“The Speech” that the President is going to deliver at the Human Rights Campaign’s annual dinner in Washington, D.C. is generating a lot of speculation and calls for certain actions to be taken. Only folks privy to what he’s going to say know whether or not it’s going to be a…
1) “feel good and wait for your rights” speech;
2) “isn’t passing Hate Crimes wonderful, that is your bone, people” speech; or
3) “I’m dropping a bomb and going to get behind ___ as a priority” speech.
Many people have weighed in in one manner or another, but I thought I’d kick off with this reaction by Barney Frank about the march, where the folks who don’t have dinner tickets will gather on Sunday (he was on Mike Signorile’s show yesterday).:
>Barney Frank believes the march this weekend and rally on the mall are “useless” and don’t put pressure on the White House. “I literally don’t understand how this will do anything,” he said. “People are kidding themselves. I don’t want people patting themselves on the back for doing something that is useless.” Besides, he says, “Barack Obama does not need pressure.” He says we should model ourselves as lobbyists on “the National Rifle Association.” He says people should not come to Washington and should stay home and lobby their members of Congress. “Nobody in Congress even knows they’re there, he says, and he is not attending the March: He is going to California to raise money for himself and other Democrats.
Don’t put pressure on the WH? Isn’t the President the one who said to hold him accountable? Hmmm. Click over to hear his comments about DOMA repeal, ENDA and Hate Crimes. I’m just baffled trying to understand in what universe did he think that statement accomplished anything positive. He doesn’t have to endorse the march, but he certainly doesn’t need to denigrate people who choose to attend.
About the dinner, SLDN has just called for Obama to announce he will move with Congress on DADT repeal.
One of those patriots is Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, a Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN) active-duty client who is set to be discharged under the law. “The President told me in June, ‘We’ll get this done,’” says Fehrenbach, referring to the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell.” ”I hope to hear from him this weekend about timing-specifically when the President plans on working with Congress to reverse the law.”
Wayne Besen, in “Obama’s Big Gay Speech” said:
The Human Rights Campaign (HRC) deserves a heaping helping of praise for furnishing a primetime platform for Obama to impart his message. But, the President and HRC must realize that the stakes are even higher than the price of the steaks served in the ballroom of the black-tie affair. While no one will likely yell, “you lie” in the middle of his remarks, there will be a collective sigh if all we get is a pretty speech.…At a bare minimum, the president should vow to pass the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) by the end of the year, which would prohibit hiring and firing on the basis of sexual orientation. Currently, it is legal to fire a person if he or she is gay in the majority of states. The President should forcefully condemn the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which prohibits married gay couples from receiving federal benefits. It would be wise, as well, for Obama to use this opportunity to make a compelling case, as only he can, for scrapping the disastrous Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell policy, which humiliates gay service members and harms military readiness.
And activist David Mixner makes no bones about it either:
We must hear concrete action from the president beyond that he might sign hate crimes legislation shortly or even before the dinner. It is inconceivable to me that the hosts would allow him to attend the dinner without a solid commitment that he will oppose the hate filled initiative in Maine. That would be unacceptable. How exciting would it be at the HRC National Dinner to have the president in a timely and unequivocal way put the power of the Presidency behind our the historic and epic struggle in Maine?If he doesn’t at least invoke Maine on top of hate crimes and maybe an ambassadorship it will be extremely disappointing. People are already voting by absentee in Maine. Now is the time. The president and HRC should be clear: the LGBT community expects nothing less or else why bother attending? You can’t marry with symbolism. You need a license.
In a knock on Barney Frank’s door, David says: “For those of you upset that we are keeping the pressure on Obama before he speaks at the HRC Dinner, do you really think he is responding because of a lack of pressure?”
More below the fold.
Evan Wolfson of Freedom to Marry had these thoughts on what the President should say.
President Obama has the opportunity — and I believe the obligation — to speak in moral as well as concrete terms about non-gay people’s stake in ending the exclusion and discrimination gay people endure. President Obama should not just talk about his general support for equality, and even just specific items he is working on, but, in addition, needs to make the case as to why Americans must continue evolving in support of fairness and freedom, and why anti-gay discrimination must end.…[What he would like Obama to say] The conversation about the freedom to marry and changing attitudes continues throughout the country, with many people of good will thinking it through. We all know that marriage matters, and that love and commitment enrich our lives here on earth. Government has no business putting obstacles in the path of people seeking to care for their loved ones, gay or non-gay. And it is wrong to take away rights from any group of people. We don’t do that in America.
Ballot-measures such as Question 1 in Maine do not help families or strengthen communities; rather they undermine basic values and hurt families while helping no one. I oppose Question 1 in Maine and urge Maine’s voters to reject this discriminatory effort to strip away rights and dignity from gay and lesbian couples. Mainers should vote no, and should embrace full equality, including the freedom to marry. And as Maine goes, so goes the nation.
