UPDATE: see more commentary at the end of the piece.
Those are his words, not mine. Joe Solmonese said them to CNN’s Don Lemon in an interview on Sunday that hasn’t received much play, and there are some interesting nuggets that reveal more about thinking inside the org than he probably meant to share.
It’s rare to see the whole diversity/class/power dynamic that vexes the LGBT movement opened up since it’s a third rail topic that tends to give some with privilege a case of defensive agita. It’s likely this unintentional level of candor won’t be seen again any time soon.
LEMON: Joe, I got to ask you this. We had a panel last night, Dan Savage, Michelangelo Signorile, Dan Choi, Hilary Rosen on. And some of the folks who are on that panel said that the HRC doesn’t represent the masses of gay people in the country, that it is, you know, one certain group.
Do you think that the group — how do I put this — that there is a lack of diversity within the HRC, and if it were more diverse, that that might help the cause?
SOLMONESE: Well, I think that — you know, I know that — I think it was Michelangelo who was making some sweeping comments about the number of people in the room and who was in the room, although he did start by saying he couldn’t get into the room. So, you know, I sort of take that with a grain of salt. But we’re the largest LBGT organization in the country with nearly a million members. Most of them are small donors and supporters all over the country. And so, I think we absolutely represent the LBGT community.
But I think that — as Hilary mentioned last night on the show — perhaps the crowd at the dinner last night was a little bit more politically aware and had a better sense of maybe, you know, what’s at stake and what needs to be done. Because at the end of the day, what all these fights come down to — and this is where we are in this movement…
A couple of things are quite notable. Lemon asks about the diversity issue within HRC. Solmonese can’t answer that question without either fibbing or going down a really uncomfortable path, so Joe chooses to answer the question in terms of paid membership, so he can reference the multitude of small dollar donors. Those donors weren’t at the dinner, nor are they in leadership positions or on the board of the advocacy org.
The real boo-boo, however, is the claim that the crowd attending the annual dinner is more politically engaged, more boned-up on the issues, and even more incredibly, know more than you folks out there — living in places where you have no rights whatsoever — about what is at stake. Well, those who opened their wallets to see the fabulous Lady Gaga and the cast of Glee (after all, the dinner sold out before the President’s appearance was billed), surely are in touch with the issues more than you are. Joe said so.
But seriously, there obviously were committed activists in that room, people who deeply care about those without the access and power to effect change in the same way they can. It’s too bad that they get scooped up in the criticism of HRC’s poor handling of the diversity issue. By raising the value of the attendees as “the players” who know better, he’s essentially confirming all of the worst stereotypes. Those skeptics outside of the LGBT sphere who saw that non-diverse audience that night are even less likely to support LGBT issues (more on that below).
Adele Stan, in a piece worth the click, “LGBT Activists Criticize Obama’s Speech for What Wasn’t There, But Miss a Very Big Thing That Was“, she points out that the real landmark comment the President made that went unnoticed – he made the connection between the black civil rights movement and LGBT rights.
[E]ven more importantly, completely overlooked by activists as they battle for marriage rights was a critical turning point: In anticipation of the criticism he clearly expected to receive, Obama compared the movement for LGBT rights to the civil rights movement of the 1960s:
Now, I’ve said this before, I’ll repeat it again — it’s not for me to tell you to be patient, any more than it was for others to counsel patience to African Americans petitioning for equal rights half a century ago. (Applause.) But I will say this: We have made progress and we will make more.
This is not a statement without some risk for Obama. It’s a comparison often met with resentment in the African-American community — a comparison few have the moral authority to make. The nation’s first African-American president is one of them.
On one level, that’s correct – that needed to be said. On another level, it’s not enough. If you want to see how much impact that statement really had in the aftermath of that speech, surf over to a blog I respect a great deal, Jack & Jill Politics (“A black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics“), where there is a plethora of politically informed, educated black netizens who are tapped into the progressive blogosphere. The President’s comparison went in one ear and out of the other for way too many of the commenters.
It’s fair to say that The President needs to repeat that link in equality movements in front of other, non-LGBT audiences over and over to make it stick. In those comments at J&JP you’ll see:
* Criticism of the complexion of leadership of too many of our orgs with this dinner a nationwide televised display of the gap in race and class alienating commenters in the thread, feeding the stereotypes quite nicely;
* black gays called house negroes/having house negro syndrome;
— it matters not if you have a long record of challenging the lack of diversity in LGBT leadership and political inclusion and representing the community on-air; you’ve revoked your black card.* the claim that gays have all the rights that they need and deserve, because they see the snowstorm at the public events, and it follows that all gays are white and have money and don’t show up for social justice issues affecting POC. And that means homos need to “get to the back of the line” for rights.
I feel sorry for the poor gay brother in the comments there who can’t get a break.
As I told a much more diverse audience at NC Pride:
For blacks and other minorities who have to learn how to integrate in the dominant culture out of necessity, they are often feel frustrated and defensive hearing the lack of knowledge exposed when whites make the tentative steps to engage. The honest truth is that, outside of working alongside people of color, there's a lot of social self-segregation going on (on both sides).
What this lack of cross-community dialogue means for out LGBTs of color is that one has to be willing to put yourself out there to be attacked, over and over for addressing homophobia in communities of color knowing that few, if any, white LGBTs are going to come forward to have your back.
I see it time and again, with the excuses ranging from "I'll be called a racist" or "it doesn't feel safe to do this" or "it isn't my place to do it. " Well if you're waiting for it to be safe, it isn't going to happen.
So it is in this environment that black LGBTs have a difficult choice about whether to come out, though more and more are. Fearful of losing social connections, friendships and emotional shelter provided by their faith community if they come out, black gays and lesbians in the church are intimidated.
They fear the judgment of those in the pews and the pastors spewing anti-gay bile from the pulpit. Some of these minority LGBTs simply cannot envision stepping out of the closet because they don't see a welcoming largely white LGBT community on the other side of the door.
And the reaction in that thread tells you how bad this problem is.
So it’s in that context that Solmonese’s comments are a tragic, confirmed truth that just slipped out in the interview. Our movement needs to address how our largest LGBT organization can represent the reality of LGBT America, because its representative just let everyone know that in HRC’s reality, the right mix – the most effective mix – of people in the LGBT equality movement attended that annual dinner. I’m not sure how the rest of us rate other than as a small dollar GAyTM. Maybe Joe will tell us the next time he’s on the air.
UPDATE: I know you all are venting your anger in the comments, but you’re missing the point. This isn’t about destroying HRC; in order to have the level of influence it has on the Hill, and given where the distribution of wealth exists in this country, you’re going to get a demographic like that at the dinner. The main problem here is not that there’s something inherently wrong with being wealthy, the problem is that those with wealth, like those in many demos, tend to naturally self-segregate. It’s the whole class issue. It’s not first nature to ask themselves — “is it important to make a place for those we normally do not socialize with, activists not of wealth who are integral to the LGBT rights struggle to our events?” When it’s raised in an assertive posture as many of you have expressed, there is often a backlash defensiveness akin to (“those ingrates, they don’t know what we’ve done for them”); so serious discussions about how human nature and class/diversity issuse are true problems to solve turn into flamethrowing.
There are truths on both sides. If you don’t like how things are managed in your name, get into the game and not just be a keyboard activist. I have. Despite little free time with a full-time job and this blog, I do work locally, I give what I can to causes, I visit schools to talk to LGBT youth — that’s just as important as anything I write here. I may not have the money to drop for a dinner ticket, but I give to my local equality organization, participate in workshops and panels, and try to make a difference that way too. You choose where your dollars go.
HRC funds many programs that do outreach in the broader, more diverse community with those donations; so complaints that it all goes to administrative overhead and salaries, while it may feel good to rip, doesn’t exactly paint an accurate picture of the impressive work HRC is and is capable of doing. If you started another organization by scratch, it’s likely you’d end up with something that looks much like HRC. What could be different is the outlook of the people running the place — are there ways to be inclusive of fresh ideas and perspectives that doesn’t require a large sum of money to earn a place where the decisions are made? If not, why not? It’s apparent that Joe Solmonese’s unfortunate comments broadcast to the world revealed how he sees the world of LGBT leadership, influence and visibility. In the wake of the comments it would be good to hear whether the organization plans to respond to the viewpoint of its face of the movement expressed in that interview.




