Vicks reinstatement?No, Vick has not earned a “second chance”. Send a message.

Why I Wrote ThisI wrote this piece because it underscores how we, as a society, still marginalize the value of our canine companion’s lives.
As a life-long dog lover and dog owner, I am appalled by what Michael Vick did. His behavior went beyond simply being cruel. It was depraved.
He used his home as a betting octagon charging people up to $40,000 a bet to watch an innocent dog acquired at a local pound, get ripped to death. Vick’s operation favored using former companion dogs and gentle breeds who aren’t wired to fight back against the jaws of pit bulls and rottweilers.
The actual of number of dogs who died at Vick’s house of horrors is unknown but Federal prosecutors involved in the case stopped counting at 130.
So Vick served 23 months — really 18 months and the remaining 5 months at home. One of my readers crunched the numbers.
Vick served 23 months which works out to be roughly 690 days. He and his posse killed (according to media reports during the trial) 130 dogs. So, this means he served approximately 5 1/2 days in prison for each dog he murdered.
People say he was forced to file for bankruptcy, so coupled with his prison sentence, Vick has more than paid his debt to society and all should be forgiven.
Sorry, but not from my perch on the world.

No, no, no!This person is a cold-blooded sadist, who got pleasure from torturing and killing helpless dogs. If anyone deserves to be banned from the NFL for life, it would be Michael Vick.
Compare this to Pete Rose. He was banned from baseball for gambling. So in the world of professional sports, gambling is a worse crime than killing 130 dogs. It makes me sick just thinking about it.

What you can do1) Write a letter to Roger Goodell, the Commissioner of the NFL, condemning him for reinstating Vick.
2) Write a letter to your local NFL club. Let them know you will have nothing to do with either the team, or their advertisers if they sign Vick to a contract.
3) Write a letter to the radio and TV home of the team (and your local affiliate, if you’re outside the station’s range) and say the same as #2.
4) If Vick is signed by a team, and it visits your local team, picket the stadium. Hand out fliers to the fans, letting them know Vick should’ve been banned from the NFL.

Vick doesn’t strike me as someone who can NOT go back to a fast cruel lifeI expect he’ll violate his parole, and finish any hope at a come back.

The NFL is rife with criminalsRape, domestic violence, assault, drugs, guns, etc.  A 1998 book claimed that something like 20% of then-current NFL players had been charged with a crime (I can’t seem to find the conviction rate anywhere).  
So, clearly the NFL is exactly the right place for Vick.  

Let me be the voice of dissentand say that Vick deserves a second chance. He’s paid his debt, and now he should be allowed to move on with his life. It’s not like he’s going to move right back into his old lifestyle. He’ll never get a $100M contract again and he won’t get a ton of endorsements anymore. He’ll be paying for his crime for the rest of his life.

I kinda sorta agree with youif the NFL gave Pacman Jones a second chance then Vick deserves one too.
And you never know, I remember the story of Ron LeFlore going to state prison prior to entering major league baseball and becoming a star. The Detroit Tigers, in fact, scouted him on the prison baseball team, recruited and hired him. He became one of the most productive Tigers ever and never, during his MLB career at least, did he get into trouble with the law again.
Then on the other hand you have Darryl Strawberry…so it’s really in Vick’s hands now.  

By the way, long time, no see, how’s it going?

I actually didn’t lodge an opinion either wayI didn’t because I can see both sides. One point though —  Pete Rose was banned for flipping betting on baseball – and no lives were lost there. It apparently boils down to whether people think killing domestic animals means more than tossing down cash with a bookie on your sport.
However, the man needs to be able to earn a living. Re-employment with a high profile position on an NFL team is more than a job-it’s for better or worse, a way for someone to obtain the label as role model. Some team will sign him, and those who feel he doesn’t deserve a chance will picket or boycott the team, and others will pay to see him play. I don’t see an easy answer to this.
My anger at this point lies more in what he and people like DMX have done to harm the reputation of pit bulls (and similar breeds), and to giving any legitimacy to dog fighting as some kind of proof of his manhood. We have enough pathology surrounding equivalence of manhood to violence and ignorance in minority communities. Vick’s “rehabilitation” needs to include being a spokesman not only against animal cruelty, but to get rid of breed-specific legislation that permits APBTs to be killed at shelters because 1) no one wants to adopt them and they are euthanized; or 2) they are bred to be a menace and are put down.  

