!!!!omg, i saw this & thought it was an ADBUSTERS parody!!!
i ***cannot*** believe this got the greenlight!!!!

This feminist is appalledand will boycott Burger King…
Hope Rachel picks this up…

Fantastic marketing ideaOnce you get over the puerile snickering in the ad, it’s actually a bloody brilliant marketing ploy.
BK deliberately makes an ad so over-the-top it’s guaranteed to raise a ruckus, then quietly leaks it online. As the outrage spreads around the Interwebs, the ad spreads with it. BK thus gets wide exposure (as it were) for its product for a fraction of the cost of a traditional ad campaign.
After all, as any PR person will tell you, there is no such thing as bad publicity. What do you want to bet that the person behind this ad received not a dressing-down, but a bonus and a promotion?

It is anti-feminist, anti-woman, and simply disgustingenough said.

Agreed on the anti feminist

What are the odds that Burger King execs appealed to men with a similar ad?

It would take more than 7″….but I digress.
Agreed with the above, it is a brilliant marketing ploy that will only increase in value with the attention it gets.
As for the

subtle play on frat boy humor.

 The world is full of them and they never seem to grow up…some even end up as President and we saw what a disaster that was.

…I saw this ad a week or so ago and just thought it was tacky and tasteless. Not that I ever eat Burger King anyway, but this doesn’t make me more eager.
That said, maybe they should run a companion ad that shows a guy holding two hamburger buns next to each other and sticking his tongue out.

You bet it makes me want to do business with BKNot!
Dena
P.S. BTW, who came up with the ad campaign. Beavis and Butt-head?

Hardees tried to out gross themWith a little more male centric ad here.

If this is only set for Singapore…why is the woman in the ad so obviously European?

Oy VeyTo quote Dr. Silverstein, my College Physics Professor, “Does this pass the So What test?”  I saw this ad last week just yawned.  
As a Feminist, a women, a lesbian, add any other title you wish but where is the outrage when ads make men look like oafish gorillas or any other parody on the world we live in.
With all the crap going on in the world today who cares about this ad (that quite frankly made me snicker when I saw it).
I’m going to keep my outrage focused on real issues of real importance…
Marriage Equality
Ending DOMA
Ending DADT
Repealing the Patriot Act
Regaining our Civil Liberties
This ad? Not so much.

The fast food industryprovides the rock-bottom worst we get, nutritionally and gustatorially.  Why expect their ads to be any better?  

Because in Asia, white (blonde) models are popularIn Singapore, in Malaysia, a very large and increasing number of ads use white blonde models. This is true both for male and female models, but especially true for female models. The models are often from Russia or some other Eastern European country.

?To me, it looks more “anti-blowup doll”.  

Anti-gay adsIn German TV Burger King had an ad about sending sissies to a camp to become real men. Search for mancademy on YouTube. It’s based on the US “I Am Man” spots.

Ah, the capitalist free-market paradise of Singapore ……This is the place where they maintain decency and morality by beating you in public with a four foot long rattan cane for chewing gum.  

Real DollThe model in the ad is made up to look uncannily like Real Doll.
For the uninitiated, Real Doll is a life-like, uber-expensive blow-up doll fancied my het men who, for whatever deep-seated psychological reason(s), can’t function with a biological partner.
My guess is, this wasn’t an accident on BK’s part.
Check out the BBC documentary called “Love Me, Love My Doll” on BBC-In Demand. BBC always has the most cutting edge and fascinating documentaries. There’s actually a whole subculture and industry around people who live their lives with rubber partners. These guys pay upwards of $10,000 for a race, height, weight, hair color-specific doll.
We were talking about this ad at work the other day and everyone agreed, the model looks just like Real Doll. It’s most curious.

Love Me, Love My DollThat was the weirdest documentary I’ve ever seen but I could not stop watching it.  It was too bizarre to turn off.
When that guy showed the different tongues for his Real Doll and started Kissing the doll it blew my mind.
and yes, she does kinda look like a Real Doll in that ad.

Theirs a reason the term ‘feminazi’ got so popularGetting upset over something like this just makes you look whiny. Yes its immature, but so are a large portion of fast food customers. Yes its about a chick giving a blowjob, it sells better than a joke about a man giving a BJ. Their are women who give blowjobs, quite alot actually, whats so horrible and offensive about making a joke about it? Hell in America alot of the commercials are about a smart wife introducing her dumb husband to the helpful new product even someone as foolish as him can use.
Its playing on stereotypes and has no basis in reality, but thats because its a JOKE.
Maybe its just the trailer park upbringing but I dont think anything should be off limits for a joke. If you find this offensive you’d faint hearing the racist, sexist and dead baby jokes we passed around school.