142 Comments


Yeah, the HRC just lost meSame with Solmonese. He’s cute, but good grief, this screams of ignorance on his part. Perhaps vague allusions to elitism, but I’m not one that reads about galas and black ties events on a regular basis to know.
Solomnese is full of sheyat“…perhaps the crowd at the dinner last night was a little bit more politically aware and had a better sense of maybe, you know, what’s at stake and what needs to be done.”
Just because you don’t have the required $1,000 to sit at the HRC table with the champagne queers, or you may have it to spend and choose not support a perfectly useless group of hoity-toity gays, clamoring for a glimpse of President Obama in the flesh, is in no way a measurement of your political awareness.
This Joe Solomnese cat needs to resign. Until there is new leadership at the HRC, my ATM is closed to them.
How many?
Really?
Wasn’t an even smaller number of ‘members’ debunked? http://www.washblade.com/2005/…
This man is so incapable of telling the truth he needs to become a TV evangelist.
Oh wait…
Isn’t that, in reality, what he is?
What a weaselly commentHe’s saying “perhaps” and “a little bit more” but he means the exact opposite. He’s convinced that those of us on the outside of his charmed circle of gay self-styled power brokers are uninformed and ignorant. But he cloaked his remarks in hypotheticals. It’s dishonest and creepy.
That being said, if I had $1000 to spare I wouldn’t use it for any kind of banquet, I’d give it directly to an organization I thought was actually doing something to advance equal rights for the GLBT community.
And, BTWWhat is that 20 foot picture of Solomnese doing there?
It reminds me of the pictures I’ve seen of Scientology meetings with leader David Miscavige glaring out at the devout. Too creepy.
They lost me years agoThey endorsed that thug and braggart Giuliani a long time ago for a NYC mayoral. That’s when I stopped donating.
Joe Solomonese’s primary goalis to make sure his job doesn’t go away.
When the GLBT community does have full equality under all matters governed by law, HRC will cease to exist.
It is in HRC’s best interest to stay in existence. The longer they can drag this out, the longer Joe and the gang get their paychecks.
self worshipI was gonna comment on it too. I think it’s wildly inappropriate.
How much did they pull out of their donations to print this monstrosity? Simply shows how out of touch with the real gay movement they really are.
Looks like they’re trying to portray him as our “dear leader.”
Self important buffoonsWhy anyone would give this bunch of self important, snobby buffoons any money is beyond me. They are fully wrapped up in Washington politics and pageantry. Look at their miserable history of enodorsements (e.g. Lieberman in the primaries…)
They were useful when Birch was in charge. Joe is bad, but he is really just a symptom of what is wrong with current HRC.
My exitcame after their endorsement of Lieberman in the Democratic primaries. Who is more politically aware and has a better sense??
“What is that 20 foot picture of Solomnese doing there?”Its an MRI of his ego.
Half-right
No.
Pageantry? Yes.
But if they were actually as in tune with DC politics as they claim, they’d have been able to accomplish something long ago – if for no other reason than to have a more tangible fundraising carrot than Joe Solmonese’s face.
Romy & MichelleIt reminds me of the dream sequence in ‘Romy & Michelle’s High School Reunion’, when there’s huge pictures of the former “popular” girls all over the wall at the reunion.
Joe, you’re somewhat attractive, but you’re not THAT cute.
He’s right!They know exactly what’s at stake! Their dinners! And their cocktail hours! If the HRC tried to actually accomplish anything, that could all disappear! In an instant!
There was a quote on Andrew Sullivan’s blog about how, halfway through the march, when it was clear that enough people were there to make it a success, a reporter turned to Cleve Jones and said, “You realize you just split the gay movement in two, don’t you?” and Cleve Jones just grinned at him.
Pam can you and Signorile combine forcesto start the “Gay Right Campaign Fund” please? And put these douches out of business?
HRC=Barney Frank=DEMOCRATIC LAPDOGMr. Solmonese is one of our most “ardent supporters”, just as President Obama is our “fierce advocate”. I quit giving money to these people 9 years ago after the debacle with our Congress and the presidential election. Mr. Solmonese makes THREE TIMES THE AVERAGE SALARY FOR A NON-PROFIT leader ($300K+). He is part of the problem with our not getting legislation passed because he and his organization DO NOT have enough diversity within the organization itself. We all know this and his deflection of the question to the “members” diversity is a sham.
That presumes that HRC is part of ‘the gay movement’Elsewhere on Sullivan’s blog ( http://andrewsullivan.theatlan… ) he tries to spin an interview he gave.
I agree with part of that. HRC isn’t self-loathing. They loathe anyone who isn’t like themselves – which is why I disagree with the part about reforming HRC. It is incapable of change for the better; it has only become more and mroe diseased over the last decade. Coopted? It coopts everything it can, chews it up, spits it out and then asks the remains for yet more money. It is Wal-Mart. It is The Borg. It is what we need to purge ourselves of in order to move forward.
ENDA, HRC and the NEMHi all,
I just returned from the NEM, where I was a quiet white male observer. On Saturday, partner and I attended a very well attended afternoon discussion on the LGBT movement and race. What emerged there was a sense that the current goals of the movement are being driven by the likes of HRC to focus nearly exclusively on marriage equality. Several attendees said that ENDA was a more pressing concern among POC.
What struck me, then, was both how often the speakers at Sunday’s rally referred to Dr. King, Bayard Rustin, and other African American civil rights leaders (to usually tepid applause), and how nearly no one during the two hours I was there mentioned ENDA. The biggest applause lines seemed to come from mentioning police raids on gay bars in the South, and when Lady Gaga came to the stage. I started to sense that if Cleve Jones was going to break the movement in two, he was just creating another HRC.
In summary: Only the aristocrats are wise enough to govern I am starting to feel a bit French Revolutionish.
Good Idea!Solmonese obviously has no idea what it’s like to be your average GLBT person – his statements come across as “What do YOU guys know??? You don’t attend these gala events and self-congratulatory tea parties!! What do YOU know?”.
Joe Solmonese is really nothing more than the liberal version of Mary Cheney.
I’d trust Pam, Signorile and even Wayne Besen as new GLBT leadership because they’re real and more “in tune” with gay people. Republicans are in need of “down to earth” leadership and so are we.
PS: I’d like to slap Joe Solmonese for claiming HRC represents the GLBT community. The fuck they do! No man claims to be MY “leader” while allowing Stay-Puft Marshmallow Maggie to verbally slap him around, slander gay people, and screeching so loud he can’t get a word in. Solmonese needs to represent a group of people who’s just as much of a wussy as he is: like the Steve Urkel fanclub.
There’s nothing “Tragic” About KAPOS like Sully and SolomoneseThey’re simply wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Meanwhile . . .Here’s my “Los Angeles Times” op-ed about Barry, Teh Ghey and a dear dead friend.
“ENDA was a more pressing concern among POC.”ENDA is more pressing for anyone, irrespective of color, who is not so well-off financially – or so well-conected within the self-perpetuating queerocracy – as to believe that they will never have to sit in front of a prospective employer who has the right to refuse to hire them because of being gay or transsexual (or sit in front of a prospective employer at all.)
Legal Protections AboundCan we also point out that the crowd at the HRC dinner, for the most part, lives in jurisdictions where they have the necessary legal protections and in industries that tend to be accepting of LGBT people. How much of the distance between HRC and the vast majority of LGBT people is caused by the lack of day-to-day experience with discrimination?
I happen to be in the “rich, white guy” demographic (well “rich” for America, not for the DC area) that seems to be the main demo of the HRC leadership and dinner participants. But I also spend most of my life travelling around the country, typically to red, anti-gay hate states. I have experienced more casual homophobia in the last couple of years travelling than I ever have in my “normal” life. I really think without that kind of experience you can easily lose sight of the importance of the movement.
I am reading a fantastic book on Birmingham called Carry Me Home, written by a white woman named Diane McWhorter who grew up in the city, but had no idea of the civil rights struggle being waged (she was only a child at the time). What I find most interesting about her book is her description of what I find the worst part of Jim Crow as practiced then – the requirement for all African-Americans to not only act as, but consider themselves, second-class citizens.
