Tweet
In the organizational and movement chaos surrounding a Prop 8 overturning ballot initiative in 2010 versus 2012, the call for funding is out there. A snippet from a recent Courage campaign e-blast:
Right now, several organizations within the marriage equality movement are debating whether to place an initiative on the ballot to repeal Prop 8 in either 2010 or 2012.The Courage Campaign community already spoke out in favor of 2010, quite strongly. In May, 83% of our members told us to work with our partners to place a marriage equality initiative on the ballot in 2010 — and to help build the movement to support it.That's why the Courage Campaign has mobilized 44 Equality Teams and trained more than 1,000 organizers across California in 2009. And it's why we have been working with the smartest, most experienced campaign professionals in America — people who ran Barack Obama's campaign, know California and can chart a course to victory.But the only way a 2010 campaign can be launched is if the marriage equality movement raises $200,000. That's right. $200,000. That's how much money it will take to determine — through research, polling and focus groups — the initiative language and messages that will move voters to support marriage equality.We are ready to do our part but we can't do it alone. That's why we are asking the Courage Campaign community to raise $100,000 by August 13. And we are challenging our partners in the marriage equality movement to raise the remaining $100,000 as soon as possible.
From holding multiple Camp Courage training events from the coast to the Central Valley to organizing 44 Equality Teams in 23 counties, we have mobilized our members to help build a people-powered foundation for victory in 2010. With a September deadline looming for filing an initiative, these organizers are ready to start gathering signatures.But if the marriage equality movement is not able to raise the $200,000 necessary — $100,000 from the Courage Campaign and $100,000 from our partners — to pay for the research to launch an initiative campaign, then we will have to accept that our movement is not ready to repeal Prop 8 in 2010.And we will have to wait until 2012 to bring marriage equality to the ballot again. It's as simple as that.
A reader contacted me and said he received the call for dollars and had a few questions for the organization.He gave me permission to repost the letter.
I'm sure you've heard about the Courage Campaign asking for $200,000 by 8/13 in order for them to support going back to the ballot in 2010. I thought you might be interested in my response email that I sent them.
I love the Courage Campaign, and I deeply support them; however I have a few questions about this call out for $200,000 and I was wondering if you guys might be able to help me better understand.
He continues below the fold.
Is he overly critical or are these the kind of questions a lot of people have who aren't sure about whether the 2010 advocates are going to be ready.
Grassroots VS Non-Grassroots
I thought the Courage Campaign was supposed to be grassroots, and to me, that means that the people who want something to happen are the ones that actually do the footwork to make it happen. I know quite a few people that do marketing for a living that have volunteered for pro same-sex marriage events in the past who would be willing to donate their time to help create surveys about ballot initiatives. I also know lawyers that would help with drafting the wording for free. As for actually conducting the surveys, I know tons of people across the state who would be willing to stand around with clipboards polling people, phone bank, and even stuff envelopes to mail out the surveys. If printing is where the cost is, I know a printing shop that donated thousands of flyers and postcards for numerous Prop 8 rallies after November. As for analyzing the data once it comes
in, well the marketing people come in to play there too. Has a call been made to ask for volunteers in this effort, and if not, why? While I understand the need to raise funds, the request for a large sum of money in a short period of time seems more like an organization, and less like a grassroots organization.Breakdown of Costs
$200,000 is a lot of money to ask for in such a short notice. Can we see a breakdown of how this money is going to be used? I think this is important since it doesn't seem to involve a grassroots effort, or at least it wasn't promoted in that way. The word “transparency” has been used a lot after the Prop 8 campaign, so making this breakdown viewable to the community would be great. Also, I have given money blindly to organizations over and over in the past and have not seen desired results. For me personally, I have decided not to give any more money to any organization unless I see where my money will be going. A budget and plan would be nice, and I'm sure it would restore confidence for more people to donate additional funds as well.Obligation to Membership Base
I'm a little bit confused on why this stipulation about raising the funds is required for the Courage Campaign to support a 2010 campaign. It was my understanding that the Courage Campaign was going to poll their membership base and would go in the direction that their members wanted to go in. The CC's membership base overwhelmingly said 2010, but now there seems to be an issue in regards to money. While I understand the need for money, surely there is a grassroots way to get this done for less (see Grassroots VS Non-Grassroots section above), especially since the majority of your membership base told you to do it. Organizations like the Courage Campaign exist to fulfill the needs and wants of their members, which at this time need and want to go back to the ballot in 2010.We have all been put in positions by our bosses or board of directors where they wanted us to do a project with really tight constraints, but we move forward to make them happen. Any project manager will tell you that you need time, money, and resources to make a project happen, and when one of those fall short you make up for it in another area. If you fall short on money, bring in more volunteers etc. Your membership base overwhelmingly said 2010, and there are ways to make this happen even if $200,000 isn't raised by August 13th.