Andrew Sullivan, on the other hand, has extremely low expectations, given the behavior at the White House so far.
In some ways, Obama’s fealty to the big gay lobby rather than to the real gay community is testimony to why Democratic party politics remain repulsive to me. HRC has achieved nothing substantive for gay equality on a federal level in the twenty years I’ve been observing them. But they sure know how to milk donors at swanky black tie affairs. They are the Rotary Club for affluent gays, and their prime job is to explain to the gay community why it is never in the Democratic party’s interest to do anything for gay people that might actually resemble equality. Oh, yes, we’ll get a lovely Obama speech. Like that costs him anything or proves anything.There is nothing Obama can say at this self-satisfied, well-heeled Rotary Club dinner that he hasn’t said before. And the idea that simply showing up is something we should all be ecstatic over and grateful for is another sign of the low self-esteem and lack of self-respect among the leaders of that organization who did all they could to defeat Obama in the primaries last spring. I won’t be there and haven’t been there for more than a decade. It is not a forum to advance gay rights; it is a fundraising session designed to make people feel better for backing an organization incapable of passing laws supported by overwhelming majorities of the American people. Oh, and fawning over B-list Hollywood celebrities.
If Obama wants to support gay equality, he knows what to do. If Pelosi and Reid want to support gay equality, they know what to do. If HRC believes in gay equality, they also know what to do.
Richard Socarides, who served under President Clinton, notes that if the President doesn’t commit to concrete action, he’s going to lay a goose egg on Saturday.
“It’s been eleven months since the election, he has expended very little political capital for our benefit,” said Richard Socarides, a former LGBT advisor and special assistant to President Bill Clinton. “He needs to deliver on ending the military gay ban and come out for marriage equality — like Clinton did recently — if he is going to change the general perception in the gay community that this continues to be a very low priority for him now.”
***
What do I think? Well, I’m hearing background rumblings that there will be no news in this speech. Of course this could be grapevine head faking to lower expectations. Honestly, I can’t imagine the White House and the President would deliver a message at that dinner that is more of the same happy talk and nothing in hand that we’ve had all this time. Naming a gay ambassador is not news, passing hate crimes isn’t really news either. It was going to pass in this Congress anyway.
He has to raise the bar for his administration, and unfortunately that requires gravitas and willingness to use the bully pulpit during a time when he’s battling for health care reform. I just don’t see him stretching beyond his (er, Rahm’s) re-election comfort zone. I would love to be pleasantly surprised, as would those thousands marching. They will not be happy campers with an Obama goose egg.



>Barney Frank believes the march this weekend and rally on the mall are “useless” and don’t put pressure on the White House. “I literally don’t understand how this will do anything,” he said. “People are kidding themselves. I don’t want people patting themselves on the back for doing something that is useless.” Besides, he says, “Barack Obama does not need pressure.” He says we should model ourselves as lobbyists on “the National Rifle Association.” He says people should not come to Washington and should stay home and lobby their members of Congress. “Nobody in Congress even knows they’re there, he says, and he is not attending the March: He is going to California to raise money for himself and other Democrats.
62 Comments





Hey, Barney!Love ya dearly and all of that…
But when exactly is the last time you tried using your gravitas and muscle not against the GOP and teabaggers (not that I mind that, you understand), but against the White House?
Just sayin’…
It’s called “multitasking”…Something Obama claims as one of his strengths (that was one of my favorite moments of the election debates).
Geez, Barney.. The whole POINT of the march is to get attention and organize people on a local level. And many of us have already contacted our local reps. But guess what – that’s isn’t good enough!
Hell, one of my signs is going to thank PA Reps. Allyson Schwartz and Patrick Murphy for their support on GLBT issues.
Low expectationsAs long as Rahm’s in the position he is, don’t expect any envelope-pushing, particularly on LGBT issues. He’s just not interested in anything more than baby steps (at most) – he lost his willingness to push for real change years ago and has now swung well into “safe” mode. And, unfortunately, the President seems to be following his lead.
And, Barney, how do you think you raise visibility (MONEY) for lobbying efforts? Having a huge number of people in one place supporting LGBT issues increases our visibility and makes it easier to raise money. Lobbying requires lots of $$ as we’ve seen clearly from the health care debate – but we don’t have the corporations on our side like the right does in that debate, so we have to get it other ways.
Hey Wayne, what about gender ID/expression?It would have been nice if Wayne had mentioned the gender identity/expression facet of ENDA in “Obama’s Big Gay Speech.” THAT should be the “bare minimum.” Some people seem to forget that even gay people can be fired based on gender expression if a woman is too butch or a man is too feminine in affect or dress. Passing ENDA with the gender provisions is the only way that everybody will be safe.
And P.S. to those who talk of “incremental” rights: tell it to New York where SONDA passed in 2002 and GENDA is dead in the water. Too many people, myself included, have worked for decades to build an LGBT coalition to have it fractured by those believe they are more entitled than others.
