Tweet
In the Pam’s House Blend piece A reader writes the Courage Campaign about a 2010 Prop 8 repeal fundraising letter, the timing of the upcoming initiative to repeal Proposition 8 has been addressed. The Courage Campaign is advocating for 2010; while others are advocating for 2012, such as the a California lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) coalition of color.
The California Marriage Equality Activists Plan Ballot Initiative Campaign met in Los Angeles last weekend, and are planning for the coming initiative to repeal Proposition 8, no matter when the initiative is taken to California voters. Sara Beth Brooks, who has previously argued that the initiative should be filed for the 2010 Election, is the point of contact for the press release about last weekend’s Los Angeles meeting .
Equality California (EQCA), which is by most LGBT Callifornians assessment the juggernaut of LGBT non-profits/civil rights organizations here, is going to announce tomorrow whether they are going to support 2010 or 2012 for an initiative drive to repeal Prop 8.
I’m concerned. As long as the that California LGBT coalition of color isn’t supporting or working towards an initiative in 2010, I know as a LGBT Californian I’m not inclined at all to support — or work towards — a campaign for a 2010 initiative to repeal Proposition 8. My perspective is that without LGBT people of color organizations onboard in a Prop 8 repeal drive, I don’t see how we successfully repeal in Prop 8; I’m not going to spend my volunteer time or contribute any money to a campaign that I don’t see as having any chance at success.
One of the mistakes I made during the 2008 Prop 8 campaign was not pointing out what I saw as wrong with how the campaign was being run when I had questions about it. Such as, it bothered me that there were no images of LGBT people in the advertizing for the Prop 8 campaign, and that it didn’t appear to be a hearts-and-minds campaign. Well, I won’t make that mistake of not speaking up a second time.
So at this point, I won’t answer to focus groups; I won’t answer to big budget or small budget campaigns; I’m going to stick to telling you what I think.
So here’s what I think: If there are no LGBT people of color organizations onboard for a Prop 8 repeal, I’ll stay on the sidelines for this election cycle. I’ll vote for the Prop 8 repeal if it actually reaches the ballot in 2010 without LGBT people of color organizations onboard, but I won’t work/volunteer for — or contribute funds to — a 2010 attempt to repeal Prop 8 without LGBT people of color organizations onboard. I just see no possibility of a win without them onboard.
55 Comments
I’m appalledHasn’t anyone been listening? If LGBT activists of all colors don’t listen to the communities where the work has to be done (religious of all colors as well as among some communities of color plus all older folks), we’ll blow this again.
Full disclosure: I’ve been inclined to wait til 2012 all along, as I think we only gain as the pro-gay culture ripens.
That’s funnyACLU SoCal GLBT Rights Project sent out a letter a couple of weeks ago. Not only did they say no to 2010 but they wouldn’t commit to 2012 or a date either…only when we can “win”.. They cited polling that nothing has changed since last November…there was no voter remorse…plus it’s harder to change someone’s vote after they voted a certain way, plus in California it’s harder to get someone to vote yes over no which a repeal would require…(unless you’re a chicken in a cage).
It’s a no go for 2010…who knows when…My neighbor voted against my equality, one of co-workers didn’t vote but has the non religious secular opinion that marriage = man woman…that’s two places I can start although it pains me there is no moving forward RIGHT NOW. Personally the pain I feel at being voted to second class status keeps me from caring if we lose again….how can it be worse than now…I’m disappointed. I was ready to go, be active (actually I did).
I think Autumn has a good point.I’d add only that the Courage Campaign’s 72 hour funding drive is an excellent reality check for those who think, like the previous poster, that hey! Let’s put on a show with the labor of expert volunteers! Instead of raising money to hire experts!
Well, speaking from experience: If you can raise $200K in four days, you can GET the experts to sell or donate their expertise. If not, you can’t afford winning help, the kind that can be fired.
You’re not suggesting a plan of action, you’re suggesting a self-fulfilling prophecy.It’s a shame things aren’t going along perfectly right now for the 2010 repeal. We’ll all have to work to change that now, won’t we, or else they’ll never go perfectly, will they?