Deadline
Where did this deadline of August 13th come from? The Courage Campaign heavily hinted about their support for a 2010 campaign months ago. I remember back in March hearing the organizers of Camp Courage Oakland say that the CC supported a 2010 campaign. Why all of a sudden are we hearing that we need to raise $200,000 ASAP and only have 8 days to do it? Surely it didn't just dawn on us at the last minute that we needed money, right?Thank you for helping me better understand this request. With all that has gone on pre and post Prop 8, a lot of us need a little more understanding and confidence with what is going on, and I appreciate you guys helping out with that.
E.
63 Comments
Really? only $200,000That’s really a pretty small amount, especially for a state wide campaign. Break it down a little to get an idea of how and where the money will be spent. These are just some of the things that come to mind.
Paid staff (you may think you don’t need these people, but you really do*)
Campaign Manager
Field Organizer
1 to 2 paid interns
Rent Office space plus utilities
Office Supplies
Computers that belong to the campaign only
Third Party mailing list company (this is vital, many organizations will not donate their membership lists, unless they know a third party org is handling it and the list will not be made public or used for other purposes).
*Why do you need paid staff? People who are paid to show up, show up, unpaid people find “more important things” that take up their time. Campaigns without staff, led only by grassroots volunteers, tend to go off message and waste a lot of time; arguing about strategy and who is in control.
Paid staff are also loyal to the campaign and are willing to give more time. Finally its actually easier to “fire” a paid employee than to try and get rid of a unpaid volunteer.
Well stated, MattI can’t say enough good things about having paid staff in place to train and coordinate the grassroots activists. And you’re right, $200,000 is a very modest amount.
I think it’s ok to ask questions, but after a point it becomes counter-productive or downright destructive to second-guess every action and decision an organization makes. If we keep tearing down our organizations, especially the ones we supposedly respect as the diarist does Courage Campaign, we shouldn’t be surprised to find only rubble at crunch time.
Donated $30 to Campaign Couragehttps://secure.couragecampaign…
“Is he overly critical”
I think so.
->”Grassroots VS Non-Grassroots”
They polled, and the results were overwhelmingly for 2010. Following the will of the many, rather than the will of the few heads that run an organization seems like the grassroots way to do things to me.
->”Breakdown of Costs”
They don’t give pie charts & graphs or anything on their website, but they do say in more general terms that it will be used for marketing, for determining the right messaging & language to use (prop 8 opponents last time were criticized for using ineffective messaging). I haven’t seen many demands for exact breakdowns of donations to equality organizations in Maine & CT before people are willing to donate. To me this sounds like it might be a supporter of the 2012 or later option finding a reason to say why they were not going to donate anyways already. But full disclosure, if it isn’t obvious already, I support the 2010 campaign, rather than waiting almost 3 & a half years or more for a 2012 or later campaign to succeed. The prop 8 protests were huge, and subsequent protests & rallies have been sizable but dwindle a little each time, I don’t think we should wait over 3 years until that energy is gone. Just one example with support from college students. If we do 2010 we get lots of the same college students that turned out in the prop 8 protests & that have been active in the political climate recently that have experience being involved with this sort of thing, and we can turn them out as leaders while they are still in college and have the free time to do this sort of thing. If we wait over 3 years they will all be working their first full time jobs & probably be busier & we will have to be tasked with turning today’s apathetic high school sophomores & juniors into our college student advocates. I also worry that a presidential election may suck the air out of the room in terms of volunteering & donations, and it was under the presidential election dynamic that we lost, so why not try something different?
->”Obligation to Membership Base”
“surely there is a grassroots way to get this done for less”
It sounds like they are complaining that this is both too high & too low of a fund raising goal. I for one think its a starting amount & will be an impressive figure if really can raise $200,000 in a week. For those who worry that $200,000 isn’t enough to run the entire campaign, I certainly don’t think they are going to collect $200,000 & then declare they are done fund raising forever. And they are over half way to that goal now, I think we can easily help them meet it.
->”Deadline”
“Where did this deadline of August 13th come from?”