That, I think, is the root of the AA community’s reluctance to embrace the clear similarities among civil rights movements, and why I think a comparison of anti-gay to anti-Semitic bigotry is far more compelling. Women and POC cannot escape their physical differences to the “norm” of the white guy, but bigotry against LGBT people and Jews is a far more subtle situation. Those of us who don’t fit the stereotypes are far less likely to confront prejudice on a regular basis, and I think you need that to really feel the urgency of correcting the injustices against us.
a questioni think the ‘more politically aware and had a better sense..’ comment was just a general statement and not meant literally. however, i think our time might be better spent giving suggestions to hrc on how they can improve diversity and classism problems. also, i would like to know what they have tried and failed on. has there been outreach that has just gotten poor response? are they turning down people of color for positions in the organization? how can we help them actually represent all glbt follks? if membership was free would more people participate? hrc could have provided half the seats at the dinner for ‘regular members out in bumf*ck’ instead of rewarding each other for the long hours of unacknowledged work with a chance to meet the president. i mean i think it is human nature for there to be myopia at the top of an organization unless there is a mechanism in place to constantly take management down to mix with the least powerful.
here is my idea for joe. soon michael baisden is doing a radio show on gays and joe could go to not represent ‘the gay community’ so much as to take suggestions and to just listen to people of color on how they think he could increase hrc’s diversity. even when one is willing, even trying to increase the membership, yet failing, one needs to find out more things to do and try. michael baisden is very accepting and supportive of gay and really all other types of people…he has a controversial view to many about sex. he is involved in the swinger community; he believes in honesty and responsible behavior. anyway, he reaches a large and largely nonwhite audience and he is fun and supportive. that’s my suggestion anyway. i just think our venting needs to be more constructive. we have to remember that joe is human and it is hard to vigorously fight for people that rarely acknowledge that you are trying hard or care.
I am convinced a few firecrackerslike Pam & Michael could drain what little life is left out of HRC. It’s time for HRC to step aside and let those who are interested in leading LEAD!
It reminded me more of Uncle Joe of the USSR……or Castro in Cuba. It had an oddly totalitarian, communist governement feel to it.
And add to it the release last week mentioning 2017 — I almost expected Joe Solmonese to announce a five-year-plan to us — the unwashed masses — at the HRC dinner.
Seriously, it really seems to be a paternalistic “we know better than you” approach to improving the lives of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people; it really seems to be messages of ego and a hanging on to power that the HRC (and especially Joe Solmonese) seem to be offering us unwashed masses — at least that’s how it seems to me from the outside-looking-in.
Today, the HRC is relavant. By 2017, I don’t think they’ll be as relevant if they don’t soon change their approach to LGBT civil rights of “we know more and better than you.” They seem to me to be alienating their future funding base.
I was there too…But was too far away to hear the speeches, for the most part. My group crashed (figuratively) at the reflecting pool because we had someone in a wheelchair that was not grass-friendly and she could not walk long distances.
I saw signs for ENDA, and for Immigration, and for Marriage. I saw the straight interracial couple with the sign saying “our marriage was once illegal too.” I would say that the crowd DID represent all facets of the movement, even when the speakers did not.
The thing is, it’s not one or the other. ENDA would help a lot of people w/ job security, and force employers to change their policies or enforce them better. As for small businesses and such being exempt, well, lots of smaller businesses would likely change their own policies to be competitive wtih the larger companies and retain employees. There could even be caveats written into parnerships and public funding, sort of like MBEs now – in order to compete for a public project, a firm and their subs has to comply with ENDA.
Marriage equality would help couples get access to federal benefits, no matter what their state says. And it makes things like sharing insurance and property and hospital rights and child custody easier and cheaper. But most of those things don’t matter if you can’t get a job in the first place.
A suggestion
Thirty years and one token trans woman employee?
That by itself merits a sugestion for HRC: open your books to those you’ve claimed to represent – and then disband.
Huh? Seriously – in this context, what’s the difference?
Looking at the image of the eventMy experience setting up events, I notice all the flat screens, and draped walls….none of that is inexpensive.
So it looks MORE ridiculous to want to compare to Civil Rights movement when you are so exageratedly White, and conspicously lavish. It is also quite gauche being lavish while so many people are dealing with home foreclosures and losing jobs.
Civil Rights movement activists were traveling to DC March through towns they couldn’t use restrooms or rent hotel rooms.
On HuffPo the thread by Adele Stan what Obama said, which gave leg tingles that NOW someone with moral authority (Obama)had compared Civil Rights and Human Rights. I mentioned Coretta King and Andrew Young had/have the moral authority to make that comparrison, and did DECADES ago.
Well, really…Rf7777 said they were “wrapped up in” politics – not that they were any good at it. Whole different animal!
Hillary RosenHillary Rosen essentially said the same thing that Joe Solmonese said the day before, namely, that the HRC dinner attendees were more ‘sophisticated’ and politically aware than most of the gay community.
As I stated then, Hubris in its pure form.
Pathetic for sure.
All the images of Joe on the screens, looks like a Joe homage or retrospectivefit for a QUEEN,…so to speak
On some level…Solomonese is correct. The people in that room probably are better aware of the political situation than many of the activists outside. They probably have a better grasp of how politics REALLY works and what is politically feaseable than many of the people shouting on Sunday.
That truth, however, does not negate the lack of voices within the organization (as is the case in many LGBT organizations).
Hubris……and classist.
Can you think of any other organization that has lasted as long as HRC and raised as much money but accomplished so little? They are a pack of smug, self-satisfied, knee-jerk conformist Babbitts–not to mention bootlickers for the Democratic party–and it’s time for them to go. What’s the point of trying to reform something so completely rotten?
Solmonese thinks we should withhold criticism of Obama till 2017. Fine. In the meantime, let’s keep going at him.
Good point
How do we stop the Oppression Olympics?“all gays are white and have money and don’t show up for social justice issues affecting POC”
Really? I didn’t vote in Colorado to preserve affirmative action? I didn’t vote in Colorado to prevent the anti-women’s rights Personhood referendum?
How do we stop the damned Oppression Olympics over who is more persecuted in society and who hasn’t reached out enough to whom and start working together for a society based on empathy and justice?
If no one has the solution, then someone please go back to Jack and Jill and let them know that all they need is to say the word and every referendum that comes along that will harm ethnic minorities I’m not a part of, I’ll just abstain from voting (it’s just not in my nature to be a mean-hearted bastard who wants to deliberately hurt others).
Fortunately, for now, the head of the NAACP has my back, so I will gladly keep his safe.
Pam, are you SURE this statement is correct?Could be hard to transcribe, with his mouth so full of sh*t…
Okay, okay- not helpful. I know. But immensely satifying to call bull when I hear it.
And honestly, after looking at these still shots of the “Bobbsey Twins Redux”, would you expect anything other than slobbering panting around Obama and self-importance from the head DC lapdog?
Compare and contrast; one is looking and the other to the right (interpret THAT however you wish!!!) but damn- Joe is doing a better Obama impression than the guy on SNL…
Just sayin’.
Beautifully said.
Sorry Joe……I’ve been to many, many of those dinners (yeah, I’m a rich white guy)and let me tell you, there could not be a room full of people who are LESS hooked in to the issues. It is a nice night out. Great networking. Good place to run into old friends. Maybe see a star. A nice side effect is that it makes you feel like you are doing something when you have merely written a check. I know, that’s why I used to go-why I was a major contributor–before I my eyes were opened.
Solomonese has to go. It would a great political move for us to force him out. It would send a message to the White House:
There’s a new Sheriff in town. The days of fawning back room sycophancy are over.
It would also show that the folks with the pitchforks and torches have power and will use it if necessary.
JOE HAS GOT TO GO!
I just went OFF on Adele Stan at HuffPoShe responded to my post about Coretta King and Andrew Young
“Alas, Coretta Scott King has passed from the scene, and Andrew Young no longer has half the clout he once did.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…
My response as BoyInBOYCOTT
“”Andrew Young no longer has half the clout he once did.”
