist rich moron like the person who calls themselves Miss Manners for the Washington Post (who is obviously an idiot for having no clue about decorum for countries outside her own)?
Do you live in one of those states that have no asian people in it or something?
That’s an easy one, PeteyHawaiians have brown skin. Duh.
And just to add my fast-track-to-foreign-area-officer-specializing-in-Far-East-countries-and-have-I-mentioned-I-live-in-Hawaii-which-has-a-heavy-Japanese-influence take to this whole bow thing:
It’s Japan. Japan is a highly hierarchical society, with very ritualized customs establishing status between people. Hey, hpdann, did you know that both the Japanese and Korean language have specific honorific terms for those who are elder, or in a respected social status? (Somehow, I doubt either you or that moron Wes Pruden knew that.) Korean even has very specific verb conjugations conferring honored status upon the person being addressed. Spoken Chinese, when spoken to a person of high or higher social status, is spoken in a more classical, stylized manner to confer a sense of honor upon that person. Asia is not America. There will be no meeting in the backyard over beers. Thanks be, President Obama is no George H.W. Bush with his cowboy belt buckle swaggering in and insulting everyone with his cheap disrespect. He knows and understands these little things called “other culture’s customs and courtesies,” and visibly acknowledges them.
It’s Japan. You bow in greeting. It’s Japan, a long-time ally, and a diplomatic meeting. You bow deeper. It’s the Emperor, a recognized head of state. You bow deeper. It’s the first time meeting said head of state. You bow deeper. Emperor Hirohito is an elderly man, which in Japanese culture is a trait to be shown respect bordering on veneration. You bow to the fucking waist. Got it?
In conclusion, conservative ignoramuses such as hpdann and Wes Pruden give Americans a bad name when we actually travel outside our own borders. It makes it that much harder for those of us who study and learn the elements of other cultures to be taken at all seriously in those countries, because the negative stereotype of the “stupid American” keeps being reinforced by these tragically stupid stuffed shirts.
And for anyone STILL crying big crocodile tears over a bow, take comfort in the fact that bowing to Emperor Hirohito engenders more goodwill than vomiting on him at a state dinner.
LuckilyIt seems the numb-minded don’t actually travel much outside their borders because the radical changes of culture freak them out with too much newness, so the people actually going out and meeting people of other countries are those that aren’t dicks and those who are respectful or at least try to respect the culture of where they visit, so most other countries end up with more or less a positive impression of Americans the people even if they sometimes despair in bafflement when they see our politics or dip into a fouler mood when talking about tourists to “tourist hotspot” cities.
So that’s definitely a good thing and is why one doesn’t actually need to “pretend to be Canadian” as the old Bush-era joke went.
Judging by your passionate responseI’d say manners and civility are not your strong suit. I regret the decline of manners in my long lifetime. I think they matter, and I think they’re the bedrock of civilization.
I have lived in three of the five largest US metropolitan areas and worked with plenty of Asians – Indians, Chinese, Pakistani, Vietnamese – but I don’t think I ever worked with any Japanese directly. However, there was never any bowing involved. Thinking about this, I realize that this was because they were in the United States, and had I been in their countries, different manners might apply.
So, I hereby retract my disappointment with Obama bowing, lest I be tarred with the dread teabagger brush. (If you knew me, you’d know how far away I am from that point of view). So have it your way, and good night to you.
Mea Maxima Culpa!
I agree – OPEC is more like a loose federationNot that all OPEC nations are Islamic of course.
I’m just repeating what was on Shakesville and snopes.
“However, there was never any bowing involved.”Of course there wasn’t. You don’t specify if the people you worked with were immigrants, or first generation, or if their families were here longer than that, but either way, culturally Pakistan, India, Vietnam, and China are extremely different from each other and from Japan and also are diverse within their own respective borders. With the history of cross-cultural influence (during wartime and peacetime), Mandarin Chinese and Korean cultures have influenced and been influenced by Japan, but they’re still different.
OIC = Organisation of the Islamic Conference
The ONLY sites I see making a stink about the bow in Japan are Reich WingMalkin, Townhall, Hot Air, Laura Ingram, etc.