An arbitrary deadline is better than none at all. A deadline forces action, and I think it is a very responsible thing to be setting deadlines. But I think an August deadline was probably set because it’s one month before this:
“We don’t have much time. To meet the late September deadline recommended by the Secretary of State for filing an initiative for 2010″
My hope is more people will donate to this initiative. If they can’t collect the $200,000 in a week, then the money collected can be used towards the 2012 or later goal, but if they can launch this campaign with such an explosive start as raising $200,000 in a week… now when we have so much passion & momentum on our side, what an amazing campaign that could be.
https://secure.couragecampaign…
I’d also add, I’ve secured about $200 donations between myself, friends, family, & other contacts.
I’ve seen no argument for 2012 that isn’t actually a even better argument for 2014 or 2016. I feel that we should try for this 2010 goal, the worst that happens is if they can’t meet the goal the money can be saved for 2012.
I’m presently unemployed (soon to be a grad student), and I threw in $30 to help them launch the 2010 campaign. There are always good reasons to wait, but I figure having fairness now has to trump that, because what else can?
So don’t give any money!They set a goal of $200K in a real short period of time based (I would imagine) on the fact that the ballot language is due next month and there have been meetings approximately every two weeks in CA (with another now scheduled in SF next weekend).
Why does everything have to be a freaking conspiracy? Should grassroots mean a vow of poverty to avoid the appearance of elitism?
These questions sound more like someone attending a town hall meeting on health care.
EQCA is supposedly going to make some kind of noise tomorrow (adding to the pressure on CC) that is going to have some kind of sway in the 10 v 12 debate although they might just straddle the fence more loudly to avoid the binary madness. EQCA has been working the streets of SF for weeks now raising money. I’m not a big Courage Campaign follower and I haven’t given them any money yet but I think they can ask for a barometer to test the response of their membership if they want.
Actions speak loud and hitting a target is one way to show that the 80% of the membership interested in 2010 are willing to back their vote up with $$.
Stop throwing tomatoes just because you can. Too easy.
Matt & Lurleen–try READING what it says….
TWICE they explicitly state this $$$ would ONLY go to research!
NOT for a CAMPAIGN manager. NOT for a FIELD organizer. NOT for a mailing list. NOT “paid staff to train and coordinate the grassroots activists.”
RESEARCH. And surely to god they mean they’re paying PROFESSIONALS to do it!
But since the whole project is built upon the idiocy of asking the choir when they want to have church rather than the congregation anything is possible.
Except winning 14 months from now.
with all this confusion and bickering, I don’t think 2010 is a good idea.The emotions are overpowering people’s sense of rationality. People are so gung ho on 2010/2012 that I don’t think the “community” can get it together in time for a successful campaign next year.
Do people think they can run a repeal effort on a shoestring budget, after spending tens of millions last year? Add the fact that so much time has been wasted and it seems unrealistic to expect a “winning strategy” for next year.
Passion & drivemay be emotional, but it is what turns out a lot of people on our side. I think if the Courage Campaign can raise $200,000 in one week, then they have a shot. And I think if they can both demonstrate than fundraising ability, and put it on the ballot in 2010, then the community will come together in more consolidation then.
I think it is a mistake to ask that no one lead on this until the followers have randomly come together, I think the chaos & confusion are exactly why we need a leader NOW, rather than an argument for waiting over 3 years or more to get equality back.
Courage Campaign is the only group whichwants to to back to the ballot in 2010.
The date was set because of a September date (sorry I forget what it is) which would be a cut off time for filing a ballot initiative with the Sec of State.
Money needed for research for wording of said initiative.
Criticisms are warrented but I see Courage Campaign as the only group wanting to go now.
There you have it. Ante up or game postponed.
Seems pretty clear to me since the POC declaration a month or so ago that 2010 is a no go. I’m disappointed but wanting my rights back still a motivator.
Full disclosure: Several months ago I wrote an email back to Courage Campaign when I got an email for $$ complaining I wanted to DO something then I would contribute. I got a personal reply suggesting I organize an Equality Team in my area. Using their support system I did. I’ve donated money to CC which is earmarked for my Equality Team. CC DOES have an agenda for ETs based on the type of support they can give ie. voter rolls for canvassing.
Still want my rights back.
Is it just the POCs?And POCs had their reasons for that. If 2010 is a go, POCs will go above and beyond the call of duty in outreaching to their respective communities, you can bet on that.
I think 2012 is EQCA’s unofficial position too.
I’ve donated to CC too, but how can you get your donations earmarked as you did
I agree, lets builkd allies nowI’ve heard some discussion of the need to build more allies amongst other minority groups. And I’m all for that, I think we need to build more allies everywhere we can. But the need for allies to me isn’t an excuse to wait, it should be a call to action RIGHT NOW.
If some people in California want to make anti-immigrant laws to target minorities (I’ve heard rumblings of this for 2010), then we should be standing up RIGHT NOW based on the principles of fairness & equality that we hold so dear.