I guess I’m trying to figure out……what everyone is so upset about here?  I am suddenly reminded of all the things you hear people say about blowjobs — that no woman ever enjoyed doing that, that it requires a posture of “submission” that women find appalling, dicks are disgusting, men are pigs, and all that like that there.
Being a Kinsey Sixer myself, I wouldn’t know — my blowjob experiences have all been with men, who obviously don’t have the same set of hangups about the male organ.  Take all the hysterical politics out of it, and it’s an extremely pleasurable act, nothing more — for the giver as well as the receiver, I’ll point out also.
So I’ll ask — is it just the male-female blowjob that pisses everybody off so much, or is any sex involving a man in general?  (Another line I hear bandied about now and then is how every act of any kind of penetrative sex is an act of violence.  ::eye roll:: and please.)  That quote from Womanist Musings is especially obnoxious — the image and language here implies “choke on it, bitch?”  Where?  (Hint — it doesn’t — not at all.)  Again — it’s a blowjob we’re talking about — and just because the writer of these words doesn’t like it, doesn’t mean that every woman (or every man) who ever sucked a dick was grudgingly, with great disgust, in some heinous betrayal of his or her gender and or place in society, performing a service.  Dick-sucking doesn’t need to be political.
Don’t make me start making “smelly fish” jokes.  But I could — it would be the same damn thing — and as “men are disgusting” seems to be allowed here this morning, I will assume fair is fair.
– Scott
(PS — I read the Blend every day and enjoy the conversations here and I think this may be my first-ever post, unfortunately, but that quote from Womanist Musings was just a little too much for me to let pass without comment.  Blowjobs are a sex act.  They’re fun.  Get over it.)

This reminds me of the Quiznos adThis reminds me of the Quiznos ad with “Scott” and the Torpedo sandwich.  The original version of the commercial had the oven saying, “Put it in me, Scott.”  ”I won’t do that again, it burned!”  ”We both enjoyed that, Scott”.  
Needless to say, it was a brilliant commercial.
BUT, it had gay and sexual overtones, so within a week, a recut version of the commercial appeared with all the humorous value of the commercial gone.  
Why did it go away so quickly?  T3h Gay, of course.  But, because this BK ad has a woman, it’s suddenly ok according to BK?  
I call BS!

I never thought about it but that makes senseA real model you have to pay every time she comes in, with a real doll you just set her up for a shot, she stays perfectly still in position until you have a picture that looks human, then put her back in the closet until the next shoot.  

thank goodness other people can take a joke…When I read this post I was amazed at how people can get so worked up over such a small thing, a small thing meant to be a joke.
I’m just glad some other people commented on the fact.  

Agreed. Do NOT make it a big fussJust complain, complain, conplain, and get it pulled. This is a ‘kick the liberal anthill’ style of viral advertising. We do their screaming so they don’t have to.

I think your guess is correctNo women were involved in the creation or approval of this ad. Beyond sexist, it’s in terrible taste for a national advertiser.  

That SucksThat blows.
Don’t shove it down my throat.
I got screwed.
I don’t bend over for no one.
You’re a douchebag.
You’re a pussy.
(etc.)
Fascinating how so many of our negative expressions involve being the “receptive” partner in sex.   Since HET MEN have controlled language for so long, their own fear/fascination with being poked by a weenie in either end has bled into our collective vernacular.
At the heart of it, don’t all of these sayings appear anti-woman and anti-gay?

I’ve contacted Burger King in the pastI spoke with their marketing director on the phone about another sexist ad a few years ago. That ad featured a woman unbuttoning her blouse in an office situation, after spilling catsup on it.
The female marketing director told me (paraphrasing), “You don’t understand the ad because you’re not part of the demographic we’re trying to reach.”
Then, she explained to me how Burger King is trying to appeal to young men because that is demographic that they’ve identified as a typical BK customer.
I told her that a smart marketing approach would be to appeal to the demographic groups who ARE NOT Burger King customers. But, BK thinks they have lost young mothers and older folks to McDonalds and it isn’t worth the effort to appeal to them.
I’ve been avoiding Burger King for years now. I’m surprised it took them going this far before anyone else complained.

Youre’ wrongMost of their marketing and corporate communications people are women.
Most ad agencies are run by men. Most corporate marketing people are now women.

and scott was HOTthose commercials really surprised me.  it definitely had gay overtones…a male-voiced oven talking “dirty” to the sexy male quizno’s employee, and encouraging him to talk “dirty” in response?  amazing.  but what was also neat about it is that the implications were so subtle, funny, and more creepy than arousing.  
i think this is crass and tasteless, but the image of food-as-penis been has with us for a long time.  who hasn’t seen someone fellating a banana, corndog, or beer bottle as a joke?  it’s old and stupid, but people still do it or make references to it.  i actually think some of BK’s ads with “the king” lurking around are pretty funny.  they know how to be witty and clever without being crass, but it all out the window with this ad.
yes, it’s supposed to appeal to frat boys who laugh about blowjobs, and who generally think that giving blowjobs makes you a bitch or a fag.  if this isn’t the case, then i’d expect to see a series of these ads featuring different people, including men.  preferably really hot ones like scott.    

