crossposted on Holy Bullies and Headless Monsters
When the Miss America controversy started, I defended Carrie Prejean, Miss California, for her answer to Perez Hilton’s question regarding same-sex marriage. I felt that it was her right to answer the question as she felt.
But now we are in totally different territory.
Someone has alerted me to the fact that her church, The Rock Church of San Diego, uses junk science in order to villify the lgbt community.
I looked at the church’s webpage and found there to be a lot of inaccurate information, particularly regarding gays and HIV:
male homosexuals are 430 times more likely to contract HIV than a heterosexual, while heterosexuals have a 1-in-750,000 chance of contracting the virus responsible for HIV, a male homosexual has a 1-in-165 chance of getting HIV. A 20 year old gay male has a 30% chance of either dying or contracting AIDS before the age of 30. They are also 23 times more likely to get other sexually transmitted diseases than a heterosexual.
But it’s the next section that caught my eye like a blinking light:
There are also moral repercussions stemming from homosexual behavior as evidenced by the fact that one third of all sexual crimes against children are committed by homosexuals even though they are representative of only one percent of the population. Pedophilia has even been called central to the gay lifestyle. The agenda of the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is to lower the age of consent so that sex with children will be legal.
The idea that homosexuality and pedophilia are linked is a lie that has been refuted continuously. The American Psychological Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Academy of Child Psychiatrists and the Child Welfare League of America all say that the homosexuality and pedophilia are not linked.
So where did that notion come from? The discredited researcher Paul Cameron:
In a 1985 article published in Psychological Reports, Cameron purported to review published data to answer the question, “Do those who commit homosexual acts disproportionately incorporate children into their sexual practices?” (p. 1227). He concluded that “at least one-third of the sexual attacks upon youth are homosexual” (p. 1228) and that “those who are bi- to homosexual are proportionately much more apt to molest youth” than are heterosexuals (p. 1231).
By the way, Cameron got into trouble with the Nebraska Psychological Association for that particular study regarding homosexuality and pedophilia. He distorted the work of one A. Nicholas Groth to make his claims. Groth complained, saying the following:
“(Cameron) misrepresents my findings and distorts them to advance his homophobic views. I make a very clear distinction in my writing between pedophilia and homosexuality, noting that adult males who sexually victimize young boys are either pedophilic or heterosexual, and that in my research I have not found homosexual men turning away from adult partners to children . . . I consider this totally unprofessional behavior on the part of Dr. Cameron and I want to bring this to your attention. He disgraces his profession.”
So apparently this Christian church has no problem with using data by a discredited researcher who has been kicked out of the American Psychological Association as well as rebuked and censured by organizations such as the American Sociological Association and the Canadian Psychological Association due to his tendency to distort credible research in order to stigmatize the lgbt community.
Cameron's organization is listed as an official hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, by the way.
As I said before, I respect Ms.Prejean’s religious beliefs. And I have rolled my eyes and turned the channel every time I heard about the controversy with a prayer on my lips that it would soon leave the news cycle.
But here is the thing that bothers me – if a racist were to use FBI crime statistics to infer inaccuracies about the African-American community, he would have no credibility.
How is it that a church can say some of the ugliest things about the gay community and use bad science to back it up without fear of reprisal?
You see this is the issue that doesn’t get talked about much.
There is a plethora of bad information out there which stigmatizes the lgbt community as disease ridden sexual deviants.
And the people who are pushing this bad information aren’t wearing hoods and sheets. They don’t burn crosses or use secret handshakes.
They are the people in America’s churches; in the pews and in the pulpits.
They are also the spokespeople of these so-called traditional values groups who get on television and take self-righteous stances knowing fully well that they are engaging in lies.
And why do they get away with it? Because no one seems to have caught on to their game.
When Tony Perkins, Matt Barber, Peter LaBarbera, Maggie Gallagher, and the rest go into their routine, we know they are lying. We know that behind their words are inaccuracies that would be called out for the bigoted lies they are if they were about groups other than the lgbt community.
The sad thing is that there are so many people like Prejean who don’t know; who fall for it with unsurprising ease.
Prejean is not the one who we should be fighting. She never was.
She is merely a symptom of the bigger problem.



47 Comments





A person withh common sense would know better, This is the age of information. Fact Checking can be done easily when an information page uses another person’s study if it is foot noted. It has been mentioned before that if information is sighting statistics or facts it can only be trusted if it is foot noted.
It might take a bunch of people looking at various church organization websites to see what they have, and then question them. Show up at that church and pass out a sheet to the sheeple letting them know the church they attend is bearing false witness. The only way to stop this spread of misinformation is education. If we were to get one or two people in that church to check out what we provide, then they most likely will talk with others in that church.