This “Group Think” is pathetic….
And everytime I see one of the declarative memes like “get equality back” it’s obvious that the mind set has moved from determination to fight to the mindlessness of a group of children who have confused Election Day and the crap shoot of a vote with Christmas and Easter and the certainty of a present from Santa Claus or Cadbury eggs from Grandma.
The Courage Campaign is equipped to do thatsince they handle more than marriage equality issues.
And yes, I’ve heard those rumblings about an anti-immigrant ballot initiative in 2010. And really…
Look, what these right wing groups like to do (esp. in some of these California initiative battles) is to set one minority group against another. In California, the right has done that with blacks/gays AND blacks/Latinos. I think I agree with you that it’s time to mobilize all minority groups to say enough is enough with setting us off against one another.
Equality is pathetic & mindless?What goal will you be striving for in 2012 or later? What terms will you be using?
Yeah, Jake, you really LEARNED from last year’s mistakes didn’t you?
NOT!
“principles of fairness & equality that we hold so dear”?
Sorry, girlfriend, it ain’t about what WE hold so dear. If it were, we would have gotten all our legal rights decades ago.
Here’s an idea: why don’t all we who hold fairness and equality so dear simply secede from California? Form our own state with full LGBT rights.
After all. If change is simply a matter of grassrooters agreeing, why not click our heels together and go big?
We could call it “Marryland”.
noise tomorrowDo you know when this will be happening? Will it be like a speech with audio or video coverage, or just an e-mail blast, or what form this noise making is going to take?
Put Prop 209 repeal on the ballotI don’t know California politics enough to know if you could get enough signatures for it to actually get on the ballot or even if it stands a decent chance of winning if it were placed on there.
But if the gay community were to support the repeal of Prop 209 (and that’s just an example that flies off the top of my head, there may be many, many other ways to do this) that also would allow the community to build allies in minority communities
Equality isn’t pathetic and mindless…
Thinking all you have to do is WISH hard enough to get it is.
In psychiatry it’s called “magical thinking” and too many are exhibiting advanced cases.
Why so hostile?You’ve used words like pathetic, mindless, and now this?
And I’ve never suggested it is as simple as clicking heels together. I know that it’ll be a lot of hard work, and I’ve suggested we donate & I have, we build allies, and we try taking this fight not during the presidential election dynamic that we lost under last time. And no argument I’ve seen for 2012 is a better argument for 2012 than it is for 2016.
But my question is why be so hostile about this? If I want to show my support by donating to the 2010 cause & asking family & friends to do the same (and they have donated too), how does that hurt you? If the Courage Campaign can’t meet its goal then they can just use what they’ve raise towards your goal of 2012 or later. So why so hostile?
Where did I say wishing?I threw in donations, and got several others to do the same.
Let me try thisGrowing up, I spent a lot of time over at Granny’s house. One of my best childhood friends lived about a half block away. Granny actually took the time to not only meet my best friend but also to meet his grandmother. My Granny and my best friend’s grandmother were never great friends or anything like that. The point was, if I decided to spend time at my best friends house, she needed to know and to bulid a relationship with my best friend’s guardian in order to ensure that there was some common ground; that her grandchild was safe and protected.
What POCs in California are talking about is something very similar to what my Granny would do. For some reason, the gay community has neglected to build those relationshhips, to their detriment. Now, I can only speak of black communities in this respect, but black folks want to get to know you and to trust you prior to lending support.
And really, it’s less about lending financial support to black causes…it’s more about building relationships with communities. This much I know, once blacks folks are on your side, you will rarely (if ever) find a more loyal ally than those in the black community. But…black people do want to take the time to get to know who you are and who “your people” are.
The sounds reasonableSo what do we do to start building those relationships now?
I mean, regardless of whether we are aiming at 2010, 2012, 2014, or 2016, it is still a good idea to start building those relations right now. So how do we do that?
You’re a cornucopia of memes today
“not during the presidential election dynamic that we lost under last time”
I’ve seen this spin before. WHAT is that supposed to mean?
That the highest turnout of California voters in 23 years who, in turn, voted for the officially more “pro gay” of the top two by nearly a 25-point margin somehow “hurt” the chances for marriage equality?
How so?
Am I hostile to all this self-delusion? You’re damned right I am. Because it takes time and energy and money away from things that actually need attention now like partially compensating for all the state cuts in HIV-AIDS education and services.
An educational campaign (toward a 2012 vote) is a reasonable expense. An all-out political campaign for something just 14 months away with all that entails is a Kamikaze mission. I believe in the right to individual suicide but not when it tries to take the whole community with it.