Not so much “food as penis”It is “woman as blow up doll” that people find offensive.
As a guy who has worked in adverstising and marketing for a long time, I can tell you that this concept could work if it were executed differently.
For example, if the “blow up doll” woman were replaced with Kathy Griffin or Margaret Cho, it would have a whole new meaning. It would be hilarious and have an irony to it that almost everyone would get.
Kathy Griffin wiping white sauce off of her face has a very different impact than some sexy young model doing the exact same thing.
They could have used an older woman with a good comedic “look” rather than a known star, too.
I’ve been in the war rooms when these things have been discussed. You can bet Burger King discissed all of the sexist aspects and ran with it anyway.

It’s the popular heterosexualist modelof what a blowjob is all about — pleasure for the man without any need to worry about the woman’s needs.  Oral sex between men, especially (but not exclusively) between gay men is configured differently because…well, it’s much more a part of the gay male awareness that a lot of us love cock.  Now, there are women who really like giving blowjobs, whether it’s the sense of control, the ability to give pleasure, etc.  But the woman in the BK ad really doesn’t look she’s looking forward to exerting her erotic control over that burger — she looks like it’s about to be stuffed in her face and she’s not sure what she thinks about that.  (Again, there’s not something necessarily wrong with an individual person enjoying being in that position — but in a mass-distribution format, it’s just reinforcement of a sexist trope in the hetero-supremacist lexicon.)

Another better restaurant should take this ad, and make a parody of it.FIRST you have to buy me dinner at BRAND X restaurant.
or they could do a VERY obvious Gay leather submissive with this sandwich shoved in his face, trust me it’ll be GONE in seconds.
Fight FIRE with FIRE.

I Love Peniseshttp://thingsthatlooklikecockn…
The only thing that irritates me is that BK didn’t publish a concurrently running ad with a male figure on the right side of the frame too.
Personally, I love penises. Can’t get enough of them. I wish they were everywhere, and I smile whenever I see pictures of the Washington Monument and the Space Needle.
I know, I know. Its fashionable to hate men, and what is the ultimate symbol of male-ness other than a penis? Both the fundamentalist craies that think that sex of any kind of sex is bad make strange bedfellows with the equally nutty factious that thinks that a woman’s equality is somehow endangered by the very existence of men. So what do you make of this? I fully support women’s equality, AND I love cock!
I am unapologetic in my fundamental belief that penises make me very happy.
That said, the girl does look like a blow-up doll. She also has a very surprised, even shocked expression, which is quite sad because 7 inches is really quite average. I’m not at all convinced she knows what she is doing here. I would probably ask her to step aside while I get to work on that seven incher.  

That would be geniusYou would have to get the right male actor to do it.
Someone like Alec Baldwin could get away with it.
Jack in the Box could hire Baldwin to sit in a chair while Jack shoves a huge sandwich in his face, getting sauce all over his cheeks.
Everyone would talk about it for years.

something like this   

I find it facinatingthat had the model been male and this appeared in an LGBT publication, no one would have cared. Indeed, BK would probably have gotten praise for doing an ad obviously geared toward gay men.
Its just one of those situations where changing gender totally changes the context of the ad.

FOFLMAO!You sir, are a genius. ^5^!!!

A bunch of jeering football players around this woman would be effectiveOr it could be hillarious saying do this on your Husband’s Birthday…then show a BK Birthday Party ad with it.

Had it been a YOUNG BLOND MALEThe shit would have hit the fan!
You don’t mess with young manhood like this.

Trust me. Something like this would put them out of business.

That. Is. Hot, Petey

You realize the biggest difference hereIs that the models you’ve used are mature.
The female model in the BK ad looks to be about 19 or 20. That’s typical.
If you use males models that are the same age as the one in the BK ad, you’ll be in trouble.
But, your choice of models is very telling. Why didn’t you use models that look like young boys?
Young girls = hot and sexy
Young boys = gay pedophiles

ExcellentHis mouth needs to be open a bit more, though. I like his confident expression. This man has seen alot of cocks in his lifetime, and seems comfortable with a seven incher

here’s one with a football team around woman   http://img.villagephotos.com/p…

this pschologically makes the woman’s expression frightened

Maybe the harshet parodyPut mascarra running tears  

harshest

You would be good to have in a marketing meetingTypically, everyone sits around the table and shouts out all of these kinds of things when they come to mind.
Then, everyone would debate whether or not the woman being frightened is a good thing or a bad thing.
By the time an ad runs, absolutely everything has been discussed. There aren’t any surprises in this business.
Also, someone would say something like:
“Let’s run this in Singapore and see what happens. If nobody complains, we can try it here in the U.S.”

