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We had a busy thread yesterday about this story that expanded into an interesting discussion about the general sentiment behind Morehouse College administrative assistant Sandra Bradley’s email — the frustration, even desperation of some black women to find a marriageable black man. Some saw the homophobia in the email, some didn’t:
“I can’t believe this wedding. It’s 2 men. They don’t smile in a lot of pictures and they look like a few brothers I’ve seen in the streets looking STRAGHT. Black women can’t get a break, either our men want another man, a white woman (or other nationality that’s light with straight hair), they are locked up in jail or have a “use to be” fatal disease. I’m beginning to believe Eve was a black woman and we Black women are paying for all the world’s sins through her actions (eating the apple).”
IMHO it’s there — along with stabs at white women, the bias in the criminal justice system, and men on the DL about their HIV status. Nevertheless, with that laundry list plus the level of bitterness quite apparent, the discussion among Blenders in the thread was interesting.
The news that someone at Morehouse got a pink slip (it’s not specified that it is Bradley) for the bias in the email (and for using work email to spread it) is not terribly surprising given the uproar the email generated. The release from Morehouse:
The views expressed in the e-mail entitled, ‘The WTD of the Week,’ (September 28, 2009) were the personal views of one individual and do not reflect the values or policies of Morehouse College. Morehouse College has a no-tolerance position on discrimination, including discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, and the College has taken great strides toward building a diverse and tolerant community. After investigating the matter, the College has disciplined the persons involved in the incident, and one of the implicated employees is no longer with the College. In addition, the College has reminded its staff that the Morehouse e-mail system is College property, should be safeguarded as any other College property, and that e-mails that are discriminatory, inflammatory, or derogatory to any group are prohibited at the College.”
And this comment from one person who received the email.
Vanessa Crites, who does not work at Morehouse, received the email from her partner, who works for Fulton County, and said she was shocked by the comments.“I almost started to cry. I almost could not believe what I was looking at, and I thought that Dr. Franklin needed to know,” Crites said. “I think she covered all biases, she’s discriminating against gay black men, she’s discriminating against white women, she’s discriminating against people with HIV.”
While this email focuses on the male couple whose photos were downloaded from Facebook and distributed with this email, it’s clear from the missive that overall bitterness about the state of the dating pool of black men is much more prominent, and little discussed in the coverage of the story in the LGBT blogosphere, which is odd because the content in this email does connect to the issue of homophobia in the black community at its base level.
More below the fold.Blender Kevinchi hit the nail on the head in the comments yesterday (several times, actually). Piecing together for context:
If you plan on reaching out to the black community, this is an attitude among black women that you will run up against. Don’t get me wrong, I am not blaming the white gay community for the problem/perception (although there are many black women that do “the white women and the white men are taking our men”. That is a perception (no matter how irrational) that will have to be dealt with.Remember, black women also vote in greater numbers than black men…
And there’s this…
Black women also go to church more than black men too.
Trust me, thoughts about this in the black community (even about homophobia itself) are far from monolithic.
And Kevinchi also noted that some in the white gay community were quick to spew vitriol at the black community generally, and black women specifically, when the Prop 8 exit polls come out. This story, emerging when we’re not in the heat of demonstrations re: Prop 8, gives us a chance to examine the intersection of race, sexual orientation, culture and religion in a less charged way. In order to have a sane conversation we have to take the time to do it when we’re not tossing barbs — but it’s challenging to get people interested in analyzing the subtext. I’m glad Blenders took up the discussion to enlighten one another and challenge assumptions — and dig a bit deeper than the controversy of the email and general reporting about the homophobia rather than the why is it manifesting itself in this way. That’s actually provides more interesting and relevant discussion since we know anti-gay digital flotsam circulates all the time.
I love this take by Toddy English:
Chile, I don’t know WHERE to begin so I’m going to begin from the beginning! Alright, to any straight woman reading (particularly black straight women) I’m going to give it to you REAL, right NOW…1.) Gay men are NOT your enemy – Honey, we are NOT in competition withyou for men, case closed. End of story. We aren’t. My competition is OTHER gay men looking to pair up with other gay men. I don’t dress to impress and try and bait straight men. You wanna know WHY? Because if a man is truly heterosexual all I’m going to get is, “Y’know I’m straight, right?” There is nothing more fruitless than pursuing someone who does not want you…Which is what’s pathetic about women saying they can’t get a man because all of them are gay. Ladies, if your man wants another man then he NEVER wanted you in the first place. It is that simple. No matter how pretty you are it won’t matter because you DON’T have a penis.