Just my humble opinion:He has served his time, paid his debt, and expressed remorse. Let him play.

Just my humble opinion:He has served his time, paid his debt, and expressed remorse. Let him play.

Well, I think Pamis referring to additional things that the NFL is in purview to implement as a condition of his reinstatement to underscore the importance of the issue of animal cruelty.  

And as a football fanlet’s quit it with the NFL bashing, please.
And let’s be clear about Pete Rose; Pete Rose was banned for betting on his on sport and, possibly, on his own team. That goes to the integrity of the sport in which he was a manager (wish that MLB felt the same way about all the roided up players).

NY Jets won’t hire himI know the owners of the team and they are animal lovers,  raise golden retrievers.  

It’s up to Vick nowI agree with pretty much everything that’s been said.
I’m unconvinced that Vick has reformed, or is capable of such – but I’m open to the possibility, too.
The thing is, it’s all up to Vick now.  If he goes out and demonstrates that he’s reformed his ways – keeping his head down, being a good team member and model citizen, donating to animal charities, and making a good faith effort to atone for what he’s done – then I’m all for letting him have his second chance.  
But if, as peteypornpig posted above, Vick is someone who cannot NOT go back to “a fast cruel life,” then that will also be made apparent pretty quickly.  In which case, any NFL team that hires him deserves every bit of public backlash they get – and hoo boy, they’ll get it!

Hey, isn’t criminal activity one of the things that define“real men” in The Greatest Country in the World?  Right alongside sports?  What a nasty old spoilsport you are, complaining about their good, clean, manly fun!

Well, it doesn’t have to be an NFL teamFor the time being, Vick can go to the Arena Football League or even the Canadian Football League (a style of football that actually caters to Vick’s talents). Plus, he may be better able to stay out of the limelight for a time. It’s all in what team wants to take that risk. And, as you say, Vick’s actions  

He’s done what the law requires of himand he’s still on parole.  He needs to find work as do all parolees.  It is up to potential employers whether they are willing to take the risk to their business to hire him.  I don’t believe in unofficially extending a prison sentence by further stigmatizing people (his crime did that well enough already).  If he breaks parole, he goes back to jail.  If he turns his life around and follows the plan he worked out with authorities, that is a good thing.

“Felony Franks” is hiringhttp://abcnews.go.com/Business…

I wish them well!That’s a very interesting experiment – I hope it succeeds.  I read on page 2 how alderman Bob Fioretti was saying “There’s a victim from a felony. A felony means time behind bars and a felony means lost resources,” Fioretti told WLS-TV. “We shouldn’t be glorifying felonies”.  Thing is, I don’t see the business glorifying felonies, I see it trying to ease the ex-con stigma by making it into a cutsey theme hook.
What I see as glorifying crime is when the press calls underworld figures by their crime names.  Used to drive me crazy that the Boston papers and news never would miss the opportunity to call James Bolger “Whitey Bolger”, or Stephen Flemmy “Steven ‘the rifleman’ Flemmy”.  I felt that they were completely perpetuating gangster glam by doing so.

abominablethe problem isn’t that vick has served his sentence, it’s that the sentence for doing those kinds of horrific things to living creatures is laughable.  someone who can torture a dog for months and then hang it in order to kill it–and then do it dozens of times to other dogs–isn’t just committing a crime.  they’re demonstrating their utter inhumanity, and their capacity to take sick delight in the sufferings of others.  
no, vick does not deserve a second chance.  he deserves to spend the rest of his days alone, broke, and miserable.  

I hope they succeedAlso, Chicago hot dogs are almost healthy.  The put alot of veggies on them, tomatoes, pickles, ect.  

LMAOAlmost healthy, Charles?
Add mustard, ketchup, mayo, relish, and (in some places) cheese to that hot dog and you have a real Chicago hot dog.

I completely agree LurleenToo many people want to stigmatize everyone who is working themselves out of the system. What they don’t realize is that everyone can’t go to jail forever and once they have served their obligation to society then they don’t owe us anything else as a society. If people disagree with that then extend the sentences, implement the death penalty more often, be as cruel as you want too, within the law. Do it legally and let all this back-biting, political-demonizing, poor excuse for armchair vigilantism, go. Sometimes I wonder who should really be behind bars the criminals or the idiots on the street who don’t seem to have a clue how their own system of laws works and their responsibility to it but obviously somebody needs protecting.  