Once it became known that we are challenging them and raising doubt with the sheeple, they will stop. It would be a difficult task, but the benefits will be worth it.
That would presuppose(re: fact check) that a person was willing to question the information being given to them.
There’s a reason for the little jingle “How do I know, the Bible tells me so…”
Far too many times, the sheeple don’t WANT to know the truth- because if they doubt one little idea given to them in church, they might question other ideas- and we can’t have that!
The entire house of cards would be in peril. That’s the marvelous mind-f*ck/ absolute control of organized
crimereligion.Since Miss CAhas a sister who is a gay activist, one might ASSUME that her own sister has alerted her to the reality about her church’s “supposed facts”. Miss Prejean likely does not deserve the break you are so willing to give her.
AlsoThe Bible gives wonderful examples of what happens when one questions, tries to learn for themselves, or doesn’t show proper respect to figures of Teh Authoritah (to quote Cartman):
Lot’s wife Rebecca, turned into a pillar of salt.
Ham, who was “cursed” for seeing his drunken dad passed out and starkers.
And let’s start right back at the classic: Adam and Eve getting booted out of Eden for noshing an apple. Why the f*ck did God create the apple tree (AKA THE “TREE OF KNOWLEDGE”) if he didn’t want the effing fruit to be eaten?
As I understand itMiss Prejean’s position on gay marriage is EXACTLY the same as President Obama’s. She believes LGBT’s should have all the rights of marriage, just not the name.
I would say, if she hadn’t screwed up the first part of her answer with the claims that it was great to live in a country where people have a choice and can choose same-sex marriage, she would certainly be qualified to represent the USA in Miss Universe since Obama has the same position as represents the USA to the entire world.
I assume that Obama promotes that position based on political expediency and not on intellectual honesty.
I just would prefer if Obama would be a leader on this issue instead of “playing it safe”.
We had some opponentshere who “went there” in their testimony last week- it was highly distasteful and offensive.
Here is a clip of one posted by 24 year old former state representative candidate Jarody DiPietro (R-Augusta):
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ja…
So What?
How is this relevant? It can’t be that, “If the President believes it, it must be true.” It can’t be that, “If the President believes it, then others who believe it must be excused.” So, what’s the point of pointing this out?
claiming to have a sisiter who is a gay activistis like fundies claiming not to be bigoted b/c they have friends/relatives who are gay. they are using the always tenuous card ” i am not homophobic, some of my best friends are gay” to downplay their narrowmindness. it is very hard to believe them when they always play this card
despite being discredited by several organizations, how can Cameron’s debunked research still be used by these churches?
why?I’m just wondering why a church has this sort of stuff on their website anyway.
Shouldn’t they have info about how they helped the homeless or helped out a struggling family?
No…they just want to hate on the gays. What a mixed up set of priorities.
I’ve thought about that last one myself.Who tempted whom? The snake? Or God? Also, that story was written 1000 years before the Bible in a Persian text. So was the flood story.
her sisteris “real” and not a “claim”. The sister has been interviewed during this “dustup” and has expressed her own views in favor of equality.
Not anything new!Remember the odious video Gay Rights, Special Rights produced “Rev.” Lou Sheldon’s hate group Traditional Values Coalition?
There’s a section in it where some “expert” rattles off a slew of claims (“The typical gay man eats five ponds of feces, has 1,000 sex partners, ad nauseum). No attribution, of course.
You have to remember… these “churches” are authoritarian — they allow no questioning, no dissent. Meaning anyone in authority or have letters after their name are experts, and thus all their claims are true!
You also have to remember that these “churches” have one agenda: theocracy. They’re trying to resurrect their power base because the older members are dying off and they have to recruit from the younger folk — usually from lower class. Just as the Taliban recruit from the lower classes.
the point iswhy aren’t all of us who are so upset about Miss CA, giving Obama the SAME rash of shit for his identical position.
Obama doesn’t deserve to be treated any better than Miss CA on this issue. If you are outraged and vocal about Miss CA, then you should be equally outraged and vocal about Obama.
In fact I would argue that Obama’s position is MORE damaging than Miss CA. The anti-equality crowd has been busy using Obama’s own words to justify their bigotry. He has provided them with a great little “safe-haven”.
From the Southern Baptists websiteThe Southern Baptists are really brazen
This statement doesn’t even specify anything like “within the Southern Baptist community.” It seems to imply throughout all of society.
What about the stats for contracting HIV?Are those correct, or can someone point in the direction of real statistics?
This is a new phenomenon?christians hate gays and happily embrace junk science to justify it, film at 11.