Stop Pussy Footing Barney FrankStop pussy footing Barney Frank and be the supporter you have always been. Now we finally have the community rallied up and ready to go and all you want us to do is sit home and write pretty letters to Congress folk who hardly pay attention.
March for Equality America, and be sure everyone hears you.
Very low expectationsfor the (homophobic?) liar.
HRC is a bunch of self-important schmoozers and aren’t worth their collective weight in donuts. I often don’t agree with Andrew Sullivan, but boy is he right on target on this one. Obama will toss out the Hate Crimes Bill as his big accomplishment and the puppets with clap and cheer and sip their chamgaign.
I’ve been trying to think what Obama could say to make the March positive instead of angryThe HRC dinner isn’t going to generate the press the March will. Anyone know if Barney is speaking at the March?
I could give a cr*p less what Rahm does, he seems like all hype no action, on too many items already.
If I was asking a favor of Obama I think I’d ask Michelle and he go through their celebrity friends list, and kick off a campaign in Maine event with celebs manning phones doing commercials anything they can do to help. Announcing a realistic time schedule for repeal of DADT and inclusive ENDA, after having signed the hate Crimes Bill is the best we can hope for PUBLICLY. But getting help in Maine privately or with a slight nod publicly, could shift Maine in our favor.
I and many like me just don’t want to be lied to, or told to shut up and wait. Barney is coming too f*ckin close to that statement and it will really p*ss off the March if he says it.
Can’t see the forest….I remember the last March on Washington doing a lot of things. The gay community became so much more visual, which is what we needed. I know my family learned what the Rainbow Flag stood for and learned to recognize it. Take a step back people; Having the President of the United States address a gay rights organization in Washington the same weekend we are marching is HUGE!
I always heard the gay community’s biggest problem was sticking together…..hmmmmm.
Failure or Liar?“It would be wise, as well, for Obama to use this opportunity to make a compelling case, as only he can, for scrapping the disastrous Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell policy, which humiliates gay service members and harms military readiness.”
So, let’s see: If DADT is disastrous and harms military readiness, then Obama is failing in his duty as Commander in Chief if he doesn’t scrap it (which he can, with the stroke of a pen, by using a stop-loss order). Or, he’s a liar. Which is it? Liar or failure?
Get real. The moment Obama took office, he and his staff immediately had only one real goal. Get re-elected in 2012. If gays can help with that, fine. If not, that’s fine too. We simply don’t matter in any other way.
Sullivan’s Real Gay Community ™Andrew Sullivan has conjured up a “real gay community” out of imagination, wishful thinking, and Jesus dust.
Face it, Andrew. You’re ashamed of who you are and lining up with the very people who are all too willing to beat it out of you.
I’m just wonderingIf we’ll even see an American flag at anytime during the march and not just rainbow ones.
Has anyone in the GLB community noticed that the folks in Kalamazoo, MI have a fight on their hands to keep that GLBT rights law on the books?
MeowKitty’s got claws!
OMG!!!Remember the criticism of the immigration marches because they didn’t have American flags? What a great idea to show the nation that WE are also part of the nation.
I’ll be at the dinner (and the March)And I can tell you from my interactions with the other A-gays this week at Out & Equal who will also be trekking up the coast for all this, if we just get platitudes and the Hate Crimes bone, the news cycle will become the Obama goose-egg and major media attention on an angrier NEM.
(Note: the snark on the a-gays was just a bit of humor aimed at taking ownership of the term.)
HRC is not a gay rights organizationThey are an exclusive members-only country club throwing a $250 per plate party where the main entree is masturbatory pandering bullshit.
You people are delusional…FIRST OF ALL…all people trying to get him to talk about gay marriage are out of their freaking minds if they think that he will touch that subject in any real way. Aside from the fact that he has a nation to govern and other issues that he would like to pass…he has already stated on multiple occasions that he does NOT support gay marriage. The many is not going to trash any hope of getting the rest of his agenda passed by caving to the “extreme left” and supporting gay marriage. No one in the Democratic party is willing to give the next election cycle to the GOP on a platter like that.
Secondly, its facinating that hate crimes is now a blaze issue to the point that its not important if it passes. Maybe the Democrats should simply stop working on it and strip it from the defense bill since apparently the “LGBT community” does not think that its important. Remember to tell Judy Sheppard about the unimportance of hate crime legislation.
The fact is the same people that are whining now will be whining no matter what the man does because he does not have magic powers that give him the ability to have the American electorate change their opinion on LGBT issues. Given that his poll numbers are improving and that the GOP has lost traction on health care, if the activists are still angry after the speech, he should stop trying and move on. Obviously people were happier with the Bush strategy of ignoring and opnely demonizing LGBT folks. He won two terms in office with that.
All too trueHow often in the last ten years have they achieved anything of note? How often in the last ten years have actively worked AGAINST equal human rights?
