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NOTE FROM PAM: A copy of the ruling is here.
From Autumn — this is the split decision most of us expected. Proposition 8 was upheld, but the 18,000 weddings performed last year before the initiative was repealed will stand.
In summary, we conclude that Proposition 8 constitutes a permissible constitutional amendment (rather than an impermissible constitutional revision), does not violate the separation of powers doctrine, and is not invalid under the “inalienable rights” theory proffered by the Attorney General. We further conclude that Proposition 8 does not apply retroactively and therefore that the marriages of same-sex couples performed prior to the effective date of Proposition 8 remain valid. Having determined that none of the constitutional challenges to the adoption of Proposition 8 have merit, we observe that if there is to be a change to the state constitutional rule embodied in that measure, it must “find its expression at the ballot box.” (In re Marriage Cases, supra, 43 Cal.4th 757, 884 (conc. & dis. opn. of Corrigan, J.); see also id. at pp. 861, 878 (conc. & dis. opn. of Baxter, J.).)
109 Comments
Judicial COWARDICE!!!
Fuck emLet’s get started on a recall petition for the Idiot 6. If they don’t understand the law well enough to figure out what they did, then they have no business presiding over it. Let’s remind them that angry christians aren’t the only group out there.
Oh. Shit. Don’t be surprised if there are some areas of CA on fire tonight. Cross your fingers for us, folks. We’re gonna need it. Now, we have no other avenue but the ballot box.
Tyranny and segregation!EOM.
Video reaction from Stop8.orgCourtesy of Matt Baume to tips:
Courage Campaign’s new t.v. ad.See it here:
CrazyThat part is the craziest of all. Let me get this straight. We have to prevent gay marriage because we just CAN’T violate the will of the people as expressed at the ballot box.
And yet, we’re allowing 18,000 marriages to stand – why, exactly?
So now, there are gay people who ARE married in California, all legal-like and everything, and all the other gay people CANNOT get married. On what planet does this represent equality?
It’s as though Brown v. Board of Education said “Okay, that ONE school in Arkansas has to integrate, but everyone else is okay.”
REPEAL PROP 8 in 2010Ruling not a surprise.
Listen to Pam it’s about the CA constitution not the previous equality ruling by the CA Supreme Court.
No brainer to be on the ballot next year. I’m not voting YES on anything until I get to vote YES to REPEAL PROP 8.
Prop 8 UpheldIt is a sad day for the LGBT community. I had always looked to CA as the place where folks were fair minded about our issues, however, that has changed over the last year.
Just today, an article in the Yahoo News announced that Hillary Clinton would be signing regulation that would give full equality to lgbt couples at the State Department. This may be the first in a list of federal issues that will propel federal legislation forward for all people in the U.S., not just federal employees. For if the U.S. government can give its employees equality, then why not the rest of society?
Next MoveI think what should happen next is a call for a constitutional convention in CA to reform the amendment process.
Otherwise, CA voters on both sides of this issue will keep playing a game of ping-pong every two years trying to undo what the other side did in the previous election!
Not only thatbut those married gay Californians will have California benefits, but no federal benefits. This crazy-quilt patchwork of laws and court decisions governing gay marriage is just insane.
absolutely!This is where the energy should go; otherwise more stupidity like this will occur in CA, and for either side of the issue, it’s a money and time suck to do this over and over. That state constitution is ass.
Here from the COURAGE CAMPAIGN… is their plan…and the reason..E.G. we voted a few weeks ago whether to try in 2010 or 2012…Vote 82.5% …2010.
So that’s it…back to work.
NCLR reaction(via GLAD) here:
http://overturn8.nclrights.org…
watch protests live…but the screen will go back to their logo for commercials…
Three optionsWe’ve tried the soap box and the ballot box. White supremacists aren’t the only ones with ammo boxes.
Neither Stonewall nor White Nights were candlelight vigils.
18,000 Legally-married gay couplesI’m left sitting here thinking about the 18,000 gay married couples whose marriages remain valid. Imagine being married and knowing that if you divorce, you can never marry again. Talk about your pressure to seek marriage counseling!
Sad to say that I saw this coming – California is governed by ballot initiative. The court declares that the denial of marriage rights to gays is unconstitutional, so the people vote to deny marriage to gays in their constitution. Truly, then, Californians could overturn any California Supreme Court ruling that doesn’t fly in the face of federal constitutionality.
