Washington’s anti-domestic partnership activists insist that “there is no legal difference between marriage and domestic partnerships” (Gary Randall, 9/14/09). They are wrong. Domestic partnerships are not equal to marriage, and here’s proof. (emphasis added)
Ukraine: Elton John Ineligible To Adopt BabyElton John won’t be able to adopt a 14-month-old HIV-positive child from Ukraine because the pop star is too old and isn’t married, the government said Monday.
Adoption and gay rights advocates expressed regret about the determination by Family, Youth and Sports Minister Yuriy Pavlenko, while a children’s charity had reservations about John’s weekend announcement that he and his male partner, David Furnish, wanted to adopt the boy.
John announced his desire after meeting the boy, named Lev, while touring an orphanage Saturday as part of an anti-AIDS charity project.
“I don’t know how we do that, but he has stolen my heart. And he has stolen David’s heart and it would be wonderful if we can have a home,” John said.
But Pavlenko told The Associated Press that the adoption will not happen because adoptive parents must be married and because the pop star is too old.
The singer is 62 and Ukrainian law requires a parent to be no more than 45 years older than an adopted child.
John and Furnish tied the knot in 2005 in one of the first legalized civil unions in Britain, but Pavlenko said Ukraine does not recognize gay unions as marriage.
Sir Elton himself labored under the illusion that his Civil Partnership with David Furnish was legally on-par with a marriage.
In December 2005, John and Furnish tied the knot in a civil partnership ceremony in Windsor, England. But, clarified the singer, “We’re not married. Let’s get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage.” …“You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships.”
So it’s not just opponents of civil equality who sometimes believe the “domestic partnerships = marriage” lie. Sometimes it is domestic partners themselves. Sometimes it is our allies. I will never forget debating our English friend and straight ally Ian over whether the Civil Partnerships instituted in 2004 by the UK were fully equal to marriage. He insisted that they were, and that to contradict him was somehow an insult to his support for equality. My counter-argument was that if Civil Partnerships weren’t meant to be separate and therefore inferior, why did Parliament go to the great effort of designing an entirely new institution by writing 55 new pages of law? Undoubtedly Parliament could have simply inserted “regardless of the sex or gender of the spouses” into existing marriage law. Ian remained unconvinced. I wonder if now he and Elton John might see things a bit differently.
If Referendum 71 is approved on Nov. 3rd, Washington State’s Registered Domestic Partnerships will provide domestic partners and their children with all the state-level protections and obligations of marriage. But only at the state level. Domestic partners will still be denied the 1,138 federal rights, responsibilities and benefits that come with civil marriage. These include earned Social Security benefits; veterans benefits; equal treatment under the tax code; and the right to sponsor non-American family members, including a spouse, for permanent residency or citizenship. And like Elton & David, Washington’s domestic partners will be considered “legal strangers” in most other states and countries. Domestic partnerships are of vital importance for Washington families, but they are not marriage.
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Related
* Washington Media Slams Referendum 71 but Misses the Truth About Domestic Partnerships




46 Comments


Depends on country reallyMy guess is even if Britain had full marriage rights, Ukraine wouldn’t have recognized it anyway. It’s a gay couple, plain and simple, to them, and they still would’ve rejected the adoption.
maybe, maybe notthe fact is they they couldn’t get far enough into the process to see if being gay was going to be a barrier because they didn’t meet the first round of fundamental criteria: married.
RightI think that particular quote by Elton was in reference to domestic law (in his case, the UK), not international law. Even if he & his partner were married I think the Ukraine could’ve found a way to keep the adoption from happening.
Now if Ukraine was in the EUthey would have to recognize a gay marriage from, say, Denmark, right? I know that’s the situation in France (they don’t have marriage equality in France but they do recognize gay marriages from other countries as marriages).
On paper, The UK actually does…Offer “full marriage rights” in the name of civil partnerships. But obviously, what was offered on paper in 2005 isn’t reality in 2009. Of course, Ukraine won’t recognize anything other than “heterosexual marriage” b/c their government is bass ackwards and homophobic. Still, this should be a wake-up call to the LGBT community in Britain that anything other than full equality is just another gimmick.
It doesn’y take a rocket surgeon or a brain scientist…to know that a domestic partnership is NOT equal to a marriage. Neither is a Civil Union or any other BS way to twist words to support LGBT Equality.
That is what is really interesting when it comes to the right wingers. You would think listening to Maggie Gallagher she would support Civil Unions/Domestic Partnerships. But she is just like the rest of the wingers, Hateful and Bigoted and anything pro-LGBT they will be against.
A while back I did some research on DPs…Here in Nevada, and it just confirmed what I’ve been saying all along that DPs and civil unions are NOT “just like marriage”. While they are a step forward for our community in places where we can’t yet have full marriage rights, it’s nonetheless separate and unequal.
Speaking of Maggie Moo and Mr. Brown…When is the Washington Post going to write a column which addresses NOMs egregious, self-righteous, religious persecution against the gay community as a balance against the fluff piece they put in the paper?
There’s no getting around the “too old” partSo, he’s really barred in two ways here.