So please stop blaming me for all of your ills…
Instead try getting your own man and stop worrying about two dudes getting married. Be fortunate that these brothas are on the UP and UP and not choosing to marry one of ya’ll to use as a smoke screen. You bitch and whine about the DL and now you’re complaining about two openly gay men making their union official. Which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
2.) No one is the “woman” in the relationship – Stop asking that stupid, “Which one is the man and which is the woman” mess. NEITHER is a woman because they are both MEN. It’s like owning a dog and a cat. You don’t have to ask which is a dog and which is cat. One is a dog and one is a damn cat
More below the fold.
What is truly homophobic and deserves scrutiny are the bigoted cowards hiding behind Internet anonymity at the black gossip site Bossip, which has a post with a photo of the happy couple, Michael Cole Smith and Jamil Smith Cole, entitled “What In The Hell Is Wrong With These Pictures.” It’s a nearly 500-comment thread of the most vile anti-gay sh*t. I must add that we have some serious allies in that thread as well, calling out Bossip and the homophobes in the thread out for their bigotry, which is refreshing to see. I’m not surprised that the ‘phobes are being beaten back — Bossip has to know a hefty number of eyeballs on that page are from TEH GAYZ, lol. They need to cut that sh*t out. And a lot readers told them to.
lush
this website is the biggest bullshit i’ve ever read. All of you are hypocrites. You cry about being persecuted, but when you promote it.. it’s disgusting. you should ll be ashamed.Tara
Bossip, whyyyyyyyyyyyy?!?!?! I was on your side earlier today when you all posted about the G-Unit Rapper and his foolish comment. Leave this married/union couple alone; they will enjoy their lives together. This may be myself and my future wife one day. You have lost “positive” points with me, Bossip; I guess I will go back to laughing at you all, Bossip. One thing I will say is I do not like the outfits, they’re overdone. It reminds me of prom outfits instead wedding outfits. Anyways I hope this married/union couple will live their lives together with support, care, and love. The end.thepianist
And by the way, I find it hard to believe that this post was put up in such a derogatory fashion by the staff. I thought sites were suppose to be neutral on issues. I would think this would make BOSSIP eligible to be included on the list of hate sites right next to the white hate sites.nancyinvegas
To Ms. Tara Smith:
I concur with you and Ann. the homophobic garbage that has been spewing on the website is just shameful. Being judgmental about someone you don’t know and putting down what seems to be their genuine love for each other is just sad.
I hope Jamal and Michael have a very happly life together. I’m sure it will be better than some “straight” marriages (that don’t last very long these days).Millz
First of all, I’m surprised you found this worthy of being posted. This seems like just a random union of two black men. Is your homophobia that strong that the minute you saw these you found it more than appropriate to post these with such hateful language like “What in the hell is wrong with these pictures?” and “flaming fellas”. This just reminds me of why I don’t ever visit this site. P.S. The wedding looked great. What in the hell is wrong with this sitewilson
WHAT THE BLANK EVER BOSSIP! LET THESE PEOPLE BE HAPPY AND IT FROM SOME OF THE OTHER PHOTO I SAW IT WAS BEAUTIFUL AND VERY TASTEFUL BETTER THAN SOME OF THE STRAIGHT ONE IV’E SEEN…GIVE ME A BREAK STOP HATINGdayg715
whatever. after that lamar and khloe hot mess of a fiasco, straight people can’t say ONE GODDAMN WORD about gay people getting married. at least we know for a fact that they’re not media whores trying to get paid. God bless these two. fuck straight people and their bullshit judgmentMiss Kesha86
Whatever. If they love each other, then good for them. Funny how people rag on these guys yet are okay with folks getting married solely for fame and money (cough, Khloe and Lamar, cough) lolB’More
you got the wrong title on the wrong post, bossip. “what in the hell is wrong with these pictures” belongs at the top of the lamar and khloe post.rida
Bossip stop the homophobia, there are people who are killed because they’re gay. Please stop making fun, insulting people by using the term “debauchery”. Two people who love each other & who wish to marry is called making a commitment.. Move up to the 21st Century. I think Bossip should be reported to GLAAD.LA REINE
LMAO @ all the people saying its an abomination and how they will have to answer to god. If you all are so holy why the FUCK are you on a gossip site? Oh I forgot thats all you hypocrites do in church on Sundays. GOSSIP about everyone in the church. SMH…wow
Seriously, I’ve seen straight weddings 10 times more tacky than this – i.e. the ghetto fab one with the entire wedding party (including bride and groom) wearing graffiti airbrushed designs of their homeboy down the street. Its amazing to me that in 2009 people are STILL so damn judgemental and homophobic. These two PEOPLE are in LOVE and celebrating that. They clearly have a great support system and I applaud them for making it to this point. And you know being in the black “community” their hurdles have been that much higher getting to their special day. Bravo to them, and I wish them a long and happy life together.All you out there that wanna hate on them should look at pictures of your own wedding…. you either don’t have any or yours was probably no where near as fly has theirs – you know you are LOVING the jewels on the cake
So the next time your mind snaps into the “most blacks are homophobic” mode (again, how is any “race” monolithic, for god’s sake?), point back to religiosity and education first.
