crossposted on Holy Bullies and Headless Monsters
This is just pitiful. A few thoughts:
1. Where is Carrie Prejean? Apparently her moment in the spotlight is over.
2. Maggie Gallagher got wrecked twice. First was a full speed dressing down by former Miss USA Shanna Moakler. Moakler takes Gallagher to task for exploiting Prejean. I found myself saying “get it girlfriend!” while snapping my fingers in a “Z formation.”
The second wrecking was a bit more subtle by substitute host Joy Behar. Behar asked her a simple question about why focusing on gays wanting to get married rather than divorce. Gallagher hems and haws big time. Of course she pushes her tried and true diversionary argument of “they think we are bigots for defending traditional marriage.”
3. Stephen Baldwin was much more useful when he was freely showing his buttcheeks in movies. “God wrote the Bible?” Come on now. And then he talks about being persecuted. Pullleaze!
4. Former Miss California, the Rev. Nicole Lamarche, defends marriage equality with intelligence, poise, and the utmost grace. Awesome lady!
BEHAR: The gay marriage debate has been front and center this week.
Joining us for a debate of our own are Shanna Moakler, director of Miss California USA. She's a former Miss USA who's in a new ad slamming Proposition 8. It bans gay marriage in California.
Reverend Nicole la March. Nicole was Miss California in 2003. She supports gay marriage.
In Los Angeles, actor Stephen Baldwin, starring in “I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here,” joins us. He is opposed to gay marriage.
And Maggie Gallagher, president of the National Organization for Marriage, is here.
A new anti-gay marriage ad featuring Miss California, Carrie Prejean, I believe is the way you say it, was launched this week.
Listen to Carrie's remarks that reignited the issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY NBC)
PEREZ HILTON: Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same-sex marriage.
Do you think every state should follow suit?
Why or why not?
CARRIE PREJEAN: Well, I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what, in my country and in — in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman — no offense to anybody out there.
CARRIE PREJEAN, MISS CALIFORNIA: Well, I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And, you know what, in my country, and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there. But that's how I was raised, and that's how I think that it should be, between a man and a woman. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Shanna, what's your reaction to Carrie Prejean. How do you say her name?
MOAKLER: Carrie Prejean. Prejean, Prejean. I say Prejean.
BEHAR: What's your reaction to those remarks?
MOAKLER: I'm very proud of Carrie that she stood up for what she believes in and she followed her heart. And I told her that that night. I'm not going to lie and say that it hurt my feelings a little bit. Everyone is right. Everyone has the freedom to their speech, the freedom of speech. I applaud her for that.
BEHAR: Right, OK. Maggie, you had a press conference for the National Organization of Marriage, where you released that new ad called “No Offense With Carrie Prejean.” Let's take a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's asked her opinion about marriage.
PREJEAN: I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman, no offense to anybody out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then is attacked.
PEREZ HILTON, CELEBRITY GOSSIP: She's a dumb (EXPLETIVE DELETED), OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pro-marriage group talks about how gay marriage will impact religious groups.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's no longer palatable in this country or OK to be an outright bigot. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They attack if you oppose gay marriage because they don't want to debate the consequences.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. That was — that's a harsh ad.
GALLAGHER: Is it a harsh ad? I think it's an honest ad. I think the reason Carrie's story is resonating with so many people, besides how young and nice that she is and beautiful, is that a lot of Americans who think marriage means a man and a woman are feeling like it doesn't matter how nicely you say it, how civilly you say it, you get slammed. You get treated as if you are — you get name-called. After Prop 8, people's names were put up on the Internet, and we had people saying, go after these people.
We had a waitress who gave 100 dollars to support marriage and people were calling for her job. They wanted her to lose her job, because she supported marriage as a man and a woman. So the reality is I don't blame gay people for this. I know many gay people. No way this is the way they want this movement to be acting.
But we do have a gay marriage movement right now that if you disagree with them, they tend to treat you like you were the Ku Klux Klan or something. And that's what happened to Carrie. I think most of us think that's wrong.
BEHAR: Nicole, you've been in Carrie's position. You were a beautiful Miss California.
LAMARCHE: Thank you, thank you.
BEHAR: Then you became a reverend. I'm fascinated by that. Was she correct to speak her mind like that, do you think?
LAMARCHE: Oh, absolutely.
BEHAR: Free speech?
LAMARCHE: Absolutely. I think the place where I enter the conversation is when she went on “The Today Show” and then said that the Bible condones what she said. And that's a little tricky. The Bible — any reading of the Bible is a selective reading. And so I always want to make sure to offer an alternative position, which is that god is the god of love, and that marriage should be something that's available for each and every loving adult committed couple.
BEHAR: Do you agree with that, Steven?