It is sad that there are such rigid rules, because he and his partner could give a child a lot of advantages.
No, I don’t think they have toAnd don’t forget: Poland, Lithuania, Romania etc. are in the EU. There will be no directive as long as one of them is against it (before the Lisbon treaty is ratified). And they are explicitly against everything that could be used to force them into accepting gay marriage.
It was a big mistake to allow them joining the EU without putting important changes into effect.
That’s easy – both Elton and David fail the age requirement.David Furnish was born in 1962 and is over 45 years of age.
Why in the world are they trying to adopt a child from that part of the world when, I am sure, their are needy children in England? Seems to me he could do plenty of good right at home.
While you’re right, …I wouldn’t regard that as prove. It surprises me that these retarded Eastern Europeans allowed a gay men to get near a child. Gay marriage wouldn’t change anything for them.
They met the child and were movedThat’s how I understand it. They didn’t set out to adopt a child.
I hope that they can help the child find a couple who meets the requirements.
And have a lot of money.See the former Chancellor of Germany. Age is no problem if you have the money (and are a friend of Putin, in this case).
To say they couldn’t care for the child because of their age is ridiculous in my view. And I think the Ukraine would also accept money like Russia if they weren’t gay.
the word mattersa bag of rights that equate to marriage within a certain polity is nice, but without the “m” word to label it, it is meaningless beyond the borders.
yes, he would have been disqualified on that count.but he was living in a fools paradise to think his CP was equal to marriage, as the Ukrainian adoption authorities have reminded him.
Adoption by gay couples banned worldwideAs a gay adoptive parent who adopted abroad, one must hide their sexuality if gay. There is no country, including the US (I believe) who will let gay couples adopt internationally. Being gay automatically disqualifies an individual from adopting abroad. Governments go to great lengths to ensure no gayz are adoptin’ their kids.
Furthermore….I think there is a US govenment rule which bans the adoption of HIV+ children born in foreign countries.
Singles“Singles” are permitted to adopt from the Ukraine so marital status is a non-issue.
That is patently false!It has nothing to do with their relationship being called a CP in the UK instead of marriage.
Independent nation states are not required to recognize ANY marriage unless they choose to do so. These guys could have had a marriage and a ceremony conducted by the Pope, and the Ukranian government could still refuse to recognize the marriage.
If Ukranian law does not recognize SSM, it does not matter what kind of legal relationship they have in their home country.
Hell, if they traveled to the US, their relationship would not be recognized by the US government.
The privilledges couples get from marriage legally stop at their home country’s border. Whether or not anohter country recognizes the partnership is up to that government.
To clear this up…There is no worldwide ban on gay adoption. However individual nations are free to set their own policy. Unless a country consciously decided to recognize someform of SS partnership, they can restrict LGB people from adopting.
The US Federal Government does not recognize ANY same sex partnerships. Thus if marriage is a condition of adoption, then the US government would reject the attempt no matter where it originates.
Conversely, I know that the British government does recognize SS Partnerships (even from individual American states), thus adoption might be possible there.
Not according to Ukranian the authoritiesquoted in the press and by the would-be parents themselves.
Marriage…is meaningless beyond borders REGARLESS of who it is applied to. There is no international equivalent of full faith an credit. Countries are free to determine what sort of marital relationships they will and will not accept.
For instance, some states in the Mid East and Africa might legally accept a man having multiple wives. However, unless they are under diplomatic immunity, no one in North America or Europe would recognize the marriages.
SinglesI know singles, one man, and one woman, who have successfully adopted from the Ukraine as singles. It’s more difficult for a single to adopt, but it can be done.
You are not totally correct, I believe.Most countries have reciprocal treaties with other countries for the purpose of, among other things, respecting certain legal contracts solumnized in either country. Marriage is one such contract. For example, the USA has such a treaty with Canada, although it is of course currently in breach of the treaty by not recognizing married s-s couples from Canada.
Second and more importantly is the fact that John & Furnish didn’t even have a chance with the Ukranian government because their own government won’t stand behind their relationship and call it marriage. The UK sends the message with CPs that “you can discount these people’s relationships”, rather than, at the least, “we respect these people’s relationship like any other marriage and we expect you to treat them the same as you would any British married couple”.
Elton John is Britishand lives in England. US HIV rules would be irrelevant.
And by not allowing gay couples to be marriedthe UK government is exacerbating this problem.
not sure if it has any bearing here or not, butthe US gov’t does now recognize the same-sex partners of some governmental employees for the purpose of housing and benefits. see: state department.
They have no chance in either wayBecause Eastern Europe is extremly homophobic.
If they fixed one issue, there would be a new one preventing the adoption because the issue is being gay.
but….He has a primary residence in Atlanta. Isn’t there still a ban on HIV+ people entering the country?
you’re really missing my pointwhich is, that he has almost no chance anywhere because his own country doesn’t consider him married and so doesn’t ask other countries to consider him married. that is the point. domestic partnerships, civil unions and civil partnerships are not marriage even though at a local level they look a lot like it.
does he?that i didn’t know. so maybe you’re right that with this particular child he might have have additional barriers to jump. but this is beside the point that his civil partnership is worth squat outside the country that gave it to him. i want people to never fall for the ruse that civil unions/domestic partnerships/civil partnerships = marriage because at crunch time, they really don’t. and not even an a-list gay like elton john is immune to the reality of this fact.