No…A black eye and bloody nose.

my version 

and Burger King don’t get me startedWe can add a Down’s syndrome woman, or a toddler

Yes, “their” is a reason that “feminazi” got so popular.Men.

Can we assume that the sandwich is actually only four inches long?

Oh, straight boys always lieThey bank on the idea that a woman probably has not seen very many penises, and therefore will believe that it si larger than it is. Of course, they are also assuming that women are too stupid to be able to measure accurately.
I think maybe the women just play along with this, for fear that the experience will be made even worse if he loses his erection when she corrects him on how big his penis actually is.
Gay men cannot get away with that shit. Even a virgin has obviously seen at least one other penis before he loses his cherry. Besides, gay men gossip like mad, and after you’ve gotten laid once in any given town, everyone in that town knows how big your dick really is within an hour. So lying about it or insisting that four is really seven is a total waste of time.
Now, what I want to see is a Subway ad, with Jared on one side and the caption reading, “only SEVEN? We’ve got a FOOT-LONG, baby!”

With all the sandwich funI’m just bursting inside to know what Liss (ShakesSis) would have to say about this.  She just loves the Ass-vertising.

Theyz a reson teh term Grammarnazi got populaar 2women.
What? makes as much sense as your reason.

Golly, looks like someone can’t take a joke.Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!11!!!

They lie about how tall they are, tooI am 5′-10″ — almost 5′-11″ and I can’t tell you how many straight guys who I look in the eye or who are a little bit shorter than me will insist that they are 6 feet tall.
I guess the 6 foot mark is some kind of straight boy accomplishment. And, they get very defensive if you challenge them on it.
“I’m six feet tall.”
“You can’t be, because you’re shorter than me and I’m only 5′-10″.”
“I am not shorter than you!”
“Uh, yes you are. Look how the tip of my nose hits you between the eyes.”
I guess at that point I should ask to compare dick size.

Since Burger King insists that their customers “have it your way”I think an appropriate response would be for folks to go to company-owned locations (not franchises); order their Penis Burgers specifying “please flame broil it at least five minutes, and stick a fork in it to make sure it’s done”; then when it is presented, scream, “My God! That’s disgusting”; then demand your money back.

It would do no goodA man who is full of shit to the point where he can suggest that someone who can see the top of his head ia actually shorter than he is going to pretend that his penis is larger than anyone else’s too.
The real problem is actually that straight women let them get away with this shit. Maybe because they do not want to rupture his fragile ego and make his dick wilt, thereby ruining her fun for the evening.
It is amazing how hung up (pun very much intended) on their own size. I hear fundie xtians doing thsi all the time too. I remember once as a child someone asking me how tall I thought a man was, and I said, “he looks like he’s six feet even” The guy i was speaking to said, “That’s impossible. Only Jesus was exactly six feet tall. Everyone else is either 5’11″ or 6’1″, but nobody can be exactly 6′ besides Jesus”.
Why it is that exactly 6 is so magical, I have no idea. After all, we’re the only country on earth that doesn’t use the metric system, so to anyone outside the US, it’s probably not a nice round number like 6.0 feet, and would therefore be less impressive to the gullible who think that only nice round numbers are admirable, and everything else is in some way flawed.
I wonder what Jesus’ dick size was. Perhaps the fundies think maybe he is the only person with a perfect 10 inch penis.

Their food tastes nasty to me, anyway……and this the last straw in the soda for me, as well.
No BK for me.

Keep in mind that it was Rush Limabugh who popularised feminaziand he did so to get rid of the influence of those pesky feminist liberals who supported, amongst other things, gay rights….

I do not like the term ‘femininazi’There are, however, people who get carried away with things.
To offer an example, in one of my classes, we have been assigned a group project on encouraging people to use condoms. When asked to choose a target population, I suggested MSMs 30-50 years of age. Demographically, this is where the majority of new infections take place each year, and that’s worldwide.
A fellow group member went ballistic, declaring that gay men who get HIV in their 30′s and 40′s are ‘fucking idiots’ and ‘how much money can you throw down a hole on people that lived thru the 80′s and should know better?’.
This, in front of the entire class. Zero empathy that lives are being lost. No compassion at all. Why? because she cannot feel sympathy for older men unless they are senior citizens.
The scary thing? This is a medical school, and this woman will be charged with developing healthcare interventions at some point in her career. She reminds me alot of the Secretary of HEW under Reagan. Who cares as long as its fags who are dying, right?
And she justifies it all in the name of feminism. She’s rather do widespread testing on populations that are at virtually no risk, such as suburban soccer moms. Those lives are valuable to her. They have vaginas.
Anyone with a penis? She can feel empathy only if they are very young or very old.
And that is sociopathic in the extreme. If she ever comes into political power, she could kill millions with that attitude. To her, some lives are valuable, some are not.
To me, all lives are valuable. The real goal of feminism ought not to be ‘lets get revenge on the menfolk, even if that means attacking fags who never did anything to us’. It should be, let’s achieve gender parity-real equality-where neither gender should have reason to fear the other.”