As I understand it, the repeal is ready to be put on the ballot in 2010 and will be put on the ballot in 2010 — as it should be. The hemming and hawing has to stop.
It’s a shame some people are against the 2010 date. If 2010 is the date — and it sure looks like it’s going to be — those people will have to adjust.
What’s the alternative? Not win in 2010 because some LGBT people don’t want us to? Even if we lost in 2010 — which we won’t, because we won’t allow the self-appointed leaders to lose it for us again — how would getting our act together in 2010 hurt a second repeal attempt in 2012? It wouldn’t, obviously. This is a win-win.
Screw the people who don’t want us to fight for our rights now, the rest of us are going to do it anyway.
Promise to hold your breath until you turn blue?
(A) As I understand it, the repeal is ready to be put on the ballot in 2010″
Sorry, Your Majesty, you’re wrong, it isn’t. As the self-described “Courage Campaign” has indicated in their strange last minute fundraising appeal for $200,000, they haven’t even agreed on what it should say…all these months of pompous “tomorrow belongs to us” meetings aka circle jerks and they haven’t even “professionally” tested that…ONE MONTH away from the deadline for filing.
(B) “we won’t allow the self-appointed leaders to lose it for us again”
Uh, exactly how is your suspended in a vacuum, echo chamber tribe any less “self-appointed”? Because a few hundred out of MILLIONS of gays in California agree with each other?
(C) It’s illuminating to see many of those who denounced the 2008 campaign for not including enough POC to now say “we don’t need them” because they think you’re fools for trying to jump in the water before you know how to swim just because you think your arrogant self-righteousness will keep you afloat.
(D) You treat “win” as a synonym for “try to win.” That’s not self-fulfilling prophesy, it’s auto-analingus. Hope the campaign is creating a separate fund for chiropractery.
The Link to Donatehttps://secure.couragecampaign…
Campaign Courage sent out an e-mail today. I tried to recreate its appearance here as best I could. With only $41,967 it looks like they may even beat their goal of raising 200 k in a week. 2010 looks like it is going to happen. Although people can certainly donate to help make this happen if they want… even in the unlikely scenario that they don’t hit the goal, they can still use the money towards a 2012, 2014, or 2016 campaign.
The question is, since it looks like it is going to happen, how do we respond now?
i said this on earlier postAnd I’ll repeat it copy/paste becasue I’m working on a deadline right now…sorry, for the repeat(with minor corrections) but it speaks directly to Autumns post:
1) What exactly will the POC groups do to make the state ready for a repeal? How will we know when they have achieved their goals? I don’t understand why it is acceptable to wait for them to do something undefined merely because they (and I use that term generally) say it’s going to take longer to change hearts/minds (hate that expression).
What have any of us – POC or non-POC – done (or can we do) to change minds about LGBT citizenship? How will one year or two years or four years be enough time to make this happen? Why can’t these attempts to include be part of a 2010 repeal effort? I don’t understand what has to happen before we can procede.
I know that the next campaign has to be more inclusive – outwardly and inwardly – than No on 8 was. I know that our community has to be the same way. I don’t know that we have to solve racism before we can address Prop 8. What do POC orgs need – money? What will happen with the extra time? What progress has been made by POC groups in addressing the issue of homophobia or LGBT antipathy in their communities in the past…haven’t they been addressing LGBT matters before Prop 8?
What can I do to help this get moving? Do you want the help/participation of a middle aged white guy or is this something POC orgs have to handle within their own communities?
Sometimes it feels like hostage taking on the part of POC’s and I’d rather see what can be accomplished in a repeal effort than simply sit in the corner with the dunce cap on because the No on 8 campaign was a shitty POC-less campaign that I didn’t run, yet I am holding the bag for it.
A repeal of Prop 8 is necessary because it is an affront to equal protection under the law. Prop 8 was upheld by the CA court not because marriage is sacred, but because the majority is now officially allowed to legitimately marginalize a minority group that is under represented. Do we need to get the attention and support of POC organizations? Well, then lets talk to them about THAT and not try to sell them on marriage.