Maybe to YOU
When he appears at Equality Alabama, and appeared AT THE MARCH, he commanded respect.”
and
“moral authority isn’t CLOUT…..you have moral authority cuz you EARNED IT, it ain’t a popularity contest
one she didn’t publish
“and Mr Young always spoke so well of you….oh, he didn’t even know who the hell you are.
nevermind”
agreedMy partner and I made it up to the front, where lyonside is right, there were few people in wheelchairs, or who otherwise could not climb the grass hill. I totally agree that the marchers represented a variety of groups, but the crowd seemed predominantly white and male. I was disappointed that so much emphasis was put on marriage and virtually none on ENDA. I do agree, though, that marriage equality may help pry open the door to many other federal and state benefits.
The problem with HRCThe problem with HRC is twofold:
1. They always assume that they know better than the people on the ground; and,
2. They’ve never actually accomplished anything.
For years they’ve taken our money and, as far as I can see, the only thing they’ve done is create a very few very well-paying jobs for themselves. I stopped giving them money years ago, but I’m willing to bet that I’m still included in their 1.4 million members.
During one state marriage fight they would agree to donate to the local group only if they (HRC) were allowed to direct how that money would be spent and only if they (HRC) got the credit for whatever passed. IOW it would have been a “my way or the highway” donation. And since HRC didn’t know sh*t about the local politics, the local group elected the highway and won without their “help”.
Given their track record on accomplishing things I’m now wondering just how much “help” HRC gave CA during the Prop 8 fight.
This mutant black gay says hello this morning!
Or it will show the WHThat they have no one with which to have a well reasoned discussion. Either way, who is the real loser if the WH stopped working with HRC?
Who gets to define “well reasoned”?Oh that’s right – the ones who say they themselves are “well reasoned”.
Perhaps the ‘C’ in HRC should be changed from ‘campaign’ to ‘circle’.
And then they should add a ‘J’
Lobbyists and the WH.
You make the assumption..…that there are no other qualified people or orgs in the gay movement to represent us other than Joe and HRC. It simply is not true.
You also assume, incorrectly, that the discussion with anyone other than HRC will not be well reasoned.
It is possible to be well reasoned and also come from a position of strength.
What you can’t do is hold someone’s feet to the fire while you are simultaneously kissing their ass. It is physically impossible.
Isn’t the question you really need to ask…what would you have expected them to have realistically accomplished by now?
That is the real issue that needs looking at. What do you really expect them to have achieved by now given public attitudes and the political composition of the government?
HRC does not make laws. All they can do is lobby candidates who at the end of the day have to go back and face their constituents.
Really what recognition do you think you could have received on a federal level had HRC been more militant? What laws do you think Dubya would have signed in favor of LGBT rights? What laws would the Republican controlled congress have put on his or Clinton’s desk back in the late 90s?
It seems to me that for better or worse, HRC has spent the better part of the last decade cultivating the necessary contacts in order to get pro LGBT policy passed when the opportunity presented itself. HRC has not been in a position to pressure the government to do anything for more than 10 years because we’ve alternately had a President and Congress that would not listen. Now they’ve got the ear of a government that is willing to listen and people are doing everything possible to ensure that they lose that connection.
The numbers I heard……were 3.8 million to CA for No on 8.
This was after much pleading by EQCA.
Sounds okay until one realizes that HRC sucks about 6 million a year OUT of CA in the form of donations.
Again, these are figures I have heard from more than one insider. I don’t know where to verify.
I could agree with you, exceptas a single white guy at 40 years old, I was teaching high schoolers. Predominantly homophobic high schoolers with predominantly homophobic parents. Once the anti-gay vandalism and graffiti started showing up in and around my room, once the harassment was aimed at me by students with the administration’s knowledge and consent, once the parents were calling to complain that their children shouldn’t be taught by a fag, it was clear that I wouldn’t have a career in education.
There is a physical difference to the “norm” of the straight white guy. I’m not married to a woman and don’t have a girlfriend or kids. That’s all that was needed for my world to crash around my ears. That simple physical difference–not having a girlfriend or wife to keep up public appearances.
Country ClubHRC seems more like some of the “Country Clubs” I gigged at in the 80′s near Detroit – ALL white folk being served dinner; ALL black folk doing the serving (this was in 1986). The jazz entertainment was also all black (except for myself), and we were treated as “the help”, despite how a few of the musicians in the group were some of the most highly respected musicians in the state.
I guess Joe sees anyone outside of HRC as a pajama-wearing Queer to dismiss.
What should they have accomplished?Since HRC was formed nearly 3 decades ago (1980) I would have thought they’d have accomplished at least something by now.
I dunno… what have local groups accomplished in less time? Let’s see…marriage in MA, CT, IA, VT, NH and (with luck) ME. Hate crime laws in how many states? Anti-discrimination laws in how many others? Seems to me that local groups have been able to accomplish a lot while HRC has been learning the ropes in DC and rubbing shoulders with politicians who haven’t agreed to give us squat — while at the same time taking our money and telling us to go slow.
Who would you rather support — a group that hasn’t accomplished a thing in 30 years or a group that’s actually delivered solid legislation?
“who is the real loser if the WH stopped working with HRC?”Easy: HRC.
Hi, Kev.Is it snowing up there yet? :)
Joe S. is to the LGBT communitywhat Clarence Thomas is to the black community. Technically one of us but in the broader sense not one of us at all. In bed with our oppressors. And perfectly smug–he’s got his, and the rest of us can go whistle.
I never thought I’d defend Clarence Thomas, but…Sorry, but Solmonese is worse. Thomas at least did take a reality-based position on cross-burning.
Solmonese?
He’s the equivalent of what Scalia would be if, all things being equal, he was a closeted transsexual.
“Sophisticated”Joe Solmonese wouldn’t be NEARLY as “sophisticated” if it wasn’t for all the average gays giving him their money, for nothing (other than more requests for your money).
It would serve him right if his “sophisticated” lifestyle was taken away from him as easily as it was given to him.
And I’m in total agreement with those of you who say Solmonese of course DOESN’T want to do anything because the day equality happens is the day his job is over, and the donations will almost completely dry up.
If YOU were riding high with a salary like that, would YOU want it all to end? Do gay republicans want to lose their trust funds and other $$$ from mommy and daddy?
HRC doesn’t need to go away, they need a militant group to tag-team withI do not know why the LGBT community has not realized the benefits of having mainstream and radical groups working together for LGBT rights.
History has shown that the radical group tends to scare The Powers That Be into working with the mainstream organization. Think Malcolm X and Martin Luther King.
We need to become better strategists instead of wanting to tear everything down and start from square one all the time.
Stop the Cannibalism, Keep Your Eyes on the PrizeI am not an HRC member, but maybe I will become one now. I don’t understand this impulse to destroy the successful. I looked up HRC’s financial statements, which are available on line, and saw that their income has grown roughly 10-fold in two decades. Folks, that is SUCCESS. What in God’s name is wrong with success? HRC curreently takes in about $45 million a year. I would love to see them taking in 10 times that. The bigger they are, the more clout they can have. I hope to see the day where they can swing a really big bat, because that’s something that gets recognized in political circles.
I saw the TV coverage of Obama’s speech to HRC. It was pretty amazing to me. I am old enough to remember when it was a really big deal to get recognition from a city council member, yet there was the president of the United States embracing our issues, and us. I was impressed, to put it very, very mildly. To blame the current president of HRC for every setback, and for whatever lack of progress there has been, is insane. HRC has grown, but it is currently dwarfed by the forces aligned against it. For that you are going to blame … HRC? By what logic is HRC to be blamed for Focus on the Family’s hatred?
Are the gay organizations too white? Yeah, I think they are. I’d personally like to see more black, Asian, and Latino people up top and out front. My understanding, from talking to people in local gay organizations, is that people of color are frequently afraid to be seen in public because of the reactions from family and friends. It’s a chicken-and-egg issue, and it will take time to make progress. In the meantime, are we going to cannibalize ourselves on the brink of serious advances? We’re about to get federal hate crimes protections, and ENDA looks like it’ll be next. Then DADT. Eventually (and I think this will take a long time), DOMA repeal.
Yeah, Obama says he supports us but these things haven’t happened. Well, the man has been president for NINE MONTHS. It takes more time than that. HRC understands it, so — by the way — they ARE “a little” more politically sophisticated than much of the population, gay or otherwise. I look at the potshots being taken and see a lot of militant posing. A lot of vogueing for the camera, so to speak. Which is fine and good, until it starts to threaten things that are real. I’m much less interested in “feeling militant” than I am in real things, and I think that one element we need to achieve real things is a strong, well-funded, “elitist” lobbying organization in Washington.
