What a miserable…piece of sh!t. I know…  that’s not terribly constructive This is just another example of religion used as a crutch to prop up the hate.  Too bad there is no hell for Allen and his “sister” to rot in.

Good for you, Autumn.The idiot’s in prison — we know he’s not enjoying himself.  And he’ll enjoy himself even less when he’s in solitary, which is where he’s obviously headed.  Anything any of us can do to speed his trip there is a good thing.

Go Autumn!It’s amazing. Dangerous, insecure psychopaths like him slide past the MySpace censors. Yet if I post a picture that’s “too sexual”, they’d be all over my arse.

That page needs to goI don’t really know much about how or if MySpace checks to see who is creating a page on their site, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that it is being created by someone other than Allen Andrade. Possibly a member of his family or a unrelated teenager who thinks this is all funny. Autumn, is there anyway to ask MySpace to check and see who posting this stuff? Maybe MySpace can check their IP logs to see where the posting connection is originating from?  

You may want to get some national groups involvedNational Parents of Murdered Children
100 East Eighth Street, Suite 202
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
E-mail: natlpomc@aol.com
(513) 721-5683 (phone)
(513) 345-4489 (fax)
Toll Free: (888) 818-POMC  

Colorado Attorney General’s Office1525 Sherman Street, 7th Floor    
Denver, CO 80203        
Main: 303-866-5788
FAX: 303-866-3955
http://www.ago.state.co.us
judy.page@state.co.us  
Hours: 8-5 M-F
Victims Served: All Crime Victims  
Services:
Criminal Justice Advocacy
Information and Referral
Victim Compensation Referral Assistance
Victim Rights Assistance  
The Victim’s Assistance Unit in the Colorado Attorney General’s Office provides notification to victims whose offenders’ are appealing their convictions and/or sentences. Other services are general victim support, referrals to other resources, general information of victim rights.  

A question from a non-AmericanAs much as I find the page disgusting I have one question for clarification: is there a law that prevents a criminal or members of a criminal’s family from posting their point of view? (1st Amendment vs victim rights?)
I know in Canada that Criminals are not allowed to profit from their crime but if a family member tries to promote innocence of them it may be acceptable.  

A prisoner has limited rights in the U.S.There are laws that protect victims and their families from being harassed by criminals behind bars.
In this case, the prisoner appears to be communicating through the website. It also demeans his victim.

you know the real ones that GOD makes with VAGINAS, FALLOPIAN TUBES, UTERUSES, PERIODS, OVARIES.

This is hate speech. It is also a violation of the MySpace terms and conditions.

I think this is a mastakeThe family has a right to post anything within the My Space terms of use regarding this man.
You are making a big mistake perusing this.
I have said this before the family will turn this into a cause one which may not turn out being favorable for TG folk.

There is nothing on this planet the state of Colorado can do about this. They cannot stop his family from posting anything they want on the internet.  

“Too sexual” is evil and must be supressed. Hate-motivated murderers, not so muchDuh, what culture have you been living in?  

Whatever anyone does…play it on the up and up.   The first opportunity given, will be taken up by the right-wingers. Not just the wing nuts, but the whole damned army of darkness.  
Freedom of speech is like a river that can wash away the truth in a flood of lies.
It can also cleanse.

PronounI think we should start using “it” to refer to Andrade. That beast is not a man.

I say bombard the MySpace pagewith the following post:

Well, thanks to the fact that Allen is a murderous bisexual who can’t admit to himself (much less anyone else) what he truly is, “VAGINAS, FALLOPIAN TUBES, UTERUSES, PERIODS, OVARIES” are among things that he will never, ever see or be anywhere near again.
Cheers – from the OUTSIDE!

I know…
Shutting the thing down is more appropriate.
Still…….

This page isn’t about promoting his innocence.And prisoners anywhere in the world quite obviously have less rights than any other citizen, beginning with the fact that they’re locked up in a prison.  Associations and communications are restricted, in part, to prevent prisoners from orchestrating or conducting crimes inside or outside of prison.
Mounting a defense from inside prison is and should be legal, compounding the crime for which you’ve been convicted — and doing it by breaking prison rules by having a cell phone — is not and should not be.