Much more than marriage was lost on election day. Much more will be gained when Prop 8 is trashed in CA and in the 29 other states where Prop 8′s haven’t been challenged.
The repeal of Prop 8 is precisely how we can work together with all coalitions to create a movement with integrity. Waiting for two years doesn’t make that happen. Acting now with the urgency of NOW is how we can learn to be united.
No more delay.
So..I guess that means that the entire LGBT population of California has to wait for permission from PoC communities (or is it specifically LGBT PoC communities) before they can fight to get equality back… because all decisions about timing, tactics and strategy need their approval first.
“Sorry, but we’d like you to sit down, shut up and just accept being treated unfairly for now, because we think it isn’t time for you to fight back yet.”
Don’t get me wrong… Future attempts to reclaim equality absolutely must reach out – early, often, and with genuine bi-directional commitment – to communities that were largely ignored during the Prop 8 campaign, including communities of color. But there is no LGBT or LGBT-supportive community in the entire state that has completely homogeneous views about the 2010 vs. 2012 question, and putting all decision-making about schedule into the hands of any small group of organizations (or rather, their leaders) is no better than what was done in the fight against Prop 8.
Bridge-building with PoC communities (which means investing in their needs too, not just asking that they invest in LGBT needs) is obviously an absolute necessity, but building the entire fight around approval from a few PoC organizations seems like the wrong solution.
Forgot a bitBTW, I should point out that there are PoC groups supporting the 2010 drive, which raises the question of exactly which PoC groups’ approvals are necessary before we’re allowed to fight for our equality.
I think it is more than a few POC organizationsthat would rather do a 2012 than a 2010 ballot initiative.
A weak area in the last campaign……was with people of color. We didn’t convice enough people of color to vote our way.
So, if this campaign is perceived to be a “white gay & lesbian campaign,” then I believe the repeal effort will fail because the campaign won’t move enough voters from voting against us to voting for us.
If the repeal Prop 8 in 2010 campaign folk can’t convince LGBT people of color organizations to sign up with the campaign, exactly how will the this initiative drive convince non-LGBT people of color to vote for marriage equality in 2010?
The repeal Prop 8 in 2010 campaign folk need to listen to the LGBT people of color organizations. Convince those organizations to get onboard, and you’ll convince me.
I don’t think being pro-2010means being anti-POC inclusion. If anything it means being pro-working on the bridge build process immediately.
2010 & 2012 & 2014 & 2016 all have their flaws and merits. But I don’t think going further down the line makes you more and more pro-POC inclusion.
Againcan we get listing of what groups would rather do a 2010 and which groups would rather do a 2012 so we can get past some of the racial scapegoating that I am beginning to see.
They’re not going it aloneCampaign Courage is not going it alone. They do have some other groups supporting as mentioned in the e-mail segment below. And yes we definitely need to add to that list. They are however taking the lead based on what the majority of people polled wanted, and I think that is something we need amidst all this chaos.
2012!I’m all for overturning Prop 8 tomorrow. But I’m very worried that EQCA and the Courage Campaign seem to be ramrodding this down the throats of the LGBT community in an effort to go for 2010 regardless of what others or organizations are saying. These two organizations were very disorganized during the initial Prop. 8 battle, and I think their actions or lack thereof in many cases allowed for defeat.
The LGBT community must organize first before we approach others regarding our rights. If we aren’t organized and confident, unified, and confident in our approach….why should others listen? And raising the amount of money required to win in this economic downturn will be extremely hard.
We have to remember that the other side, many of them being fundamentalist Christians, already have a leg up in regarding to organizing (BTW, I’m not degrading Christianity, I’m a Christian). They meet every week for church, thus have organization already established that we’ll never have.
Also, the gay community will vote for us regardless, the fundamentalist we’ll never change. It’s those that just don’t have enough information or fully understand that we need to influence. After we’ve change their hearts and minds we should then hit the ballots. This is one reason I fully support the Empowering Spirits Foundation’s positive approach.
