From Politico‘s Grayson: GOP wants ‘you to die’:
Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) warned Americans that “Republicans want you to die quickly” during an after-hours House floor speech Tuesday night.
His remarks, which drew angry and immediate calls for an apology from Republicans, were highlighted by a sign reading “The Republican Health Care Plan: Die Quickly.”
I’m going to call this Democratic congressmember’s commentary a House Floor version of internet trolling:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Rep. Grayson’s comments would, if made in an internet forum, would qualify as a kind of flaming:
An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site, and such a response is usually not constructive, does not clarify a discussion, and does not persuade others. Sometimes, flamers attempt to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority over other users. Other times, a flamer is simply an individual who believes he or she carries the only valid opinion. This leads him or her to personally attack those who disagree. In some cases, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they can be called “trolls”. Most often however, flamers are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject.
I want healthcare reform — especially for the underinsured and the uninsured — and I want a public option as part of that healthcare reform. I don’t see how Rep. Grayson’s comments lead us to the kind of healthcare reform — the kind with a public option — that many of us progressives want.
In my mind, it comes down to this: Rep. Grayson’s commentary doesn’t clarify discussion on healthcare reform and isn’t likely to persuade others; Rep. Grayson’s commentary does personally attack those with whom he disagrees. What was the point of the speech? In my mind, it was simply to antagonize his opponents.
The problem is that, if anything, his commentary will in the long run turn out to be destructive. This is because his commentary will turn off those in the middle — those whom progressives want to persuade to support healthcare reform that includes a public option. I would say many of us Americans are tired of Republican and Democratic sniping back and forth at each other — throwing snowballs at each other from the safety their own snowball forts.
Basically, one doesn’t change hearts and minds if one behaves like a jackass. Rep. Grayson, if he wanted to speak on the subject of healthcare reform, could have (and should have) done much better at framing the discussion — One doesn’t have to sink to one’s opponents’ jackassary to effectively counter these others’ fallacious arguments.



43 Comments



Rep Grayson should Republican-apologiseI’m sorry if YOU were offended by my remarks.
Then I’d add, the “QUICKLY” is optional, republicans wouldn’t mind if you suffer for years without medications that could control your suffering or symptoms.
(See AIDS funding cancelled in a state near you)
YupIts those damned Republicans pushing rationed care. Give me a break.
This may not have been the best way to do itbut it’s about time someone started fighting back against the republicans. Who knows, maybe this will end up encouraging someone more sensible.
In case you failed to notice Republicans want NO CHANGES to the current Healthcare systemWell except for Republican ARNOLD in CA gutting AIDS funding, or Utah also republican run (85% Mormon legislature) not accepting any new cases of AIDS patients to apply for Ryan White Funds…this is happening in SEVEN other f*ckin states.
SORRY any of you folks with AIDS who had the bad luck of getting sick when it was financially INCOVENIENT for our state.
Ain’t that rationing?
Or telling young families your kid born with congenital heart disease, or 5 weeks premature, oh that ain’t covered…pre existing condition. Or your eyecare, or mental health or dental care aren’t covered…like your eyes, mouth, and brain are somehow seperate from the rest of your body.
Maybe we do need someone saying things like this.
Playing fair has been notoriously unsuccessful on health care, not to mention LGBT rights. I wish I believed that you were right here, I used to believe that you were correct, but honestly? I just don’t believe it anymore.
–Joe
that’s what i was thinking tooif his remarks sound outrageous, then people have to admit that the “death panel” remarks the republicans are making are equally outrageous.
I Think It’s The Best WayIt’s about time a dem done something extreme like this, to make all other dems wake up and smell the coffee – because this is how republicans have been whipping the lunatics into a frenzy ever since Obama became president.
Do the republicans want the dems to whip liberals/dems into a frenzy as well? Maybe this little outburst might bring a few republicans back closer to earth, and maybe it won’t.
But he doesn’t owe republicans an apology. He CAN however flip those kooks the bird for all I care.
I couldn’t agree more
I understand this analysis in principle – but, haven’t we gotten this through our heads yet? The opponents of meaningful reforem have plenty of lobbyists but no principles – and its about time that someone in Grayson’s position, in the forum in which he did so, boiled the Republican position down to its basics just as he did.
Decorum has become repression. Consequently, I couldn’t agree more that “it’s about time someone started fighting back against the republicans.”
It’s those damned Republicans.How is providing and ensuring care for people rationing health care?
What you people understand under not-rationed health care is a system in which many doctors have all their time for a tiny fraction of society because the majority can’t afford being treated by them. One question: What is your job?
The Dems have done civility to deathWhile the Repubs have done jackassery to death and who’s winning? Not us.
I think it’s about time we give the Repubs a taste of their own medicine and then call them out for crying about it as they so often do to us.
I say Kudos to Rep. Grayson.
As if the proposed ideas were disrespectful to the elderly and the disabledThe disruptions were caused by idiots believing the fear-mongering of an industry that misappropriates the money they’re paid for lobbying.