My donations to 2010“You’re damned right I am. Because it takes time and energy and money away from things that actually need attention”
My donations to 2010 aren’t taking away from what I will donate to other lgbt causes.
What makes you think a 2012 campaign is a better course than a 2016 campaign? And what makes you think the Yes on 8 people wont make better use of the extra time than we will?
Wow. That question could be a thread in itself.I would start off by suggesting that people listen to what LGBT POCs are saying instead of flying off of the handle and asking questions like “can’t we bypass POCs?” (as was asked at the San Bernadino conference). I completely agree with peteyPornpig in this respect.
In a larger context, building relationships (whether in minority communities or in the Central Valley) isn’t an overnight task. For example, maybe our side wins in 2010. But would our side be willing to maintain those relationships not only because it’s the right thing to do but to prevent the other side from revoking marriage equality in 2012 (and Californians really need to fix that damned Constitution)?
I know in NCseveral lgbts (including an openly gay town councilman who is running for mayor here in Chapel Hill) were making calls, sending e-mails, and supporting the Racial Justice Act
Half a thoughtgot a call while I was typing that & must have click post before finishing.
I meant to ask, are their similar efforts going on right now that we can support right now in CA?
Stuff like that!in part, what I am talking about. And from what I have read of some people of the gay community in North Carolina (going back to Meb Seagrest(sp?) book “Memoir of a Race Traitor)
In order for alliance like that to happen, I think that all of us need to understand the connection between racism, sexism, and homophobia.
Well, I’m in Chicagoso I don’t know. I do know that this was one of the reasons that I donated to the Courage Campaign very early (months ago in fact). They seem to be a grassroots organization that works across all sorts of boundaries.
Time to forgive Obama & the DemocratsIf we are going to start taking the be patient & wait for a better time advice from the tops of gay orgs & wait for 2012 or later, then we can’t stay mad at straight allies that have the same suggestions of waiting until a better plan can be put in place.
There was such outrage for Obama & the democratic party asking us to wait, but when its a gay org CEO then we have no problem with it?
What IS the Courage Campaign?From their website:
Please note 527s are very different from 501(c)(3)’s and c(4)’s. Only donations to c(3)’s are tax-deductible.
c(3)’s and c(4)’s are supposed to have boards of directors and officers, usually publicly identified. They need to have officers listed with the CA Secretary of State.
I don’t know JakeBoth Unite the Fight and the SF Chronicle mention that EQCA is making an announcement this week. It will probably be at the website at the very least. I think Mark Solomon has a blog at EQCA.com.
I spend (too much) time refreshing blogs to see news about the Prop 8 debate (among other topics) and Unite the Fight as well as Karen Ocamb (via Bilerico) and http://stop8.org/
have been helpful.
Obama and the DemocratsThe 2012 elephant in the room!
It would help if the Democratic Party at a national level (not sure about the California Dems) weren’t such a two-faced Janus about the issue. No, we are rightfully angry at the Dems. Now how we channel that anger…that’s a different question.
Understanding fundraisingAs a professional fundraiser, these “ideas” about how to get things donated always come up, but they RARELY actually happen. Oh – I know a printer who will do all your printing for free – yeah right! Get me a contract with the person that says that and we’ll talk!
No matter how grassroots you are, you still have to plan realistically. If you can get all that stuff donated – great! Do the footwork and offer it to the organization. Don’t just say “I know a guy..” and leave it at that.
I would also love to see a breakdown of what this $200,000 means, but it sound pretty reasonable to me. Polling can’t be done by volunteers – they don’t have the skills to develop it or pull it off. People don’t like to hear about overhead (rent, utilities, salaries, etc.) but sorry – non-profits are businesses too – we have to pay these things and yeah – part of our budgets include these big expenses.
I’m not trying to demonize the person. You should ask questions of the people you donate money too and expect transparency, but I wonder if the person ever took a look at the Courage Campaign’s 990 or website? Are they familiar with the organization’s work? $200,000 is not a lot of money for this kind of project in California. This appeal seems reasonable to me
Like naive young soldiersIt is always the young, wet-behind-the-ears soldier who is eager to go into battle as quickly as possible. It is the wise veteran who knows it is best to go into battle under optimal battlefield conditions. That means your supply line is secured, you have a store of ammunition, your reserve force is in place, you have air supremacy, etc.
There is no good reason to rush into battle in 2010, impoverished, rushed for time, and divided. In 15 months, the entire election will be over. We don’t even have ballot language yet let alone an organization in every county in the state equipped and prepared to do battle with the same folks who delivered 53% last year. It is crazy to plow ahead under these circumstances.