What’s Salmonese’s incentive?It might be that Joe Salmonese is most concerned with his compensation and political access as head of the HRC. A look at the most recent IRS Form 990 from Human Rights Campaign, Inc. and Human Rights Campaign Foundation show him receiving ~$240,000 in compensation in 2008. My monthly donation for several years has only paid for 1/1000 of his pay each year.
To look at the 990s, go here:
http://foundationcenter.org/fi…
For the income and expenditures for
Human Rights Campaign, Inc enter EIN 52-1243457
Human Rights Campaign Foundation enter EIN 52-1481896
There are 30 some pages in each that you might find interesting in addition to the officers and directors compensation.
Not Too Much MoneySalmonese got a sitting president of the United States to make the most powerful endorsement of gay issues that’s ever been made. As far as I’m concerned, $240K a year is a small price to pay.
Nothing? Really?So the federal hate crimes law about to be enacted is “nothing” to you?
Did You Listen to Obama or HRC?The Equality people might not have emphasized ENDA — frankly, I think that whole thing was half ego and half posing — but Obama’s speech to HRC prominently mentioned ENDA. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that ENDA is the next item on the list after hate crimes legislation.
It Would Be Nice….but the HRC types are too snooty to join forces with the more so-called “radical” (AKA non-democrat-ass-kissing) gays. Plus they’d expect you to shut your mouth, not have an opinion, and only allow Joe Solmonese to speak for you.
Fuck.THAT.
Interesting.Having just read through the comments, I am struck by how much they all sound just like a November a couple years back — except this time, there’s no one saying “well, they did this” or “well, they did that”.
I see a lot of anger. A lot of frustration. A lot of really offended people.
It makes me feel good — I’ve felt this way for a long time.
There are lot’s of bad things about HRC, but there’s one thug that needs to be talked about when you note just how bad they are.
As was pointed out, time and time again, to me in particular, often by posters who have also commented here, was that HRC has the political influence that no other organization does.
None of them can match that “insider” feel. Those who have worked in national politics will know that money is king — money and members, inflated or not, is what makes people say “hey — what?”.
The people in positions of power in Washington — not the elected ones, either, but the constantly present employees at the upper levels — are all of a similar mindset — they are, after all, in Washington.
They are, after all, the people who actually do the stuff.
So keep this in mind — they are close personal friends.
Solomonese has personally helped to elect many of the Dems from his time with Emily’s List. And Emily’s List is very influential when it comes to such things. He worked for Frank’s campaign. He’s been someone with connections and personal, face to face knowledge of people there outside the usual realm of in front of the camera.
THere’s a strong and bitter taste that comes from having those who represent you say they do so because they know more about it than you do.
What they are doing is reaffirming to those politicians and staffers that they are still their friends, still part of the team.
Still inside the beltway.
They have access — they have the ability to get in to see someone that most of the folks, if not all, posting here won’t have. They get the phone calls after one of us leaves an office to be asked “hey — what’s up with the tranny/dyke/dude who just came in here asking about Immigration?”
And so long as they have the money to pay their bills (which many of those attendees will keep giving), and as long as they have the only scorecards and as long as they claim to be the largest, they will keep that.
So what can we do?
1. Start a new PAC — a series, actually. Federal and local levels. Raise funds, approve candidates, and send out press releases like crazy.
That takes money, and effort, and coordination, and someone’s gotta do that. Easy to do when its small, not so easy when it’s larger, on a part time basis. So you’ll have to find someone that’s able to do it. Ideally, someone who knows people and can get listened to.
2. Flood Capitol Hill. Phone calls, emails, hand written letters, and, most especially, in person appearances — both in Washington and at the home offices where ever you live. Give them the message of what’s important to you.
You’ll want to stay on message, of course — so that everyone’s giving the same info and doesn’t drift too much. SO you’ll need porganization for that, scripts for that, people to keep that running.
You’ll need facts and figures, as well. Demographics that you can show from social authorities about why this needs to happen, set up in a manner that allows for making emotional arguments in nice, short sound bite style ways.
3. You need to keep doing it. Those personal connections happen over time — and that means you need to be memorable — either through what’s really bribery via dinner plates or large campaign contributions or publicly stating you support them in elections, or else via your sparkling personality among the five thousand other people doing the same thing.
Of course, what will happen, in the end, if you can pardon my cynical outlook, is that you will end up with a group that looks and sounds, well, just like a different version of the HRC. Maybe it’ll be more colorful — maybe it will be mostly one color (the money thing — money to fund all of that — is going to make it pretty white, though) but it will still be the HRC.
Or…
You can run for office yourself.
Just once. This is a nation that was founded in part on the idea of citizen lawmakers.
The rules for running for office are relatively simple as a result, and it doesn’t matter if you are a thrice convicted baby killing mass murderer — as long as you want to do so, you can run for office.
You see, the more people who run, the greater the likelihood of someone getting elected. And once you are elected, you will be come the one the HRC has to kowtow too.
They will come to you. Because you’ve done what they have not.
And they will give you some of that money, and they will invite you to those dinners, and you can say “f this” when Joe Solomonese’s replacement stands up and says “we know better than the rest”.
Because then you can say, as you leave, with your other fellow elected LGBT people, before the cameras and the news crews, that apparently they don’t.
Until then…
You are just pajama wearing, cheeto eating, fringe left folks screaming into the void who don’t know better.
Cause they said so.
I could also agree with you, exceptas a single white guy in your 40s you were teaching high schoolers. Which means that you were allowed to pursue an education, find a job and teach for several years before you were found out. The fact that you were able to do all these things when some people can’t even get through the door proves that there is a difference between how racism and homophobia work (oh, and why not assume transphobia too). Sorry, your argument sucks.
No it won’tIt’s mission will change to enforcing the law and being on the lookout for obvious cases of discrimination and loopholes in the law. But it wil still be necessary.
Not yet but it willLoving York County, I am!
Glad it’s turning out positive experience for you kevSweet talk them Maine voters
There’s a problem with thatAnd that is that LGBT people, like most progressives, have been told for decades, “You need to be niiiiiiiiice. You need to show people that you’re not a scary, threatening gang of violent perverts! Use your nice words!”
And when those of us who are more than willing to get down and dirty and be the militant arm speak up, we’re told, “Oh noes, we mustn’t sink to THEIR LEVEL.”
Today’s LGBT activists are, by a wide majority, a bunch of piddling little wusses curled in a ball crying, “Please don’t kick me again.” When what we really need to do is get up and bash back.
Bill Maher was spot on when he said last month, “The Democrats just never learn. Americans don’t really care which side of an issue you’re on as long as you don’t act like pussies.”
Stop acting like pussies. Bash back. Tell religious bigots that they are full of shit, that they are hateful monsters, and they are unAmerican. The next time someone yells a slur at you, get up in their face and yell as loud as you can. If they hit you, beat the hell out of them, and when they’re on the ground, keep kicking. If a local business decides to donate to anti-equality measures, put them out of the business and let everyone know why.
Stop being professional victims, for fuck’s sake. Americans are disguted by weak people. No one wants to side with the losers.
not mutant…think rare and precious…..PRECIOUS!
Those who run HRC on the national are quite detached for the most part it seemsI do want to point out that their state affiliates are more diverse. The local steering committee here in Charlotte is a mix of races and socioeconomic groups.
HehAbout to be enacted. So after nearly 30 years they’ve almost managed to pass hate crimes legislation? Let’s send out a press release.
Wear a Maine 1 t-shirt, and be the new guy in townIt wouldn’t hurt…..*wink*
The NGLTF does a much better job representing usthan does the HRC, any day of the week.
They should be involved with the Victory Fundand with getting qualified individuals into the line of succession for Federal judgeships. This is the way we should have been thinking 50 years ago in order to get our freedoms and our rights, through getting our views on the courts and in the legislatures. Screw the WH, it’s always going to be turning over with people scared of our issues.
you don’t need permission to start an organization. To me, the discussion about HRC not wanting to “play” with more militant groups is besides the point. And HRC did co-exist with Queer Nation and ACT-UP at one time.