I hate religionand here’s why…

you know the real ones that GOD makes with VAGINAS, FALLOPIAN TUBES, UTERUSES, PERIODS, OVARIES. In short, the ones that GOD gives the opportunity to co-create with.

What is wrong with this person.  What a horrible vile individual who feels justified because she hides behind her storybook.  Allen murdered an innocent, beautiful person and none of your bigotry will justify it.
On the plus side, Allen will only see PENISES, you know the real ones that GOD makes with TESTICLES and SPERM.  In short, the ones that GOD will give him the opportunity to suck and have rape him.

“The family has a right to post anything…”You’re missing the point that they are violating the terms of service.
This is why MySpace took down the previous webpage. It is why MySpace will take this one down, too.

…the family will turn this into a cause one which may not turn out being favorable for TG folk

How can exposing hate speech and bigotry be unfavorable for anyone?

There is nothing on this planet the state of Colorado can do about this. They cannot stop his family from posting anything they want on the internet.  

Andrade is posting directly to this webpage via a cellphone. This can and must be stopped.
Families of victims have rights. They do not have to tolerate this man slurring his victim with the aid of his family.

Andrade won’t be rapedI hate to keep pointing this out, but this man is a vicious killer.
He will be the one preying on the weak and raping them. I know it is a nice fantasy to pretend that this man will become a victim in prison, but that won’t be the case.
He is in prison with many men who are there for non-violent crimes. They will be his targets until he is too old and weak to do them harm.

I want justice for Angie…I want no one to be raped, even in prison.
I just want him to live out the rest of his natural born days in prison, and Angie’s family wants him to do.

Can youlink to the TOS paragraph that his family is violating?
I have read the TOS and can’t find it.  

Disgusting beyond belief…
I think local news outlets might be interested in the fact that this psychopath is now harassing the trans community from his cell, and/or with the participation of his family.  This guy reminds me of Charles Manson in many ways.
That fact that he uses religion as a weapon is especially sickening — to the point of real, physical nausea.
If there is a big enough stink, he’ll probably get most or all of his privileges revoked, hopefully permanently.  
Evil like this should rot in a dark, dank cell far from the light of day or the communion of humanity until it eventually dies alone and unloved.

These are the terms that apply

Content/Activity Prohibited. The following are examples of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on, through or in connection with the MySpace Services. MySpace reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in MySpace’s sole discretion, violates this provision, including, without limitation, removing the offending Content from the MySpace Services, terminating the Membership of such violators and/or reporting such Content or activities to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to, Content that, in the sole discretion of MySpace:
8.1 is patently offensive or promotes or otherwise incites racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual;
8.2 harasses or advocates harassment of another person;
8.3 exploits people in a sexual or violent manner;
8.7 constitutes or promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous;

http://www.myspace.com/index.c…

And these are all common-sense rules that apply to any similar website.Of course you can’t use any general-interest public Internet forum to spread hate or attack individuals.  No website that caters to everybody would be crazy enough to let that happen.  Forget common decency, they’d be open to a ton of civil and criminal litigation.

Maybeunder section 8.1 of the section you have sighted.
But..
I wouldn’t bet on it.
The sight itself doesn’t violate the TOS.
People here are going after who the site is dedicated to.
That isn’t a TOS violation.
How can a person be offensive?
If that was the case than the Christian majority would have all the GLBT people thrown off My Space.  

prison is too good for this guyThis is one of the few cases where I think the death penalty is deserved. What this man did is attrocious and signifies an individual that will probably never able to re-enter society, and I don’t want my hard earned tax dollars to go towards his meals and well being while he sits in his cell. Also, everyone who has a myspace should go and report his for terms of use violation and get it deleted again

All four apply

I wouldn’t bet on it.