Problem is the MSMkeeps spreading the same lies without debunking it. We need to label them as the wacko deathers and birthers they are. And let everyone we know how quacked they are.
I find your objection to be concern trollingand flaming and divisive.
We have enough problems fighting the Repubs – we don’t need to divide among ourselves.
Where have you been?Health care is ALREADY rationed. The difference is that in other countries healthcare is rationed according to need. In the US its rationed by your ability to pay.
That means that lots of people go without needed care in order for others with money to get moved to the front of the line for care they don’t necessarily need.
We need to seriously get away from this idea of rationed care and admit that the REAL reform should be about ensuring that rationing is based on need instead of wealth.
tiponeill FTW (as long as we’re keeping up the Internet theme).I’m glad Autumn is a citizen journalist, but now I’m even more glad she’s not an elected representative. What Grayson did is EXACTLY what ALL Democrats should be doing.
I wish all discourse could be elevated, but that’s not the world we live in now. For good or ill, this is what now works. Would that all Democrats actually did what works for this country for a change.
Grayson is being disingenuous, at bestThe chair of the committee that killed the public option yesterday is a DEMOCRAT, Max Baucus. Baucus himself voted against the two amendments proposing a public option, as did Kent Conrad and a number of other Democrats.
Blaming the failure of health care reform solely on the Republicans is missing the point entirely. Baucus and the rest are employed by the same corporations that own the Republicans. They will do everything in their power to prevent real reform from happening, because in the Greatest Country in the World, the function of the government is to keep the population docile consumers and thereby maximize corporate bottom lines.
It ain’t just the GOP, folks. Until we stop supporting the corporat-ocracy that is smilingly called “democracy” in this country, nothing will change.
But how do you want to end plutocracy in the US?It controlls the processes that have the power to change it.
I hear youI agree, one hundred percent. Unfortunately, the mediocre MSM is going to take this story of a man being bluntly honest and spin it as if Grayson is completely out of line, deserves to be fired, and is the worst person in congress, ever, for being so “hateful”.
We’ve had the relevant discussions on this sitemore times than I can remember.
But since you don’t say you disagree with the principal point I made, I can only assume you agree with it, right? So what would YOUR solution be?
you’re totally wrong and it’s not nearly enough–we need more of this from democratslevel-headedness and respect for the opposition has not served the democrats well at all. this sort of call for civility is only going to put the rethugs back in power.
we’re talking about top-level republicans who are masterful at spreading filth and lies about obama and the progressive agenda. they speak in soundbytes, and their words resonate with people, rile them up, and leave democrats stammering and completely on the defensive. it’s a lie that’s repeated often enough until it’s true, and they know it: “protecting families”, “pro-life”, “indoctrination”, “christian nation”, “death panels”, “terrorist sympathizer”, “birth certificate”, “support our troops”, and so on and so on. it sticks with people who are too lazy to uncover the actual perversions of the phrase being used.
republicans have offered us nothing but a shitty national image and economic ruin, but they were able to bully their way into getting what they wanted on a regular basis from the democrats who would cower at the names they were being called. why is it that republicans aren’t the ones who are being forced to explain their positions on any given subject when they have nothing to offer in the first place? their game WORKS. it’s time to shut them down and shut them up. smart democrats should follow grayson’s example far and wide.
throwing back the same accusations at your opponent can be very powerful. maybe once it’s established that two can play at that game, and it gets a little old, we can get to real dialogue.
I think that in the world of 10 second sound bytes his message was right on target.
Since we have no choice but to play in their gameI say we pack our iceballs with rocks.
While I’m thrilled, Pam, that you have so many third-graders reading your blogit appears that they still haven’t learned to think critically. You are spot on that this doesn’t not win us any more public support-in fact- it may hurt our side. Probably not- since nobody is paying attention to Grayson except hard-core CSPAN junkies, though the GOP wants to blew this up as a big story.
We are not in a closed loop of just Dems and GOPers- there are a lot of undecided and unaffiliated. They are breaking our way now after being somewhat confused in August. They have properly sorted out all the right-wing crap thrown their way; Grayson is just a distraction.
I don’t imply I have one.You do.
Compare to Rep Virginia Foxx… and Sarah Palin on Death Panels, forced abortions, taking Medicare away from seniors, etc, etc …
OK, so this is stooping to their (despicable) level. But, it may be all that will get through their thick skulls. Also, this is closer to the truth (IMHO) than the BS coming out of the Right’s noise machine. All he needs to add to his signs is a reference to being POC and/or female, and it’s pretty darned accurate (only slightly tongue-in-cheek)…
I am a DEM, but becoming more of a PRGRESSIVE q day…..but how about just JOIN us….. DOCTORS for a PUBLIC OPTION.. as our Mad as Hell group is demonstrating outside the Whitehouse today .and the Whitehouse, after seeing us, and/or hearing Dr. Youngs great speech
…have now come out with this…an Ad by DOCTORS and NURSES for a Public Option. No, I am not in the ad…but have sent $$. We do support a PUBLIC OPTION.
