I believe one of the reasons Pam asked me to be a permanent guest barista at The Blend is because I post often on transgender issues, with a goal of educating the broader LGBT community about transgender issues. She and I share a belief in embracing diversity and tolerance, so I’m grateful for the opportunity Pam’s provided to me to initiate discussions regarding gender identity and expression in terms of diversity and tolerance here at The Blend.
And yet, being an out transwoman has left me feeling stung a few times here at The Blend — specifically by people of trans history. For example, in response to a recent diary I wrote, a blender referred “the full time transvestites” (read: transgender people) in stating that she was “not now nor was I ever transgender.” Another blender stated that “Hiding in the [trans] ghetto may work for some, but in the long run, it stunts your growth.”
Yee-ouch.
So, I think it’s time we in The Blend discussed how the baristas use the terms transgender and transsexual here, as well as what some ground rules are for discussing transgender, transsexual, and gender identity and expression related issues here at The Blend.
Unfortunately, it appears we need to discuss the ground rules in terms of the muckier details of discussing transgender issues here at The Blend — specifically keeping this blog a safe place for trans identified people to discuss trans issues and politics with non-trans-identified folk.
So, we start this discussion regarding harmful, threatening, abusive, hateful or widely offensive terminology used at The Blend about transgender people below the fold.Well, the other baristas and I use the term transgender in the most commonly used “umbrella” description of the term, and not in the how any variant of the term may have been originally conceived by Virginia Prince. We do include pre-op, non-op, and post-op transsexual people as falling under the transgender umbrella in our use of the term, as well as counting crossdressers, genderqueers, and other gender variant folk as also being under the umbrella.
Again, this is the common use of the term transgender throughout the activist community as the term has evolved, vice how the term may have been conceived. If you don’t like how we use the term transgender here at The Blend as an umbrella term, then this likely isn’t going to be your kind of blog.
When discussing civil rights (such as employment protections) for transgender people, gender identity and expression is the phrase that has come to be understood as covering transgender people. But, by no means are trans people the only gender variant folk that are covered by that legal phrasing: Men and women who don’t fit the gender norms of our broad western society — such as effeminate gay men or masculine lesbian women, for example — would also be covered by the term gender identity and expression.
Personally, I’m retired from the military, and I’m retired from work-a-day world period due to disabilities. I’m not going to experience employment discrimination in my future because frankly, I’m done being employed. Knowing that I’m forever done with work led to me to the choice of living as an out transwoman — vice the other choice of transitioning into invisibility. I could have faded within passing privilege a long time ago, but I don’t. There are transyouth, as well as not yet out of the closet trans folk, who could use some public examples of mature folk to reference and/or emulate.
And this is because transsexual people belong to the only LGBT subcommunity that members graduate from. When one thinks about it, graduation makes sense — transsexuals don’t usually come out as trans to be publicly identified as transgender their whole lives. Instead, most come out to live as their target sex. And, since transsexuals make up the largest portion of the visibly out transgender community, activists in the LGBT community will often see a high turnover of who’s out as transgender. It’s not that transsexuals that graduate from the trans community are necessarily living completely stealth lives, but often it’s that trans people just move to living their lives as the gender that they are.
So, I’m out as transsexual and transgender not for what I can get from transgender community, nor is it because I want to be “third gendered.” I stay out to the world because some trans folk need to stay out for the next generations of transitioners, if for no other reasons than to a.) work for the next generation’s civil rights and protections, and b.) to provide examples of out trans people.
Here at The Blend, I’m embraced by my peer baristas and most blenders as female, transgender, and transsexual; however, there are some Blenders who refer to people like me as living in a “transgender ghetto”. The assumption appears to be that the process of sex and gender transitioning isn’t completed unless one stops publicly identifying as transgender, and one stops hanging out with other people who identify as transgender.
And, there are less congenial comments about out trans people than we live in a “transgender ghetto”. In diaries I’ve written here at PHB, I’ve read comments left by others that attack non-transsexual, transgender identities, with less than inclusive sounding comments. For example:
- “I am sick of transgenders invading the lesbian community. I do not consider people with penises to be women…”- “That is what makes people with transsexualism different from transgenders. We only live transworld for a short time then we become women and say good bye to the queens.”
- “Transgender as umbrella is a li [sic], it exists only as a set of identity politics that is rather Stalinistic [sic] in its intolerance of any deviation from its party line.”
- I feel strongly against and do fight against the CD’s, fetish freaks, gender benders and those claiming to be “transgender”(and the “transgender politicalist” want to absorb all of these to any degree) to have legal right to use the women’s restroom.
- Embracing the identity politics of transgender is a way of saying, “I want to dress as a woman, not get SRS and keep all my male privilege but be treated like a woman.”
- “Transgenders are transvestites with word games about gender.”
- “Transvestites aka transgenders need to have transsexuals included in transgender in order to legitimize their position even if it is at the expense on women and men who just want to get on with their lives as most do within several years of their sex change operations.”
There is a basic civility we attempt to preserve in The Blend, and that doesn’t mean barring dissent, or even passionate debate. However, tossing out inaccurate or offensive terms towards trans-identified people — people that see PHB as a safe space to come and discuss trans related issues — need to know that the baristas are working to protect this safe place for discussion online. As baristas, we shouldn’t have to — nor are we going to — call for civility in every diary about trans people and trans issues.
The baristas are going act as if all blenders were speaking to one another just as they would in a brick-and-mortar, local, LGBT coffeehouse. But, to the extent that in The Blend this hasn’t always happening in threads about trans people or trans issues, for awhile at least this barista is going to respond by aggressively enforcing one of the Pam’s House Blend Terms Of Service statements regarding harmful, threatening, abusive, hateful or widely offensive messaging:
You may not post or transmit any message which is harmful, threatening, abusive or hateful. It is not the Service’s intent to discourage you from taking controversial positions or expressing vigorously what may be unpopular views; however, PAM SPAULDING reserves the right to take such action as it deems appropriate in cases where the Service is used to disseminate statements which are deeply and widely offensive and/or harmful.
So, although this is not a complete list, this is a “hit list” of transgender-related, harmful, threatening, abusive, hateful or widely offensive terminology — as taken from the GLAAD’s Transgender Glossary Of Terms:
“deceptive,” “fooling,” “pretending,” “posing,” or “masquerading,” “she-male,” “he-she,” “it,” “trannie,” “tranny,” and “gender-bender”
Some additional problematic terms from me:
“that,” “that thing,” “transvestite,” “hermaphrodite,” and transgender ghetto
Actions that will also be considered problematic are attacking or mocking someone else’s LGBT-related identity as invalid or not deserving as much protection as your LGBT identity, seriously referring to someone’s gender with terminology that is opposite to a person’s gender identity, or using language that’s disrespectful of others’ gender identity or expression. And, it’s never appropriate to put quotation marks around either the transgender person’s chosen name or the pronoun that reflects their gender identity. Period.
So for example, if you seriously referred to me as Mr. Sandeen or “Autumn” Sandeen in a diary’s comment section (as opposed to referring to me like that in an obviously joking manner), then I would take “action as [I, as a representative of Pam’s House Blend,] deem appropriate in cases where the Service is used to disseminate statements which are deeply and widely offensive and/or harmful.”
Again, there’s a basic civility we attempt to preserve in The Blend. That doesn’t mean we bar dissent, or even passionate debate. However, tossing out inaccurate and/or offensive terms toward a population that sees PHB as a safe space to come and discuss trans issues need to know that the baristas want to protect their safe online space. As Pam’s House Blend baristas, we’re going to protect that safe space — aggressively, if need be.
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100 Comments





thanks!I don’t think I’ve done it here, but I’ve used the word “tranny” as I was under the impression that it was shorthand much like the word “gay” is shorthand for homosexual. I had no idea that it was less like “gay” and more like “fag”. Thanks for the schooling.
Is there an acceptable shorthand for transgendered along the lines of gay, straight, bi, lesbian? We’re a lazy culture, and we like using short words. Would TG work?
termsI’d say tranny is more or less like faggot. It’s really not a good term. I frankly loathe it. Most of the time I use trans people or trans as an adjective.
If you’re looking for a noun, I don’t think there really is one that’s acceptable. Being viewed as a person or as a woman or man is very important to people who are trans, so being called “a trans” or “a transgender” is very hurtful for many of us.
Thank you, but I have a a question if you don’t mindIt has been my understanding that there is a distinction between transgender, transvestite and cross-dresser.
A transgendered person is someone whose gender identity does not match with his or her birth gender.
A transvestite is someone who finds enjoyment or satisfaction in wearing clothes considered “appropriate” to the opposite sex but who’s gender identity matches his or her birth gender.