You might say that every day that goes by is another day in which gay people in CA can’t get married and that is true. But it is also true that the vast majority of people who wanted to get married in that state did so in May-November 2008. The historical backlog is largely cleared, and taking the time to prepare for 2012 won’t affect many couples. Also, if you go in 2010 and lose, those couples and many others still won’t be able to marry and will be waiting a long time thereafter.
Like all thos naive lgbts that got angrywhen the democrats said be patient & wait for a better time & better plan?
Do you really think the Courage Campaign is just a bunch of naive young soldiers?
My thinking is, we can donate to this, and if the goal can’t be reached then they can apply those funds towards 2012, but if they can prove themselves by raising 200 k in 1 week then let them try.
https://secure.couragecampaign…
Remember, the Mormon Church prepared for the Prop 8 fightfor almost a decade.
No not just POC statement kevinMeant the reference to a TIME FRAME not a group.
I was referring to the recent declaration..sorry don’t have time to get the specifics…do you know the one I mean?
Two things bug meHopefully this won’t come off sounding too aggressive. I’m at work and trying to be quick in making these points and they might come off sounding inelegant. Please keep in mind that I’m trying to be helpful not bitchy.
1) What exactly do the POC groups do – or need to do – to make the state ready for a repeal? I don’t understand why it is acceptable to wait for them to do something undefined merely because they (and I use that term generally) say it’s going to take longer to change hearts/minds (hate that expression). What have any of us – POC or non-POC – done (or can we do) to change minds about LGBT citizenship? How will one year or two years or four years be enough time to make this happen?
I know that the next campaign has to be more inclusive – outwardly and inwardly – than No on 8 was. I know that our community has to be the same way. I don’t know that we have to solve racism before we can address Prop 8. What do POC orgs need – money? What will happen with extra time? What progress has been made by POC groups in addressing this issue in the past…haven’t they been addressing LGBT matters? I don’t get it. What can I do to help this get moving…do you want the help/participation of a middle aged white guy or is this something POC orgs have to handle within their own communities?
Sometimes it feels like hostage taking on the part of POC’s and I’d rather see what can be accomplished in a repeal effort than simply sit in the corner with the dunce cap on because No on 8 was a shitty POC-less campaign that I didn’t run.
2) When will we stop repeating the ineffective and counter productive crap that Prop 8 is merely an attempt to restrict marriage rights. I don’t think we are ever going to convince anyone that is opposed to ssm that they should reconsider because our relationships are lovely, supportive and flawed just like theirs are. Let them have their delusions or better yet, lets show them how they don’t uphold their own moral bullshit.
A repeal of Prop 8 is necessary because it is an affront to equal protection under the law. Prop 8 was upheld not because marriage is sacred, but because the majority is now officially allowed to legitimately marginalize a minority group that is under represented. Do we need to get the attention and support of POC organizations? Well, then lets talk to them about THAT and not try to sell them on marriage.
Much more than marriage was lost on election day. Much more will be gained when Prop 8 is trashed in CA and in the 29 other states where Prop 8′s haven’t been challenged.
Yeah, I know the oneand I’ve read most of the online discussions that ensued from that statement as well as the San Bernandino meeting.
Personally, I’m indifferent (for the most part) to the 2010/2012 debate, I will devote what I can to the cause either way.
I agree if they can come up with the cash then people will reconsider waitingI’m not in California but I have been paying attention to their financial crisis, so I will be impressed and surprised if they are able to raise $200,000 in less than a week.
these points could/should have their own post!I agree that Prop 8 set a legal standard that is frightening in the ways the logic can be applied to other groups. Even though I’m personally ambivalent on gay marriage (probably because I’m single, LOL!), that aspect of the case is what keeps me interested in repeal efforts.
Regarding POC, I think a couple of things need to happen to “get on the good foot” towards making progress:
a. White gay leaders need to stop using flowery words like “inclusion” and “outreach” and straight-up ask POC groups “what do you want and need” and be ready to contribute those resources (financial/personnel/training/etc). This would indicate an understanding that POC are probably better positioned to make inroads with POC communities, rather than assuming that (specifically) blacks either automatically “understand” prejudice and don’t need to be spoken to or that we’re all homophobic and don’t deserve to be spoken to.
b. POC groups should have a comprehensive list of the resources they need to get the job done. In my experience, many LGBT POC are good at railing against “White Gay Racism” but haven’t spent as much time thinking about ways to be proactive. This is the time to step up.