What do you mean by “second chance”?That he should be allowed to work in the NFL; that he should be allowed to work at any job which pays handsomely; that he should be allowed to work at a subsistence-level job only; or that he should not be allowed to work at all?
Of course he deserves a chance, unless you intend to support Vick yourself, either by taking him into your home or metaphorically through your taxes if he cannot find work.
I assume that is the view of most of his creditors lined up to recoup a few cents on the dollar from him.
By the way, Pam, what do you think about the plans of the Humane Society of the United States to use Michael Vick in campaigns against dog fighting? He’d probably be more useful in that capacity if he appeared to be someone who was getting his life back on track.
We don’t have to like him.

Send a message!Torturing and killing animals is not something to be tolerated. Do your homework. The same people who abuse animals abuse people. This is a cultural disgrace that needs to be dealt with. Most abusers “express remorse”. What else would they do?

MemoriesI’m a Tiger fan, and remember LeFlore fondly. He was a real credit to the team.
He wrote a book One in a Million: The Ron LeFlore Story, and an excellent TV movie was made, starring LeVar Burton.

Get a dog good and wet……..Get a dog good and wet and then electrocute him.
Body slam a dog to kill him.
Throw a small dog into a pen with a pit-bull to teach him how to kill.
What a guy.  

Supporters?I am shocked by those who would support Vick’s reinstatement.  

Doing fineEvery now & then the job actually makes me work, but I comment when I can or, in this case, when I think I won’t sound like the ignorant straight person.

Serving your time means having civil liberty…It doesn’t mean you get your own job back.
In the real world, lots of employers don’t hire felons. There are specific programs that recruit felons as an attempt to prevent recidivism and give people with records another shot. But it’s not necessarily the SAME job. And often those people w/ records served time for relatively minor or nonviolent offenses (most often, drug possession).
But noone is entitled to their old job back, so neither is Mr. Vick.

In Brazil, it’s illegal to own a pit bull in some partsBecause of hundreds of incidents in which pit bulls killed or maimed children and adults, they are illegal to own in certain parts of Brazil, I am told.
In my opinion, Vick didn’t do anything that white people don’t do every day.  White people race horses at breakneck speed and then if a horse breaks a leg, they shoot it dead.
In addition, thousands of perfectly harmless dogs are euthanized by (white) local animal authorities simply because there is no human willing to immediately assume the care for that animal.  Meanwhile, whites sit in trees and shoot deer, bear, wolves, rabbits and other animals for sport.
When Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot his friend, what were they out doing? Hunting animals and shooting them, of course.  Does Vice President Cheney eat the animals he kills, or does he just kill them for sport, for the thrill?
Vick’s error was to be Black and think he could do what white people do every day.  My mother told me never to believe that I could do what my white co-workers do and get away with it.  At the first sign of trouble, they’ll all turn on you and say, “The Black man did it!”  The truth of that statement will be self-evident to a white jury, no matter what other evidence is presented.
A wise old judge sat in court.
The case was long,
his judgment short:
“Why change the way it’s always been?
Convict the man of darker skin!”
Inner-City Mother Goose

I’m from DetroitSummer of 1976 featuring Ron LeFlore and Mark “the Bird” Fidrych who always talked to the ball prior to throwing the pitch…
Of course, now I am a longtime Chicago Northsider and the Cubbies have kinda rubbed of on me…

WTF?The only people who ever raced horses are white? The only people who ever went hunting are white? The only people who work at the dog pound are white? This post is utter crap. I’ve been involved with dog rescue since 1997. Animal abuse isn’t related to skin color, or even socioeconomic status. It is one of the best indicators for violence toward other people.
We – humanity, all of us – domesticated dogs thousands of years ago. We bred them to be loving, trusting, and constant companions. We created a species that relies on us, almost totally. We have an obligation to that species, because we made them what they are. And that has nothing – absolutely NOTHING – to do with the amount of melanin in your skin. What he did was reprehensible, and that also has nothing to do with the color of his skin. At a minimum, he should be barred from having any animal for the rest of his life. If I had my way, he’d spend a lot more time in prison than 5 1/2 days per death.