A cross-dresser is someone who wears clothes considered “appropriate” to the opposite sex as a matter of expression or for entertainment, but not for reasons of being transgendered or transvestite.
These are distinct groups, as not all transgender people dress according to their gender identity, many transvestites are happy with their birth gender, and cross-dressing for purposes of political statement, social satire or entertainment is a very ancient practice.
Is this not the situation?
Plenty of those words look like they could be re-claimed…at least “gender-bender” (for deliberately norm-challenging transgender folks) and “transvestite” (that’s just the proper word for cross-dressing without transition, I don’t see how it’s offensive unless applied out of context). “Hermaphrodite” could refer to some kinds of intersex or deliberate intermediate transgender. “She-male” is often used in porn and I would assume if I heard it that it referred to porn or porn stars. Since I’m not anti-porn, that sounds no more insulting to my ears than “actress”.
I suppose the more general principle is not to just arrogantly assume you can foist your re-definition onto somebody, overriding theirs.
Thanks Autumn!I’ve read some of the posts about transgendered issues, but have gotten so confused by the different terms (especially when they’re radically redefined in the comments) that I’ve had to stop reading a few. This diary entry helped to clarify a few terms for me.
One term I have been wondering about is “cissexual.” I finally found a definition on Wikipedia, so I understand the gist of the meaning, but I’ve been wondering about the use in a few comments here at the Blend. It appears that the term “cissexual” gets used at times much like some homosexuals refer to heterosexuals as “breeders,” complete with all of the negative connotations and hostility. Am I just reading too much into it, or has the term started to have a derogatory connotation towards non-trans people?
AwesomeBeen lurking here for a while, really wanted to comment on this.
I’ve been quasi-active in LGBT communities in the areas which I have lived, but the ‘T’ in that was more for show, since I have had next to zero personal experience with trans people. So I am trying to strip away my ignorance and obviousness to this and educate myself. I want to be able take pride in being an ally. As best I can in my passing-straight way with that associated privilege.
The terminology is useful, and the link to the GLAAD dictionary. I’m am very sorry you’ve had to listen to those comments, especially in this environment.
Thank you for the post. And I hope to join the conversation here in the future, but please pardon my learning curve.
re-read Autumn’s PostIt’s not that those distinctions do not exist… but that Transgender has come to mean both what you say:
“A transgendered person is someone whose gender identity does not match with his or her birth gender.”
and also this(from the wikipedia article, bold is mine):
“While people identify as transgender, transgender identity includes many overlapping categories. These include cross-dresser (CD); transvestite (TV); androgynes; genderqueer; people who live cross-gender; drag kings; and drag queens; and, frequently, transsexual (TS).[17]”
“Homosexual” and “gay” work much the same way. They can be used to refer specifically to homosexual/gay males –or– to refer to both homosexual males and lesbian females.
Thanks, AutumnI find this post very informative.
Comments on this issue (or any other) on The Blend should always reflect respectful dialogue. Too bad it isn’t always that way.
Transgender terminology“Transgender” is an interesting term with a confusing history for some.
If you look back 15-20 years you will find that Transgender applied almost exclusively to someone who chose to present in a manner opposite their birth gender but had no intention on altering their bodies. Over time it became an umbrella term.
You will also encounter crossdressers who reject the Transgender umbrella and the notion that their crossdressing has anything to do with gender identity.
Transvestite is a clinical term which has meant that the person derives sexual gratification from their crossdressing. However, in recent years it has been labeled as simply a derogatory term towards crossdressers. Personally, I feel a distinction between the two is appropriate.
Thanks Autumn!Transgender ghetto? Please! There is nothing wrong with staying out as a Transperson, regardless of your ability to pass or not. If you stay out for political reasons, that is fine. If you stay out for educational reasons, that is fine. If you stay out for no other reason than to stay out, that is fine too! No one should tell you that you are any less of a “successful transition” than anyone else just because you choose not to remain stealth.
Keep on educating!
Adding a little moreWhen we (Equal Rights Colorado (ERC)) work on our bills we specifically have the intent to include straight/hetro effeminate men and straight/hetro masculine women as members of the orientation.
The reason is actual sexual orientation is of no matter to those harassing someone due to perception. IRRC there was a person discharged from the military due to perception of being L or G without basis. This is common in many places such as schools and the workplace.
As with Autumn, I am a veteran, I am retired, I am out and I want to provide a role model for transyouth and others who cannot believe that they can survive in the world being their true self.
As important as being a role model is, being a public figure does so much more for breaking barriers, providing a person to go with the term “Transgender” so when T’s are attacked people can say “I know Pam and she is not like that.”
Living my life in public means much to me. Being on TV occasionally helps, volunteering with the Red Cross Disaster Services is of personal significance; being a Commissioner with the Aurora Veterans Affairs Commission is important for me and also for Aurora and all veterans. Finally, I am a full-time student enjoying classes.
One thing I have found is the complete ignorance of the general public as to what transgender people are. Many honestly want to use the correct terms and pronouns, yet, they do not know which is what. Helping them learn is very important. Many want to know more about us, again, helping them learn is important.
Well said, AutumnI hope I haven’t been one of the offenders. I write so much in so many places it’s hard to keep track of whom I’ve offended. If so, it was only out of ignorance, not malice. Now I know better. (Besides, knowing me, I may have been using shock words for literary effect or crude joking.)
That said, may I reserve the right to call posters out for using “breeder” to describe heterosexuals? Since my wife and I are spending $20,000 on in-vitro fertilization treatments and being subject to the indignity of being judged worthy of breeding by a $200/hr psychotherapist while Britney’s allowed to pump out rugrats with nary a condition, I only wish we were “breeders”.
I also wonder if, within the transgender community if there isn’t a familiarity level where friends can use certain terms that would be verboten in public. You know the idea – that black folks can say words among friends that would get me punched in the face, or how my friends and I call each other “potheads” and “stoners”, but I’ll correct you in a flash with “cannabis consumer” in a public forum.
Familiarity Yes there are times when the term “tranny” is used, usually in something like when someone asks about whether there are any guide books about transitioning, ” there is no Tranny 101 class or book, you get to do it your way.”
OK, many of us use it the way gays will call each other ”fag”. Which is not the same as a group of guys at a softball game making fun of a teammate by calling him a “fag”.
You are a great advocate, AutumnI really appreciate and learn from your posts, and the same goes for the comments of the audience you’ve drawn to the Blend. Overall, I admire the T community’s ramped up efforts toward visibility and political activism over the last several years, online and out in the world. Those efforts seem to be having a positive impact, though change is slow.
You hit a key point..
Ignorance is a big issue. When the majority of (and yes, I am stereotyping for effect – sue me) “straight,white-bread, middle America” thing of Trans-anything, they flash on drag queens, Jerry Springer guests, and football players in a dress.
What I have noticed is that people completely change their view on what transfolk are, once they can say they know someone who is transgender. They may not accept it, or even tolerate it, but some of the preconceived tabloid bias goes away.
questionsSo I am in high school now and there was an openly trans girl who graduated just last year and, needless to say, I overheard a lot of crap being said about her. I have another (ftm, closeted) friend in my own grade but in a different school now, so I like to think I know better than the people you quoted above. However, I am not sure what to think when transgender people talk about changing their sex, SRS, etc. since your sex is determined not only by your genitals but your chromosomes which can’t be changed. So isn’t it true that even when you’re a transwoman and your gender identity is female, your sex is technically still male? Sort of nitpicky, I know, but I was just wondering whether sex-reassignment surgery is the appropriate term.
Also, what are your thoughts on the term “shim” i.e. she-him. I noticed it wasn’t in your list of offensive terms – I guess this isn’t such a common taunt, but this(along with “it”) was basically what I was called all throughout elementary school by bullies because I was such a tomboy compared to other girls. Just food for thought.
Now I need to figure out how to identifyI identified as genderqueer, being a gender bender. I guess I didn’t know what gender bender meant. No more gb now back to gq.
Deanna
Nitpicky? Perhaps…But sex-reassignment surgery, sex-change, etc. are common terms that people understand. Some people I know have referred to it as “gender alignment therapy”, though I have never seen that documented anywhere.
One of the common sayings that sprung up in the 90s was “gender is between your ears, sex is between your legs”. So calling it sexual-reassignment is not referring to chromosomal changing but rather hormonal and surgical change to align the outward sex characteristics to fit with the inner gender identity.
Clear as mud? Thought so! LOL!
As for shim, I know some who use it and others who find it offensive. So, I am not the best one to respond there.