How weird is it when Iowa and Maine are more gay-rights friendly than California?
Weak CaseGiven past decisions regarding amendment vs. revision, this decision was perfectly predictable. Even though I think they got it wrong before, they are being completely consistent with this decision.
Our side refused to bring our strongest argument- the Federal Equal Protection Clause – because we are afraid of losing in the US Supreme Court. Given that this court is not likely to get any better even if Obama has 3 appointments because they will all come from the liberal side, I don’t see what are we waiting for.
Kennedy is the swing vote and he has been the author of the pro-gay decisions. I don’t think he is going to rule for marriage equality per se but he might rule that Prop 8 (and the constitutional amendments in other states) violate the Equal Protection Clause by denying LGBT people access to the courts and the legislature similar to his findings in Romer v. Evans. Is it a gamble? Yes, but at least it had a chance. The revision argument never really did.
I concur…with Kennard being the main focus, and Werdegar being a possible exception. Although Werdegar concurred, she basically called the other justices on their “revision vs. amendment” bullshit…but she did buy into the argument that proposition 8 didn’t change anything substantial in the Equal Protection clause.
When Kennard said “is the sky still falling then?” I knew right then we’d lost. She’s just crazy and has no business being on that or any other court any longer. I don’t care if she’s pro-gay marriage or not at this point.
Justice Moreno’s dissent was fantastic. I hope he makes it up to the US Supreme Court one day.
retroactively?What the hell? The proposition isn’t about performing marriages, it is about recognizing them. Why does it matter that the marriages were legal when they were performed?
Their logic will go down as some of the most pretzelin quite some time.
Yes, but…NOT before we codify marriage equality.
It’s my birthday todayand the only gift that I wanted was for all Ca. residents to have the right to marry the one whom they love. What a travesty. To think that my fundie parents and sister are happy about the ruling only saddens me more. “All men are created equal”- NOT.
That’s b.s.If they truly believed what you say they believed, there is no reason for upholding the 18,000 marriages. It was a political punting of the issue because they were afriad for their jobs, but wanted to have some good standing in history. They will keep theri job, but l ook poorly in historical context.
it’s b.s. rationalization
I’m with you ….the only YES votes I will be casting is to repeal Article 7.5 of the California Constitution and to limit participation of RELIGIOUS organizations in secular affairs.
Wow
One bite of the apple. What a shame that STRAIGHTS in California aren’t held to this same standard…
To be honest,Iowa and Maine are NOT more gay-rights friendly than California, even if they have marriage equality. There are a whole host of other LGBT issues in which California exceeds any other state, SSM is the only one.
When marriage equality arrives in Vermont, it will be the friendliest state to the LGBT community. Maine’s law may not even take effect until the ballot measure occurs.
Waiting…Shall we hold our breath while the numbnuts in the White House (aka our fierce defender) comments? Or should we just watch the grass grow?
On a day like thisOn a day like this we can see a Peurto Rican woman named a candidate for the Supreme Court of the country and the Supreme Court of California unable to come out of the judical closet of upholding law that enshrines discrimination and hatred.
Sotomayor’s confirmation hearing is going to be a hand full. There is no way this ruling is not going to come up.
To all of you whom can not get married HOLD FAST.Do not despair. This storm too will pass.
Happy birthday, exfundieand I am SO sorry that this happened on what should be a joyful day for you.
It could have been a joyful day for all of us, but the CA Supreme Court upheld Prop H8. Bastards, bastards, bastards.
Truly, now it is time for no more Mr. Nice Gay. If I lived in CA I would riot. As it stands I am looking for protests in NC…anyone know what’s happening around Durham-Chapel Hill?
How about a new amendment –the “Equal Protection Restoration Amendment”. It would be simple — no exceptions to the “equal protection” clause of the California Constitution may be made without removing the clause from the Constitution entirely by a revision process. I’m not sure how it would be done legally to make it work, but this stuff is getting ridiculous.
I demand all California citizens have equal protection under the law…… as guaranteed to us by the both the state and federal Constitutions.
Now what?
I agree…speak the only language the fundies understand… Everything else had been tried.