It’s no typo my calling republicans repigs.
saying you’re sorry is cool, I’ll start fresh with you.
Well now I do feel stupidI didn’t connect ‘repig’ with ‘republican’ at all! Yet it’s obvious (and funny!) I just sat there wondering what a repig talking point might be. Senility has arrived. Call me shamefaced.
I’ve spent a lot of time in France,a country that the US was supposedly in a spat with during the Bush regime. My time was largely spent in the company of French citizens, ranging in age from teens to those who remember World War II. I lost count of how many people told me that I’m not like what they heard about Americans or expected an American to be. They were always nervous asking what I thought of George Bush, and when they found out how I felt, told me that all of the Americans they met did not like Bush so they wanted to know who voted for him! I had to explain, “People who don’t travel outside the US.” It may help that the bulk of my time was spent in cities other than Paris (though I certainly appreciate the opportunities I’ve had to visit Paris also).
Well-polished mirror?
You’ve insisted that the President must display an utter contempt for manners and civility when traveling abroad or be in violation of protocol. Not sure how “civil” that is supposed to be.
OMG I see stupid is as stupid continues to do.Bowing is a cultural issue. In Europe it is done to express fielty or respect to superiors. In Japan it is done to express greetings like we shake hands. It would be stupid and pompos fro a president to go to Japan and not bow, just like it would be insulting and misdirected to go to Europe and do the exact opposite. Leave it to the right wingers to be just this side of ignorant and honest to again attempt to misdirect the masses. I would think people would get used to this by now.
However, as to this drama about the post. The issue for me is not them talking about the bowing but again raises the spector of bigotry and prejudice based on his ethnicity, lineage and where he grew up. Wrap it all up in a pretty bow and people start trying to disect abd discuss the issue while patently ignoring this creatin who basically just went antebellum on my beloved President and is certainly more deserving of an ass whoppin’ then a discussion of his so called issuess–the condescending f*ck.
Oh I thought maybe there were 50 states and 7 territoriesNot that I have enough money to visit any of them. I miss going to the US Virgin Islands.
For someone who infuriated the right for never making a mistake in a speech, they were looking at every “and”, “but” and “or” to show flaws. Maybe Clinton was right; it does matter to the right what the meaning of “is” – is!
CorrectionI realized this morning it was Emperor Akihito, not Emperor Hirohito.
Note to self: do not write while angry, in a rush, and multitasking. Take time to proofread.
I had similar experiences in EnglandOn the way from Gatwick to Naples this past summer I was seated next to a British woman, and all she wanted to do was talk about Bush vs. Obama. Europe paid a LOT of attention to the 2008 campaign, and the non-BNP Brits were horrified by the McCain/Palin campaign’s kowtowing to racists, bigots, rednecks, and the lowest common denominator.
Conservatives do us no favors when they open their mouths.
Oh please.Why should anyone bow to a god that is so petty, hateful, and infantile as to have to resort to threats, intimidation, and genocide in order to gain and keep worshippers?
I certainly will not.
I know that – I wasn’t confusing OIC with OPEC…I was just saying the OPEC is more like a federation, as opposed to OIC.
depends on how you count them…According to Wiki (yeah, yeah, take that for what it’s worth):
US Unincorporated organized territories:
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands (commonwealth)
Puerto Rico (commonwealth)
United States Virgin Islands
US Unincorporated unorganized territories
Islands in South Pacific:
American Samoa, self-governing under a constitution last revised in 1967
Wake Island, inhabited by US military and civilian contractors only
Midway Islands, inhabited by caretakers
Johnston Atoll, uninhabited
Baker Island, uninhabited
Howland Island, uninhabited
Jarvis Island, uninhabited
Kingman Reef, uninhabited
So you may have 7 inhabited islands (dep. on how you count the US V.I.), or 5 full time ones and 2 part time ones.
like Cheney did?Rachel Maddow tackled this one last night. After showing Obama, Nixon, and Eisenhower bowing, she showed Cheney standing ramrod-straight, making sure he wasn’t showing any respect to no Japanese emperor.