Lets all work together, unite!
What is to say if we give the fundamentalist Christiansover 3 years time to prepare combined with a date for when they need to be prepared by, that they wont make even better use of the time, than if we keep the fight going now with a passion & with the majority polled by the Courage Campaign on our side supporting 2010?
I think most cases I’ve seen made for 2012 are far better arguments for waiting for 2014 or 2016. And some of the arguments like we need to wait until more people are on board to me just come across as all the more reason we need to be working to get them on board starting today.
Wow, what a horrible reply.Not that I know all that it said, since I stopped reading after “Sorry, your Majesty”. Talk about projecting. It’s a shame that this is how you treat people who disagree with you.
Meanwhile, everything I said holds true. It looks like it’s going to be on the ballot, if it is on the ballot it’s in everyone’s best interest to work to pass it, even if it fails in 2010, we’re better off for 2012. All of that is true.
And all the poor attempts at cleverness won’t change that. So, again, let’s all work together to make it happen the first time. And If you’re deadset against it, we’ll do it without you.
Not looking to make anybody a scapegoatI’m truly not interested in making anybody a scapegoat for anything. The premise of the original post is that there is some sort of threshold – yet to be defined in concrete terms – of PoC organization approval that has to be met before the LGBT community should go to the ballot to repeal Prop 8. I just want to hear a clear definition of what that threshold is. Frankly, there are always reasons to wait to go to the ballot and there are always disagreements between different groups (and different people within individual groups) about strategy, and I’d just like to know exactly what the rule is that’s being suggested by the original post. There were two PoC-oriented groups I know of that signed on to endorse the recent 2010 planning meeting. Were they the wrong ones, or just too small, or do we need 5, or 10, or 20? All I’m looking for is a concrete requirement statement rather than just “OMG, they are doing it ALL WRONG.”
OK, Here is the 2010 listingwhich includes some communities of color.
http://www.repeal-prop-8.org/i…
Oh, is that what the above replier to me was getting wrong?In short, you, Jake, got it right. Thanks for the clarification.
Here is the list for pro-2012Which includes more communities of color but also several ACLU chapters.
Oopshttp://www.theliberaloc.com/20…
I would like to thank Autumn for posting this storywhether or not people are pro-2010, or 2012 or later, this is definitely a discussion we need to be having.
And my hope is that the extra discussion & awareness will make more people aware of the 2010 campaign & help it cross the fund raising goal victory line, after coming to see that 2010 is a good time to keep the fight going. Of course everyone may come to their own conclusions, but I think this discussion is something that is very needed.
I put up $30, and I’m presently unemployed (although starting grad school soon, I was a receptionist until recently), and I’ve asked friends, family, & other contacts to throw in whatever they can too, and they have. It wont take much now to reach the goal, they are already 3/4s of the way there, and we can all have a hand in reaching that goal if we so decide.
https://secure.couragecampaign…
Pro-2010 List fleshed out4. Who else has signed the letter calling for repealing Prop 8 in 2010?
AFFIRMATION: Gay & Lesbian Mormons
All Or Not At All
BiNet USA
Bi Writers Association
CWA 9000
Desert No H8
Equality Army
Equality Network
Gays United Network
Latino Equality Alliance
Lesbian & Gay Lawyers Association of Los Angeles
Love Honor Cherish
Love = Love This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Meet in the Middle
Mexican American Bar Association
National Council of Jewish Women Los Angeles
National Council of Jewish Women
One Struggle, One Fight
PFLAG San Diego
Pride at Work LA, AFL-CIO
SAME
San Diego Coalition for Peace and Justice
Somos Familia
South Bay Center
St. Luke’s Episcopal Church
Stonewall Democrats
Stop8.org
Straight Ally Women 4 Equality
Team Courage, OC
T.I.D.E.
Truth and Hope
The International Socialist Organization of San Diego
The International Socialist Organization of Los Angeles
Vietnamese For Marriage Equality
White Knot.org
World Pride & Power Organization
Yes! on Equality
If your organization supports repealing Prop 8 in 2010 and would like to be listed on this site, please contact us This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .
Sorry, Sparky
the thread Autumn started…that you’re posting in just in case you and Jake the Wonder Activist didn’t realize it…is all about her belief that moving forward without the support of POC organizations.
So when you say, “those people will have to adjust” and “Screw the people who don’t want us to fight for our rights now”…POC are whom you’re talking about.
And if you don’t think that “Screw” whomever isn’t self-crowning “Majesterial” and, as you phrase it “a shame that this is how you treat people who disagree with you” then you need to buy a mirror.
Then change the perception. Not to mention the reality.And if some people refuse to change their perception once the reality is changed, that would be a shame. But we’re never going to convince 100% of any group to be on board with anything. And just because there are self-appointed spokespersons for California LGBT POC, how is anyone to know that they actually do speak for that population?
I’m not interested in any self-apponited leaders. I’m interested in repealing Prop 8. Some people are going to demand engraved invitations before they join the fight for equality. Others will join because it’s the right thing to do. Others won’t join no matter what. So?
Of course, this not being Selma in the ’50s and me not being George Wallace, I want EVERYONE to be on board. But if some people simply will not be — whether because they rightly or wrongly felt slighted in the past or for any other reason — the fight will go on without them.
Of course there were problems in 2008. Let’s fix them as we move forward, not sit around and complain about the past. And if we cannot convince everyone to fight in their own best interests and we win in 2010 anyway, who loses?
If anybody needs somebody to tell them you’re invited, you’re needed, you’re valued — here it is. You are. Now join the fight for equality that will go on with or without you, but will be better off with you.
The other elephant in the room!The racist reaction of the (white)gay community to the the African American community (and, to a lesser extent, the Latino community) post-Prop 8.
I haven’t forgotten it nor have LGBT POCs nor have the straight POCs that we have to work with. Trust me, the African American community remains angry (very) about that (although some of the criticisms were valid, IMHO, and not racist).
The 2012 listACLU of Northern California
ACLU of San Diego and Imperial County
ACLU of Southern California
API Equality-LA
API Equality-Northern California
Asian Pacific AIDS Intervention Team
Asian Pacific American Legal Center
Asian/Pacific Islander Queer Women/Transgender Activists (AQWA)
Ballot Initiative Strategy Center Foundation
Chinese Rainbow Association
Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles (CHIRLA)
Elections Committee of the County of Orange (ECCO-PAC)
Equality Action Project (Santa Cruz)
Gamba Adisa Quilombo
Gay-Straight Alliance Network
Harvey Milk Stonewall Democrats of Orange County
HONOR PAC
Imperial Court of Los Angeles and Hollywood
Inland Counties Stonewall Democrats
Jordan Rustin Coalition
Martin-Lyon Leadership Institute
Office & Professional Employees International Union (OPEIU), AFL-CIO
Our Family Coalition
SATRANG, South Asian LGBT Organization
The Wall Las Memorias Project
Robert Chacanaca, President, Monterey Bay Central Labor Council, AFL-CIO*
Kerry Chaplin, Interfaith Organizing Director, California Faith For Equality*
Rev. Dr. Jonipher Kwong, Interfaith Organizer, California Faith For Equality *
Jerry Sloan, President Emeritus, Lambda Community Fund, Sacramento*
For that matter not everyone was on boardwith Selma, or the bus boycott in Montomery, Alabama, or with MLK for that matter. A good point, actually.
The powerless also need to hear the truth.Speaking in generalities vs. specifics, I believe, is where we both erred. I was attacking a (too) vague group and, it seems, you were attacking me for a slight I didn’t make.
I see where you’re coming from. And the Internet is an imperfect medium. I’ve now learned from this to be more specific when commenting on sensitive topics — but I still meant what I said.
That’s the point.We need to discuss this. I’ve made up my mind on what it would take to convince me for 2010. And, that is a strong showing of support for 2010 by LGBT people of color organizations.