That’s important, but this case is still different and can’t be used as proofIf it would be a country where married LGBTs would be accepted, but not LBGTs in a civil union, it would be showing the point. This case just makes clear how backwards the Ukraine still is.
A-listit actually hurts being an a-list celebrity in this case. At this point in time, it would be difficult for Elton to deny his sexuality, whereas your average American or British citizen can deny their orientation for adoption purposes and get away with it.
Not quite, LurleenArticle 211, section 3 of Ukrainian Family Code prohibits adoption by “persons of same-sex” (aka same-sex couples).
Article 212, section 9 of the same Code prohibits adoption by foreigners, who are not married (except for cases, where the child is a relative of the foreigner).
http://zakon1.rada.gov.ua/cgi-…
Marriage is in essence defined as between a man and a woman in the Ukrainian Constitution.
wrongSingles who are Ukrainian citizens are allowed to adopt. Single foreigners are not.
?When did they adopt? The law as applying to foreigners adopting has been changed on 4/10/2008.
…Well, in this case, the problem is not that Elton John is gay. The problem is that he is famous. It’s pretty hard to take a bribe and pretend like you didn’t, when someone is not only well-known to be gay AND is in the constant limelight. I mean it’s just being stupid.
my question iswhy doesn’t anyone call her out on that on TV? I mean it’s not like this is a secret.
you are also not allowed to adopt in Ukraine……if you are more than 45 years older than the person you are adopting (per the Christian Science Monitor and other sources). Also, Elton John and David Furnish would probably have been required to adopt the boy’s brother as well, unless they received a special dispensation from Ukraine’s President.
I do think Elton John is a TOTAL ASS for sucking up to George W. Bush in the way he did, sitting in Bush’s Presidential box (with David Furnish and the First Lady) to receive a Kennedy Center Award, all the while belittling U.S. gays and lesbians for not settling for civil marriage as he did in Britain. As if we had been given that option!
Sir Elton is grossly misinformed when it comes to real-world issues and real-life struggles for the LGBT community. Maybe this is a wake-up call? Probably not: unless something has changed, he’ll always be spoiled and impulsive, and I’m not sure he’d be a good parent in any event. I rather doubt it, in fact.
Whatever you call itCivil partnerships in Britain give full civil equality. Marriages in Massachusetts or wherever in the US give nothing by comparison as long as DOMA exists. Please do your research when talking about other countries. UK civil partnerships are not mere “domestic partnerships” on the US model. Yes, I would prefer to be married but, in the meantime, I’d rather have equal rights without marriage than marriage without equal rights.
oh you’re absolutely correctthat civil partnerships are like a national+state domestic partnership would be if we had them here, with all the local and national rights combined. in that way i agree that they are far superior to state-level american domestic partnerships. no question. but you still are considered to have no legal relationship in many countries because your government refuses you marriage, whereas a marriage from massachusetts is seen as a bona fide marriage in marriage equality countries. the fact is that there are shortcomings in both countries right now, and despite what you think you do not have equal rights. you just have more rights than i do.
I agree with you in principleBut you need to do more research before you dismiss civil partnerships so cavalierly. The sad fact is – the US government recognizes NO same-sex relationship at all, whatever it’s called and wherever it’s entered into. Would you like to bet when that’s going to change? Not in our lifetimes.
So I should feel second class, with full civil equality in terms of tax, inheritance, immigration, etc. with employment discrimination forbidden by law, with discrimination in provision of goods and services forbidden by law, with discrimination in adoption rights forbidden by law (Roman Catholic agencies are shutting up shop as a result, rather than comply)?
With that legal structure in place, and almost entirely uncontroversial, changing its name to “marriage” would be a small step. It will happen in the UK long before it ever happens in the US.
I know we’re on the same side, but you’re applying a US perspective and US nomenclature to things you don’t fully understand. “Domestic partnership” smacks of a public registration of commitment, well-intentioned but meaningless. UK civil partnership has a real legal meaning. And, yes of course, marriage is preferable.
Elton’s baby-shopping really isn’t relevant, except that if he wanted to adopt in the UK, discrimination against him on the grounds of his sexuality would be forbidden by law.
truetrue
If a country doesn’t want to allow a gay couple to adoptit doesn’t and wouldn’t matter if that couple is married or in a civil partnership in their home country. That is the point. Marriage or civil partnership,
”
Article 211, section 3 of Ukrainian Family Code prohibits adoption by “persons of same-sex” (aka same-sex couples).”
The UK can have marriage apply for everyone, it can have polygamous, polyandrous marriages, and if some other country chooses not to allow the adoption, the marriage still wouldn’t matter.
While countries do tend to recognise a married couple from another country, they can choose to recognise what they want to, and what they do NOT want to recognise, regardless of what the couple’s home country decides. Your example of the US and Canada actually supports this point. You say that the US is in “breach of contract”. And what is being done? What they can be done to deal with this “breach of contract”? Nothing.