How about..Just being Deanna, above all? :)
From my perspective - and solely from my perspective – I think that “cissexual” or “cisgendered” are relatively new terms that were coined to serve as the opposites to “transsexual” or “transgendered”, much like “heterosexual” serves as the opposite to “homosexual”. I don’t think that the “cis-” and “trans-” terms have existed long enough or gotten enough exposure for there to arise colloquial analogues along the lines of “straight” and “gay”. Are the “cis-” terms derogatory? I don’t think so, but then again, I’m transgendered so I don’t know. Anyone?
A couple of random remarksThe first is this is needed.
I personally am semi-out. I try to maintain some sort of balance for me personally.
Secondly, I would see the change in sex, as supposed to gender. In many cases transsexuals see their gender as something that does not change. While Chromosomes cannot be changed, the physical attributes of sex can be changed, thus the term…sex change. However, it is poor practice to refer to a transsexual as their birth sex in any way, and the chromosome issue is a very sensitive thing. The best thing to do when talking to a trans person is not even to think about it, think of them as the way they identify. Chromosones do not determine identity of male or female, even physically, contrary to what some people think. There is plenty of exceptions, I highly suggest you look up Androgyne Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS), also known as XY women. There is also x circle y women and men, often refered to as xo. There are also XX men, and I could go through all the variations that exist out there with intersex people, such as mosiacs xx/xy, xxy/xy, xo/xx, xo/xy, etc. So the chromosome thing when it gets down to it is really not relevant even to a persons sex, the truth is being transsexual when it gets down to it is another one of these intersex conditions, just one that is harder to tell because it effects how the brain is wired for sex identification exclusively.
I know that is a little confusing, but the point was to make you realize, when it gets down to it chromosones are not as determinant of these things as you think. They are changing their sex because they are changing secondary and primary sex characteristics. Chromosones…do not even always determine sex.
Also the term tranny is completely inappropriate, no matter what.
I have been in arguments here where there has been extremely disparaging things said about trans women. It is good that a policy was developed.
Another term(yes, ANOTHER one!) that’s sometimes used is Gender Reassignment Surgery – GRS – instead of Sexual Reassignment Surgery – SRS. My personal choice is to use GRS, but I think it should stand for Genitala Rearrangement Surgery, since that’s essentially what’s done.
FWIW, some more analogies:
Sex is the plumbing in your bathroom, whether it came with the house or was added later.
Sexuality is who you allow to use the bathroom.
Gender is how you think the bathroom should be decorated.
not negativeI’ve never heard cisgendered being used as a negative. It’s just some way to describe non-transgendered people as something other than “normal” or other terms which imply a pejorative against transgendered people.
Thank you Autumn!Thank you for the wonderful and informative post, and I hope I have never said anything to offend anyone (well, except maybe the fundies.) I appreciate and enjoy reading your posts because I have learned a lot, and hope you continue to post because I still have a lot to learn.
A harsh, discordant sound…I haven't been as active at the blend as I could probably be, but I do have the distraction of a halfway house for transfolk to run.Tranny — Someone asked if there were situation where somene usedit n much the same way as otherdisparaging cmments are used by a particular grioup as a sign of affection between friends. The answer is yes. I am known to even call myself a tranny — in order to take that power away from someone. I also use it in a different sense, the “ghetto” sense, as in “ghetto” speech or street talk.So there are situations where tranny is used, and is acceptable. But (caveat) those situations always involve self deprecation and/or close personal friends, an they, as a group, are not offened when one of the group uses such. Not all people are as comfortable as I am with the term. I have no problem avoiding its use, myself, provided I don't get all ghetto on somenes hind end, and, well, that was one of my weaknesses that remains…”He-she, shemale, and incorrect pronouns” – this is the equivalent of using ni–er and fa–ot. Period. Doing so is a purposeful reduction of the individual to a non-human status, since the person doing so is deciding for the other one what they are. Cisgender & Cissexual — There are some people who are transsexual and/or transgender that are bigots. Flat out. They have been hurt so much by the sort of cruelty that these things in this post talk about that they cannot thnk clearly about people who are not trans and therefore will use thse terms disparagingly. Cisgender and cissexual are not the equivalents of breeders. Breeder is just like the last section I was commenting on. I'm straight — that is, I m a woman who is attracted to men. I am a parent, even if the kids want nothing to do with me. Everytime I see breeder, I feel that sting once again.They mean someone who is not trans- in the context of LGBT studies. ”Sex-change” — ok, here I have to point out something because I use it all the time. Sex is not black and white. No single thing determines someones physical sex. Genetics and DNA are pop uses for chromosomes, but inaccurate. Everyone has the genes and DNA structures for both male and female in them. Chromosomes themselves do not determine sex, as noted. Hormones do not determine sex by themselves (but, imo, have the greatest impact there). Genitals do not determine sex, for reasns similar to chromosomes. What determines sex is a majority of those individual factors in combination. For most people, those generally align right up into male or female within the tolerable ranges for male and female. Transsexuals (and some other transgender sets) change a majority of those factors over the course of their transition. hence, it is a sex change. ”hot tranny mess” — um, based on the above, what do you think? I want to thank you, autumn, for being a bit more moderating for there are some sites out there for just LG, but they claim to be the rest. They lie.I'm glad PHB doesn't…
My two cents…Having worked for the transgender community and even been given the honorary title MTM (with a tip of the hat to Mary Tyler Moore – or should that be toss…), this is a very productive discussion.
When I first started spending a lot time with the Trans community, it took me a while to wrap my head around the subtler distinctions between sex, gender, sexuality and sexual orientation. It took me a while, but as a man (sex) who grew up getting beat up and teased for being a sissy and
insanelyworked on a fishing boat in Alaska before becoming comfortable being male (gender), I’m happy today living as a semi-celibate (sexuality) gay (sexual orientation) man (sex again).The trans community and out trans people are living the hard work familiar to a lot of the gay community — living our lives openly in a way that pushes others to engage with issues that are unfamiliar and often uncomfortable. Sometimes it’s fun, sometimes it’s a pain, occasionally it’s joyous or dangerous. But it eventually reaches a critical mass that leads to greater understanding and acceptance. After living almost 25 years as an out gay man, I’ve seen the profound difference being out makes in terms of both self- and societal acceptance. When I feel a twinge of jealousy at seeing gay kids being themselves in junior high and high school, I know the fight has been worth it. Not that they ever say thank you… :-)
To sum up, the laggards in the LGB community needs to grow up, get over their own hangups, and accept the T as a distinct but closely-related ally in the effort to establish a society that recognizes and protects people of different sexes, genders, sexualities and gender identities. Taking care with our language, calling out one another and owning up when make a misstep is something that we can all do.
**stepping off soap box**
Can we include intersex?Dys,
Thanks for the thoughtful post. Building on your comment that “sex is not black and white”, I’d like to add to the complexity of the discussion.
A related issue that hasn’t been brought up today is the inclusion and recognition of intersex people. Intersex is the more appropriate term (instead of the out-of-date “hermaphrodite”) for people born with non-standard anatomy (genitalia that is both, neither, mixed or indeterminate).
In terms of this disccusion, intersex people are generally considered to be protected under the gender identity/expression category, but are distinct from transgender/transexual people. Major issues for intersex people can include medical and/or family prejudice that leads to surgery, often at a very young age. This is done to address the discomfort of the doctors or family members by constructing more recognizably “standard” genitalia. Of course, this is done without the consent of the intersex person. I’d like to ask Blenders to keep these individuals and their families in mind as we move forward. Thanks.
For anyone who is interested, the Intersex Society of North America (www.isna.org) is working to educate health care providers and supporters about these issues.
Intersex is a tough one for me..I just have never felt comfortable lumping intersexed folk into transgender. Nothing against the intersexed, mind you. I have always felt that they deserve their own separate status. Intersexed people have their own set of medical issues that go beyond gender or orientation.
::shrug::
Maybe it is one of my shortcomings?
I was more referring to antipathy to trans people in The Blend in this diary……and I haven’t seen folk attacking intersexuals and/or intersex identities as members of a class here at PHB.
But, be assured there was a reason I added the term hermaphrodite to the list of possible problematic terms. If there are any attacks upon, or mocking of intersex identified people here at The Blend, then the baristas are going to respond just as agressively as we would regaring attacks upon, or mocking of transgender identified people.
conflicting opinionsWhether or not to bring intersex people into any discussion about transgender people is a very touchy subject. There are significant parts of the intersex community who are vehemently opposed to anything that might conflate transgendered people and intersex people.
anti-trans stuff in the mediaThanks Autumn, for a great diary.
This is slightly OT, but I was on a United flight the other day, watching an episode of “How I Met Your Mother” that they were showing. I’m not a fan of laff trak sit-coms, but I noticed Camryn Manheim was in it, who I like, so decided to watch. I was dismayed that in one of her lines, she referred to a transperson (transvestite, iirc) as both “he/she” and “she/he”. And of course it was expected to be a laff line. I was dismayed, as she is a strong feminist in real life. I know this roll is her job, but I’m still disappointed when I see otherwise with-it people supporting bigotry and misunderstanding through their jobs. Made me sad. This was episode 107, “Matchmaker”.