In an age where EVERYONE knows at least one gay person, logically, people know we’re not criminals or child molesters or rapists; we just want to live our lives, protect our families and our jobs, and be left the hell alone. But that’s never stopped them from standing up in front of judiciary committees and screaming about Leviticus and telling lies to congregations and passing Constitutional amendments to punish us for having the audacity to continue breathing. Carrie Prejean knows perfectly well what the logical truth is, but it’s more comfortable for her to embrace her white, wealthy, christian, straight privilege than it is to admit that her religion is just another full-of-shit hate group.
The Anitas’ message has never changed. It never will. And so long as they get idiots like Carrie Prejean to buy into it because thinking critically is too painful for them, they’ll have someone to carry it forward.
Please, I Beg all of You…Do not give that woman anymore time. Her fifteen minutes are waaaaay up!
She needs more air time, She is the product of a christian education. This is what they are turning loose on society. She can’t even put a thought into a sentence that makes sense. It is also proof of how they teach geography. We now learn that California is a Country.
Bible Spice is also proof of the educational value (NONE) that these people teach. Africa is a country as well, not a continent.
I am getting tired of Miss Californianow her church is fair game and, of course, she is more than welcome to step her loser ass back into spotlight. But I am kinda, sorta sick of it now.
from a member of the rock churchhey i just wanted to give a shout and say that im glad someone is writing about this. I’ve been going to the rock church for 6 years now and love the community and the majority of the doctrine, but the stance that Miles takes on this issue has always bothered me. I just thought that id share that not everyone at the rock is not a sheeple and some of the congregation are free thinking persons.
Thanks for bring up this issue, hopefully one day Miles will understand that vilifying persons for their own choices, as long as they don’t harm others, is not only a poor way to live life but also not a very Christian way of behaving.
With much Love
G. Reed
Hold on HappyCat, I am the product of a “christian education” since I went to Catholic middle school and graduated from a Catholic university.
Of course for some reason christians of Prejean’s persuasion don’t consider catholics to be christians.
For the record, i’m not catholic. But I did get a damn good education though.
Now these type of christian universities, on the other hand, I would agree with you.
uh, don’t come here with that “choices” crapthat’s a really quick way to close down conversation here.
Just wondering, are you gay or straight? And when did you choose to be that way?
Thank you for your warning, now please leave.I peeked on the website and it quotes heavily from the Sodom story and drawing conclusions to today’s hedonistic, er lifestyles.
As I recall from my bible study, Angels were sent down to check out all the bad press God was getting from the Sodomites and visited Lot and his family. The Sodomites found out and came to Lot’s house and wanted to, well, you know…
Anyway, the Angels concluded that there was no saving the den of inequities that Sodom and Gomorroah represented and called in a nuke strike.
While the cruise missile was in flight, the Angels suggested that Lot and his family leave and take anyone else who wanted to follow the path of righteousness. Then the Angels got into their SUV and split.
Lot did try to find those who would follow the Lord but came up empty.
The rest, as they say, is the subject of many Hollywood movies.
What I was getting at was:
“THANK YOU! WE GOT THE MESSAGE!!!! NOW FOLLOW THE ANGLES OUT OF TOWN OR STFU!!!!“
Well,if you’re really a “free thinking person”, why in the world would you support a church with such toxic lies about LGBT people on its website? Seems to me that if a church puts that kind of crap on its website, that’s highly indicative of that church’s anti-gay mission and philosophy.
We DID.
Let me knowwhen you have the courage to stand up in your church and say that.
Ooooh big SCARY numbersI think we all recall what Twain said about lies.
I saw that tooAnd I couldn’t figure out where they got it from. I mean usually it’s easy to trace this kind of misinformation back to Paul Cameron or some other nutjob posing as a scientist who self-publishes anti-gay propaganda under the guise of “research”, but I don’t remember even him saying it.
Or maybe he did, it’s been a while since I subjected myself to reading his bullshit. I know the “gays die before the age of forty” thing is definitely his.
OopsSorry I’m tired and I only read the first half of the article. Looks like you already discovered it was Cameron. Ugh. Hates it.
Yeah butYou left out the part where Lot offers his young daughters up to the mob of rapists; and the subsequent part where those daughters get their father drunk and have sex with him in a cave.
Remember kids, it’s called the “good book”.
Discrimination is “proper” in employment?I don’t hit on my male pizza delivery customers any more than my straight male colleagues hit on their female customers. NEXT??
If this doesn’t make it obvious to the world that the Southern Baptists are just a bunch of unregenerate Hitlerite fux desperately scrambling to justify their hate… then the world is completely blind.