The real goal of feminismis not revenge on the menfolk.
And most feminists know that.

“Loosen up, Girls!”It’s “just a JOKE!!”
Ummm- NOT.
Reaching for a fresh can of patented “Louise’s Homemade Red Hot Whoop-Ass” in three… two… one…

Agreed, butthere are a few sociopathic individuals on the fringe of things that will use anything as a smokescreen for their insanity. This lady I described in my class? She has openly stated that she does not consider the lives of the demographic that is statistically most at risk for HIV infection to be worth saving. And her justification for that declaration is couched in rhetoric, to make it look like its somehow justified.
It isn’t. Every life is valuable, even the lives of 40 year old men. And if that’s the demographic group at the most risk for HIV infection, then there should be interventions designed to protect their health. Even if that is inconvenient for her rhetoric.
The feminism thing also perplexes me for one other reason. Women make up the majority of all humans on the planet-51%-and enjoy significant biological advantages over men. They live longer-ALOT longer in some places-and are at significantly lower risk for HIV. So the question is, why is it, with what seems to be the upper hand dealt to you my Mother Nature, that you ever allowed yourselves to get put into second place society-wise to begin with?
If nothing else, you outnumber us. If you really wanted to, you could take over any time you wanted to. Just make a concerted effort to refuse second-class status. You don,t even need men’s help to do that, your numbers are great enough you could do it without us.
So, the question I have is-is feminism more a function of liberating yourselves from us-or of liberating yourselves from that mentality that you have to accept second class status? In which case, aren’t you your own worst enemy-and not men?
If the women of the Arab world tomorrow ripped those burkas off and stormed the Parliaments of their governments and announced they were taking over, they could. You can’t really use the physical strength argument-this isn’t Clan of the Cave Bear times, and most of the weapons used in combat are not strength-weapons. No matter how big your muscles are, a gun fires the same.
So what are you waiting for, and why are you whining at us to liberate you? Shouldn’t you just go out there and liberate yourself?

John McCain is now head of BK Marketing?Remember last year when he took Cindy to the Sturgis Bike Week festivities?
Oh, good times, good times!!
Let’s see- oh, all harmless fun and nothing even SLIGHTLY demeaning to women:
1. Pickle Licking Contest
2. Topless Contest
3. Wet T-shirt contest
4. Weiner Bite Contest
5. Bikini Beauty Contest
Really, why would any girl woman OBJECT to a little innocent objectification, anyways?  

wow.I, I, I am speechless and the underlying misogyny present there.
To the point is has overwhelmed my ability to reason properly.

Chicks like you have no sense of humor.

One of my favorite movie quotes…One day they’ll drain Victoria Park lake. And you know what they’ll find? What glorious remnants of the Second World War? Babies, that’s what. Bullets and dead babies. Men! Mum’s right. They stay kids all their fucking lives. And they end up heroes – or monsters. Either way they win. Women have to grow up. If they stay children, they become victims.  
– Rose’s Abortion Story, The Krays, 1990

YeahDon’t forget; I hate all men too- gotta remember to tell Charlie that in the morning!
.

I usually just sighSo the women of the Arab world just submit out of indolence and cowardice?
Is that what the gay men in Fort Worth did?
I’ll let this go; I’ve been appalled by the misogyny that I’ve seen upon occasion from some of our gay brothers….

Having seen the way you misrepresentedthe words of a couple of Blend posters in a previous thread, I think I will reserve the right to look with extreme skepticism at your characterization of the “lady” in your class and of her views.
Regarding your analysis of female oppression worldwide and how to overcome it – I do believe we have a troll. And I don’t toss that word around casually.

…why are you whining at us to liberate you?

If some woman has been asking you recently to liberate her, she probably was referring to being locked up in that secret room in your basement.