Also, understand that taking time to peek into the world of the Sandra Bradleys in the world helps to see why and where some of the bile comes from — not to mitigate it, mind you — but to help explain it and discuss it, which is something we have to learn how to work with and communicate about in order to build bridges of understanding on both sides. It’s not as if discussing it will solve the problem of the shortage of marriage-worthy available black men for Bradley from her POV (as if we could), but I believe that you can’t even begin a dialogue if you don’t take opportunities like this to discuss some undiscussables when the stove isn’t hot.
18 Comments
my takeI don’t really feel the email is outright homophobic, but she shouldn’t have been using her work email for this purpose. She ended up causing the university controversy, which we all know they don’t like. Which is probably what led to her termination.
I’m not 100% sure where I stand on that punishment. My gut tells me she didn’t deserve such a harsh outcome.
I’m kinda sad that by the end of the email, even though she takes a stab at white women and gay black men… she blames herself.
The whole email seems to blame the wrong people.. it’s not the fault of black women, white women or out gay black men.
Besides, Black Lesbians even the scoreby courageously and generously donating whatever men they would have paired with to the potential pool of men for black, straight women.
Someone ought to be thanking Pam Spaulding!
my experiencehaving canvassed in the “black” community and interacted in the black community, my view is different than some others in the LGBT rights movement. Let’s call it the dance of stupidity.
1. The “black” community is not inherently homophobic.
2. Those who have negative opinions receive a lot of their information about the LGBT community from negative religious sources (and others).
3. The black community votes against us in elections.
4. The LGBT activist community says “oh, well the black community is religious and homophobic, lets not waste more of our time in those communities.”
5. We don’t develop a real plan to speak to that community and pay lip service to reaching out.
6. The “black community” does not hear our side* and still only receives information from one side.
7. The “black community” votes against us……repeat….and repeat….
*When we take the time and energy to share our stories and our arguments the votes in the black community break down exactly like they do in the general community. We don’t win everyone, but we do reduce the opposition’s votes a great deal.
Too Many Themes and My Head is Spinning“I can’t believe this wedding. It’s 2 men.”
Yep. Welcome to the 21st century, honey. Two men (or two women) marry today, so deal.
“They don’t smile in a lot of pictures and they look like a few brothers I’ve seen in the streets looking STRAGHT.”
So you diss them because they’re not grinning fools? What is “looking straight?” You mean trying to pass? Many people say I “look straight.” I can’t help how I look. Maybe I need to wear lipstick and a pink scarf when I go to the Mall to let everyone know I’m gay? Would this be more acceptable?
“Black women can’t get a break, either our men want another man, a white woman (or other nationality that’s light with straight hair), they are locked up in jail or have a “use to be” fatal disease.”
There’s no question our prisons incarcerate a far more disproportional number of black and Hispanic men. Look at the faces of the men on death row at Huntsville, TX. But the AIDS-phobic crack is pretty damned offensive and ignorant. It’s the white, gay male community who was initially decimated by the first wave of HIV in the early 1980′s. Yes, the face of new infection has changed but it also now includes teenagers and women of color.
thank you MattkazooIt’s amazing how the rinse-repeat cycle continues, or perhaps it’s more like a reboot or Groundhog Day, since LGBT activists who go straight to the entire black community is homophobic never get around to a plan and then during the next dustup, act shocked and then say we need a plan, then never get to a plan. It would be comical if it weren’t so tragic.
I had to put my two cents in about this situation on my blog
http://thenextwritething.com/2…
what jumped out at me……was the email writer’s apparent dismissal of all non-black men as potential mates. i can’t blame any minority person for wanting to pair with “one of their own”, but still.
Black women and interracial datingAgain, it depends on the black woman.
I see a lot of interracial paring regarding black women but then I have lived on Chicago’s North Side (or north of Chicago, even) for a long time. As SciFi Geek says, is’t a different world from the South Side or the Near West Side.
Plus…after she broke up from my stepdad, my Mom dated interacially at times (with her 2 knuckleheaded sons in tow occasionally).