Found an interesting note in Werdegar’s concurring opinion
I get a couple of things from this. She thinks that:
separate can be made to be equal (WTF!?!);all branches of the state are obliged to make separate equal;the law needs changes to make this happen; anda challenge to the domestic partnership arrangement from a straight couple who wants one would not survive judicial review.
(For the record, I think that CA needs to first mount a successful ballot campaign to amend its constitution to repeal Prop. 8, followed by another campaign to reform the amendment process. I also think that her remarks are interesting.)
More interesting bits to follow as reading reveals them.
not that I know of…I’m in Fayetteville and was hoping to go protest tonight but last time I checked the closest protest was in dc… I wish I would have organized something but I’m very short on time these days.
This makes me sick.I am not interested right now in anyone ‘softening’ the blow for me. It sucks. I hope everyone gets off their gay ass tonight and heads to their respective State Houses and makes their disenfranchised voices heard. I will be headed to Dupont Circle and I cannot wait for the National GAY Protest to overtake the Nations Capital in October. This has got to stop and I no longer trust our National Gay organizations to stand up for us. It’s time we stood up for ourselves!!!!!!!
Yes, it’s time for civil disobedience
Shouldn’t we be expecting the “family” groups……to propose another amendment to invalidate the 18,000 marriages that still exist?
Just got to the dissentLoved it.
I agree!One man, one woman, ONE TIME.
At this point…At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if the biggest bait-and-switch administration of our time jumped on the TV and cheered the decision. I really wouldn’t.
Thank you ElizabethI do live in Ca. (San Diego) and will be at a rally tonight. I am one of the lucky ones (my spouse and I married the first day that it was legal because I didn’t trust the ruling to stand). We have been together for 23 years. Even though I am still considered married, I cannot feel happy today. However, I will continue to fight until all have equal rights.
I expect the usual response……..Silence.
I haven’t heard of any in NC, but I know Equality NC was looking for volunteers today. If you wanted a way to pitch in for equality today, they were asking anyone who wanted to volunteer to e-mail them at: seth@equalitync.org
Definitely…Local pastors are already on the news talking about how disappointed they are on the ruling re: the 18,000 s-s marriages.
Well, there will be protests in VAI know that I am protesting in Charlottesville with friends, and I think that there will be a group in Richmond. We’d be happy to have you, of course, but that’s still a heck of a drive.
Like Barack Obama…… we can do more than one thing at a time.
Both are important, but I’ll take my equality first if I have to choose. Then I’ll be happy to work on keeping it.
rather than only reinforce the fundie beliefsthat we see violence from our community as a legitimate answer to this (remember Dr. King) – get busy and work to change things:
How We Will Repeal Prop 8
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…
Interesting..The opinion sets forth that all the prop does is reserve the word marriage for heteronormative couples.
And that everything else must be done still.
That means that equity would best be achieved by legislatively removng the word marriage from law, for one.
That the state is still compelled to offer all other benefits — inclusive of kinship — even if not the word.
And that the court is doing its damndest to figure out how to not let this overrule its prior opinion.
Not that many will care — already there are nasty things being said that shouldn’t be.
At the same time…When filling out petitions for the repeal of Prop 8 (in case The SCOTUS declines to hear the case), every TLBG organization in the state should pass out petitions removing civil rights protections based on religion.
If that gets on the ballot, maybe then the bigots will understand!
Protests all over the USCheck out your state gatherings here:
http://dayofdecision.wetpaint….
I will be in West Hollywood at San Vicente & Santa Monica Blvd. at 7pm!
Try filing taxes here in Ca.Marital Status: Married on Ca. returns, Single on federal. WTF?
The dissentI just saw on one of the news scrolls that they’re already calling him an “activist judge.”
Actually,I hope he just keeps his mouth shut. Since the decision went against us, anything he says would send my blood pressure through the roof.
Justice Werdegarseems to want to do the right thing, but really all I have to say is “take your DP’s and shove ‘em.” I’m actually married in California, evidently, and I’d rather her take the time to explain why I can have this assignation but other gays & lesbian couples can only hope to have their DP’s “made equal.” It’s just b.s. mumbo-jumbo, though I’m sure she means well in terms of equality.
California…doesn’t deserve our taxes.
Maine will be the next target of religious opponents to same-sex marriage. With this victory in California they will be more embolden in their referendum attempt in Maine to overturn marriage equality. I truly believe Mainers will see through the lies and tell the outsiders to take a hike.