ConsistencySo first off I am glad to see this post made and appreciate that the Blend is so consistently vigilant to be inclusive of “T”s…
As far as “transgender” goes– the problem I always have is that although the “umbrella” definition of “transgender” is at this point the correct one, it’s not a definition that is widely, properly understood and recognized. I’m never quite sure, whenever I have a need to use the word, whether the person I’m talking to will understand what I mean by it– and since people who don’t understand it will tend to assume it just means “transsexual”, you can’t even assume someone who doesn’t understand it will give you any warning of such. What use is a term that you have to stop and explain every time you use it?
Sometimes I wonder if advocating “trans” inclusion in things like ENDA would be easier if we had the language to more consistently communicate in public what it is we are even talking about.
Thanks AutumnFor your clarification of offensive terms and phrases. PHB is already one of my favorite communities on the web and this helps create an even safer space for those of us who are also members of the trans community!
Terms
The understanding of terms can only come about through use and explanation – education and exposure. Sometimes tailoring the message to meet the audience is necessary. Patience is the key, imho.
I completely agree…that Intersex is distinct. I tried to note that by saying it’s a ‘related’ issue, but could have been clearer. Autumn’s inclusion of the term ‘hermaphrodite” triggered a recollection of my experience working with a transgender support program about ten years ago. At the time there were very few resources available for intersex people and we had several who came to the program for support.
Many of them were working through their experience of having been born with non-standard equipment, then having what amounted to SRS without consent. Having grown up being told they were girls or boys and being forced to live those gender roles, they had a similar experience to many trans people; at least in their sense of outward “sex” and internal gender being out of alignment.
Sadly, there were some members of the transgender program group who, to put it kindly, were less than sensitive toward our intersex members. Cracks like, “Well at least you didn’t have to pay for your surgery.” But hey, every group has its jerks…
My basic reason for bringing this up is to recognize an often-forgotten part of the broader constituency for sexual and gender equality — in the context of a positive discussion about the need for respectful language as we talk amongst ourselves.
While we (appropriately) recognize the distinctions between GLBTQI, the bigots who oppose us do not. We need to be working together so we don’t get picked off separately. And treating one another decently as we fight for our rights.
And while we’re at it, can we try to figure out a term for talking about ourselves collectively that doesn’t look like someone spilled a box of Alphabits?
Cisgender and Cissexual appear to be neutral at the moment……the use of these terms currently appear to mean people whose sex and gender match at birth — which is of course most of the population.
I think cisgender and cissexual are mostly replacement terms for the concept of non-transsexual.
I believe one of the reasons cisgender and cissexual are being deemed as needed is because the term transsexual has been redefined by some who embrace the concept of Harry Benjamin Syndrome (HBS) to only mean pre-operative folk who intend to have sex reassigment surgery (also referred to as genital reassignment surgery) in the relatively near term.
For these HBS believers, non-transsexual would include people that others refer to as post operative transsexuals — which completely changes the meaning of non-transsexual from the specific conceptual reference of people who’s natal sex and gender match.
So to the point, at this time it appears that the terms cisgender and cissexual have been used in to positively, neutrally, or negatively reference people who’s natal sex and gender match — so these two new terms appear to currently be genuinely neutral terms. Who knows if that will change in the future — language evolves, as we’ve seen it have with the term transgender.
HmmIn my experience, “cis” is a mathematical operator which for some number x is equal to cos(x) + i*sin(x)– in other words cis(x) is equal to e^(i*x).
So I’d expect a cissexual to be someone whose gender oscillates on the complex plane as a phasor.
…no?
Adding to the confusionis that all definitions, terms and phrases are still being worked out within the T world. There is no set and universal definition of “transgender” as there is “lesbian”.
The discusssion above regarding “cis” is interesting because of its usage by one group of people in the Denver region. They tend to place cisgender as a distinct subgroup of queer.
When I was living in California……and spending time at the LAGLC, I came to have MANY trans and other gendered friends. In person, it is easy to accept people as unique and individual and not have to categorize them. They are who they are end of story.
Then I moved back to Las Vegas. I moved 250 miles and 30 years back in time. I am amazed by how unevolved our own community is.
I joined an LGBT political group. Our membership is heavily, sad to say, old white gays. We had an outreach to increase our Lesbian membership over the last 18 months and we have not gained ONE new Lesbian activist member. We have started an outreach to the TG&OG. Every single meeting there are a few more showing up. At our last meeting where we were debating the positions of various candidates for public office, there was a huge turn out of T&O Gendered people. They are very different compared to my friends in California, who generally are accepted and integrated without batting an eye. These people are PISSED OFF! I just love ‘em. People that are pissed off get things done. People that are pissed off are motivated.
There’s “transy”As I understand it, “transy” is a local Newyorkism that is used within the world of transgender street people to refer to themselves, and is considered the inoffensive abbreviation. I got this from my friend who used to live in New York City and volunteered at a residence named Transy House that helped street people. Not being a New Yorker myself, I haven’t heard the word used in daily life or anywhere outside that context.
I do not “identify as transgender”I identify as a woman.
I got to my womanhood by taking the long way around– transsexual. I can’t think of transsexual as an identity. It’s an affliction. I took steps to mitigate the suffering from it so I could just get on with my life as a woman. I do not want to walk around with a label of “transgender” stuck to me like a yellow star.
I support equal rights for all transgender people–everyone has the right to live freely being who they are. I have noticed some of the worst transphobia occurs within the transgender world itself. Because we have taken so much hatred throughout our lives for not conforming to gender expectations, sometimes that hatred worms down into our souls and twists around our own selves. Internalized transphobia, self-hatred, is so often directed at other trans people who when we see them remind us immediately of our own suffering. This produces the pecking order in which transsexuals despise cross-dressers. I’ve known this problem within myself too, and I struggle against it– I’ve suffered so bitterly, I’ve had to fight hard against my own temptations to take out this bitterness on other trans people. I fight it by reminding myself that the same as I feel it unjust to be hated for being transsexual, likewise it would be also unjust of me to pass along that bigotry onto others.
I’m like tfeminist said, semi-out. I don’t like to go around introducing myself to every new person I meet, hey I’m transsexual. That would be pointless. People accept me as a woman, and for me being a woman is what it’s all about. But I take it for granted that I don’t pass perfectly and I’m liable to be clocked sometimes. In such cases, I feel I’m doing my part to educate the public because people can see I’m not a freak, I’m just another woman. Getting to know me may enlighten them that trans women can be just women after all. Nothing scary or bizarre the way we’re stereotyped. I want to demolish all stereotypes.
I’m active in LGBT rights simply because I believe it’s the right thing to do. If I were a cissexual and heterosexual woman I’d still do the same as an ally, just because it’s the right thing to do. So my involvement in LGBT activism doesn’t make me “identified as transgender.” It makes me a woman who cares about LGBT equality.
I don’t think the only two choices are the dichotomy “deep stealth” vs. “transgender-identified.” I’m neither. I’m a woman with an unusual history that I would prefer to put behind me, but I’m honest about it. I guess I’m trusting in the better nature of my fellow human beings not to “other” me because of my history. All I want is to assimilate into regular female society, which I’ve been able to do quite well.
I do not want to be relegated to a “third gender” category the way some trans people are. I will settle for nothing less than full womanhood. I worry that if “transgender” is equated to “third gender” then my rights as a woman would be stripped from me. This is how trans people have been relegated in Thailand, for example, they’re now officially the “third gender.” I will never accept that being done to me. I’m not a “third gender,” I’m a woman.
I don’t use the word “transgender” for myself because I don’t feel it adequately describes me. It might work as a name for a large umbrella political movement aggregating various groups, but for me as an individual it’s too vague to mean anything. The only T word I use for myself is “transsexual” because it has a specific, clear meaning. Although lately I’ve noticed that the general public has replaced “transsexual” with “transgender.” Americans are afraid of saying anything with “sex” in it, so when this handy term “transgender” came long, Americans seized on it as a euphemism so they can avoid saying “sex.”
Thank you, AutumnSpeaking from the perspective of someone who has tried to stay out of the more heated discussions, it seems to me that the observation that a lot of the negative language and comments we see on the blogs come out of pain is a pretty fair assessment. As has been so rightly pointed out, civility and watching the use of language is the key (Thank you, Autumn). Hurtful words snowball into more hurtful words, very, very, quickly. In the past few months I have watched some genuinely nice people lash out at each other with some really mean things to say and it is really obvious to me that about half of them are coming from a place of deeply hurt feelings. It pains me to see it, knowing how deeply feelings get hurt on BOTH sides of such heated exchanges.