In case you didn’t get itdiogenes1967@live.com
Also, good post and points from both you and Patrick. I do think that both groups (white and POC gays) beat around the bush.
I think a lot of people are“Personally, I’m indifferent (for the most part) to the 2010/2012 debate, I will devote what I can to the cause either way.”
I think a lot of people are, and I think there are also people with a real passion for keeping this fight going now instead of waiting. And I think if the Courage Campaign can raise 200 k in a week and launch the campaign now, then 200 k will only be the very beginning of the support financial & otherwise that is to follow.
One basic thing we can do before a decision is made about 2010 or 2012Make sure our major LGBT organizations have People of Color at the table when decisions are discussed and decided.
I’ve read several articles that ANY decision made without 4 or 5 POC at the table will be dismissed out of hand, will garner no POC financial support, or POC volunteers.
to kev’s posts about getting to know each other, to build the necessary bridges to allies.
There are many oppurtunities we can use to make those connections happen, and happen unforced and organicly.
The school teachers/parent meetings and organizations seem like excellent setting for neighbors of all colors with kids to begin interactions, with common purpose of improving all their kids education, or anti-bullying issues.
The renovation of neighborhood parks, the producing of community theater projects or art projects also would gather people all across the color spectrum.
And their wealth is in no way diminishedThe mormon “church” has been funding the campaigns to strip away gay rights since Hawaii and Alaska in 1998. They’re pros at subterranean organizations which launder money from church coffers to PACs.
True believers sacrificed their children’s college education funds and their homes to hurt gay people. They’ll do it again and again, as many times as they are asked to do so.
You want to win in CA, be prepared to curbstomp the mormon-catholic-evangelical alliance, same as I’ve been advocating in Maine. Use the mormon “church” racism, past and present, against them. Expose the evangelical sponsorship of anti-immigration initiatives. Bring out the footage of angry racist white christians screaming against healthcare reform because they don’t want the black man to have the same things they do. Want to win? Set minority communities against the racist thug religions that have historically oppressed them. Use that to ally them with inclusive faith communities. Make it a referendum on racist white christians, not on gays, and we’ll win. Divide and conquer.
ExactlyThat’s what I really, really, can’t get over about the black community in California…you listened to the bullshit put out by the Mormon Church.
My point moreso was that the Mormon Church prepared for years for the Prop 8 fight. And yes, it will mean getting down in the mud and showing these bigoted tactics.
After all, if the anti-immigration measure shows up on the ballot again, the right will also use divide and conquer to foment and further the divide between blacks and Latinos in California.
correction“the majority of black communities in California”
And we can either come after equality now & hard & with a passion, or we can set a date that is over 3 years away (or longer if we want to wait until 2014 or 2016) and give them that much more time to prepare.
I say strike now, when they aren’t expecting it.
I’ll givea nice Amen to this!
Not only that, but the outreach has to reflect a genuine interest not a passing need for support. This is one of the things that the LGBT community, with its shamefully short attention span, has a hard time mastering.
People are actually more inclined to support you if you show a genuine interest in who they are.
Two faced Janusis hardly reasonable. How about political pragmatists. Nothing more nothing less.
The Mormonsare not scared to enter minority neighborhoods and engage with people face to face. That is one thing where they deserve real credit.
I’ve seen small pairs of the youg white mormon guys wander into the heart of many ethnic communities in Chicago to do their pitch.
LGBT organizations will only talk to higher ups in well established groups like the NAACP and seem to do everything possible to avoid engaging with people in the community. they cannot be bothered to lower themselves to our level.
This is why religious organizations usually do pretty well in minority communities.
Right wing preachers don’t seem to have a problem contacting black or latino churches and setting up a meet and greet in our houses of worship.
I completely agree with your point about the MormonsI disagree with your point about LGBTs “can’t be bothered” though.
I think that has much more to do with the fear of a)race b) religion. That fear of religion does permeate many LGBT organizations. As a result, I know many in the gay community of a spiritual/religious mindset (across color lines) that feel turned off.
TRANSLATION:
“If it remotely sounds like anything demanding that My God Obama stop being a two-faced coward talking out of both sides of his mouth about gay rights: ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!
I can understand SOME of the fear.
The problem is that its based on a flawed assumption from the start. It assumes that you enter these communities with an agenda/objective rather than a genuine interest in the people.
There has to be a real effort to try and get to know people rather than just telling them what you want. This is why a long lead up time is a good idea.
LGBT PEOPLE, not just orgs, really need to choke down the paranoia and walk into these places just to find out what’s going on there and how they can establish a long term presence there. Its about many gay white folks actually getting out there and making some REAL black/latino friends. And I don’t mean casual friendships…I talking about really getting to know them. They should be one of the people that you call up on a lazy weekend to sit around, talk and BS over a beer or coffee. Just making people a part of your day to day existance makes a HUGE difference.