Hate to say it, but YES, I agree too…If mob rule is the order of the day. Then so be it!!
Most of us who are married…are far less concerned today about our inability to enter into a hypothetical subsequent marriage than we are with the fact that our CURRENT marriages have been affirmed as valid for the rest of our lives. Are we disappointed and angry that Prop 8 was not overturned? Absolutely. But that setback is temporary, and we know we will restore equality as soon as possible. The complete affirmation of the 18,000 marriages, however, is enduring and significant.
I’m married…and I’m far less concerned with the validity of my marriage in a strictly legal sense as with the validity in the eyes of society. We will be a group of people who constantly have to answer for our marriages, being that “only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in the state of California.” We may have to have documentation proving our marriages to convince many in society that they legally exist, and even then will only receive grudging confirmation from our peers.
This is a CRAPPY compromise from the CA Supremes.
Of course they are.
burn that bitch down!!!!
I agreeI can’t help but agree that this is mumbo-jumbo, even if well meant (but what good is that?). What does she think that the state can and will do to guarantee equality of “perception”?
Best of luck on the recall effort. My hopes and donations are with you.
Frankly…I’m not sure if I disagree with that term, I just don’t see anything negative in it. Sometimes courts have to rearrange things a bit, find avenues to ensure justice is truly served. That’s what Moreno would have done, and if he’s an “activist” for it, so be it.
My nearest is Bostonso here we be…
Probably better that way- we need clear heads to focus on task at hand: How to take a deep breath and start again, pushing the entire country forward instead of one state at a time, which may or may NOT “stick”…
That’s the brilliant simplicity and logic in the Dallas Principles.
You’re right Bruno.The bad must be destroyed before common sense can be implemented.
Yes we (Maine) will be the next targetThe Peter makes his first stop of his “Truth Tour 2009″ this weekend with 3 speaking events in Maine (coutesy of Mike Heath)- but of course the events are by invite only.
And NO PRESS ALLOWED AT ALL.
White House presser coming up$10 says the issue won’t even come up because President Chickenshit announced Sotomayer today. Fags in California won’t even be a blip on Scottie McClell- oops, sorry, I meant Robert Gibbs’s radar.
Those of us married in California will have to always carry proof. Where married heterosexuals will be taken at their word. I can foresee lawsuits based on marital status discrimination.
I can get on board with thatWho is all for divorce being illegal for heterosexuals?
Two can play that game.
It just amazes me how so many people say same-sex couples will ruin marriage but isn’t it already ruined by the heterosexuals?
50% divorce rate
domestic violence in marriages, infidelity….
DisentangleIs it too much to ask to disentangle government benefits from marital status?
Why should you be married to do a lot of things married people can do under the law?
Let the Court know how you feel Chief Justice George and Justice Chin are up for retention votes in 2010. Let your displeasure with their decision on this matter be heard at the ballot box.
I have that same feeling about KennedyKennedy is an ally and, from what I’ve noticed, he has a tendency to want to be on the side of history. I actually could see him being the 5th vote and striking down a part of or all of DOMA, for example.
Whether I want to take that chance with Prop 8, though…I am not sure
LDS Church response to ruling http://www.abc4.com/content/ne…
just me or has MOTHERF***ING become the adjective for Mormon today?
Salon linked to this videosadly ineffective coming 7 months TOO LATE
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broad…
http://www.salon.com/politics/…
Drinking gameAnyone up for the drinking game during either Maddow or Olbermann 2nite?
Drink every time “the children” are mentioned.
Drink every time “fierce defender”
When else?
It’s a good ideafor same-sex couples married, civil unioned or domestic partnered in ANY state to carry some sort of proof (.pdf that certificate, shrink it down, carry it in your wallet, or something similar). You’re right that legal recognition does not necessarily impart institutional and social recognition. Without equality everywhere, it’s part of what we have to do to protect ourselves and our partners.
Fuck the mormonsand their magic underwhere.
Sorry, I can’tor I’ll be too drunk to go to choir rehearsal this evening.
But here’s another one: “will of the Pee-Pul”.
The question now is “who’s next?”After reading the opinions and the dissent, it is clear that an unfortunately strong majority of the Supreme Court of California holds that protections of the equal rights of minorities are fair game for being reduced or eliminated through the initiative process.