Frankly, I’m not seeing that. I see more LGBT POC orgs not for 2010 than for it.
And let me be clear — I don’t think KellyAnon is any way racist — I know KellyAnon personally, and hold her in very high regard. She personally embraces community diversity in a way I strongly admire. We disagree on a date for running a Repeal Prop 8 initiative, at this point, but we both agree that the initiative should be repealed.
My concerns have to do with moving enough voters. With a large number of LGBT POC orgs not onboard at the moment, I’m concerned about not having the folk onboard who can move some of the voting demograpic groups that we would need moved. That’s my argument. KellyAnon and Jake Gellar-Goad have different opinions than mine, and there’s nothing wrong with having different opinions.
I’m not sure what the concrete line is KellyAnon……and I think that’s a good point.
I know I’d at least like to see at least some of the groups of LGBT POC orgs that came out with the joint statement against 2010 show a public changing of their minds on the 2010 date.
Basically, if you could convince at least some of those groups, I think you’d convince me.
But yeah, my line is kinda fuzzy.
But let’s point out here that KellyAnon and I both agree Prop 8 should be repealed. It’s not a what question, but a when question.
And frankly, I know KellyAnon personally, and in in the “real world” I’ve seen her work as a volunteer activist. Honestly, you can’t find anyone who embraces diversity in the LGBT community more than she does.
In other words, her and my disagreement on which year we should be working to repeal Prop 8 isn’t racial at all. She just has a different opinion as to when a repeal effort would be best.
On a very personal level, she is someone I admire a lot, and hold in very, very high regard.
2012The fundamentalist Christians will be focusing on the next presidential election and other issues. We need to let the emotions of Prop. 8 die off though, and focus on this in a strategic way.
White Bigots & Racists in LGBT Community & Organizations..I am simply not going to accept compromise or partnership with bigots and racists whatever from white LGBT folks..It is that simple for me..
http://www.PrepareToPrevail.comThere’s the list of organizations (and some individuals) in support of THINKING before we jump into a repeal campaign:
And for those of you think that $200K is a lot of money. In the last two weeks of the No on 8 campaign, they were raising approximate $1 million dollars every 3 days ONLINE.
In order to raise $30-50 million dollars in the 63 weeks let before election day 2010 you need a HECKUVA lot more money than $200k per week.
With me, it’s less about 2010 v. 2012and more about whether the success will be sustainable beyond, say 2010. What’s to stop the fundies from putting it back on the ballot in 2012? And if a personal investment in communities of color isn’t maintained, then we could be right back where we are at now.
I think a “sustainable” and eprmanent victory is what many want also. And that will mean continuing and maintaining personal relationships beyond 2010 so that entire communities don’t feel as if they were used simply for a vote.
Let’s not forget who is strapped for cash and who isn’tMoney talks, especially in religious orgs.
Right now the fundie orgs (FotF, FRC, etc) are hurting for money and have laid people off. They’ll have to pony up actual people to volunteer. They have also been funneling cash to other anti-equality efforts around the country, and can’t really afford to get in on a 2010 effort. Have we seen any of them in Maine? Washington? I haven’t. By 2012, there’s a chance that the economy will have come back enough so they can afford to throw money at our oppression again. That’s one point for a 2010 repeal effort.
But the mormon and catholic war chests literally have no bottom. They will always have the money and resources to dump into funding hate campaigns. That won’t change in 2010 or 2012. The only thing that will change is that in 2010 the mormons won’t want to get as involved because they’re still smarting from the huge backlash against their “church” after Prop 8. And their faithful are also hurting financially and won’t be able to afford to sacrifice the kids’ college fund or take out (another?) second mortgage. I guess that’s a point for a 2010 repeal effort.
I maintain that the way to win a campaign is to shred the mormon-catholic-evangelical alliance. Allanrbrts has a good point about 2012. With the Presidential election coming up then, and the GOP in shreds, it will be a war again between evangelicals for a hard right Jesus freak, the rich and mormon for Mittens, and the still-hanging-on-moderates for someone relatively sane. The right wing alliances will be easier to rip apart over that, especially early in the year during the primaries. Divide and conquer. This was something the No on 8 campaign didn’t do, and really should have because it would have been a piece of cake.