MySpace already shut them down once. It is a safe bet that they’ll do it again.

How can a person be offensive?

Hitler? Offensive.
Charles Manson? Offensive.
Ted Bundy? Offensive.
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold? Offensive.
MySpace shuts down pages that glorify these murderers.
Russell Arthur Henderson and Aaron James McKinney? Offensive.
Michael Magidson, Jose Merel, Jaron Nabors, and Jason Cazares? Offensive.
Why should Allen Ray Andrade be any different?

FritzThis guy isn’t any of the above.
He is not a mass murderer.
He is just a common criminal who committed a hate crimes, his family came to his defense based on their perception what makes a man and what makes a woman,
How is that hate?

The public doesn’t own MySpace.A corporation owns MySpace.  A corporation that can be sued and whose lawyers would NEVER allow them to publish hate speech and personal attacks — as proven by the fact that they already took down the last attempt by these idiots to post there.
I really don’t understand why you think anybody can publish anything anywhere on the Internet that they want.  People are banned from this blog for being less offensive.  Where are you finding other examples on general-interest public Internet forums where hate speech and personal attacks are not prohibited by the site owners?

Oh, I seeYou don’t give a single human life the same value as many.
The man is a MURDERER. He killed a person out of hate and malice.
Do you think it makes any difference to the families of the people murdered by Charles Manson that he killed six more besides their loved one?

How is that hate?

His family is demeaning the victim. They are saying that she wasn’t a “real” woman and insinuating that she brought her death upon herself.
That is hate. It is ignorance. It really doesn’t matter that you don’t agree.
Many others recognize it as hate speech.  

He did…..…..after all say he would like to meet Jesus. I say lets speed up the process.

In the eyse of them and the greater society what makes a woman is physical features including primary sex characteristics such as a vagina for a woman and a penis for a man. In terms of civil law what makes a woman is what that woman’s birth certificate says.
That is not hate or ignorance that is biological and legal fact.
This fight cannot be won from the position of “she said she was a woman therefore she is” in terms of day to day living in the greater society that is fiction.
This is why the TG folk have to choose their battles very carefully.
The transgender community can’t win this one without a serious loss in credibility.    

Not me.I hope he has another 30 or 40 years of what passes for “life” in his high security prison cell. The realization he will never taste freedom again, due to his crimes, will dawn on him eventually.
If he really finds Jesus — swell. He can have all the Christian repentance and contrition he can enjoy from his prison cell. Y’know, the cell where he’s going to spend the majority of the rest of his hopefully long, natural life.

What?Can they be sued for, I don’t see where leaving that site up puts them in any kind of legal trouble.
Would you please post how they are exposed to being sued.
I don’t see it.

I really don’t understand why you think anybody can publish anything anywhere on the Internet that they want.  People are banned from this blog for being less offensive.  Where are you finding other examples on general-interest public Internet forums where hate speech and personal attacks are not prohibited by the site owners?

This blog is not My Space, the terms of service here are different than on My space. The My Space terms are broader.
Nobody on that My Space page has attacked anybody, they haven’t made hateful statements, there are showing support for their family member who is jailed for murder. They are espousing triditional Christian values regarding what makes a man and what makes a woman.
That is not only not illegal it is not actionable in civil court.
You can do that in the United States of America, it’s not against the law.

Let’s change the subject.

Thatis an appropriate response.
Good for you.

This is not a thread about free speech……or about lawsuits. So let’s all take this discussion to an open thread, if we wish to keep this discussion going, or write our own diaries with this as the subject of the diary.

There’s no credibility if this is ignored

The transgender community can’t win this one without a serious loss in credibility.

This can be won. Autumn is winning it. I have every confidence that she will keep this killer off the Internet.
Transgender people must stand up against people who MURDER them and those who support the MURDERERS.
Can there be a more important battle?
Is there anything more valuable than life itself?
You keep ignoring the fact that this killer is posting to this website using a cellphone.
Stop trying to color this in a way that suits your argument.