I’m sure that the bigots will be back with initiatives targeting the marriages that were upheld, targeting the domestic partnership laws, targeting any laws protecting GLBT Californians from discrimination, and then aiming more forcefully at other minorities. When a Constitution becomes a weapon, lots of people will end up getting hit.
yesI agree with this. I’m not up for violence. Passive resistance? Check. Peaceful, but powerful, civil disobedience? Check. Beating them the way they want to beat me? Not so much.
BTW Pam, it’s only because you recommend the link that I’d ever think to click through to DKos for anything LGBT (or gender bias) related. The latest front page diary regarding Prop 8 reads about as close to being apologetic for the CA supremes as one can get without saying, “now stop picking on those poor level-headed justices.” Think Eugene’s diary will get front-paged?
Everyone be sure to continue boycotting Mormon businessesWe don’t need to give them one cent of our money to use against us in our struggle for equal rights.
Meet in the Middle Saturday in FresnoI just betcha if you looked on those Yes on Prop 8 lists and maps you could find some Mormon owned businesses there.
Oh for God’s sake just cut it out!All of our options HAVE NOT been exhausted. I understand the anger but I wish you would just stop this phony Che Guevera stuff. Did you really think this would be easy? You have a setback and right away folks are talking about rioting and stuff.
What do you think that’s going to solve. Oh you are “going to show everyone how mad you are”. Good for you! But all of this venting and all of these threats are not going to get the community anywhere. This is going to be a slow process whether you like it or not. No amount of protest or taking to the streets will speed this thing up. This ruling was not a total victory but it’s not a total defeat either. 18,000 marriages is nothing to sneeze at and it is somethng we can work to build upon. Rather than losing yourself in overdramatic illusions of anarchy and threats, why don’t some spewng that nonsense take the time to work on somethng productive in order to overturn Prop 8. Nothng is impossible unless you decide not to even try.
I know some folks are going to get at me for breaking their reverie of self pity but come on people. We are too far ahead to lose now despite the decision. Rather than giving up, I am going to continue to do my little bit in South Carolina.
Oh well, the insanity continues . . . Californians may have to brace for an annual tug-of-war as whichever side does not win the current or any future ballot initiative proposing a “Marriage Amendment” until such a time as public opinion over a long period of time makes it clear that one side or the other can’t possibly prevail.
The good news is that the current ruling means that in the future, if there are any periods during which marriage equality is constitutionally recognized pursuant to a ballot initiative, marriages licensed until the next constitutional amendment is adopted denying marriage equality will be considered valid.
The other not-quite-so-bad news is that the Court held that California Civil Unions must carry the same rights as marriage in california except for the name marriage. Employers, insurers, etc. must provide the same benefits to those who are civil unionized as those who are married – and one might consider that might mean that employers providing medical and other benefits to unionized couples should have to make up the unequal income tax treatment.
So “marriage” is the family-creating contract for “one man and one woman.” And equal protection requires “Separate but equal” treatment for civil union contracts.
It looks like any least bit of inequality is going to have to be litigated – so this decision will probably be keeping lawyers in California gainfully employed for years.
It seems as if Californians have had to live with their wacky “Ballot Initiative” rule since 1879 – and recently that has resulted in a lot of grief for the state, particularly with over 90% of the state budget being tied up with laws created by injudicious use of the initiative.
I’ve…..pretty much had it with California and am seriously thinking of taking my family, my business, and the jobs that it produces somewhere else.
That’s why it doesn’t make senseto put this back to the ballot in 2010. Even if we win, the haters will be back and they may reinstate the ban in a future election with less voter turnout.
We must put this back on the ballet in 2010…that way we can get our rights back and then work on changing the Ca. constitution as written in people’s comments above. I think that the fact that it isn’t a Presidential election will help us, not hurt us.
Marriages are valid…only if there’s no explicit retroactivity in the wording of the amended language. So if let’s say we regain equality in 2010 and then it’s reversed in 2012, they may specifically write in language that invalidates those marriages.
Gloating SundayIt’ll have to wait until after Sunday the 31st. They’ve announced they’re going to be celebrating the fact that inequality reigns in CA on that day.
Except those marriages are now worthless, except maybe for out of state recognition.The supreme court may have chosen not to forcibly divorce those 18,000 but I cannot see how those marriages can be used for anything now that they conflict with the explicit language of prop 8 that they can not be recognized.