I wish I could say that an incumbent Obama capaign would be a good place for a Repeal 8 campaign, but we all know better. Mr. “Gawd is in the mix” has alienated all but the Beltway brownnosing queers, and shouldn’t count on our support again. He’s certainly not getting my vote for any office, ever. So working with communities of color on local races and initiatives is the best bet insofar as combining campaign efforts.
How many religious communities of color are currently hurting financially in California? Think about those opportunities for outreach. What would happen if LGBT orgs, both primarily white and those of color, volunteered to help those in our target outreach groups on a regular basis? I’m talking about church building repair efforts, food drives or yard sales to benefit the needy in the congregation, real, tangible things that will mean more than some United Colors of Benetton ad. That kind of efforts is what builds coalitions in religious communities, and those kinds of efforts take TIME. They can’t be done in the 15 months between now and November 2010. So points for repeal effort in 2012.
No matter what the end decision is, I’ll support however I can. Each option has its pros and cons.
Examples?I’m curious.
Can’t add a word to thatPerfect!
GT, no broad statements on groups, please…
Agreed!That knee-jerk early reaction made an already bad situation even worse, and caused damage that will have to be repaired before we can even start fixing the problems and divides that already existed before Prop 8 even passed.
Ironically, the reality is that “religiosity” and political self-description are much more highly correlated w/ opinion about marriage equality than race or ethnicity… which casts an odd light on the entire issue at hand. (I’m not saying we don’t need to build bridges and coalitions w/ PoC communities… just that that isn’t technically the biggest hurdle at hand.)
Thank youI regard you quite highly as well, and I’m glad we’re on the same side, no matter how different our opinions about strategy might be. :-)
What Campaign Courage has done & can do
I think they said this is the most watched online political video ever. And it certainly had lbgt poc.
Campaign Courage addressing Race directlyHere is a shorter version of that video that draws the race question into play directly, and again features POC.
Support for 2010The latest Field poll (the most reliable poll in California) has 49% favoring marriage equality and 44% opposed to marriage equality. As time progresses, the odds will steadily move to greater approval. What harm accrues to going to the ballot in 2010? The only arguments I have seen are that we might lose. Isn’t that true in 2012, 2014, 2016, etc.? We know what mistakes we made with Prop 8, and we’re certainly intelligent enough not to repeat the same mistakes. In 2010, Senator Barbara Boxer will be on the ballot (an extremely strong gay marriage supporter), the 2 Democratic people running for governor are strong gay marriage supporters, and the polls will be steadily increasing. In addition, more religious groups will be supporting marriage equality. On the other hand, in 2012, we have no governor running, and Obama will be running and will draw all the GLBT money without any personal support (he’s in favor of civil unions–separate but equal for gays, but not for blacks).
still on cooking bingeI thought I’d share this recipe from my grandmother on the Scotish side of the family, she just called it a meat pie.
It takes ground beef and ground pork, (two parts beef to one part pork)
about 4 large carrots shredded in fine strips
1/3 rd of an onion finely diced
A LOT of poultry seasoning, I’m guessing 5 tablespoons, but do it to taste and salt and pepper.
cook all this filling in a skillet and drain.
I buy the premade pie shells, cuz making pie dough isn’t my thang.
I pre bake the bottom shell maybe half the baking time, and you can weight the pie crust with uncooked beans of something just for weight. (this isn’t absolutely necessary, but it makes the bottom crust flakier)
Then add meat filling to partially cooked shell, either add a top pie crust of I’ve substituted mash potatoes (like a shepard’s pie) and bake til pie crust on top is golden, or maybe 1/2 hour on 300 degrees if potatoes are used….everything is already cooked, so use your own judgement.
All of us kids, (and there were 18 cousins) would beg my grandma to make these, and she had the patience of JOB,with maybe 8 toddlers and pre-schoolers “HELPING” making small pies of our own.