Not really. I really see no correlation between the euthanizing of unwanted animals and torturing them for sport. Sorry. As for hunting, the effect is usually instant. Little different than the domestic animals being killed and then processed for consumption. No torture or gambling involved. The crime of animal cruelty (torture) has nothing to do with hunting, humane euthanization (preferable to an animal starving or being TORTURED to death), Dick Cheney, or the man in the moon. Vick’s race had nothing to do with his conviction or the general public sentiment against him. If the same animal torture (electrocution, dismemberment, body slam) had been perpetrated by a Caucasian the effect would be the same. It was what it was. Not everything is racially motivated and not every white person is a bigot.  

That’s okay, sometimes we just make inexplicably poor choices.

Of course, now I am a longtime Chicago Northsider and the Cubbies have kinda rubbed of on me…

Express remorse and make millions?Well, should we let Bernie Madoff out and send him to Goldman Sachs?
Hans Frank expressed remorse for annhilating the Jews of Poland, should we have given him a job in post war Germany?
No, No, No…Michael Vick gets a pass because using dogs to slaughter each other and slaughtering poor performers himself is a “man thing”

Reinstatement is in the league’s interestIt’s a double edged sword for Vick. If it hadn’t been Michael Vick, I doubt that the feds would have pursued him with the energy they used. I don’t know if the participants in this blog are familiar with football, but this man was a face of the NFL and is arguably one of the most famous collegiate football players of all time. His fall was as far as possible, and indeed, farther than players accused of violence against actual human beings. Therefore, if he does make a comeback, his “redemption” would be one of the biggest stories in the NFL for years. And I am sure Commissioner Goodell is taking that into account. The risk is great for any team that signs him, but the reward potential for that team is huge if that electrifiying talent still remains. I am not advocating Vick’s return to the NFL or professional football. But I can’t be a loud voice against it. He did his time.  He is bankrupt. He did more time than Ray Lewis did for pleading guilty to obstructing justice in a double murder or more time than Donte Stallworth will for killing a man. I love dogs. But they are dogs. And until the NFL standards for murder of a human and a dog are the same, I don’t think they have a good reason to keep him out of the league.  

Another apologist.So here we go with the comparisons. Lets minimize Vick’s crime because other individuals did not sufficiently “pay” for theirs. Obstruction of justice, murder,and animal torture each have their penalties, both State and Federal. Vick made several mistakes which are not only illegal, but incredibly stupid. Although they are ONLY dogs, most people have a particular sensitivity to their torture and cruel destruction. It is a sensitivity which is particular to the innocent and helpless, i.e. children, the handicapped, the elderly, the weak, and animals. Vick had a great life and a wonderful talent. He foolishly involved himself in a gruesome, cruel, reprehensible “hobby” about which the American public has absolutely no tolerance. Rightly so. Was he made an example of? Probably. Why? Because he was a role model for many and he was a high profile criminal participating not just in killing animals, but their prolonged torture. You may find that dogs are just dogs and that is fine. Still, their violent torture cannot be minimized nor its effect and influence negated. What a shame Vick involved himself in such a vile “hobby”. Look what it did for his career. Too bad he lacked the empathy, compassion, or the public relations savvy to have anticipated the public’s outrage at his crime. It is quite clear you “love dogs”. Please stay away from mine.  

just….wow

Vick’s error was to be Black and think he could do what white people do every day.

i never in my wildest imagination thought that there would be some way to play a race card in this issue.    

No. It isn’t a matter of whether killing animals means more or less than betting on your sport.
It is a matter of the sport protecting itself. In pretty much all sports nowadays, betting on the sport by an active athlete, coach, manager results in an automatic death sentence. The moment a sport tolerates participants betting on it, it is FINISHED as a sport. One of the fundamental principles of sport is that the result is not known. NOT FIXED. There have been pro sports leagues have been destroyed by failure to act against betting / match fixing. Once fans do not trust the results, once fans start wondering whether the results had anything to do with the players / coaches / managers betting habits, the sport is utterly finished.
The “life” that would have been lost if baseball had tolerated Rose would have been baseball.

Are you a vegetarian?Meat eaters also kill animals. Given the way most industrially farmed meat is raised, they also torture animals.

And what happened to innocent until proven guilty?It has not been proven that Vick abuses people.