LiesThe statistics are at least partially incorrect, simply by mathematical comparison. In one sentence, we’re told that a gay man has a 1-in-165 chance of (ever) contracting HIV – and in the very next, we’re told a 20-year-old gay man has a 30% (i.e. 1-in-3.3) chance of “dying OR contracting AIDS” by the time he’s 30. Unless his chance of dying in the next 10 years by some means other than AIDS (lynching by a Southern Baptist mob??) is 29.3%, these statements flatly contradict one another.
MY badthis exact statement is not on the Southern Baptist Convention website but it was a Southern Baptist pamphlet that was sourcedon the religioustolerance.org website
YesThat’s a very important distinction, Kevin. My father (a GLBT-accepting Catholic moderate) went to St. John’s University in Minnesota – where nuns were teaching evolution in 1977. He loves to tell the story of how, at his young age, he was rather surprised by this – until one of the nuns pointed out, “Wayne, perhaps God still did create the world – and just ordained evolution as the rule by which it would proceed.”
HmmMaybe, by “choice”, G.Reed means the choice to ACT ON one’s sexual orientation, which itself is a natural, inborn part of who one is. I’d just as soon not assume the worst.
There really is something of a spy-novel tenor that shows up on this blog from time to time… concluding that unknown parties might be double-agent trolls, simply because they happen to phrase something ambiguously or stumble into an individual word that is taken as politically incorrect regardless of its surrounding context. (Sorry – but from examining the rest of that post, we know whose side G.Reed is on. If someone really is anti-GLBT and wants to bring us down, they’re usually the kind of obsessive proselytizer who simply can’t hide it. :)
And then Lot’s wife said…Honey, we’re out of salt…
blam!!!
Never mind…
The same position as Obama’s when?Obama then? He’s on record in a newspaper saying he supports marriage equality, back when nobody heard of Barack Obama. Of course he supports it. He’s not an idiot.
Obama now? Sure, being against it is the lie he uses to give himself political cover. Everybody knows it’s a lie, so I don’t see how it helps him. And not leading on basic human equality doesn’t help anyone, but there it is.
The difference is Miss Right Wing California USA actually believes what she says, although she can’t give you a single reason why. Yes, it’s annoying that Obama lies about this issue, but he wanted to be President and we’re better off because he is. It’s not unreasonable to think that telling the truth about supporting marriage equality in 2008 would have been the thing to keep him out of the White House.
Obama was very vocally against Prop 8 and is today for all rights except the word.Yes, that’s still not equality, but to compare his stated beliefs (which, when they come to marriage equality are an obvious lie) to Carrie Airhead and her band of psychopathic morons is a stretch, to say the least.
But Miss California can party with us, I see…
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/…
Good Christian girl that she is.
Your religion is a choice, my life isn’t.Why do you choose to belong to a church that lies to you and preaches hate? Is there no other church in San Diego?
NoObama was surreptitiously and non-vocally opposed to Prop. 8–mentioning it once in a private letter to a largely unknown political organization.
if Obamahad actually been VERY VOCALLY opposed to Prop 8, say in a statewide commercial campaign calling for its defeat, it is likely that Prop 8 would have failed. How many points did Obama win CA by, anyway? Obama would not have had to convince too many more of his voters to vote against Prop 8 for it to have failed.
Yeah butObama would probably have lost Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, and Florida if he had done that. He was in a tough position.
I doubt thatObama campaigned very publically on getting rid of DADT and DOMA, on full support for civil unions and federal benefits for them. He also “claimed” he would be using the bully pulpit to push all states to provide civil unions at minimum. He also campaigned in support of hate crimes legilastion and ENDA.
I really doubt that doing a commercial in CA that didn’t fully support marriage, but instead talked about not enshrining discrimination into the constitution would have cost him too much in those other states.
His opponents had enough amunition with all his other pro-gay stances “during the campaign” to cause him all the trouble they were going to be able to cause in the other states.
And, yes, I put the quotes around “in the campaign” purposely because all the promises he made to the gay community in order to get their votes have all been put conveniently on the back burner now.
This along with your own contention that Obama needed to throw the CA gays under the bus in order to ensure his election doesn’t bode well for just how much effort he will put into the promises he made anytime in the future.
Depending on the timingyou may be right.
Obama did give the No On 8 campaign that letter and Joe Biden’s appearence on Ellen (a robocall could have been made easily). No On 8 didn’t use what they had, it could have made a difference.
My conspiracy theory on that is that Obama was much more concerned about turnout in Florida than in California. I don’t remember hearing anything from Obama about Amendment 2.
If you’re such a free thinkerGrow a brain cell and find a new church.