And hopefully…His family will come to realize that the victim is not to blame for his actions.
I’m sure they love him and have difficulty accepting the fact that he is out of their lives for a very long time.
But, getting him a cellphone so he can post to MySpace is far beyond giving him love a support. They have nothing to gain from what they are doing online.
This man destroyed many lives.

I know Autumn warned about free speechBut I just had a question whether this page might be able to be charged as hate speech; or revictimizing the family and other transpeople?
I won’t press this question if this crosses the line about speech…just wondered.

How do you knowIt’s the killer posting to that site?
You really don’t know because you don’t have access to the source routing. Someone might know but for now that is an assumption on your part.
Your right this is not about free speech.
This is about rather this is a battle the TG folk can win, and I don’t think the transgender movement can win this one without it costing credibility points in the long run.
His family has every right to set up as many sites advocating his view rather WE (you, me and everyone else) likes it or not.
This is all about how the TG community is going to look when it’s all over.  

**humph**You mean to tell me that my bubble isn’t a real culture? Well I will say, good day to you! **turns away**

I am not in favor of what they are doingBut I know they have even under MS’s TOS every right to do it.
I’m done trying to explain this.
have a good day and be safe.  

I think you are giving more credit than he deserves.It is clear that he is unrepentant of his crime, as he and his family consider this just “one” mistake, and from their words it appears that they believe this murder was just a minor mistake.
The comment I made is actually quite unusual for me to make because I am against state sponsored retributive murder (at least 99% against the death penalty,) but I think that there should be few exceptions to that rule. And to me, this is just one of those exceptions.
But I would personally have a difficult time reconciling the fact that I am pro-choice and at the same time be 100% against the death penalty.  

Actually, this entire topic is PRECISELY about what constitutesprotected speech in the United States, depending on the status of the individual attempting to practice it. In this case, what are the rights of the family of the killer versus the rights of the killer himself; what may one say on a site such as Myspace in order to stay within the terms of service versus other options.
One thing you’re doing for sure is showing the family by trial and error how they can remain within the bounds of whatever service they ultimately choose to broadcast this killer’s story.
I’d bet that all this publicity already has some of the most disgusting groups imaginable lining up to offer the Andrade sisters a site where they can feel right at home. And they won’t have to do even the minimal amount of censoring that Myspace would require.
Look!  Free publicity!

Angie’s murdererAndrade’s people who are responsible for making his hate page possible are criminals who need to be held liable. Facebook should be facing liability as well. And the evil monster needs to have every possible privilege he is enjoying taken away. Not only any cell phones found, but no calling privileges whatsoever, no visitation, and his mail privileges should be removed. Anybody who helps him or makes a website or a post in is name should be prosecuted. This psychopath is extremely dangerous. Society is not safe with him incarcerated in the general prison population. He should be isolated while he’s in there. His people say he’s repented???  

Transphobia alert…LiZ, how does “the view of the greater society” about gender identity lessen Andrade’s moral culpability for the evil manifested in his MySpace page?  Angie Zapata is a PERSON who was murdered, and now her attacker continues to slur her by suggesting that she deserved to die by virtue of being who she was, i.e., a transgender woman.
Andrade’s MySpace page is sickening – and the fact that you even introduce the “definition of a woman” into this discussion implies that you think Angie’s transgender status makes the page less sickening.  It doesn’t.  A page like Andrade’s is a horrid sin against the memory of ANY murder victim.

Exactlywhy I warned against fighting this battle.

Not actionable in civil court?Ever heard of “intentional infliction of emotional distress”?
We can wrangle all we want about whether, and how, any potential liability of Andrade’s under such a tort theory could be imputed to MySpace – i.e., whether there’s any statutory basis or common-law doctrine that does this directly, or what MySpace would have to do or omit (and for how long) in order to fall within the elements of the tort on its own account.  But that’s just a question of identifying the proper defendant – not of whether the behavior itself is actionable.  And if speech asserting that someone’s loved one deserved to be murdered doesn’t constitute intentional infliction of emotional distress, then I don’t know what the hell does.