Second verse, same as the first…Cue that broken record… Do you ever support ANYTHING the communities try to do? Seriously, I’m wondering…
The march is about the 14th Ammendment. It’s about Federal Equality.
That covers ENDA, DOMA, and DADT. It covers hate crime protections. It covers a HOST of isssues regarding inequality of citizens.
And not coincidently, ALL OF THOSE ISSUES are before congress right now.
The Matthew Shepard hate crimes bill was successfully tacked on to the defense bill. The anti-DADT bill was introduced by Patrick Murphy. ENDA is rattling around. It’s a domino affect, and politicians have always gone the way the wind blows.
Well, cue a mighty wind already.
His scheduleRep Frank laid out his schedule of when these LBGT bills would likely come up for a vote over six months ago. Why would he push the White House to go any faster, when it’s already ahead of the schedule he put forth?
Yep. I agree. Don’t forget HRC endorsed Lieberman,who has always been such a friend of ours, over Lamont.
Self-important schmoozers is being generous.
Screw Frank.We’d love him to be a gay leader, but gay people didn’t elect him. The voters of MA and banking money did. Like nearly all Democrats he’s more interested in placating the far right than working for the best interests of the GLBT community.
I’d remind everyone Frank never came out. He was outed. I am guessing had he never been forced from the closet, he’d still be in it.
I enjoy his bombastic antics, but have no respect for him as a GBLT leader.
clarification.did frank ask people not to put pressure on obama, or did he say that the march isn’t an effective way to put pressure on obama? i didn’t hear the interview, and the text is unclear.
The Rahm hate confuses meI get that he doesn’t prioritize gay rights, but I find it hard to believe that President Obama is being is being bullied/swayed/etc. into a strategy he ultimately doesn’t want to take by his chief of staff. That argument is a lot easier to make if the person in question is intellectually weak (ex: George Bush).
I’ve heard a lot of people say this:
And to that I respond: Bill Clinton addressed the same HRC dinner in 1997.
How far did that get us on Federal legislation in the ensuing 12 years?
(And don’t tell me “But Bush?!” because that underscores the need to pressure for MORE than nice speeches at black tie dinners. We could have a President with a (R) after his name in 38 months.)
Big accomplishment?“Obama will toss out the Hate Crimes Bill as his big accomplishment and…”
No he wont. He’ll credit others for the accomplishment, that’s what makes him so successful. Wait and watch.
You really don’t know Obama very well, do you? He’s a lot more clever than you may think.
I think they saw softening supportfrom the Religious Right to the GOP and decided it was better to pick up votes there than to maintain the votes from the GLBT community. So we got McClurkin, Warren, more money for “faith-based initiatives,” etc…
Now the GOP has lost the latino vote almost entirely AND of course, the African American vote too.
I don’t think they really care who the gay community votes for in 2012.
Those who follow politicsascribe the rise of “Blue Dog” democrats to Rham. Rham spearheaded efforts when he chaired the DCCC to target weak GOP candidates with conservative democrats who were essentially Democrats in name only.
You see the fruit of those efforts in two ways, on the one hand, Dems have strong majorities. On the other hand, Dems can’t agree on policy and cut each other off at the knee. Blue Dogs alwasy fight progressive Democrats on issues of taxes, gays, healthcare reform, they function as Republicans, but benefit from having a (D) after their name.
Many people see Rham as driven for victory with no concern for policy or eventual outcome. With regards to health care reform, many people believe Rham would celebrate a bill passing even if it didn’t offer Americans any actual help with costs or improve access. All that matters is checking “win” on his scorecard.
Anyway, that’s a Primer 101 on where Rham hate comes from. Some of it I agree with, some may or may not be true.
(FYI, his brother Ari is a Hollywood agent and is said to be the inspiration for the Jeremy Piven’s “Ari Gold” character on HBO’s Entourage.
You really are a broken record, aren’t you?Who said gay marriage is a priority?
And why is it “extreme left”? This isn’t a matter of right vs. left, it’s about civil rights. If the issues discussed here do not concern you, then what are you doing on this blog in the first place? Get a clue, you’re not going to change anyone’s mind here about “priorities”.
I don’t give a shit if he’s cleverI care if he’s going keep his campaign promises to actually lead for equality, preferably before 2016, or if he’s going to continue the pattern of the last three years of campaign and office wherein he gives the LGBT pretty speeches out one side of his mouth and spits on us from the other.
Maybe..you should read what he posted and not just attack.
But of course this is the “attack anyone who has a different opinion” thread. Marriage is not in front of Congress right now. That’s what SciFi Greek mentioned in his post. (BTW no serious DOMA bill or amendment has been introduced, that would be a court case that is now predicted at about 50% 50%)
SciFi also mentioned the hate crimes bill to point out the number of people in this thread, bashing that achievement. The passage of hate crimes is something we have waited for, for years now. Some of the posters here make it sound like it was really nothing at all.