To quote a dear friend of mine, “Words are like bullets out of a gun. You can’t take them back after you have shot someone through the heart–whether you meant to, or not.”
I’ve gotta be honestthe term “gender alignment therapy” does not evoke images of a change in the physical to match the identity, it sounds more like some fake fundie program to fix people’s thinking (much akin to their pray away the gay “therapies”)
In my experience…Living out in the Right Wing Twilight Zone, many people of operative history, who have transitions to being straight, align themselves with the LGBT community as allies. For many of them, getting clocked is an exceedingly rare occurrence and they are truly putting in their time and effort to work for the rights of other people, not themselves.
Personally, I have a lot of respect for them.
thank you HypatiaAs a “cissexual” heterosexual woman, I find it very confusing when someone who wants others to view them as the gender they identify as uses transwoman (or transman).
As an outsider, I am sure I’m not the only one who finds myself confused by this and the litany of terms now covered as “transgender”; until the past few years I actually used the various individual terms (when/where appropriate to a discussion) to help me have a better understanding of where people were coming from. I think some ground has been gained in getting people like me to understand (to whatever limited ability we can) the gender identity – physical body disconnect and wanted to be accepted as. I think where a lot of people are left scratching their heads are those who were born the “wrong” gender and undergo partial reassignment leaving themselves intersexed (not to be confused with those who happen to be born that way). I think some people react to an outsider’s confusion or ignorance assuming (and sometimes implying accusations to that effect) this is due to hostility or being judgmental instead of realizing that it’s something we’re just having a hard time wrapping our little heads around.
I am proud to claim… the fourth reference by Autumn, less than inclusive comments, as the author. So now that I am througly confused, am I allowed to identify as transsexual and intersexed? Or when we want to speak of different gender varient peoples identity, we can no longer use differenciating descriptions such as cross dresser or transgender or transsexual? Or can we only speak of transgender now? Could you please make a data base for references, so that I could refer to it when I am responding to a post or comment? That would be helpful. The political slant is getting as bad here as it is in the fight for our own civil rights. Thanks for telling me how to identify and politically removing transsexuals from status under the “t”. Once transsexual is gone, I won't again, know what the hell I am. I suppose just bitch. Is that one allowed? I always liked it since I have indulged in a little BDSM.???????Are we including/excluding BDSM terms from the adjective bracket or are trans folks involved in BDSM disallowed as being part of “t”. I'm totally confused ! If people would state their opposing view points without attacking the person who post the opposing view points originally, they're would be no need for this Bull Shit. Say you don't agree and go on about your way, that's what the hell I do, until someone jumps on my ass for thinking. (I'm still human too, and make mistakes, but I suppose well need a confession booth here in the coffee shop)
We all have our learning curves, that is for sure!One thing I would like to add (and this seems like as good a place as any) is that people who genuinely mean no offense sometimes blurt things out that they have picked up from TV and other pop media, without having the slightest idea that what they have said is offensive.
A couple of years ago, my daughter’s friend’s mom piped up with, “Who cares if so-and-so is a he/she, she is still a good mother. Just look at how great her kids turned out.” She meant well, and was trying to spring to someone’s defense, but had no clue that her choice of words was offensive. When I later pointed it out to her, she was mortified–and grateful that someone told her that the term was offensive before she said it in front of the person she was talking about.
cis- and trans- also refer to atom or residue position relative to othersacross a chemical bond.
“Alignment” makes me think of chiropractors and auto mechanics
OK, I can’t resist…If we are going to get into BSDM terms, then we need to distinguish between capital and lower case nouns and pronouns.
Gee, that ought to really help clear up the confusion.
(I am just teasing you.)
All kidding aside, I think that all Autumn is trying to say is that we all need to be more respectful and considerate of each other. Whatever language any of us use to describe ourselves, we need to be careful of the context; Autumn is not trying to exclude anybody, just to calm things down because people’s feelings are getting hurt. As to your statement that
everyone in the thread is in agreement on that; it should not be necessary for Autumn to remind us all of that, but unfortunately, it is.
I was thinking that, too!My ex is a retired mechanic with a bad back, so I thought it was just me. LOL
“sex” (biological, rather than social) is no longer seen as unitarybecause there are so many possible criteria. Owner of a Y chromosome = male? Owner of a working SRY gene = male? Owner of a “normal sized” penis and fused scrotal folds = male? Owner of testes = male?
Where does one draw the line between male-female, considering that there is a sizable (>1%) population currently considered anatomic/ physiological intersex? Where does one place, biologically speaking, the “anatomically normal” transsexual / transgender person? We have not identified the microanatomical and physiological characteristics “causing” or associated with transgenderism – but presumably there are some.
You get the picture. The topic is confusing because sex/gender is confusing in both Nature and psychology/society.
And before someone else says it…As far as I am concerned, “tranny” means TRANSMISSION. It would never even cross my mind to use the word meaning anything else–and yeah, I actually have had some “Doh!” moments because someone else did.
Not exactly. There are a few genes specific to the Y chromosomeand thus not normally present in females. Yes, a translocation or other mutational event in a germ cell can result in a Y gene being shifted to an X chromosome, and the resulting X spermatozoon can help produce an XX phenotypic male.
VERY nice Autumn! I guess I am an “out transwoman” but in reality, I am a post op. Though female to everyone I know now, I still try to stay active in the community. In 2001, I was a deisel mechanic, working for a large gasoline distributer and now I am a post op and a research data manager. I have gone from male technician to a woman working in science in those seven years. It was a struggle since, as you can see, I wasn’t wealthy. I took a HUGE pay cut which I just this year made up. During that time, I have tried to do my part, though I have thought about just letting it go and living my life integrated into “ordinary” society. I haven’t done so for several reasons. For one, I remember how HARD it was to do and I want to make it easier for people who come along later. I can’t just leave others with the same barriers I’ve faced when I’ve learned so much of what it takes to transition. Seems like an awful waste of knowledge to me. And second, Mundane society bores me out of my skull! Not to mention pisses me off. Why do I want to live and work closely with people who hate? What a downer! I’ve therefore never made a secret out of my history, if I don’t advertise it either. When asked a question, I won’t tell a lie.
Thanks Autumn for that well thought out post! Especially thanks for mentioning the word “tranny”. I hate that one more than any others. I was the lead mechanic at a Coastal Transport terminal when I transitioned and between the time I did, and the time that the company unceremoniously fired me, I made a poster for my office that said “There Are No Transmissions in Here”. Believe it or not, everybody figured out what it meant and respected it. My philosophy has become that I don’t require people to respect me however I DO require them to not disrespect me. I live my life by it.
WBT, Woman Born TranssexualWould that be a reasonable fit for your identity in activism, Hypatia? For most purposes, “woman” is your identity, but it is clear that you want to educate people about the existence of your variety of womanhood and the need to recognize your rights.
I have an XXY chromosome……so therefore I have Klinefelter’s syndrome and though I chose to change my sex, that is not the path for everyone and indeed not all people with Klinefelter’s choose to have gender re-assignment. Similarly, Klinefelter’s is not a pre-requisite to core transexualism.
From a transgender healthcare expert -DiegoQualifier: I directed the nation’s first transgender healthcare access program funded by a department of public health. It was here in Mass. called TransHealth at JRI Health. I remain a professional expert and trainer on the topic.
I’m thrilled at the number of posts on Autumn’s brave note. I’ll comment on several of the 53 I see so far, but I want to start with this one, from someone in high school.
1. Brain chemistry: at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu… you can find evidence amassed for years in The Netherlands (with nationalized healthcare) and affirmed in the U.S. for the firs time in 2001 that brains of transsexual people actually are characteristic of the brains that the person knows they are.
The body’s sex and brain’s sex can differ at birth. In the first trimester, the body’s sex is determined by an initial androgen wash. That’s why the ultrasound delivers the comment, “It’s a ….” early on.
The brain’s sex is determined in the third trimester, determined by an androgen wash that occurs then. So, the brain’s sex, determined later, can differ than a perceived body’s sex seen earlier and it can differ from a perceived and assigned sex at birth. (And let’s not forget about our intersex friends, but that’s a different thread).
While we all learn early that chromosomes are XX or XY, you only have to have a little in-depth Genetics teaching to know that it’s much more complex than that. So, don’t let simple science urge you to doubt that transsexual people exist, and that the brain tells us so.
2. The term sex reassignment surgery (although some letters from physicians will say gender reassignment surgery) is self-paid for the most part in our country (kudos to SF and MI — and to some companies and municipalities that appropriately cover sex reassignment for those who need it).