LOLOLOL!
LOL?So you can’t answer it either and have nothing. I’m so surprised.
*more* outrageous, even.The “death panel” claims are more outrageous than Grayson’s, simply due to the fact that Grayson’s remarks have some grounding in reality. His comments are satire — they carry the logic of his opponents through to its brutal and ridiculous conclusion. The GOP-backed “death panel” schtick is pure, batshit-insane lie-based fear-mongering for political gain.
Someone who cares about something other than re-election?Rep. Alan Grayson represents the Florida district that formerly was represented by hardcore conservative Republican Tom Feeney, that famous friend of Abramoff. It is a district drawn up by the Republican-dominated Florida state legislature to ensure Republican success, and Rep. Grayson is considered one of the most “vulnerable” Democrats in Congress to lose his bid for re-election. Republicans have targeted him for defeat, and he knows it.
Isn’t this what we want from our representatives? Don’t we want them to be concerned about results rather than re-election?
What Grayson did brought attention to the issue, it focused the media on Republican malfeasance. He has guts, something sorely lacking among Democrats involved in the healthcare debate these days, and he succeeded in doing something that all of the polite talk has failed to do: get the mainstream media talking about the 45,000 people who die every year from lack of insurance.
The study he mentioned was published two weeks ago, and I follow the issue, yet I had not heard of it until Grayson’s speech went viral today.
Oh, and after the Republicans whined for an apology, Grayson took the floor again. Today’s speech was even better. ”I’ll apologize to the dead,” he said. I’m not very savvy at this, so all I can do is hope this link will work.
This link might work if that one didn’t:
http://www.salon.com/politics/…
Kudos, Alan. Kudos.
link works, and the speech works tooHoly knockout, Batman! Who’s sorry now? He made a critical talking point, the 40,000 needless deaths due to lack of insurance. Each year. I wish that more Democrats on the Hill would be this combative.
Ka-POW!
About timeFor forty years the Republican Party has out-flanked the Democrats with fiery populist rhetoric and left them flinching and afraid of their own shadows. Those of us on the left have forgotten what it is like to have someone articulate leftist positions via this kind of sound bite, and it’s refreshing to say the least. Grayson does has a reputation as a loose cannon, but in addition to supporting the public option, he’s also deeply committed to full disclosure regarding who got our bailout money and what they did with it. It’s about time the Democratic Party stopped being the party of polite, compromising establishment wonkery and started addressing the concerns of the working and middle classes in clear, emotive language. Three cheers for Alan Grayson!
Brilliant. Nothing short of. n/t
Sorry,but the Peace Fairy isn’t going to wave her wand and the dems and republicans will magically get along. The republicans are being pushovers, if not outright lying lunatics, and they need to be shown that dems can get loud and extreme too.
They better do SOMETHING! Dems are losing support – not saying those people will go republican, but they’ll just sit out of any future elections and stop donating to dems.
Q.E.D.Which is why we need more Dems like this guy. He did a wheels-up landing on them today.
he’s on a tearLook at this on CNN, by way of Crooks & Liars. Rep. Grayson even terms the anti-health care side as “nattering nabobs.” It’s a glorious smackdown!
http://crooksandliars.com/node…
SPLAT!
“getting democrats to do something is like herding cats”The exception is when you P*SS US OFF.
Then we move in unison, and those cowardly 5 democrats on the Finance committee, if it’s the last thing I do it’ll be to fund a Progressive Primary challenger for EACH of YOU.
Cowardly F*CKING TRAITORS!
Satire, people, satirePeople, people, people… His comments were satire. Nothing more, nothing less – perfectly illustrating the double standards and hypocrisy of the Republican party.
I think you mean eitherthat the Democrats are being pushovers or that the Republicans are being “pusherovers”, right?
Three cheers for your comment!Though I would add that they also need to address the concerns of the working and middle classes in action. To be fair, they’ve done some of that.
“Decorum has become repression” — too trueespecially when the decorum is all one-sided.
Grayson remarks and signsI’d hoped that we would not see the tit for tat that has been running things in Washington keep moving the way it has. I found the comment a little humorus at first and then realized it is just more of the same out the other side of the mouth. Mr Grayson has gone to same level as he is trying to be better than. How do we go forward with health care with all the sideshows that keep popping up. This is not a case of (If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bull). Then pile on some crap to make sure you covered it all. Grow up Government.
Alan Grayson….Alan Grayson, a freshman Representative Congressmen from Florida, says the Republican health care plan is one that encourages people to “die quickly.” Republicans are mad because of what he had just said. He is implying that they don’t care about an actual reform of the health care system, just as long as insurance companies keep making money and campaign contributions. They are trying to pass a resolution that will essentially shake a finger at him. Grayson has been a bit of an oddity thus far, famed for grilling anyone and everyone at the Federal Reserve with gusto. Alan Grayson isn’t afraid of hurting anyone’s delicate little feelings to get things done the right way – that’s the kind of person who deserves payday loans or whatever into his campaign funding.