I’m saying rather than put a lot of energy into dissing or tearing down HRC, like-minded people may be better served starting the kinds of groups they want to see. If those groups can prove they can “get things done” (however you want to define it), HRC may be more willing to work with them on strategy.
Now, the problem I see with more radicalized groups is that their anger and lack of long-range goals is a poor foundation for an organization, so they generally flame out within a couple of years amid in-fighting. Being pissed is good for mobilizing action, but without organization that pissiness tends to get turned in on itself.
I actuallyagree with this. NGLTF does do a better job and is generally more inclusive.
Right now…..today. Not what might happen next week or tomorrow. Name the substantive, real, legislation that HRC has gotten through congress. What have they accomplished spending that tenfold money increase you deem success? This isn’t an attack. I really want to know. But again not “working on” not “hoping to” not “talking with.” Actual federal gay rights legislation they have gotten through congress during their existence.
That’s how the religious right did itand pretty much everyone since the 1970′s.
As you say, very revealing comments …Props to Dan Lemon for asking the question — it’s great to see this issue being discussed on CNN. HRC is what it is, and its leadership doesn’t show any signs of wanting to change. Solomonese’s lack of respect for the people who weren’t in the room, and for diversity in general, doesn’t seem to me like it’ll help build the broader alliances we need to make progress … and of course it’s a slap in the face to a large chunk of the community. How strategic!
And excellent points from various commenters about ENDA getting relatively little attention at the march.
jon
Already working on itRelocating to the East Coast at the end of the year, and prepping for law school.
He’s just the latestof a long history of asshat HRC headers. Elizabeth Birch and Hilary Rosen are two more “leaders” of the “largest” organization for LG rights.
WOAH!Thanks for that. I thought that there was something stinking to high heaven about their membership numbers. Looks like they use the same math that Ebay does.
OKthat was frakking hilarious. He’s the superhero of the LG movement, dontcha know? wink
Orthey could fund research like The Task Force does. But that’s not nearly as exciting as OMG! Dinner with teh PRESIDENT!
Useless with Birch tooBirch told that NOW was a better fit for Trans rights than HRC. That’s pretty much when they lost me forever.
I kind of agree, except thatI’m sure that when HRC finally gos belly up (and I do hope that’s sooner rather than later), I can’t imagine that his pals at the DNC won’t give him a nice, cushy job, or arrange for one with one of their various allies. Joe’s feathering his own nest, and it’s not just for the present, either.
I would so totally donateWow. Could you imagine a truly inclusive grassroots organization run by those we trust to represent us and help us represent ourselves? My wallet would be so open and I’d beg to volunteer.
Oh?
Methinks Lambda Legal won’t go quietly into an enforced purple-n-yellow night.
Nor should it.
I have some serious issues with its own hiring practices, but it did more with Lawrence v. Texas than HRC ever has – or ever will.
Successful? You’re kidding, right?Nobody here is trying to claim that HRC isn’t good at fundraising. The problem is, that’s all they’re good at, and all their fundraising doesn’t lead to anything–except more fundraising, of course, and plush offices with sky-high salaries. Other than that, and other than getting to sip cocktails at the White House once in a while, what have they ever achieved? Their stated aim is advancing LGBT rights. If all it took to achieve that was fundraising, we’d all be on the bandwagon for them. Are you seriously trying to argue that success at fundraising is the same as success at promoting LGBT equality?!? (Not that they actually include the T as anything but lip service.) Thanks for the laugh.
Yeah more politically aware?I hardly think so. Talk to those of us who actually do the hard work, like organizing volunteers, lobbying our legislators every year, plan marches, plan protests. I’m not saying that the HRC crowd isn’t politically aware. I’m saying that those of us fighting in the trenches should be given all due credit instead of being poopoo-ed that we just don’t UNDERSTAND that they HAVE to throw these circle jerk galas for themselves.
We know perfectly well how these games are played and frankly, I think alot of us are ready to write new rules.
ENDA house vote in a few weeksI wish we would place a fraction of this energy towards contacting our lawmakers regarding ENDA instead of fighting amongst ourselves. (meaning the gay community) This vote is coming up quick and we need to be united as a community and demand equality.
Successful LobbyingIt is often difficult to quantify success when evaluating a lobbying organization. The political system has a bunch of decision points. It works incrementally. There is rarely just one group on your side. In fact, if there’s only one, you’ll lose.
So, if you are demanding a particular piece of legislation that HRC wrote, I doubt you’ll find it. There is the hate crimes legislation, which has been inserted into the defense appropriations bill and will become law. There is ENDA, which is coming up for a House vote soon. We’ll see how that goes. However, you can’t say that HRC passed the hate crimes bill, and if ENDA goes through you can’t say they did that, either. But if ENDA fails, people here will blame HRC for the failure.
What you get with a lobbying outfit is hopefully a slow buildup of influence over time. A seat at the table. A voice. I dare say that when a sitting president of the United States comes to your annual meeting and gives a stemwinder of a speech, nationally televised, embracing you and your goals, that you are ahead of the curve. The problem in this forum, and in other places where people are doing the insurgent pose, is that nothing will satisfy you.
You’ve decided that HRC and its leadership is your enemy. Why? Because they’re successful, and their core membership is affluent, well-dressed, and tends to be insiders at least to some degree. This is what happens when you succeed in America. If you’re going to have influence in Washington, you are going to play their game to some degree. Maybe the real problem that many of you have is that you don’t want success, because it will leave you with no external adversary on which to pin your personal setbacks?
I think back to college, which for me was at a liberal university in a liberal city. I remember sitting there one day and saying to myself, “It’s not about gay rights now. It’s much more about getting through this school, finding someone to be with, and getting a job, and doing well.” Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been working for gay rights since then, but my own life has been about other things. When I see the posers out there who counsel that militancy is the only strategy, I wonder whether there’s an unresolved instinct of sabotage at work, a desire to pull everyone down in the misery that they inhabit, so we can all blame the Cruel, Cruel World for our troubles.
Heh YourselfAnd if ENDA is enacted you will say the same thing. And if DADT is repealed, you will say the same thing. I think the real issue here is your hatred of a successful lobby and its affluent core supporters, many of whom have been so much more successful in life than you. Envy is a destructive emotion.
Incorrect.I am not an insurgent, nor is it a pose or posture.
Indeed, the same applies to many of those who comment here — and elsewhere — and that you say such indicates to me that you aren’t familiar with them, or with the things being discussed here in subtext.
That your phrasing is contemptuous is sorta unavoidably obvious, and somewhat expected given the apologia you present.
The reason they are an opponent has little, in fact, do with their affluence (and, indeed, for most people here as I see it, money is anything but a sign of success). Their manner of dressing is of no importance either, and what’s fairly obvious is that you’ve missed the point where some of the regulars who pass through and read here are in fact attendees of such a function.
That they are insiders, even, isn’t actually the problem — there are many people ho are insiders who share the same sentiments and work towards the sorts of stuff discussed here.
The problem is that the focus they have and the strategies they are using do not represent the values of the people here. As your own defense points out, they value being well dressed over dressing like, say, I do. They value money over love. They value compromise that includes the abandonment of a large chunk of the LGBT community.
You reveal this in your assertion about what you see as the real problem, when, in fact, the real problem is you, and the values you are espousing, even as you share the same ideals.
That, right there, is what people here find makes one an opponent. And that does, indeed, make you such, as a point.
Most folks here favor the three tier approach: you can join us, you can get out of our way, or you can oppose us.
You — and, by extension within the context of the thread — are what is in opposition here — just the same as those who oppose our shared ideals but differing values are opponents.
I think back to college, which was a public university in a fairly liberal city in a pretty libertarian conservative state. And I remember sitting in my sociology classes (long before I got my PhD) and thinking “damn, them gays are really annoying.”
Because I didn’t need to worry about getting through school, finding someone to be with, getting a job, and doing well.
That’s my joy of privilege — one you lack. The problem is that I got it by denying myself. Went on to work actively against the stuff you were working on.
And I wonder when people call militancy (which this movement is currently based in) sabotage just how long they’ve valued assimilation, which is the far greater form of sabotage to me.
And that just makes me rage against Mattachine’s such as yourself all the more.
The prejudice inherent in your statement is more destructive.
I can’t thnk of a more apt encapsulation of the classist position than you just described.