I think you missed the sarcasm in thatTry re-reading it. Slowly.
I’m not going to use value-judgment laden terms like ‘cowardice’ or ‘indolence’. Nice try, but ‘m not falling for such an obvious trap.
I do want to talk about the culture of victimhood, though. Women do have the advantage over men-biologically, you live longer. You’re susceptible to fewer diseases. You outnumber us-probably because you enjoy a number of health advantages. Your brains are just as sharp as ours, and there really is no excuse as to why you sjhould occupy any lesser status than we enjoy. Looking at it in objective terms, we couldn’t put you in second place or keep you there without your complicity.
Now, that 51% figure is across all age groups-it actually tarts out as 50/50 at birth. Our increased mortality means your share of the population pie gets bigger the older you get, because we die off at much younger ages. So by the time we get to voting age, your share of the electorate is greater than ours. Further, since mostt under-35′s do not vote, you have a huge slice of the electoral pie by the time you get to the age where people start voting regularly.
So why don’t you vote for women? You get pissed off when we don’t, but let’s face it-if there were two candidates, one male, one female, and all the men voted for the guy and all the women voted for the lady-the lady would win. Because there’s more of you than us. Its simple math.
The real misogyny is your own. Liberate yourself.

Why, because suggesting that you take responsibility for your own rights is being a troll?You know, responsibility used to be a virtue. Now, I guess blame is.

Androcentrism is practiced by both gendersThat’s always been recognized as a major part of the problem and it is one of the first things you’ll learn when studying sexism in an academic setting.
The best way to illustrate this is to examine the absolute patriarchy that existed in Britian under Queen Victoria.
Here is what she had to say about feminism:
“I am most anxious to enlist everyone who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of ‘Women’s Rights’, with all its attendant horrors, on which her poor feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feelings and propriety. Feminists ought to get a good whipping. Were woman to ‘unsex’ themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings and would surely perish without male protection.”
- Queen Victoria
It is easy to say that Queen Victoria could have simply put an end to the patriarchy. But, she was a product of her society and her time. She represented tradition and supported male authority over women and children.

Dave, very respectfully, give overYou’ve not a clue about what you are talking about and you are sinking ever deeper into the mire.
So, I am asking very politely, please don’t let your ignorance about the condition of women become any more evident than it is.
I would continue the debate with you, but with each post you make the probability of a Lesbian uprising against gay male leadership in the LGBT more probable on the part of my sisters, and though I’ve seen and heard views like yours frequently over the years from such outstanding organisations such as the Catholic Church in Spain when they supported the coup or the UDF in Ulster(as much as I loathe the IRA I do have to appreciate that they had gender equality in the ranks of their murderers) many of my sisters are less inured to it and less likely to respond without escalating.

Oh, and one more thingYou know, exactly 40 years to the day, the same thing that happened in Ft Worth happened in NYC. With a very different reaction from the bar patrons.
Had the customers at the bar in Ft Worth did what the bar patrons at the Stonewall Inn did, the cops would not be bragging about it right now.
And you know what? If I were in that bar, I can’t say which one I would have done. I can’t really say whether I would have been brave enough to fight back. Maybe I would have, maybe I would have chickened out. Maybe I’d have been the only one to fight back-which instantly changes your status from change agent to crazy person. Maybe the whole bar would have joined in, and then the rest of the gay district.
Who can say?
I can say this. Were I in Ft Worth that night, and the cops walked in and started  cracking heads-I sincerely wish that somehow I would have found the courage to fight back. And I wish the rest of the bar would have found that same courage.
Larry Kramer says today’s gays are tragic, because we don’t fight back anymore. Take that a step further-nobody, not just the gays, fights back anymore. The government, properly functioning, should be intimidated by the electorate-and yet, who was intimidated when Bush passed the Patriot Act? Was anybody out on the streets?
Well, somebody has to.  

Ad hominemIf you can’t attack the logic of my arguments, you can always just turn it into a personal attack against me. And then raise the spectre of a lesbian revolt against the gay male leaders of the GLBT movement.
Excuse me… what gay male leadership? What would you revolt against? We have no leaders. Also, of the people that call themselves our leaders… there’s as many women as there are men. Unless yoU,re gonna overthrow the Lesbian establishment too.
Try logic and reason. They’re fun, and I know you can do it, because I’ve seen you produce sound logical arguments several times int he past. I’m not afraid to have my ideas examined, and if they’re bullshit, then show me where the fault lies in them.

Ok, I am with you on this one.Radicalism died out of the community and with it our only chance for equality.
Lets you and I make a deal, since we agree on this:
We tirelessly agitate and put our butts out on the line for our rights.

Social issue, not a gender issueThat’s the thing that many people have difficultly grasping.
Feminists fight against androcentrism and patriarchal institutions — not men in general.
Many men are feminists, too.  

So why is itso crazy when I say that women have to kick their own androcentrism (you know, I didn’t even know that was a word until just now) if they wanna get free?
If I had tits, would that make any of my arguments more acceptable? Would it be edgy and hip if I used a female screename? Does the presence of a Y chromosome make anything I have to say on feminism automatically sexist?
And if it does, what kind of bigot are you, anyway?