Is the march useless?On one level–that of energizing the participants, I’d say no. But I’m sorry, Barney has a point. To whom is the message of the march being delivered? Congress? As he said, they won’t even know we’re there. The President? Do you really think this is putting pressure on him? Maybe if two or three million show up. But a hundred thousand? Two? Child’s play. Are we hoping for big media coverage? This will be barely a blip on the evening news. And if the argument is that Obama feels compelled to speak was forced by the march, why isn’t he speaking to the marchers; people who scrounged pennies to get there? Why is he speaking to the tuxes? Says a lot about where his head is, doesn’t it.
The best thing that could happen is that if Obama delivers crumbs on a plate of empty promises, that everyone at the HRC event show their displeasure. Boo? Dunno. Stand and turn their backs? Maybe. Dead silence? If they can pull it off. But I’m not holding my breath for anything other than awe from the HRC enablers.
I’m hoping they will surprise me and hook into their anger. The gays need to strike fear into the Democratic leadership. That is one thing politicians understand. Fear of closed checkbooks, fear of us sitting out the next election, or fear of actual rebellion in the streets.
Cabinet AppointmentIt is difficult for me to read Frank’s statement without remembering that several weeks ago he announced that he was interested in an appointment to Obama’s Cabinet. In order for that to happen, he has to show Obama (and Rahm) that he will put the interests of Obama above those of the GLBT community. So, unfortunately, it is in Frank’s interest to denigrate both the March and those who participate in it.
As for Obama, he is speaking with HRC in response to the March. And I doubt that he will do more than talk about the appointment of a gay ambassador and the movement of Hate Crimes legislation. (I expect this to be the same fluffy presentation that was done at the cocktail party for GLBT “leaders”, where Obama trotted out a few minor moves for the community as if they were major, knowing that the audience would not call him on his lack of commitment.)
He’s calling the march ineffectiveFrank does say that the president doesn’t need pressure, but he doesn’t ask them not to do it.
I haven’t read anyone dismissing the Hate Crimes BillThis seems just a fabrication of YOURS.
Is the Hate Crimes Bill alone going to mute the criticsm at the March…uh…hell NO!
I get the distinct impression it’s YOU who were satisfied with Cheney’s reign, and your opinion doesn’t have ANY weight in the LGBT community.
I don’t hate Rahm….I think he’s all old reputation and NO BITEMaybe once he had the balls to twist arms he seems to have lost that talent. Maybe a new ballbuster is needed this one seems toothless.
I hope the March is larger than I imagineI hope HRC doesn’t politely applaud CRUMBS.
That’smy hoping for the BEST, now we need to prepare for the WORST.
What if the March is weak, what if Obama tells us we won’t get help for our issues.
WHAT IS PLAN(S)….B, C, D,…
We need to plan for our futures. I think of LBJ telling MLK to “MAKE HIM pass Civil Rights Bills.”
that would be good advise today, how do we MAKE Obama and Democrats act on our bills?
To everyone who thinks HRC = asswipesplease take a moment to click over here. This is the WA Public Disclosure Commission’s listing of PACs involved in state ballot issues. Find HRC’s entry. Look at how much money HRC members attending the annual Pacific NW gala donated in one night to help preserve the domestic partnership law in WA. Click on the “details” link, and you’ll see the names of the champaign-sipping assholes, in descending order of contribution, who are so self-serving that they forked over a shitload of cash during the worst economic episode in our living memories.
Thank you.
You are woefully mistakenIt is not that Hate Crimes legislation is not important…it is. The lack of excitement in the GLBT community you are noticing in regard to the hate Crimes Act is not that people view it as unimportant, but rather that passing it at this point has been so long overdue that it is not a bellwether for the movement. Hate Crimes legislation protecting gays and lesbians has been discussed and fought for for over two decades. The Federal Hate Crimes Act protecting people on the basis of race was passed in the 60′s. Eleven years ago, GLBT activists had already been fighting for the extension of that law for a decade, but couldn’t get it on the radar of the homophobes in Congress. That of course all changed…or rather SHOULD have changed…11 years ago this very day when the beaten and battered body of a nearly lifeless Matthew Shepard was found. That event should have driven Congress and the Wyoming legislature to act, then and there. We should have had the Hate Crimes Act pass within a year, and yet more than a decade later, after six election cycles and 11 sessions of Congress, we may finally get that law passed as an amendment to a moving bill that can’t be sidelined. Eleven years later the Democrats are still so fucking weak that they can’t pass it as a standalone piece of legislation. And you expect us to be excited by this impotence? It is a crime that Judy Shepard has had to wait this long. As it stands Wyoming still hasn’t passed a hate crimes act either.