That means that we should not misstake INTENT for ACTION among transsexuals (i.e. “Will I ever find a job?” OR “Do I buy a house or have SRS?” OR “How will I ever afford SRS when I can barely pay the electric bill?”)
Under the umbrella term transgender, there are many who do not WISH to have SRS or hormone therapy, and that should be acknowledged, too. Not all transsexual people identify as transgender. In trainings, I often say that transgender is an inclusive umbrella, but sometimes transsexual people prefer to stand in the rain. The umbrella isn’t an identity we all have, and that should be without judgment, as for us all.
3. We should remember respectfully that many terms vary across socioeconomic levels, geographic lines, ethnic and raical populations and age groups. Terms aren’t universal across countries, either. While the British actor/performer Eddie Izzard sometimes identifies as a transvestite, we usually see the term used (as Autumn said) as a derogatory term. In my part of the country, it’s used to precede the word ‘prostitutes,’ too often used as an assumption without evidence or merit, and failing to distinguish survival sex (for food, shelter, safety) and commercial sex (for profit).
I’ll stop there, except to note that we use transgender, and not the -ed part at the end. It was halted a few years ago. You’ll see it in older writings and photo captions, but today, transgender people or trans people are terms used (for the person who earlier wrote that our community is lazy and likes brief versions of things).
Big rule: If you want to know how someone wishes to be identified, ask, don’t presume or assume. Anything that’s a taunt should just be omitted. Be safe, and be inquisitive. There’s no harm in asking with due respect. Diego
homeless people are transientYour use of transy for street people, or as I’d prefer to call them, homeless or precariously housed people, is short for transient.
SmartypantsAbsolutely we can include intersexed. I was limitng myself to the cinstructed cntext only, but as anyne who hasseenme argue in person or online can readily note, Iam fully supportive of intersex education and knowledge. I have encountered some very separatist trans people, and some very separatist intersex folks, make no mistake, but my ersonal approach and positon is one of unification, as, from my point of view, the two elements are one and the same. My friend ZoeB may have something to weigh in on this, and I believe is familiar with why I consider such a unification possible.One of the arguments use for not including I under T is that the “SoC” forbids it. This argument is false, and the SoC explicitly makes it clear that there is a speciic diagnosis within the GID realm for such. I;m about to read the comments following yours in my oldest at the bottom to newest at the top layout, and I suspect there will be those who disagree with me. Preemptively after the fact, I will say that I suspect they have an issue with the very thing that creates an issue for cisgendered folks about all of us. Hugs, Toni
Thank you, Autumnand all the other posters who have added to this very informative post.
Professionally I have worked in the health care field for over 30 years, working with patients from birth to Medicare age (I usually say “womb to tomb”). Many years ago I worked with newborns. It infuriated me when the (male) surgeons would meet with parents of intersex babies and, without any results of genetic/chromosome studies, would tell the parents they will surgically “repair” the baby’s genitals, always to female, so the child grew up to be able to “function sexually.” After the 2nd or 3rd time witnessing this I had a chat with the surgeons, discussing my view that when the child’s hormones started kicking in there could be some big-time physiological/hormonal fighting going on. Their only response: “We do female plastic surgery so the patient will be able to function sexually.”
Personally I have known 2 M2F people, 1 a coworker and the other a friend. The coworker was postop and very willing to answer questions we had. She was accepted by family, friends and community. The friend, she called herself hormonally induced, wanted surgery but couldn’t afford it. She had a very traumatic time with immediate and extended family (except for 1 daughter) and the community where she grew up. At about 40 years old she hung herself. My partner and I were devastated when we heard this awful news. To this day, 3 years later, I still think about her frequently. Since she died I have tried to learn and understand all that I can about those who live under and beside the TG umbrella.
As I was typing this post I realized how my parents raised us to be accepting of others, no matter what our differences are. I raised my kids with this saying: “People are people. Whether they are short or tall, fat or thin, black or white, gay or straight they all deserve our love, respect and acceptance.”
Two things…The first is this, from the piece:
This blog doesn’t sound like your kind of blog. And, it now isn’t specificly because of this second point: I’m activating our trapdoor on your profile at PHB.
Since you have proudly embraced your use of transgender-related, harmful, threatening, abusive, hateful or widely offensive terminology found in your statement:
…And that you were sent a private email this year indicating that your previous language was deemed to be widely offensive terminology…Well, you are now the first blender to experience the aggressive protection of the safe space that is Pam’s House Blend since this diary was posted this morning.
Good-bye.
That is all we ask
As far as I’m concerned, you already have done. Just realising that T is often Token, that there are things you don’t know, that’s enough. The rest will follow naturally, and it’s up to us to provide you with the data you lack.
Please ask away, any and all questions. The ball’s in our court to give you all the assistance you need in coming to your own conclusions, not ours.
Oh yes…and thanks. I’m not kidding when I say I’m in tears that someone, somewhere, at last Gets It.
CrossdressersHi all.
To explain for those wondering what the term crossdresser means, this is how it is generally used by those who identify as crossdressers:
Generally crossdressers are people who have a deep and intrinsic need to express themselves contrary to their birth sex.
The term transvestite is considered offensive in some countries and not or more than in others because it has gained, in the USA especially, a confusion with ‘transvestic fetishism’ which is an supposed mental illness in the DSM.
Amongst crossdressers the difference between them and transexuals is generally one of physical change. If you feel compelled to change your body you are transexual, if not your a crossdresser. There often are a number of people who shift from crossdresser to transexual as they gain self acceptance.
Some dress only a few times a year, some go full-time but do not alter their bodies. Sometimes the amount is based on opportunity, especially for the closeted or those in relationships or communities that are less accepting of frequent dressing while others are dictated by internal need. Some only need to crossdress a little, some a lot. This can vary over time too, ebbing and flowing. Often relating to self-acceptance and internal often unconcious struggles with a lot of guilt and shame ‘purging’ of clothes make-up and the like and attempting to ‘quit’ is common.
Drag is considered by the crossdressing community to be for entertainment purposes or as part of gay culture (I should mention there is some homophobia in parts of the CD community which a number of us are struggling to educate away), we have those amongst us that complain about the wilder dressers making the whole group look bad too. You get conservatives everywhere.
Sure some are sexual-dressers but most of those still dress for non-sexual reasons too suggesting that their internal gender variations are expressed sexually rather than the purely sexual autogynephillia claimed about them.
Many feel that they exist between the sexes or belong to both. Being unable and/or unwilling to exist solely in either male or female. Some of that is repression, many would go full-time or even get SRS if it weren’t for fear of loss of families, relationships, friends and careers but many are jeolous of transexuals, feeling cursed with being both and wish they could be happy as just one ot the other, others consider that a blessing.
It’s not a sexual thing, or an entertainment thing nor hobby nor just a clothes thing though many in the community try and convince themselves of that as they struggle with self acceptance.
It’s definatly for at the very least the vast majority of CDs an internal gender identity/expression thing. One that is more so than just being an effeminate man or masculine woman but yet less so or in a more complicated way than transexuals.
Thanks, AutumnI’ve seen her posting on here before, and though I do firmly belong to the category of transsexual, I have many friends who fall under different locations in the transgender sphere, and it drives me up the wall to see a blog that I frequently link to getting used to spew hateful language against friends who have kept me from making a Draino smoothie.
Please, keep up the good work. You’re pure Awesometonium-293.
As they say, “It’s Complex”
Diego’s comment is right on-line, but I think I’ll elaborate a bit. I’m in an unusual situation, and one that illustrates really well the whole mess of biology and gender.
In 1985, at a fertility clinic, I was diagnosed as an undervirilised male, with low-grade androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS).
Basically, I looked normally male, but with some anomalies showing my puberty was incomplete. Some skeletal and genital anomalies, typical of MAIS or PAIS-1 (mild- or partial- AIS).
There’s no good test for low grade AIS, it’s diagnosed by physical exam. AIS means the body’s cells aren’t as sensitive to the male sex hormone, testosterone, as they should be. Regardless of chromosomes, someone with low grade AIS can’t look wholly male, and someone with high-grade AIS or Complete AIS will always look very female. It’s an open secret in the industry that perhaps 1 in 4 supermodels are genetically male with CAIS. They look very female, more so than genetic females without AIS. But they’re sterile, and although they have vaginas, that’s all they have. No ovaries, no womb, no cervix, and two testes buried internally. High grade AIS usually leads to female gender identity due to female neurology.
Low grade AIS looks like a mildly defective male, and that only detectable by a through, not a superficial, medical examination. Gender Identity may be affected, but usually isn’t. It can be mistaken for Kleinfelter syndrome (47xxy), the symptoms overlap.
In 2005, my metabolism went haywire. I radically changed shape, and lost a full third of my body mass in just 3 months. It nearly killed me, of course.