I know that personally I’ve had a white friend admit that it for not me and and us getting to be close friends, she would probably have been racist and homophobic (because she’s had bad experiences with both).
Big Push from CC just this afternoon
I tried to recreate the look & emphasis from the e-mail they just sent out.
It looks like my $30 donation brought the average down.
I think with less than $42,000 left to raise, they are going to make reach goal, follow through with the desires of those they polled, & put this on the ballot in 2010. And I’m glad to have been a part of that. But it isn’t over yet, so I think it is still worth donating to if you haven’t yet, to be a part of that too.
Not just gay white folks though!
In this instance…it HAS to be on their part. Remember, its the LGBT community that needs that connection to these communities for its own sake. At some point you suck it up and do what it takes to make the change that will benefit you. Black America is already fairly isolated and sees the LGBT community as just an extension of the majority power structure that has been such a problem for us.
In this regard, the white LGBT community has take a moment and really consider how it is viewed by minority communities. I suspect that the biggest challenge is that Black Americans do NOT see LGBT folks as being another minority. They see the same image that is projected to the rest of America, a community dominated by rich, urban, white elitist men. To the guy in the ghetto, that’s the same man that has always been an issue.
This is why the LGBT community has a greater obligation to extend that olive branch. Its about understanding the social dynamics and then working to change the perception.
I’m not exactly disputing thatbut gay groups attempted to that during the 80′s with the AIDS crisis and they were turned away from many ethnic minority communities.
That experience may also account for a bit of the fear, there’s history there too.
Also, Black America cannot see that “rich urban white elitest” as being the only LGBT folks, especially not on Sunday morning. I give straight black America more credit than that. Now they may be accustomed to treating and regarding black LGBTs in the black community in a different way…
I Wrote the Email – Please Let Me Explain
Hello everyone. I am the person who wrote the email to the Courage Campaign and all I can say is WOW. It looks like I need to clear a few things up. First of all, I am a strong supporter of going back to the ballot in 2010. Second of all, I am not against the Courage Campaign. I actually think they do great work. I think a lot of people misinterpreted my email because the issue I was trying to make had nothing to do about when we should go back to the ballot and it had nothing to do with $200,000 being too much money.
While I understand that funds need to be raised in order to move forward with a campaign, the real question is this, “If the Courage Campaign truly is a grassroots organization, why are they asking for money first instead of asking for people to donate their time and expertise”? Since the Courage Campaign is a grassroots organization, instead of asking for $200,000 in 8 days, maybe it would be more effective for them to profile their membership base FIRST and then ask for money (or do both at the same time). For example, I think it would be a good idea to ask people what they do for a living and/or if they have a degree. That way, when the Courage Campaign needs to accomplish something like creating a survey, they could contact their members that specialize in marketing. The Courage Campaign could then ask those people if they could volunteer their time and services on a specific project. This seems like it would be a more effective way to use resources in a grassroots organization.
We all saw missed opportunities in the Prop8 campaign and it’s important that we learn from our mistakes. For example, I went to my local Prop 8 office to volunteer as was actually turned away because the people running the office said they didn’t have anything for me to do. We can’t afford to make that same mistakes again. We have good people that are willing to donate their expertise to us. All we need to do is ask, and honestly we should be tapping into that resource as much as we can.
Of course I understand that there is still a need to raise funds; however I think that we are overlooking valuable resources that could make us more efficient while allowing us to save time and money. Again, the issue is not about asking for money. The issue is about our community NOT utilizing the available resources we already have. Let’s be smarter with our resources and find better ways to utilize what we have. We as a community can do so much more than give money and we need to tap into that. That’s what true grassroots power is.
Karen – what does POC mean here?Public Outreach Campaign
People of Color
or something else?
huh,you seem very upset. Would you like to sit down and I can make you some tea?
talking about just research. But
I was just stating some general information and NOT
a campaign can and does include finding the correct people to work in said campaign.
But there is a chance I could be wrong, especially since I know nothing about political campaigns (or losing campaigns that is). Are you working in the campaign? Are you involved? If this issue so concerns you that you feel the need to yell at Lurleen and myself, than get off your computer and join the group. Than you can control where the money is spent.
Have a nice day
who are you TruthinessToPower?first you attack people for “Group think”
Than you attack us for having different opinions.
seriously settle down put your feet up and have some coffee….actually some tea in your case. Remember name calling and attacks are not civil behavior.