To put it in perspective, imagine LBJ failed in 1964 to get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and African-Americans had to wait until 1977 for Jimmy Carter to get in office before those protections were made law, even though the American peoples’ attitudes on civil rights for African-Americans had long since changed to support and attempts subsequent to the 1964 attempt had not even been brought to the Senate floor until the mid-70′s when it finally passed both chambers as an amendment to an important defense bill necessary to fighting the cold war against the Soviets, but the Democrats in Congress, despite the amendment passing both the House and Senate, chicken out about having the amendment in the final bill ironed out in conference because of a veto threat by a scandal plagued Nixon who would be bucking the widely held opinion of the American people. That is precisely what has happened withy Hate Crimes. This is not some feather Obama can stick in his cap as an accomplishment. It is an embarrassment that it has taken this long. The President and any member of Congress that tries to play this up as a ground breaking accomplishment ought to be derided, condemned, denounced and promptly primaried in the next election. Passing the Hate Crimes Act is no where near enough. We expect more. We deserve more. We’ve waited too long for more. Hate Crimes, ENDA and DADT should all be easy. On each more than 2/3 of America is on our side and have been for years. On ENDA, support for equal job opportunities for gays and lesbians has been at over 80% since Bill Clintons first months in office in early 1993.
The bar is set high for this. I personally think Obama is clinically insane if he thinks that just the hate crimes act and a gay ambassador is enough to placate the grassroot GLBT anger. Nothing he is offering is a shoot the moon sort of prospect, but that’s what he needs to come out of this looking OK. While I think it is great we will have another openly GLBT ambassador, it reeks tokenism that it was done this week. He knew Huebner was going to be picked and held it back until now to try to score political points with our community. He’s not even taking over at an embassy that require a complex relationship between the U.S. and the host nation. Atleast Michael Guest was dealing with human rights issues, missile defense shield issues, refugee issues, etc in Romania. If Obama wants to make some GLBT appointments that don’t reek of tokenism, he is going to have to do it bigger than this. For example…There are over 860 Federal Article III judges serving on the Supreme Court, Courts of Appeal and District Courts. Only one is openly gay. GLBT make up atleast 3% of the population, which be the law of averages means we should have 26 GLBT Federal judges. We have one. The judiciary would then be more capable of understanding our issues from our perspective. The fact that there are not more GLBT judges reeks of Executive discrimination unto itself, that openly GLBT people aren’t being appointed Federal judges precisely because they are GLBT. Obama could very easily fill say 7 of the current vacancies in the District Courts and Courts of Appeal with openly gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered candidates to get the number of GLBT judges up to 8, which would be 1% rounding up. That would be a moonshot, not meaningless tokenism.
But with Rahm Emmanuel running the Obama White House, the expectations are so low, they are in Hell. If they think that progress that was expected a decade prior is progress to be proud of they are sorely mistaken.
This Should Be Interesting TV For a DayPeteyPornpig asked “How do we MAKE Obama and Democrats act on our bills?”
I do not think we have a leg to stand on if we don’t begin to use more aggressive tactics; a tax revolt, or a MASS CIVIL OBEDIENCE at the march would have been nice.
Without money or civil disobedience BEHIND what we are DEMANDING (not begging), it’s just a lot of whining with no power behind it. And will we EVER get to the point where we stop spending money to purchase a chance at a civil right?
@LurleenMaybe my brain isn’t firing on all cylinders, (it’s been an exasperating day waiting since this morning for our orchids) but I believe you are saying HRC people gave generously individually even in a bad economy.
But the tone of your post made that sound questioned, that they gave a lot.
They did what they SHOULD have done for yearsHRC still hasn’t done enough, in my opinion, to rebuild the bridge it blew up over ENDA. And why should we be kissing their ass for doing what they SHOULD have been doing for years, not just in Seattle, but across the nation? The money they gained was FROM the local communities and should have GONE to local communities. But all too often, it got sucked up into the national machine and the local districts were left with nothing but holes in their wallets.
Now all of a sudden we are supposed to sing the praises of HRC (and Frank) for doing what they should have been doing? I think not.
I was thinking about this earlierand asked myself what Obama would have to do to regain my support. I mean, hate crimes WOO-HOO, but he didn’t really work for it, he’s just gonna sign it. What would Obama, the man, the president, have to do and/or say to make me, a queer, support him again.
I really don’t know. I think my expectations are so low right now that even full-on, hard-core support from him and his entire Administration would still get an eye-roll and cold shoulder.
I totally agree with this, Monicaabout the American flag.