Truce Dave, and yes, it was ad hominem in the sense that it truly was “to the man”We’ve better things to fight over and more deserving people to fight with, you and I, than to play logic games over an issue that for women is emotionally charged.
We’ve an oppressor to cripple….

OkayAnd if it comes down to fighting back, please don’t abandon me. I don’t want to be the only crazy bastard pulling up the paving stones and throwing them at the bigots. If you fight back too, then at least its a small movement.  

And to be honestI’d dump the lot of those accomodationists who’ve grown soft with their lobbying, cocktail parties, white house “photo-ops” and their thousand dollar a plate dinners.
They’ve won us nothing.
When we make denying us our rights more inconvienient and more costly to the establishment than granting them, then we will win.
Not til then.
And I believe that you agree with me on that.

I think it comes in wavesLook at Iran. It had been 30 years since they took to the streets.
It will happen again here. If Obama is assassinated or LGBT people are killed in large numbers (a bombing or something), you can bet we’ll have riots in the streets.
You can’t force these things to happen. People have to have a collective mind shock that makes them willing to go out on the streets and face death.
When your average person says, “I don’t have anything to lose” that is when we’ll see revolution.  

Yes, a gun fires the sameDo you think the women of the Arab world have guns? Do you think they have the training to use those guns? The training to take on trained police and soldiers? Trained police and soldiers who have demonstrated their willingness to use violence and torture?
Your assertion is patently ridiculous.
And your assertion that women are whining at men to liberate them is even more ridiculous.

Your arguments would be idioticregardless of whom you are.
Yes, all that Arab women need to do is to rip off their burkas and storm the Arab parliaments with guns.
rolls eyes

It wil be like old times for me, Dave, Raising barricades on 23 February 1981 with a group of women, joining with Socialists, Communists, Trade Unionists to keep the rebel army units from reenforcing the strike units of Franquistas/Falangists that had seized the Cortes. I was a law student following the lead of an old professora who was one of the surviving Mujeres Libres.
I still have it in me, I shant abandon you, old man. We hang together, worse things to hang for.

Next Burger King ad release in this series?
Would you like fries with that, M’am?

‘Cuz it won’t happen that wayProgressive men and women are working together to make a change.
There are plenty of women who support a patriarchal society. Their churches tell them that they should be subject to male authority. They are just like Queen Victoria.
If you were a woman who was raised by Evangelicals, you would not support equal rights for women.
I know it is frustrating to knwo that there are women who don’t want to be liberated. There were slaves in the pre-Civil War South who didn’t want to be freed — sad but true.
We are all products of the societies in which we live. Fighting the established ways is always difficult. But, change often comes in bursts of revolution — sometimes with horrible outcomes, too.

Fuck it, I just like to fight especially if there’s a chance I can get you to fight for me too. Let,s lock arms and bum-rush the bastards. There’s enough of the ‘us’es, you know? If all the people who get screwed by the mainstream got together-the elderly, the vets, the gays the lesbians, the trans and the bis, the women,t he Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, unions, socialists, all the people who get treated like shit by the christian right… if we all got together, the could squash the John Hagees and Pat Robertsons. Because you know, they’ve got it in for all of us. And while we have out little weekend pride events or ocassionally a little get together here and there, they’re in church every Sunday at some gawdawful hour organizing to get us. If we don,t start organizing on a regular basis, if we don’t form some kind of a union with each other to fight back against this crap… we’re sunk. All of us. There jsut isn’t enough of any one group of us to turn this thing around, we all have to lock arms together, and yes, we all have to liberate ourselves. We all have to look at what kind of victim role we’ve gotten too comfortable playing and cut that shit out.
Because victims don’t fight back. They stay in the burkas and don’t complain about it. They let the cops bust their best friend’s head in and don’tt try to stop it. You know what I’m saying? It’s that passive, “I can’t do anything to free myself” attitude that’s the real enemy. We’ve all got to liberate ourselves fromt hat meek, defeatist bullshit.
Rip up the fucking cobblestones,  

I would have mentioned the cultural colonizationhad I the remaining wit to do so.
but, um, I’m still simply floored.

It would take a mass killingbecause the constant drip-drip-drip of LGBT blood on a small scale, one life at a time, obviously is able to be dismissed.

Then train yourself, dammit!Stop acting like a fucking child that has to be walked through life and held by the hand! Take the guns, don,t wait for them to be given to you!

Then train yourself, dammit!Stop acting like a fucking child that has to be walked through life and held by the hand! Take the guns, don,t wait for them to be given to you!

Let’s not be meanI think DaveB is sincere and calling his arguments “idiotic” is not productive.
I myself have had quite enough of this kind of treatment lately.
DaveB really doesn’t understand why Arab women don’t simply rip off their burhas. If he actually spoke to a group of them, he’d find that they support the Islamic patriarchy.
We can be polite and help educate others who don’t yet understand these issues. Or, we can be uncivil and attempt to humiliate them.