After all the medical tests 21st century (as opposed to mid 1980′s) technology could provide, and on the pragmatic basis that I no longer looked male but female, it was decided I was more accurately classified as a severely androgenised female.
The flip-side of AIS is CAH – congenital adrenal hyperplasia. There, the adrenal glands act more like testes, producing testosterone and other androgens. So a genetic female with CAH looks like a guy. A genetic male with CAH will often have puberty before 10. CAH in a genetic female doesn’t always lead to a male gender identity, the timing’s wrong. The brain is feminised at least partially in the womb before the syndrome kicks in later in gestation.
We now think – and it’s more of an informed guess than anything else – that I have both CAH and AIS. Probably high-grade AIS, the symptoms largely negated by the CAH.
I have 46xy chromosomes, so I’d be the only case known of high-grade AIS who wasn’t completely sterile. For a short period, perhaps 5 years, I was merely infertile, and with medical help and many miscarriages, managed to become a biological father. I “sneaked in” just before the change happened.
I always had a female gender identity. But when you have a body that looks like a linebacker, not a cheerleader, there isn’t much point insisting on that. Or there wasn’t, when I was young. You’d get ECT and possibly lobotomy if you tried it in the 60′s.
At the end of the change, I looked female, with significant anomalies, as opposed to male, with mild ones. Some surgery fixed that, and I look more “normal” (as either sex) than at any other time in my life.
So was my Genital Reconstruction (it was a mess…) ”Sex Reassignment”? Legally, no. I was medically female beforehand. That’s caused all sorts of problems for me, as to get some documentation changed, you have to have Sex Reassignment Surgery, from medically male to medically female, or the reverse, and so I don’t qualify. My birth certificate will always say “boy” because of that. It’s the law, it doesn’t have to make sense.
In light of this… if you are going to insist that most people are unchangeably male, or unchangeably female, with a few true neuters, then there’s only one practical, and humane, criterion to use: that of neurology. That can be evidenced at autopsy (with the obvious disadvantage that the patient has to be dead first), by experimental MRI and PET scans (not ready for prime time yet), or by the patient’s reported sense of gender identity, which is pretty reliable – over 98% when there’s no evidence of glaringly obvious psychosis.
It would have been nice to have been standard 46xx, and had a standard girlhood, young womanhood, marriage, pregnancy.. I’m very old-fashioned, staid and conservative.
It didn’t work out that way though, and I took the scenic route to where I am now. A woman with an interesting medical history, and parent to a small boy who is my whole world. A frumpy, dowdy, middle-aged academic soccer-mom, who despite her plain looks, looks more like 40 than 50.
Gender and Sex is simple for most, even for GLBs. For T’s though, and I include the Intersexed in that designation, it’s not. Not from a medical, legal, or social standoint.
As always Zoe……Thank you for sharing your story.
It seems to most people that sex and gender should be easily definable, but as you and I personally have found out, it’s not. Our gender identity — our profound inner sense of being male, female, or genderqueer — is distinctly independent from our anatomy. Or for that matter, any other biological measure that we may try to use to define sex and gender by to strict, biological dichotomy.
sorry if my use of hermaphodite offendedMaybe I’m out of date with what terms are and aren’t acceptable. To my knowledge hermaphodite is a recognised condition of having both sexual features at birth, ot possibly indeterment sexual features. I wouldn’t use the word for someone who isn’t in that catagory, but some are.
Is there a more acceptable term used for hermaphodites.
I’m also familar with some earlier transgenders counceled that they needed to end all contact with Gay/Lesbian culture to progress to their new gender. that I think has gone by the wayside, and more recent transexuals kept very much within the community, our grand marshall and a tireless organizer of Minneapolis Pride, Ashley was more in that mold. It did cause hard feelings within the Gay/Lesbian community when for years friends were accepted, and then purposely chose to leave completely.
mistakenly used transexual for transgender in post above
That too, butthe word transy in the context of Transy House (founded and lived in by the late great Sylvia Rivera) was for transgender. According to my friend who was there with her.
A google search of “transy” shows that it most often refers to Transylvania University, but the second-most used meaning is transgender. Didn’t see any reference to transience.
Many years ago when I was a hippie hitchhiking across Colorado, and someone called me a “transient” my response was: We’re all transients in this world, my friend– some of us just move a little faster.
Sorry, I meant, SRY not present in normal 46XX females
Did you intend to have a specific article in your PubMed link?
for ancient history buffs, Cisalpine Gaul was called that because from the Roman point of view, it was the Celtic region in northern Italy, on the same side of the Alps as them– as opposed to Transalpine, on the other side of the Alps.
IS/TS
Hi Friend!
I consider the evidence that TS is merely a subset of IS to be overwhelming, but others may reasonably differ there. And do, on both sides.
There are two areas of overlap that are beyond dispute though:
The first is that of the surgically-created transsexual. These are Intersexed children who have been surgically and arbitrarily assigned a gender shortly after birth, with little or no attempt to determine their sex. Usually they’re male incorrectly assigned to female, as “it’s easier to make a hole than a pole” as one surgeon notoriously said. This was based on the discredited hypothesis that gender is completely malleable. They have to have an FtoM transition to cure their induced transsexuality.
For reasons I’ve stated in “BiGender and the Brain“, the surgeons are not always wrong: in some cases, maybe 1 in 3, a person could function adequately in either gender role. This is in accordance with some good data we’re now getting about various IS conditions and effects on neurology. I’ll quote from Endocrine Today published just a few days ago:
What this means is that even when the very best attempts are made to guess the right gender, 1 in 10 end up transsexual as the result. When a good attempt is made, it’s more like 1 in 4. When no attempt is made, it’s about 1 in 3. But I consider even 1 in 10 to be outrageously high. Wait till the child can tell us what gender they are before intervening, and then don’t put roadblocks in the way of surgery. This is exactly the opposite of what happens now.
The second group is rarer, but totally blows away the whole divide between TS and IS. Those who change apparent sex naturally in the course of their lives. This is almost always FtoM, with maybe 1 in 100 being MtoF. FtoM is almost always due to either 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) or more rarely, 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency (17beta-HSD-3). There are other conditions that can cause similar symptoms and MtoF changes, but these are not well understood.
I’ll quote from Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. by Cohen-Ketternis:
Sorry to blind people with science, if I was a better writer, I’d explain things more simply.
Summary: TS and IS can’t be wholly distinct, because due to Intersex conditions, some people have been surgically created transsexual; others have Intersex conditions that cause a natural transition, which may either cure existing transsexuality, or induce it where it didn’t exist before.
I was lucky: mine got cured.
BTWas I am sure you know, neurosciences are still relatively primitive. The male-female brain differences research is primitive, studies are small and lack statistical power, differences across gender are often smaller than differences within gender, the functional effect of a difference in given measurements is often unclear, whether a given difference is causal of, an epiphenomenum (sic)of, or a result of gender ideation/expression/socially imposed behavior is unclear.
I think that the lay press makes far too much of “sex differences” studies, making wild overinterpretations of provisional results, because there is this desire to reify gender stereotypes which function in favor of the status quo. You know the drill – men logical, women emotive, men silent, women talkative, men good at math, women poor at math,men have the characteristics to run the world and get paid well, women only good to serve husband, kids, and follow male bosses. There was a whole pseudoscientific tradition about racial inferiority, respectably published in the past, now demonstrated as poorly designed, biased crap.
Articles not just on PubMedThe 1996 article A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality by Jiang-Ning Zhou, Michel A. Hofman, Louis J. G. Gooren & Dick F. Swaab is in the prestigious science journal Nature.
The 2000 follow-up Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus by Frank P. M. Kruijver, Jiang-Ning Zhou, Chris W. Pool, Michel A. Hofman, Louis J. G. Gooren and Dick F. Swaab is in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.
There’s also this one from AzteZeitung, the German Physicians’ Journal: fMRT zur Diagnose bei Transsexualität geprüft, but the English translation is probably more useful.
Money quote:
No jokes about this particular Brain being an Activist, please.
WBT — I’ve heard that phraseIt might have been coined in response to the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival policy of limiting attendance to “womyn born womyn.”
You understand where I’m coming from, Nancy. The phrase I like to use to describe my womanhood is also one of my favorite Dixie Chicks songs– “Taking the Long Way Around.”
The issue wasn’t that you prefer the word transsexualBecause I have been really vocal about preferring “transsexual” over “transgender” myself… but no one has had a problem with my posts.
That post of yours in question, though, became a problem because you said disparaging things against transvestites. OK, I don’t want to be confused with transvestites any more than you do, and it annoys me that too many citizens are clueless about the difference. But that doesn’t make it OK for us to bash other transgender people. This is why I wrote above about my struggles with my own internalized self-hatred and how I have to remind myself not to take it out on other varieties of transgender people. Yes we lead a hard existence but internecine hatred won’t improve our lot any. I’m having a Rodney King moment here. Can we all just get along?