BALDWIN: Absolutely not. The Bible clearly indicates that when two of the same sex lie down together, that is sin. Now, God wrote t
he Bible. So, therefore, that is what God has to say and God is the judge.
The thing that's very interesting to me, Joy, is just because I believe in the Bible means that I'm now being persecuted if I believe in traditional marriage. So I'm here to —
BEHAR: How are you being persecuted?
BALDWIN: Joy, let me finish. I'm here to represent all of those people who are being persecuted for believing in traditional marriage.
BEHAR: Tell me how you're being persecuted exactly, Stephen. What's happening to you?
BALDWIN: Exactly like Miss California. Just simply because who she is and what she believes is that traditional marriage is what is right, according to who she is and what she believes. Look what's happening. She's being persecuted.
MOAKLER: I need to interject in here.
BALDWIN: She's being persecuted.
BEHAR: Go ahead, Shanna.
MOAKLER: First and foremost, Carrie didn't lose the pageant because her answer. She was behind in numbers, behind in scores. Carrie is being persecuted because she has a title, and that title is Miss California USA. She has responsibilities as Miss California USA that she has now basically kind of forgone, and has aligned herself with an organization that has — it's already a heated and polarizing issue. So to align yourself with this right after all the heat, you can't complain of getting all this heat and then go do something so drastic.
BEHAR: OK, Maggie.
GALLAGHER: It's not drastic to say marriage means a man and a woman, nor to stand with other people who are doing that. I was going to compliment you, Shanna, on the change in your tone in respecting Carrie's rights here. But I have to say you're now sounding exactly like you did when she appeared on “The Today Show,” accusing her of pursuing an opportunistic agenda. Then you released private medical information about her to the press to try to smear her.
MOAKLER: I think you're pursuing an opportunist agenda when you hire a 21-year-old that has —
MOAKLER: — who has never even had a long-term relationship, and you put her in a press junket that she's unprepared for. You were not only damaging her. This is a bright, young, talented young woman that has — is going to be left with a legacy of being an Anita Bryant. She should be back home in California, and she should be doing her responsibilities.
BEHAR: I'm going to let you talk as soon as we come back, OK?
What do you think of gay marriage. That's tonight's quick vote question. Go to CNN.com/LarryKing and tell us what you think. We'll be back after this with more.
BEHAR: OK. We're back. Maggie, what did you want to say to Shanna?
GALLAGHER: I wanted to say, first of all, that Carrie does not work for the National Organization for Marriage. She's a spokesman for her own views, as anyone watching her is perfectly clear. It's the Miss USA California officials who, instead of backing her up and dealing with this judge, who went on the Internet and videotaped himself cursing her out, saying he wanted to rip the tiara off — for you to go around Shanna and say that her legacy is divisive and polarizing, you will not meet a better human being than Carrie.
I'm honored that she chose to stand with us at the National Organization for Marriage, as we released this ad calling for people to account.
BEHAR: I want to ask you about the National Organization for Marriage. It's set up to protect marriage, right?
GALLAGHER: Our mission is protecting marriage and the faith communities that sustain it.
BEHAR: Then why don't you focus on Mel Gibson's divorce, Bristol Palin's single parenthood, and she should be married — maybe she should be getting married? Why are you focusing on gay marriage?
GALLAGHER: I spent 20 years on the problem of family fragmentation, divorce and married child — there really isn't anyone who has gone around the country more.
GALLAGHER: The reason I cared about that is I used to go around the country and say marriage really matters because children need a mom and dad. After after Massachusetts, I think I'm not going to be able to say that anymore. The law — you change the definition of marriage, you change it for everyone. And this ancient and honorable idea, marriage is about bringing together the two halves of humanity, male and female, so that children have a mother and father. That's going to be treated as bigotry.
MOAKLER: What's wrong with a mother and a mother and what is wrong with a father and a father? I don't think anyone can define marriage, except two people who are in a union together who love each other. — as an organization that can do that.
BEHAR: Nicole, get in here.
LAMARCHE: Those of us who are celebrating marriage equality believe in marriage. I mean, marriage is an institution that creates healthy children, healthy families, which is why I would say that it should be an option for any adult, loving, committed couple. And it is because we're all — we're all celebrating marriage and we believe it is so important that it should be an option for each and every couple.
BEHAR: I understand that, but you're sort of saying the words mother and father as a nouns. It's also a verb, to mother, to father, so you could have two women mothering a child or fathering a child. It's a role really.
GALLAGHER: No, I don't think so. I think that, in fact, there's something special about unions of husbands and wives. There's a reason marriage has been this way. Not only our own, but in almost every known human society. And that this vision of marriage — it's your point. It's a fine point.