What do Obama and the Cali Supremes have in common?They both pander to bigots. Obama to get elected and the Supremes so they won’t get recalled.
They won’t stop pandering and won’t stop denying us equality unless we escalate the pressure by breaking from both parties of bigotry, organizing our own communities and pressing the fight. Mass marches are the method of choice.
They and the bigots they pander to have to be cowed. Accommodating to the agenda of bigots like Obama and electing him or a Republican bigot are loser strategies.
California does and must recognize them.The decision is explicit that “Accordingly, the marriages of same-sex couples performed prior to the effective date of Proposition 8 remain valid and must continue to be recognized in this state.” (p. 13) and “Those marriages remain valid in all respects.” (p. 135). Aggravating though the decision may be in upholding Prop 8, the justices (all of them!) give no further room for our opponents to challenge those marriages or deny their legal existence. They find that to do otherwise would have stripped couples of vested property rights without due process. (p. 134)
I’m setting up something for NC in about an hourhttp://www.pamshouseblend.com/…
Ok missed that bit.Thanks for correcting me.
Um, I’m talking about a recall petitionFor the judges that passed this odious ruling like the fundies threatened in order to cow them into forgetting their basic duties to the protection of basic constitutional rights.
So why is everyone acting like I recommended shooting them?
On a separate issue, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with violent towards property demonstrations during the protests as there does need to be a wake-up call to the middle that gays are human beings who hurt and the weeping faces and dead bodies don’t seem to get through, but I would agree that no gay person should attack someone not even Pat Robertson himself over this. We can channel our anger smartly like we did after Prop 8. While apparently it won’t help California, it has helped the rest of the country immensely. Let’s hammer the fundie churches and the Mormons over their tax dodging and continue boycotting businesses who donated until we are equal. But anyways, that’s mostly an aside. The specific idea I had was the recall of the judges who can oh so conveniently forget suspect class and fundamental unassailable rights to protect California’s broken constitutional system.
Seriously, it should not take less votes for the people to change the constitution than it takes the legislator. That’s obscene and if it’s going to continue to pollute our state, it damn well is the job of the judicial to ensure that it’s never used to do things like oh, remove the constitutional rights from a minority group. Instead, they cowered in fear of recall petitions and being called activist judges. Something they made very clear in hearing the testimony.
Another reason they are cowardsIf they had any consistency and gravitas then they would have taken the Prop 8 ruling and upheld it and then referenced their suspect clause and separate isn’t equal rulings and state that from now on all marriages were invalid until the amendment was repealed. Then the fundies could understand how it felt to have “equal” domestic partnerships they can call marriage in their happy dappy churches.
But no, instead they decided to put every single minority on notice that at any moment, their rights could be stripped and no one would do a thing about it. Latinos are no longer citizens in California, blacks no longer have due process of law, mormons can no longer practice their deviant lifestyles in California borders. Any and all of these is 50%+1 votes away thanks to these gutless scum.
All because they were afraid of a recall.
San Jose Mercury NewsIs reporting that 175 people were arrested after a peaceful protest earlier.
Here’s the photos.
Mixed feelings…Dr. King, it goes without saying, was a wonderful man, and his ideas continue to reverberate and improve this country to this day.
Even so, he was shot by a crazed right-wing f*ckbag (possibly with the backing of U.S. Special Forces – see William F. Pepper’s “Orders to Kill”).
Put it out there that physical violence is off the table… and watch the most unscrupulous of the bigots reach out and take what they view as a free opportunity to attack.
I really do respect your grace under fire in continuing to advocate nonviolence… but sometimes I have to wonder if, and when, we’ll have to say they’ve finally crossed our line…
RIGHT ON!!“Read our lips – NO GAY TAXES!”
WOW…How the hell can she possibly think a law (or amendment) against gay marriage should actually survive strict scrutiny?
If California state constitutional jurisprudence with respect to equal protection is anything like its federal counterpart, then the amendment, in order to survive, would need to be the most narrowly tailored means of addressing a compelling state interest.
So – where’s the compelling state interest here? The plaintive, entitlement-laden moans of out-of-state religious groups, to the effect that they have a right to force the civil law into compliance with their personal religious convictions, constitutional commands be damned? Is this really a state interest? Or does Werdegar really expect us to believe that separate-but-sorta-approaching-equal (i.e. partnership) is OK? In that case, the apparent state interest would be one largely of nomenclature, presumably in order to avoid annoying the Poor Widdle Picked-On Religious Bigots. Is this really compelling?