The one thing that gay communitiesand the CBC have in common…they loathe Rahm Emmanuel.
orchids are like that, aren’t they?they always keep a person waiting…
sorry for my lack of clarity. i was trying to point out that when people poo poo the hrc people who go to these expensive parties, they’re being terribly short-sighted and sometimes downright hateful in what they say. i think the upper-level hrc decision makers have made some terrible decisions in the past, and i don’t see a problem with criticizing them for it. but i do see a huge problem with transferring that anger to hrc members, who after all usually work and contribute at a local or regional level. i also understand the frustration people feel that obama has chosen to talk to the hrc party and not the the rank and file (so far as we know). but that is obama’s choice to play class favorites, and is not fault of the people who already had plans to go to the hrc party. i find it disturbing when we transfer our legitimate anger with a few individuals to entire groups of people nobody here can even name or knows a thing about.
full disclosure: i’ve never been to an hrc gala. my report of one last week was written from an interview with attendees. i might be able to afford going to one at this point in my life, but that absolutely wasn’t the case for my first 40 years and you wouldn’t catch me dead in a gown anyway. in other words, i’m not defending hrc party peeps because i am one of them. i’m defending them because it really turns my stomach to read the vitriol we sometimes turn on our own.
Coming from you, I consider “you people” an insultI do agree with you about marriage, the President needs to keep his damn mouth closed on that. I don’t want the Pres to say anything about Maine.
Other than that, have a cup up Sully’s special brew of shut the fuck up.
Which is being just as irrational……as the teabaggers. The gay blogosphere has largely backed itself into a corner; no progress will ever be enough; every speech is now “just a speech,” every action “just a token.”
The real problem here is that some very loud voices have been saying completely unsupportable things about Obama being a homophobe and now, as some things approach fruition, those voices are incapable of moderating their tone.
It’s about the long haul, people. Obama is not God, people, and he’s not the God that failed. He’s the president, and hardly a perfect one, but a lot better than any viable alternative.
Sure, keep the pressure on. But making Obama out to be our enemy is a mistake.
If he actually IS planning to talkabout Maine,we all better duck and cover. He “came out against” Prop 8. We all know how well that turned out. I’m guessing that anything he says about marriage will be worse than useless.
A few things I appreciate about SciFiGeek’s comments:He (I believe he’s said he’s a he) states his case clearly with a minimum of hysteria; he doesn’t engage in ad hominem arguments, for the most part; he doesn’t tell other posters to “shut the fuck up.”
I agreeThose bloggers who shout loudest don’t do or give anything. I think the HRC attracted a President but tradition holds that no President ever attends a march. Also, the march was formed by it’s organizers to correspond with the HRC dinner held every year at the same time. Barney Frank said that President Obama planned to speak way before the march was put together. Signorile says no, the march was the engine in back of his speaking. Who is lying ? The media is not reporting the march. Even Wayne Besen didn’t mention it on O’Reilly last night. He said their would be protests outside the HRC dinner. O’Reilly said, “Gays against Gays”.
Orchid updateWell finally around 5 pm were able to speak to a human being about the so-called overnight delivery, it is not being delivered til tomorrow….OY!
That tied up our entire day for nothing, just got back from shopping for ammenities for restrooms, another chore we weren’t responsible for, that got dumped on us yesterday. I wish it was already SUNDAY and this wedding was over.
wrongFrank was already out when the Gobie scandal surfaced. He came out in an interview with the Boston Globe, and the Gobie thing came to light well after that.
Calling people delusional isn’t a hysterical ad hominem attack?He starts of his post by saying “you people are delusional”.
What kind of response do you think that is going to provoke?
Frank is a WH lapdog …enuf said on that..and I got my 68 y/o Mom to come out to the Equality March with my husband and I this weekend. WooHoo! She will be with the PFLAG folks.
My point: ALL OF THAT is under the 14th ammendment for federal benefits/treatmentAnd for the record, SciFiGeek was hating/insulting first. On every thread ze comments on.
As if…I’m overly concerned wtih what you consider an insult after your little “STFU” remark. How very civilized of you to suggest that someone who disagrees with your position keep quiet. Because, you know, that line of thinking has been so successful. You can tell me to keep quiet all you want. But you cannot escape the fact that at the end of the day I will be the one who ends up right.
See, I’m enough of a realist to know what successful politicans realistically will and will not do. Thus I take into account the reasoning for their actions and the number of issues that must be balanced if anything is to really get done. Anyone who thought that the Democrats were going to rush head long into LGBT rights was clearly delusional. The Democrats, like all politicians, want to get reelected. They know that they cannot get elected with just the LGBT vote and will in fact lose a significant portion of the vote if they push too hard or too publically.
Smart LGBT folks acknowledge this simple reality and recognize that their cause is not served by having politicians take actions that make them unelectable. Martyrs will not help the case of LGBT rights, but that is what many here are demanding. If you want a revolution, fine, get the American people (or more3 precisely people most likely to vote) to loudly and publically get behind you so that the politicians know that they have nothing to lose by showing support. If you are unable or unwilling to to the work to the the VOTERS behind you, then you will have to settle for incremental evolution.
While I Don’t agree with how SciFiGeek titled his post, I understand the sentiment behind it. If you don’t understand, read the posts time stamped before he posted and the original article.
Too many in our community have entered this delusional state. These “delusion” people first looked to Obama as a magical god like being; a messiah who would give us not only our rights, but bake cookies for us. (mmmmm…fresh baked cookies do sound good, but anyway).