Roids are not the same as Rose’s bettingAT ALL. Using steroids, amphetamines, a corked bat, tampering with the ball with a foreign substance, all this acts are done by the player to try to help the team WIN. Athletes have tried to cheat, and cheated, at sport, since the first humans raced against each other in a footrace. Look in any sport, all throughout history, athletes have ALWAYS tried to cheat, to get an “unfair” advantage. TO WIN. Whether roids, amphetamines, EPO, advanced swimsuits, advanced speedskates, altitude training, altitude training via altitude tents, etc the goal is to win.
A player, coach, manager betting on his own sport does no such thing. A player, coach, manager betting on his own sport might very well DELIBERATELY try to LOSE.
When players, or even coaches or managers cheat to try to win, the end result of what is going to happen is that everyone is trying to win, the final result of the sporting event is still undetermined.
When players, or coaches / managers bet on their own sport, the very concept of the final result being undetermined is called into question: match-fixing. Once a sport gets tarred with match-fixing accusations it is utterly, completely finished.
Also, since you want all steroid using MLB players banned for life, do you also want all amphetamine using MLB players banned for life? Furthermore, if you are looking at banning roided up players, you should start by looking at the NFL.

Why do you have a particular sensitivity to dogs?Why not pigs? Why not cows? Why not chickens?
Are you concerned about the millions of pigs, cows, chickens that are tortured and killed daily by meat eaters to satisfy their gluttony?
Are you advocating that the NFL ban all meat eaters? Or at least ban the meat eaters who do not eat meat that is raised in humane conditions?

The domestic animalsbeing “processed” for consumption are often raised in horrendous conditions. Packed into extremely cramped and filthy spaces. Pumped full of antibiotics because if not, raising so many of them in such cramped and filthy conditions would result in massive outbreaks of disease. Pumped full of steroids to force quick growth.  

Umm…what?Black people don’t hunt or race horses or work at the animal shelters?
Proof, please.

Pump a cow, a pig, a chickenfull of hormones to force fast growth.
Lock in up in filthy, cramped spaces. To the point that it is standing in it’s own shit.
Pump it full of antiobiotics otherwise it would have died from disease from the conditions it is put in.
Kill it.
Eat it.
Body slam a piglet to kill it. Prod animals with electric prods etc for fun.

So….…if one is a meat-eater, they have no right whatsoever to speak out about cruel and inhumane treatment of animals?
I’m just asking here.
If you could provide some actual proof of your assertion that meat-eaters are “gluttons”, that’d be nice too.

Vick is scumBut, animal loving meat eaters who eat industrially farmed meat, who turn a blind eye to how the pig, the cow, the chicken they are eating was raised, are also scum.

Of course they should speak out about cruel and inhumane treatmentof animals.
They should start with themselves. They should start with their own behaviour. They should start by asking how the meat they eat is raised. They should stop eating industrially farmed meat.

Focus and be thankful…….. Instead of being pleased that Vick’s conviction placed this issue to the forefront of public attention and possibly could offer a platform from which to fight such activity, you are getting lost in your own agenda. Learn to take one battle at a time, focus, and stay on subject. The humane treatment of all animals is the goal, but to suggest that Vick’s conviction was not a victory for animal rights is to ignore great victory.  

Well, speaking specifically about MLBI didn’t say that I wanted all roided players banned for life; they don’t even do that for the Olympic Games. Particular to MLB (and I blame this on management and Bud Selig more than anything) MLB did nothing but turn the other way as record after record after record fell.
Trust me, I know that that’s miles away from what Pete Rose did or even what the New England Patriots did in their spying or in various poit shaving scandals. I wish that MLB had done more with roided players before it became an epidemic, that’s all.
And look at the NFL, sure, although I think the roid policies in the NFL were far more stringent than those for MLB (not that it stopd players from using them.)  