How can I say this without sounding sexist? Maybe I can’t…
In my observations, it’s not the color of one’s skin, per se, that seems to make black women unattractive to other races at times. Rather it’s the non-European body types?
i’ll take it a step further and call itflat out racism. “our” LGBT orgs too often are concerned with associating with the “right” people, more than working to improve the lives of regular gay people of all ‘races.’ and income classes. but an honest review of the efforts by most of the major, national LGBT orgs leads to painful, little discussed conclusions. i will say that i was surprised to read on another gay blog the degree of forgiveness and compassion for this ignorant woman, on the part of a lot of gay men (can’t say i know their races but let me assume for a minute a lot of them are white). so that whole “we’re not a monolithic community” comment can be also applied to the LGBT world and our attitudes on race and tolerance. but on the whole i believe that there is a real problem with racism in the gay community, much of our leadership, and that it’s not often enough discussed. the fact that there is little effective outreach to the places where lots of black people vote against LGBT interests is unfortunately proof of that, to the point of ‘cutting off the nose to spite the face.’
turning things around for a secondthere’s an interesting contrast to be made. let’s take the group of fundie white republican married men in the closet and their wives. the dominant narrative is Stand By Your Man. for all the recent outings and examples of white republican closet case guys, i don’t hear much about how “white gay men are stealing our Manly Xtian Heroes and making them gaiiiii!” but as a narrative for embittered and homophobic black het women, no one is claiming this email is something new or unknown. the black women who do the most complaining about this sort of thing are usually fundies, fed a steady diet of this narrative by their church leaders. i dunno what this means beyond the idea that gay sex is a more popular topic for black preachers than white ones.
heh, y’all have to try being mixed race and gay sometime. it’s always been fun for me. i’m only half sarcastic; mostly i’ve been able to date across races. but gosh i did get tired of the very heavy self-segregating that took place in the urban gay communities in which i socialized.
nationally, yesbut locally, it all depends.
I remember (just for an example) that Rick Garcia of Equality Illinois was one of the first to laud Jeremiah Wright when that controversey was brewing and it was being falsely reported that he was simply another black anit-gay preacher.
That’s not to say that there isn’t racism in the white gay community in Chicago but (at least in Chicago) it’s pretty hard to ignore the black community when 35% of the city is black.
Now our national orgs…well, it would be nice, for example, if they made a statement on the HCR debate, for example (and both Chicago gay papers have done extensive coverage of the HCR debate). It’s like HRC and (to a ertain extent) NGLTF are in their own little gay bubble sometimes.
Ah, well no Olympics for Chicagoeliminated in the first round!
just to be clear, i’m not talking about what might make black women attractive to others beyond their own personality. i’m commenting in the opposite direction – that the black woman who wrote that email apparently finds non-black men patently unsuitable. i think there may be a huge chunk of racism in there that is being ignored. if you’ve got a fetish for a certain body characteristic or want the understanding of someone from your own subculture, no problem. but considering the clear bias to other groups in the rest of her email, i’m wondering why she’s not also being questioned from this angle.
You are right on with thisand, WE as LGBT organizers could observe a lot by watchin’ as Yogi Berra once said.
The feminist movement has not been very successful in bridging between blacks and whites, but the environmental movement has had some big wins.
I believe that is because the mostly-white folks for whom air and water quality are main issues are less entitled in their attitudes than the mostly-white folks whose main concern is LGBT rights.
Specifically, how many people have heard a white gay man who can’t get a marriage license compare himself to Rosa Parks? I know I have, many times.
That attitude extends to the false belief that folks who have been victims of discrimination should understand. It’s an entitlement to be supported without having to make the connections overt and ask for help in an appropriate way.
The demand ‘you ought to be with us’ isn’t often couched in terms of ‘and here’s why’. That’s why I thought this email was a great teachable moment:
You bitch and whine about the DL and now you’re complaining about two openly gay men making their union official. Which is it?
Exactly. Black straight women who have as a group suffered more from institutionalized homophobia than white women as a group–it’s in your own best interests to want GAY men to marry each other, not you! But it has to be pitched in a way that explains why this is better for the community and better for our kids, not in a way that implies GLBT people have a right to support.
(Disclosure: I got some experience organizing in majority-minority districts in Oakland on behalf of environmental justice. Telling folks to hug a tree=fail. Pointing out that black children are dying from asthma at rates that should be the lead story on the news=win.)
Bingo!
Deja vu all over againSome of you may remember a nasty little anti-gay rant last year disguised as an opinion piece written by the head of Human Resources for the University of Toledo here in Ohio for the Toledo City Paper.
Crystal Dixon fired off her rant, thinking no one would find out her position with the university, and was fired for it. I know that if I was applying for a job at UT and knew this bigot was going to be the final decision-maker, I wouldn’t apply for a job sweeping and cleaning her office!
She promptly became a darling of the reicht, because she used her religious faith as the reason for her bigotry and played the usual “I can’t hide my race but they can hide their sexuality” card.
As far as I know her lawsuit against the school’s still in the system, and by the time it gets heard, hopefully the courts here will laugh her out of the courtroom.
From last yearhttp://www.pamshouseblend.com/…
If she needs a husband, she can get a battery operated oneand she can even get one that’s in her melanin-content of choice. Hell, she can even buy a husband that runs on D cell batteries. Lord, I just hope she buys one soon- sounds as if a mambo with Mr Buzzy might improve her outlook on life, black men, gay men, white and Asian women and the POZ community.