IN it I see every form of institutional injustice laid bare, from racism to sexism, homophobia and transphobia, assimilation and privilege, the entirety of ills.
And to think you use it to defend an organization that is being accused of precisely that.
Wow.
pray no hook catches that nose and pulls it down to the gutter.
Time for a juvenile tauntEver heard the following phrase?
For some reason, its what comes to mind when I see this:
Failure, however, is easy to quantify.
‘Zero’
There you have it: HRC quantified.
It’s even at the local levelHonestly, Pam, this type of elitist claptrap filters down. I was at an event several months back where the HRC people talked down to every other group as though we were idiots who couldn’t tie our own shoes much less advocate for the LGBT community. All this while handing out free tote bags, hats, shirts, stickers and buttons as though it were a trade fair.
I kept thinking how much all that junk cost, then thought about the fact that Joe Solomnese makes more than 10 times what I do, then thought of the fact that I never have received a single thing from HRC that wasn’t promoting some “black tie gala” or “cocktail party” or “celebrity meet and greet” and it flew all over me.
I refuse to give them a cent. They have no concept of my life as a gay man (and yes… white) who lives on less than 25K a year because of disability. In fact, their people telegraphed to me at that event that I wasn’t even worth thinking about because I couldn’t write checks for hundreds of dollars. In short, my issues really don’t matter… the parties do.
Instead, I do what I can in my community, talking to people, being a media contact on marriage equality, and even contributing my measly (but precious) $10 or $15 to fights like the No on 1 Campaign in Maine.
OMFG, I am so impressed with you dyssonanceThanks SO MUCH for setting WW straight. All very true. Bravo, go dyssonance!
OMFG, you can’t be serious??How insulting. Have to go for the low bar when you have run out of anything substantive to say? Clean up your act or get out of the playground.
Don’t Give Any MoneyDo you have similar envy and hatred toward everyone who makes more money than you do?
The Envy & Resentment FactorA high proportion of the invective hurled at HRC centers on the organization’s wealth and the economic position of its major donors. The commentary reeks of class envy: You hate Solmonese for how much money he makes, and you hate HRC because they throw black-tie events around the country for high-end donors. As every other major lobbying organization does that, but in your view it’s a capital offense for a gay organization to do it, because in addition to being a gay organization HRC is supposed to be a socialist group.
Well, look, I’d rather see a flatter distribution of income, but it’s not a gay organization’s job to deliver it. HRC has one major task: Improve the legal standing of gay people through lobbying in Washington and the states. They go about it in the same way that other lobbies do. They raise money from rich people and corporations, and put it into their various outreach efforts. They work within the system as it is, but you are expecting them to not only advocate for gay people but to work outside of the current economic and social system that you hate.
Because they don’t do that, you’ve decided that they value money more than love. Your evidence? They have a lot of money. Therefore they must value it more than love. That’s what all the evil rich do, after all. You just know it. It’s all about the envy for you, and not a whole lot else.
HRC Is A Gay Group, Not A Socialist VanguardYou’re enraged because they aren’t trying to tear down the current economic structure. But why should they? HRC is a group of gay people who are trying to get gay people more broadly included in society. You might hate society in general, but most gay people don’t.
Where Is Queer Nation These Days, Anyway?Most of the hating on HRC seems to come from QN types. So, why not resurrect Queer Nation so you’ll have someplace to go? If you don’t like HRC, fine. Don’t join. Does anyone have a gun pointed at your head forcing you to join HRC?
abso-F*CKIN-lutely
Make that teach for several weeksAnd find one job long distance by phone. The other, they were desperate for a math teacher. In addition, just being a man, I was a minority in the teaching field.
Sorry, your argument sucks. It does. Logically, it doesn’t hold. I pursued an education wholly through student loans. Anyone can get those.
But, if you want to drive a wedge between the gay community and racial minorities, feel free. Next time a referendum comes up here in Colorado wanting to eliminate affirmative action and other issues motivated by bias, I’ll call AM760 and tell our local progressive talk show hosts that they are wrong in opposing those referenda. Because you CLEARLY don’t want any support from a fag.
Again, incorrect.I ask this question, directly and without malice, because I’d like to know:
Are you truly this blind to the rest of the community as a whole? Is gay really all you think matters(and, if so, then know directly I am not gay, at all)?
The invective, Mr. Wilson, is because that’s the chief indicator of their classist position, and we are not so foolish as to believe that wealth is not power (see my earlier post to this thread).
I don’t give a rats’ ass emotionally about how much money Schmoe makes — I hate him because he’s akin to a deceitful lump of semi-sentient fecal matter in a burlap bag. Please, try to spin that as harsh invective. The HRC itself I hate because they consistently have shown they consider me and my life to be something they can use as a bargaining position, a “necessary compromise”.
Incidentally, the HRC is both a political group and a social organization — not a socialist one, as you describe (betraying the nature of your trollish concerns, and allowing many to see such).
Once again, you utterly ignore what I pointedly noted was incorrect, thus making yourself not only illogical, but furthering a straw man argument by intentionally stating the same thing I just pointed out was correct.
Then you have the gall to attempt to inform me of why I hate someone and something — indicating further your contempt in the subtext and direct reading. I must ask here, with not a small amount of snark, what makes you think that you have actually acquired the power of mind reading, and if so, then you really need to have a cat scan done because you’ve managed to do it entirely wrong.
What makes you think I’m interested in a flatter distribution of income? On what do you base that statement, given I’ve made no commentary regarding such — here or elsewhere?
You prove your utter lack of understanding about the missions of HRC in your second paragraph — something thirty seconds of effort establishes that you are wrong in — for example, were you aware that their stated mission includes straight people as well as gay people? You speak to only half of the HRC, as well — even in your errors. Perhaps you should gain an understanding of what the organization is and does before you start making yourself look like an uninformed troll in a very public place.
Next you make a conjectural leap without any supposition again about me, and about the poster’s here by saying we “hate” the system. This is once more, inaccurate, incorrect, and, in a not so surprising finality, infantile.
Then you again repeat the same thing I already noted was utterly false to begin with — the same strawman that they are hated because they have money. Well as I stated before, that is not the case, so your description of the evidence I have provided s, in fact, a lie, done willingly and with intent, and sorry, but I don’t find liars all that appealing, especially those who suck at it as badly as you do.
Perhaps if you had actually read what was said, despite its length and verbosity, you might have made an argument that would have been sound instead of simply repetition of the one I already established was hollow, but I am currently of the suspicion that the actual issue is your capability of comprehension.
When you have matured, and actually learned something, please, come back and have a discussion. Until then, your personal prejudices should likely be restrained.
Further liesI have a strong penchant for disliking people who wilfully lie and create straw men for the purpose of arguing.
).
Especially here, where I’m already closely watched because I have a rather, um, incisive sense of humor and a strong willingness to stand for my principles.
You, sir, have tweaked me a tad, and so before I engage in taking a large bite out of you, I will give you this one chance to apologize for lying multiple times about myself and those here.
In detail, with specific citations.
After that, I will eat you, unless I am blocked by request of the admin (preferably politely
The HRC is expressly not a gay group, as well, making that another lie, although I’d be hard pressed to argue the point given their history.
When you reach a point where you are capable of ceasing to be an uninformed troll, please do feel free to make that apology, and then we can engage in a discussion.
Thanks, however…… it’s quite obvious through repetition and failure to use logic that he’s a troll, which means I’ve wasted my time.
This has two effects — first, it gives him the attention he craves; second, it pisses me off, and gives me a desire to erase his miserable existence in a barrage of unyielding cruelty the sort of which has made at least a couple of regulars here strongly dislike me, lol.
I’m going to try and hold off on the second part as best I can, lol
Without Malice? Oh Puhleeze!Both of your answers fairly dripped with malice. Especially the second one, where you say you “hate” both HRC and Solmonese, and that Solmonese is “akin to a deceitful lump of semi-sentient fecal matter in a burlap bag.” You need to work on all that hate. It’ll eat you alive.
They don’t.But in your predictable way, you failed to read and understand that.
HRC Is A Gay GroupTheir mission statement: “HRC envisions an America where lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are ensured equality and embraced as full members of the American family at home, at work and in every community.”
Yes, trollTHose parts did indeed do so.