Obama didn’t cure our problems within his first year, not a big surprise to those of us who have been doing this for years.
These people complain and scream about Obama….but look here is a March on Washington! That will make give us our rights. Like Obama or a Senator will wave a wand and PUFF!!! Equal Right for everyone!!!!! And a free puppy!!!!!!
Do you not see why he may have been a little feed up with the discussion? Its like watching a person who does not know how a door works, running into the door and smashing his/her head…..and than get up and run at the door again.
AlsoI’m not really that thrilled about ENDA. It might get passed, but its a toothless bill. Take a look at it some time.
If it passes our community will be happy and not understand what a weak and ineffective bill it really is. Than it will twice as hard to change it (or get community support behind an effort to change it)
Exemptions for small businesses?????
This same compromise was offered to those in Kalamazoo as a way to pass our non-discrimination bill. And it was rejected, because nearly 82% of employers in Kalamazoo are “small businesses.” That would mean only 18% of the LGBT community would be protected. And most of the larger companies already have non-discrimination policies in place.
To this pointMost employers do indeed fall under the 15 employee exemption point — a sore spot for me as well, among many surrounding ENDA.
However, that’s a count of employers, and those “bigger” companies have a greater financial and social impact, since about two thirds of those small business folks come out of them.
I’m biased, though — I’m a habitual small business gal, lol. Too stubborn to really be anything else.
It does, however, need to pass, and it is far more critical on the T side than people may realize.
Those larger companies? Most of them do not have policies in place — only the largest of the large (a firm with 30 employees often has few to none policies) so that’s not only misleading, but inaccurate.
And they are a very critical segment that can change lives and, ultimately, feed more revenue into the process of effecting change — transfolk are incredibly unemployed, and that lack of financial power affects their ability to do things to help affect change.
The most recent CEI lists 46 companies that are “best places to work” for transsexuals. You can see the list here: http://www.dyssonance.com/?p=836
That’s it. 46. Out of 100. There are 70 that provide a specific trans related benefit that shouldn’t already be covered by typical insurance. And most of them are law firms or technology related businesses.
So no, when it comes to LGBT stuff, as a whole, of the large companies out there, very few are truly worth dealing with.
I can’t speak to Kalamazoo anymore than you can speak to Phoenix, but to say that it has n teeth isn’t really all that accurate, nor is implying that its value is less merely because the value to one segment is lesser or greater.
It is an essential bill for all of us, and while it absolutely doesn’t do enough and it doesn’t do the good stuff, it means a tremendously greater amount than people often realize.
I have to disagreeIt’s not delusional to listen to a person who promises to be the end all and be all “fierce advocate” and then expect him to live up to that.
Especially when every time he’s questioned on such, he waffles and surrenders that fierce part.
He has four years, absolutely. But only the first two of them are going to be unmarred by election based bias — so really, he has this year, and then two years from now to actually have a chance to accomplish anything.
And that’s assuming they retain the balance of control as is had now.
So no, it is not unreasonable, nor is it delusional, to expect him to do somehting now, in this moment, even if that is only to stand there and make a clear cut timeline and outline specific objectives that he does not waiver on.
Yes, the President is not the one who affects the change — but if the President is speaking at them, and they are joined by what dear old Frank is saying by citizen lobbying, then yeah, they will listen, and we have a shot.
But working to elect a person who preserves the status quo is disappointing, and its delusional to expect people to accept that quietly.
As for hate crimes, it still has tremendous value — for the data collection policies alone if nothing else.
Those were individuals and local, correct?Local chapters are often much more responsive ad involved than the national org is — and the big issue is with the national org, which has, point blank, sold out transfolk twice within the last 8 years and then denied it despite evidence.
Yes, they support marriage — and they sent 10K themselves, and 10 people from outside the state sent in under them.
They are ignoring, however, the wider movement and the grass roots issues in favor of marriage.
Well yes many of the large companiesare not yet as “T” friendly as they are to the LGB portions of community.
My debate is what is real change? Is it better to have bills that make us feel good and show a little support for our community? Or should we be working for a real bill, one that offers all of those things and actually protects people from being fired?
What is better for our community?
In a way I see it as a lesser form of incremental ism. Do you remember the last time ENDA came up and the transgender community was left in the cold and were told that we would get around to protecting them later, it was more important that it passed (as a symbol)? (I’m sure you do, since I remember you mentioning it a number of times). Well now we are saying, “well for now all you small company employees are not protected, but we will get to you later, its more important this passes because its a symbol of support.” Not the same but really close.
I’m not a fan of trickle down equality.
And most of our larger “companies” in Kalamazoo are a college, a University, community college, Stryker (as in Arcus, John Stryker), etc….etc. All of which have policies already in place. I was talking about my own town and not the country as a whole.
So should I demand real protections for everyone (even those who work in small businesses) or are you telling me to shut up as is implied.