My viewI doubt it.  We’re not hating on Andrade for being a member of any particular group… we’re hating on him for his murderous actions.

Doris TateThe mother of Manson Family victim Sharon Tate fought constantly to keep Manson and his followers from profiting from their murders and to keep them locked up as long as possible. She died in 1992 and her daughter Patti took up the cause. When Patti died in 2000, sister Debra took over.
Through the efforts of the Tate family, Manson was recognized as a threat to society even from behind bars. Manson is not allowed Internet access. He is not allowed near a telephone. All of his mail is screened. He is not allowed access to the media. His arts and crafts are confiscated so he can’t sell them.
This family has had to deal with this for 40 years!
What a horrible burdon.
By taking on Allen Ray Andrade, Autumn is sparing Angie Zapata’s family from some of this.
Of course, Andrade is not Charles Manson. But, he could very easily promote himself as a martyr and profit both financially and emotionally from his online activities.
No mother should have to deal with this.
I’ll leave you all with these links:
http://www.charliemanson.com
http://www.myspace.com/charlie…

I agreeThat comparison of Andrade to Jesus was an absolute puke-o-rama for me… and I’m an agnostic who is deeply skeptical of ANY religious belief!
Insofar as the historical record discloses any Jesus, he was executed for saying things, as a spiritual and/or political leader, that the ruling powers disliked.  Andrade, on the other hand, is bearing his so-called “cross” because he f$cking DESERVES IT… for murdering a fellow human being out of pure, seething hatred.
So where’s the outrage from the fundie Christians about having this lower-than-Barabbas scum equated with their savior?  Oh yeah, I forgot… they can’t do or say anything, even in their own interest, when it would appear to align them with trans, lesbian, bi or gay people in any way, shape or form.

Above and beyondthe Constitution of The United States says His Family has the right to free speech.
They haven’t violated My Space’s TOS (yet)
So far the doccument our founding fathers blessed us with reigns supreme in this matter.  

I see two possibilitiesFirst find MySpace users willing to leave MySpace over this hateful page.
or
Create a hundred anti-Andre pages to show our anger.

I think he should be under the jail but…The guy who tried to blow up a plane with his shoes just got released to the general population (at least to pray) in the federal prison he’s in..this cretin might lose privileges for the cell phone, but I doubt he’ll be isolated for dangerousness, or lose visitation privileges, unless he does something in prison. And I doubt he’ll do that. This one preys upon those he perceives as weak, and I have no doubt there are bigger and badder than him in the valley.  

anti-Andrade….mistake

Agreed,You have to keep to the high road in this manner.
Lowering yourself to the level of your opposition NEVER works to your favor.

Free SpeechThe free speech clause in the 1st Amendment was intended primarily to establish the right of the citizens to freely criticize their government. It was not meant as a free-for-all where people can say whatever they want whenever and wherever they want, which is why we have laws against slander, libel, incitement to violence, harassment, and yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater, among others. Also, it is perfectly legal for a business entity such as My Space to impose certain common-sense speech restrictions on those who use it’s service.

Just got an e-mail from Myspace……..…….account deleted, AGAIN!
I’ll be checking to see if it (Andrade) puts up a new one.

Oy VeyWhen did everyone get a sarcasmectomy.  It was a compare/contrast of what was on the MySpace page.
On MySpace:

you know the real ones that GOD makes with VAGINAS, FALLOPIAN TUBES, UTERUSES, PERIODS, OVARIES. In short, the ones that GOD gives the opportunity to co-create with.

My play with words:

Allen will only see PENISES, you know the real ones that GOD makes with TESTICLES and SPERM.  In short, the ones that GOD will give him the opportunity to suck and have rape him.

I have a magnet on my fridge that reads,

Tact is for People who aren’t Witty enough to be Sarcastic

Perhaps that’s why I lack Tact.  LOL.  Also, once again, words and intent where put into what I wrote even though no such thing existed.  sigh