However, the question was without it, but, truly, thank you for affirming your inability to read and your specific intent to continue to troll and ignore substantive discussion.
Saves me energy, you past date douchebag.
Ah, so now you insult straight peoplein your ignorance and classist idiocy.
But hey, the fact that not all transgender people are gay, and bisexual people are not always gay is probably a tad bit messy for you to actually pout thought into.
Lord, save me from dumbass trolls who haven’t a clue what they are talking about.
Oh Boy …Looks like I ran into the prototypical angry transsexual, huh? Yikes!
Nope.Nothing prototypical here.
That would require my existence before the concept was structured, which would make me something akin to 180 years old or so, and I’m not even close to that. Nor likely to make it there.
Angry? Well, I’ve been labeled such, but usually that’s due to my posts being perceived as coming in anger, which is a mistake.
I can be angry, of course.
Transsexual? You bet your ass. And that fear you feel? That’s often derived from aspects of transphobic thoughts.
So, now that you’ve finally identified my nature, when do you plan to apologize for the lies?
Wrong AgainIn your first reply, you told me that it is me and my values that are the problem, and said that you “rage against Mattachines such as yourself.” You have defined acceptable conversation as essentially that conversation that agrees with you. Well, I don’t agree with you. And if you don’t like it, that’s really too bad for you.
IncorrectI used your expressions of those values as they related to the HRC and the concepts surrounding them, in particular the classism and inherent social prejudices that accompany it.
You provided an excellent example of the kind of mindset, in other words, that’s responsible for the issues.
But hey — comprehension isn’t everyone’s bag, so I guess I can let it slide this time…
Apologize For What?What do I have to apologize for? For calling you a liar? Oops, you called me that. For calling you a douchebag? Oops, you called me that. For calling you a troll? Oops, you called me that. For spewing my hatred? Oops, you’ve declared your hatred for HRC and Solmonese. Sorry, dyssonance, I’ve got nothing to apologize for. What you need to do, on the other hand, is take your meds.
A remindersince you choose not to read what you reply to:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/…
@ghostbuckYou probably dig deeper for your donations than many of the black tie attendees….which is amazing.
Shill much?
No – its class hate. But the parameters of the ‘class’ in question are not simply defined by money.
No – I hate the fact that he makes any money at all for engaging in activity that harms my people. In fact, he’d be overpaid if his salary was zero.
Let’s see…
Black-tie? No issue with such. Though I’ve never been to such an HRC affair, I’ve been to others (granted, as a guest)
High-end donors? Again – thinking that this is the issue smacks of the powerful wanting to paint themselves as the persecuted, and the elite expecting no opposition to their attempts to define the issue so as to silence the real people.
The ‘class’ that we hate is not defined solely by money. Ted Kennedy and George W. Bush were both obscenely wealthy rich kids who never once had to even think about the issues that plague the lives of those outside their own ‘idle rich’ class. Yet, Teddy, for all his other failings, did.
The people with whom we take issue are those who have no – and do not want any – concept of life the way it really is yet expect us genuflect to their (often ill-gotten) sophistication.
Do you think anyone gives a damn as to how much money Hillary Rosen actually makes given the words she assaults us with? Even if somehow she’s not rich, she was shilling for those whose lifeblood is the status quo…
like Joe Solmonese.
Nice try William.
I’ve got it!
I’ve got it now!
Rush Limbaugh is in the house!
Mystery solved.
agree, ww is a troll
Well said, Gordon Gecko!Tell us, are you on HRC’s payroll or Obama’s? It must be one or the other. I can’t think of any other way to explain your deliberate inability to grasp obvious points.
Then again, maybe you really do believe this “Greed is good” crap. That would explain your partisanship for HRC and your apologia for Solmonese, wouldn’t it?
Focus on ENDAThe single best way to battle the charge of elitism would be for HRC to make ENDA a priority. Employee Non-Discrimination Act would do more to help the non-rich and the non-vanilla (in all senses of the word) than anything else the HRC could do. Working class people need to be protected from discrimination, even more than they need to be allowed to marry or to serve in the armed services.
Is anyone here able to come up with a good estimate of the number (or percentage) of LGTB people who live in US states without basic protections against discrimination? I think it would be a substantial number.
Just for the sake of accuracy…There must be 100′s of references by now on this site to the “tuxes” and “black ties” worn by the attendees at this HRC function. I understand what it is shorthand for, and won’t waste my time arguing with you over your views of HRC. Aside from the fact that there must have been some women at this dinner not wearing tuxes, I can’t help but notice that every photo I’ve seen of the attendees shows the men wearing standard neckties and suits. Solomonese? Suit. Obama? Suit. One photo I saw shows around thirty men in standard suits and one off to the side in a bowtie and tux.
Okay, you may now continue with your “We hate Joe S. and the HRC” threads.
I know!Maybe they’ll buy another building with all of the donations! They could try something different for a change and put most of that $45M into the local communities from which that suck that money up.
Haven’t They Done That?Unless I have read wrong, the next thing coming up in Congress after hate crimes (which was successfully attached to the defense appropriations bill) is ENDA. So what’s your beef?
ResponseExactly what activity has Solmonese engaged in that “harms (our) people,” as you have charged? The most I can come up with is that, at one point, HRC sided with those who didn’t want to include transgendered people in ENDA. Frankly, I could go either way on that myself. I think the gay rights struggle is about sexual orientation, not gender identity. I’m sympathetic to transgenered people, but their issues are not mine. They should form their own group.
I Think They Have Black Tie EventsNot the meeting last weekend in Washington, but at other times. Maybe I’m wrong about that, though.
Not time to read all 133 comment…just WHAT ABOUT JULIEN BOND?Shouldn't we, including Joe S. and GAY INC. all join the NAACP? as was recommended at NEM?
As I said…“There must be 100′s of references by now on this site to the “tuxes” and “black ties” worn by the attendees at THIS HRC function.”
IncorrectTransfolk include a significant number of gay people (inclusive of gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals) and perhaps one of the most readily apparent example sof this is that drag performers are indeed transgender.
So, once again, you esablish a lack of understanding on your part, and reveal that you have some ambivalence, as a result, towards gay people.
The issues may not be yours (other than that little niggling thing about your gender variance of being attracted to members of the same sex) personally, but the re it is.
So, since the HRC has * consistently* acted in the past to harm gay people, albeit trans gay people, they are, in fact, harming gay people.
Incidentally, that line about “their issues are not our issues”?
Used by the former head of the HRC. She opted to suggest NOW as a better fit.
Transphobic commentary aside, thanks for playing
No, they haven’t.Not that I expect you to be aware of that, mind you, since you have never been a member of the HRC and are only considering it, but they have not made it a priority, merely a stated goal.
And it could be argued that the only reason the made it a goal was because of all those other organizations (which, I should note, was pretty much the entire field of lgbt rights orgs) suddenly pointing out their actions previously were non inclusive, which did significant damage to their reputation on capitol hill.
I had at least seven or eight discussion about that while I was lobbying for ENDA with congressional staff.
I Don’t Believe YouYou’re an angry trans-sexual who has stated that you “hate” HRC and its president, and who has flung insults at anyone who disagrees with you. You’re not credible.
I Don’t Believe YouYou’re an angry trans-sexual who has stated that you “hate” HRC and its president, and who has flung insults at anyone who disagrees with you. You’re not credible.
As a note, current standards for black tiemeans such things, unless it specifically says formal black tie.
Since “Black tie” is a colloquilaism for current fashion of formal dress, it subsumes the inclusion of gowns for women (some of whom wore pantsuits gasp).
So this particular comment is sorta, well…
um…
err…
… out of touch with current thinking.
IncorrectI am a transsexual who is sometimes called angry.
I’m also a Sociologist who can document my presence for three weeks in DC lobbying.
Your lack of belief, however, has nothing to do with my credibility in general, merely your personal sense of how valid you want to take me.
The priority of the HRC is marriage. That’s not only commonly known and understood, but explicitly stated several times throughout the year at HRC events.
I could care less if you, personally, believe me — I know that a reasonably erudite person has the capability of researching it for themselves.
Indeed, if anyone was angry here, I would presume it to be you. Most folks here know I’m laughing my ass off.
wow. Twice.Ya know, it takes a couple moments to work, so give it time — be patient…