Maybe!I’d LOVE to think they’d finally “get it”. It’s a great idea, full of just the right amount of snark-with-a-purpose.
Unfortunately, most of those folks are afflicted with the kind of paranoia that would make even Richard Milhous Nixon gather up the reins and shout “WHOA!” Namely, they might find some way to twist it into “see-I-told-you-so-the-militant-homosexual-agenda-IS-out-to-get-us”. Who knows…
It’s “Family” Home Evening, and time to pick a board game……I’d suggest “Collide the Headlines!”
“Prop 8 upheld” + “North Korea tests nuclear missiles” = “Someone call Pyongyang and give ‘em the GPS coordinates to the center of the street grid in Salt Lake City”. :-D
Not sure……how I feel about terming Obama a “bigot”.
Certainly, his silence on GLBT issues is far from welcome, and should earn him at least some contempt – especially given his own status as a minority (and old enough to remember quite a ways back, at that).
But, by the same token, he’s the Commander-in-Chief – he’s being pulled in a lot of political directions. This doesn’t excuse his cowardice in failing to bat for LGBTQ’s as he promised to do… but it might be a better explanation than out-and-out bigotry.
Yes, Dr King was shot by a crazed right wing f*ckbagBut, that is the point, tragic though it is. King is considered a saint. The people who opposed him are considered to be crazed f*ckbags at worst, at best, they are marginalised.
The thing is that the GLBT community is not a majority power. It is very difficult for a weaker minority in a modern society to win with physical violence. If the GLBT community resorts to physical violence, it won’t be long before the bigots start resorting to “terrorist” imagery etc. Physical violence isn’t going to change the views of the bigots. It just gives them more ammunition. More importantly, it will drive the fence sitters and even some supporters away. This works both ways, both for the GLBT community and the bigots.
He’s said gawd is in the mixHe can hang by the words of his own book: By their works ye shall know them.
His actions are those of a bigot. He can wear the label his own book gives him.
He walks like a bigot and he talks like a bigot…
During the campaign supporters of Obama, Clinton and McCain all said that their candidate was only opposed to our agenda because they’re politicians and have to pretend to be bigots but that deep down they support us. Maybe that’s true and maybe it isn’t. Certainly Obama and especially Hillary Clinton are deeply involved in cultism and seem to accept superstitious thinking as a guide to action.
In any case their motives are unimportant. The functional definition of a bigot is someone who works to deny us our rights, including the right to marry. Obama, Clinton and McCain fit the bill.
It also applies to those like Obama, McCain and Clinton who actively court the bigot vote. Obama in particular hinged his campaign on pandering to such an extent that he could teach Rove a thing or two.
Obama’s Minister of Pandering, ordained pentecostal minister Josh Dubois, organized a series of revival style rallies featuring ex-gay scum like Donnie McClurkin. Dubois went on to organize christer cultists a powerful nationwide network of supporters groups. That in turn insured a large audience for his message that bigotry is OK because ‘gawd’s in the mix”; a key factor in our defeat in California on November 4th.
After the election we found Obama in a political love fest with southern baptist Warren at the Inaugural and then saw him appoint bigots to his board of spirit advisors. He even has a prayer writer to back up his speech writers! Now that same Josh Dubois has been given the assignment of lining up support from greedy pastors and priests with ‘faith based’ bribes.
There is a clear pattern here and it’s a pattern of bigotry. Actually, if their anti-GLBT actions are based on political expediency it’s all the more revolting and treacherous for that.
Finally we see his increasingly chilly if not downright hostile attitude to repealing DOMA and DADT and enacting the rest of our agenda. He, and the Democrats as a whole, seem bent on postponing our agenda until the next election cycle when they’ll dump it like they did in 2007 to pander to bigots.
Here comes the bus…
If the fundies get on the ballot in 2012we need to have our own alternate initiative, one man, one woman, ONE TIME. With retroactive language, so those who are on their second, third or fourth marriages will no longer be valid or recognized. Play into the religious fundies and force them to own up to their bigotry against LGBT Californians. If they truly believe in the “sanctity of marriage” they will support a ban on DIVORCE.