Over Pro Sports for a long timeHave to say never been much for pro sports after it seems to give idiots like Vick more of a venue and money for their bad behavior.  The league doesn’t care as long as they get ticket and revenues from advertising sales.
Vick is a horrible human being and piece of crap…seriously.  The NFL commish, just as bad for allowing him back. Sort of to say, its ok Mike just don’t get caught.
Lame as hell

Give me a break.You’re assuming that everyone who is speaking out against Michael Vick and isn’t you = automatically a gluttonous consumer of factory-farmed meats.  You’re also assuming that everyone who eats meat only eats factory-farmed meats, and making the veiled assertion that if you eat meat then you’re automatically party to cruelty to animals.
Both of these are bogus assumptions with little basis in fact…it also begs the question “what about you and your wanton cruelty to vegetables?”
And I’m still waiting for you to back up your assertion that meat-eaters are gluttons.  Please note that I am not holding my breath.

Sensitivity to all animals.You are typical of those lost in their ideology. I never said I had no interest in pigs, chickens, cows, or any other mistreated critter. We are talking about one victory here and that particular victory involved dogs. Instead of recognizing that we have fairly similar views and rejoicing in the attention brought to the inhumane and vile crime of dog fighting (torture) by the Vick conviction you are being a scold because I did not mention every other form of animal cruelty. Again – PAY ATTENTION!

Oh good lordMaybe this relatively anonymous forum lends itself to melodramatics, but great googly moogly. I will stay away from your dogs, unless you live somewhere along the Orange Line in Arlington, Virginia. In that case, I could be anywhere around them and you. If you think I’m an apologist for Michael Vick, whom I think is sociopathic at worst and a moron at the best, then so be it. I was trying to put things from a league perspective, not that of an overly devoted animal lover. The odds are good that Michael Vick will get a job. It will not be the job he had at the level he had, but he will get one. And right now, that’s the way the NFL works. If you want to make sure Vick is punished sufficiently, then get all your friends to write letters to Virginia Tech alumni to get them to stop donating until he’s taken out their hall of fame. Organize a boycott of NFL sponsors. That’s what will get the NFL to permanently ban him. Nothing else. The overly enthusiastic dog lovers will not get anywhere because there are not enough of you. His conviction was a victory for the power of the feds to stop criminal enterprises. He got in trouble for illegal gambling and racketeering. The fact he drowned dogs was the hook to get the public to go along with the conviction.  

By the wayOnly one team has even admitted taking a look at him, the Baltimore Ravens. As a football fan, I find that extremely amusing. gerdislouise, the Ravens GM, Ozzie Newsome, is a good, smart community minded GM. So are the Ravens’ owners. Want to take a stand? Start a letter writing campaign to them and get the Baltimore area animal welfare leagues involved. It will be especially helpful if you are in the Ravens’ market, or in an AFC North market, but not necessary. They will listen.  

Here’s the cardYou must not remember the immediate days after his indictment. He had MASSIVE support in certain segments of the black community.  

And to tie it back…Vick is being “mentored” by Tony Dungy, a league BMOC, but a man I gather is not a favorite of many of the readers of this blog.  

Try looking at an NFL safety, linebackerpass rushing DE with his shirt off, and in shorts.
Tell me with a straight face that you think they are most of them clean.
Also, I still don’t see why people only focus on steroids. Amphetamines is just as illegal. Amphetamine use was for a long time SOP among MLB players. Hank Aaron, for example, has admitted that he used amphetamines.

Oh, for god’s sake, is cruel slaughter a guy thing for gay men too?The dogs ripped less vcious dogs apart.
If they didn’t, Vick slaughtered them.
He got arrested, happens in small towns in New York periodically. There was a raid near here a year ago that didn’t involve NFL players.
He got arrested because he was involved in a serious, vicious set of crimes. Hundreds of them in fact.
You want him back in the NFL? Let’s forgive and bring back a few of our GOP friends who had to leave congress who have remorse for simple bribery.  

The assumption that most meat eatersdo eat factory farmed meat has little basis in fact?
Really?
And no, I’m not making the assumption that all meat eaters are party to cruelty to animals. I’m making the assumption that meat eaters who eat ANY factory farmed meat, ARE party to the torture and killing of animals.

This is almost too easy.And no, I’m not making the assumption that all meat eaters are party to cruelty to animals.
You are making the blanket assumption that anyone who isn’t you and therefore may be a meat-eater is automatically somebody who eats factory-farmed meat–and thus, an automatic party to animal cruelty.
Also, please re-read what I posted. I said “you’re also assuming that everyone who eats meat only eats factory-farmed meats…”  THAT has little basis in fact.
I ask again:  What about you and your wanton cruelty to vegetables?