Aux Barricadesa cry as old as the streets of Paris themselves.
Grafitti, hit and run protests designed to gridlock  a city and escape arrest, embarrassing protests that dispel the image of a happy gay movement supporting the President quiescently,
A bit of artwork on the wall of the Ft Worth Police Station saying “Gays Remember” would be a lovely starter.
Protests outside of Mormon Temples in California every time a marriage is scheduled, forcing to lock the gates and cancel then event would be fitting as well.
And lets’ not forget the Catholic Archbishops who use pulpits and church newsletters to lie shamelessly in the name of their god.

I dunnoI’m a gay man who was raised by heterosexuals that hate gay people. And somehow, I came to realize they were full of shit.
We are not prisoners of the past. We must, as a moral obligation, rethink everything we have been taught, and decide, for ourselves, what is true.
To simply adopt whatever world view you were handed so passively… to eagerly adopt that victim role… I can’t see that, you know? You have to set yourself free from that shit.
No chains bind so tightly as the shackles we put on our own minds, and no one can really, deeply hurt you except yourself.
Only when we free ourselves from ourselves c, from that old, flawed way of thinking that was handed to us-only when we carefully examine everything we were told to believe in and for the first time THINK for ourselves.. only then can we be free.
Everyone must liberate themselves

Sad and truePeople can put up with a lot of pain when it is delivered in small doses.
Besides a mass killing, a few other things could spark riots.
Imagine if one of the backward Southern states starts taking children way from gay and lesbian couples. We could have a video of a child being ripped from its parents’ arms. That could be the final straw.
Or, a famous LGBT person is killed or injured. Imagine what would happen if someone killed Ellen and Portia while they slept. The shit would hit the fan.
I know these things sound far-fetched. But, they are the kinds of events that happen to everyone’s surprise and horror.

She was the product of inbreedingand just another German foisted off on us by the Hanoverians, the lot of who were lunatics, buffoons or imbeciles.
The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha…..spare me.
People accidently chosen from the unemployed to rule a nation.
You know them as the Windsors.

Well, unless the fundies finally rally behind a moderatewho is willing to compromise, give us our rights and leave them to inflict their foolishness upon their own co-religionists, they will in the end not only precipitate a revolution but also create a Gay or Lesbian Robespierre and Marat.
That is the lesson of history concerning the fate of irreconcilable conservatives who oppose freedom.

This is most doubtfulModeration does not seem to be a word that comes up much in their sermons. They are, if anything, drunk on their own rhetoric, and perpetually so. Maybe they have become addicted to it

So it will end up Dave Robespierre and Maura Marat?Well, they have precippitated this..
And people:
A group of members of our community got severely beaten by a police force in an American city.
I dont want an apology for this.
I want justice.
Why in hell are we willing to march for marriage rights but not for the right to not have an illegally inflicted brain injury?
In Fort Worth, the government is no longer our friend.
Do something.
Bash back, grafitti the station, police cars, block roads, whatever….
If we do not, we prove that Rahm Emmanuel is right about us, we will put up with anything in exchange for crumbs

Here’s a shockMaybe she just wants to eat a burger. Why do we assume that because a woman is in an ad like this that it’s automatically sexual?

YesBecause in every country in the world, guns are as easier to acquire as they are in America. And yes, because it is possible for a civilian to train themselves as well as police and soldiers. Police and soldiers who have tanks. Especially when those police and soldiers work for governments that are propped up by the US government, by governments that receive huge amounts of military aid from the US.
It is you who should stop acting like a child, and assume that things are as simple as ripping off burkas and getting a gun.

Read what DaveB is suggestingGrabbing a gun and storming a parliament. Because guns, even if you can get them, wielded by civilians, are going to be so very effective against trained police and soldiers, who will be using much more than just guns.
That Arab women have not done so has nothing to do with whether Arab women support the patriarchy.  

Jeez, I guess that Tinypic photo hosting sitehas objections to potato photos

I’m guessing it has something to do with the particular visuals,(discussed at length in the thread above) coupled with copy containing such words and phrases as “BLOW,” “SEVEN INCHER,” “fill your desire for something long…” “Yearn for more.”
By the way, everyone else in the thread agreed on the sexual angle. They just didn’t agree on the humor or effectiveness of the ad.

Yes I see thatI didn’t see the sexual angle. I just saw very interesting reactions to having a woman in that ad and the automatic assumptions of it having to do with sex.

Oh Good Grief …And then there’s this reponse at Bitchy Old Queen ..
http://bitchyoldqueen.blogspot…

I didn’t realize that, Lyndon.You’re a Bitchy Old Queen?  Well, I guess calling Pam out as a fool might qualify as bitchy.