If you try it, let me know how ya like it.
True, but…The folks who argue for 2012 do – regardless of whether I agree with them or not – have important facts on their side. For instance, while that Field poll is encouraging, it is important to note that it is a measure of the entire population of registered voters… not of the population of people who are likely to vote in a particular election (2010, 2012 or any other). It’s great that so many registered voters support equality, but winning in any given election cycle is as much about who actually shows up to vote as it is about the composition of the entire population of potential voters.
That is one of the reasons why it is so important – whether we go in 2010 or 2012 – to repair old bridges and build many new ones with PoC communities (whether they are LGBT-specific or not). In addition to it just making plain good sense for oppressed minorities to band together and support each other (and like I said before, that has to be bilateral… not just LGBT groups looking for PoC community support without genuinely investing in those communities first), it’s important that we improve the diversity of our support to strengthen our turnout at the polls as opposed to just looking at our approval ratings amongst those who could theoretically vote if they chose to do so.
Meat pies….OMFG, peteyMy granny would make those. They were sooooooooooooooooooooo good. My brother has all the cooking talent, unfortunately. And the overwhelming majority of the recipes.
Now she would do the homemade pie dough when she felt like it (and those were her words).
And yes, you can taste the difference.
opps forgot to mention making a gravey, the pie is fairly dry, so you add gravey over a slice of pieI just use a little of the dippings of the carrot meat mix and use a package of brown gravey…(gravey making isn’t my strong suit),that’s one thing,I never learned from my Mom and Grandmothers who made great graveys.
kevif I can cook this pretty tasty pie with the “cheating” I do with pie crusts and gravey mix, ANYONE can manage it.
I’ll warn you make at minimum 2 pies….you’re gonna thank me later…you are gonna inhale the first one…LOL!
speaking of piesIf you need to bring something to a picnic, I was a big hit just bringing a couple of Jellos chocolate mousse pies with Oreo crusts. Even the snooty FOODIE queens snarfed them up…..hehehehe!
It’s unexpected and really refreshing outdoors, and EASY.
I’m not sure if Jello still sells this mix, but it’s just a butter and oero crumb crust cooked with mousse filling chilled.
last night I was playing with Pam’s and Kate’s feet pic from their weddingTrying to mimic a flashdance MANIAC video.
I added the tape and cartoonish leg warmers,(each foot I enlarged seperately so they appear to be rising) but I don’t know enough about video making, to make the feet appear to move really fast. I thought Casey’s pic with a big red bow at the end would be cute. BethCA if you see this you know video editing.
SORRY this cooking stuff I could have sworn I began on an Open threadditzy old queen = moi
CC commited to 2010, EQCA to 2012, what now?The Courage Campaign did some polling, had a majority say they want 2010, and told its members they would likely go for 2010. And then recently they said if we can raise $200,000 in a week then we will definitely put this on the ballot in 2010, and they raised more than that in under a week. So it will be on the 2010 ballot. And they have several LGBT groups working with them towards this goal.
EQCA just sent out an e-mail just now, after the Courage Campaign publicly already committed to putting it on the ballot in 2010 saying they will put it on the ballot in 2012. And they have several LGBT groups working with them towards this goal.
What happens next? Does that mean we are going to vote on this in both over 1 year from now, and again over 3 years from now if we don’t succeed the first time? Will the 2012 groups help out the 2010 groups at all in their first attempt? I surely think the 2010 groups will help out the 2012 groups if they don’t succeed the first time around. So what happens now?
Hopefully it makes no differenceIdeally, everybody would be working full tilt on the work that needs to be done – reaching out to faith communities, reaching out to PoC communities, building up inland and rural organizations, canvassing and generally raising positive visibility – no matter when we go on the ballot. The work needs to be done with the same fervor and urgency regardless.
As for the rest… I don’t think anybody can predict what will happen if/when we qualify for the 2010 ballot. Will 2012 supporters – volunteers, donors and organizers – jump in full force to help, or will they stand back and watch? Hopefully the former, but realistically, probablt a mix of the two.