Divided by a common languageFirst off, let me issue the standard disclaimer: The trans communities are no more monolithic than the L, G or B communities, so not everyone is going to agree about terms. Preferred terms also vary worldwide (more about that in a minute). So when doubt, it only takes minute to ask someone what terms they prefer.
That said, the terms and definitions listed by GLAAD’s “Transgender Glossary of Terms” (which Autumn mentioned) and the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association’s Stylebook Supplement on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender Terminology are pretty commonly accepted ones in the U.S. In England and its other former colonies “transvestite” is the preferred term (and “crossdresser” is seen as disreputable — the opposite of the States) and, from what I’ve seen, “tranny” is more acceptable as a synonym for “trans.” In other Romance-langauge countries, “transvesti” or its equivalent tends to be the term used for trans people. I’ve heard that within African-American communities, “trans” isn’t as widely used — much as other terms are used in lieu of “gay” — but I’ll defer to those who are better informed about those communities.
It’s important to remember there’s a big difference between when a term that’s often been an epithet gets reclaimed by members of the stigmatized group as a way of saying “yeah I am a [insert derogatory term here], wanna make something of it” — and quite another when someone outside that group decides to fling it around carelessly. “Tranny” is one of those terms, much like “fag” or “dyke” — so it’s better to err on the side of not using it unless you’re clearly someone who self-identifies as trans, or a friend or ally.
FWIW, “hot tranny mess” is offensive in the same way that clueless straight kids using “that’s so gay” to describe something that sucks — it’s using someone’s identity as a put down. (And no, being LGB in-and-of-itself doesn’t make it OK to use it.)
Sadly, some folks in the trans community engage in a pecking order about who’s more respectable — akin to the “virtually normal” crowd in gay circles — as well as who’s the realer rabbit — and that can play a role in who uses what language.
As far as crossdressers, battybattybats gave a good summary. Like transsexuals, many crossdressers feel a need to express a gender different than their birth sex — but unlike transsexuals, that need can be satisfied by part-time gender crossing. Also, crossdressers generally don’t have body dysphoria, the sense of being in the wrong body, although many (including myself) would be interested in switching bodies on a temporary basis. But the picture can get muddy because transsexuals who transition late in life (often in their late 30s/early 40s) often are in denial for years, where they think of themselves as “just a crossdresser.”
I also perform as a drag queen, and my experience is that not all queens do it just for performance. Some are trans woman who attracted to men (and thus moved in gay circles earlier in life) who do it as a way to make a living — trans women, particularly trans women of color can face huge employment difficulties. (About a quarter of the queens portrayed in “Paris Is Burning” appeared to be trans women.) But some queens do it for similar reasons that hetero crossdressers do so — although they’re often loath to admit it, given the prevalent effemmiphobia in gay culture. (There are also “gay crossdressers” who seek to blend in, in the same way their hetero peers do, but drag provides an “acceptable” way to crossdress if you’re a gay man.)
The gay communities’ effemmiphobia is kind of the inverse of the homophobia among many CDs. Both stem from equivalent kinds of defensiveness where people are feeling stigmatized for something that they actually aren’t. Straight-acting gays are upset that people assume that they’re effeminate because they’re gay. Hetero CDs are upset that people assume they’re gay because they put on a dress. (There’s also historical reasons — Virginia Prince, who was an out trans activist when the Mattachines where still in the closet was notoriously homophobic and that was reflected in the organizations she founded — one of many unfortunate legacies from Prince’s efforts to portray CDs as “virtually normal.”)
@ NancyP – I’ll let Hypatia say how she self-identifies, but just as an FYI, “woman born transsexual” is a term that primarily used by a small group of transsexual separatists who want nothing to do with the rest of the transgender spectrum, so much so that they identify themselves as victims of “Harry Benjamin Syndrome” instead of transsexual. (The irony being that Benjamin — one of the pioneer researchers in the field — explicitly stated that in his experience the trans spectrum didn’t have the hard-and-fast distinctions the HBS crowd claims there are.) FWIW, the HBSers I’ve seen often don’t want to have anything to do with LGB people either.
@ peteyPornpig – I’ll defer to any intersexed people in the room, but the folks I know prefer the term “intersexed.” While there are some crossover issues (some intersex people are assigned a gender at birth that they don’t feel fits), but intersex people have a distinct set of concerns, specifically being surgically “fixed” shortly after birth, rather than being allowed to decide for themselves how they identify.
As far as transsexuals separating from the LGB communities, it wasn’t transsexuals themselves, but rather the medical establishment, who acted as gatekeepers for people getting surgery, who forced people to conform to prevailing ideas about gender and sexual orientation. Lou Sullivan, one of the pioneering trans activists, was specifically denied surgery for years because he identified as a gay man, likewise trans woman quickly learned not to admit they were attracted to women (which most late-transitioning trans women are). Similarly, trans woman would be disqualified if the gatekeeping doctors didn’t deem them feminine enough. I know of one trans woman who’s surgery was delayed a year because she wore pants to a session with her doctor, “indicating” she wasn’t in a sufficiently feminine mindset. (There are even worse horror stories — at least one doctor based the “feminine enough” decision on whether he was sexually attracted to the patient in question.)
The numbers are too small, but the results are clear
Straight men – 30-36
Gay men – 31-38
Straight women – 17-22
TS women – 16-23
So while it might be true that “differences across gender are often smaller than differences within gender”, in this case they weren’t.
That’s from Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus
Nonetheless, your point is good – we can’t look at one individual experiment as adequate proof. The sample may be the Universal set of all transsexuals who died in the catchment area over 12 months, and so is not a statistical sample but a complete survey, but n, the number of subjects, is still too small for comfort.
Together with fMRI measurements and other experiments all showing the same things, with no contradictory data at all, I find it very convincing though. There are many accepted medical treatments based on far less evidence.
Conversely, we need more data to really nail this one down. I’d go so far as to say that I agree that while I can find particular cases where your deliberately general statement isn’t true, that you’re completely correct.
Exactly true.
My own view – to me, it seems almost surreal that we can accept statements like “men tend to be taller than women”, often shortened inaccurately to “men are taller than women”, without immediately looking for social causes, nutritional differences etc, yet can’t accept the data that men tend to be better than women at instinctive ballistics calculations and the like due to neurology.
It’s not as surreal as banning a 6ft 11″ Japanese from playing basketball as “Japanese are too short”, or excluding a girl from engineering because “men are better at it”. There really are gender differences in thinking, yet these are all generalities, not universals. Everyone should be treated on their own merits, regardless of the typical characteristics of the categories they may belong to.
By my own studies, I reckon that about 30% of engineers should be female, based in gender-specific neurological differences. Which doesn’t please many feminists. However, only 8-12% are, and I’m actively involved in trying to address this socially-constructed imbalance, which pleases the chauvinists even less.
Depends on the type of math, geometry vs analysis, but yes, there are differences in general. Of course a good female mathematician has not just atypical neurology in the logic section, but usually retains typically female parallel processing and intuition, so is better than either typical male or typical female. And there are just as many men who retain the typical male logic circuitry, but have atypical parallel and intuitive processing most males don’t.
That one belongs with Drapetomania and other PSB.
In my observation, the best teams involve both genders, to capitalise on strengths and minimise weaknesses. If men and women didn’t think so differently, then gender dysphoria wouldn’t exist – though body dysphoria would.
Defining the differences When it comes to a person expressing themself in any way they please, I support that 100%. I have read many posts on various web sites that have various deffinitions to various terms.
There is no claitity when the subject comes to restroom use. And there is the problem for many people, LGBT or not. The term CD (crossdresser) has many aspects with in itself. Battybattybats below does a great job on explaining many CDs and why they dress and what they go through. Purging as an example from feeling guilty. And as Batty states many CDs as they become more comfortable with themselves over time do transition.
Than you have what many people know as the ‘Recreational Cross Dresser’{RCD} or ‘Drag Queen’{DQ} that I would say 90% of people think of when they hear Cross Dresser. And so when they hear that CDs if MtF want to use the Ladies room the go ‘Hell No’. and IMO I can’t blame them. I know when we read the likes of Peter LeBarbera refer to ‘a man waking up one morning and feel like woman today’ it is the RCDs and DQs they are refering to. And if the RCDs and DQs are covered under the Transgender unbrella than its going to be a hugh uphill climb. I personally would not want a RCD or DQ shareing the same bathroom, lockerroom or shower with me. The same would go for a man who dresses as a woman for sexual arrousal.
I also understand that gender expression is to be considered. as you mention men and women who don’t fit the gender norms of our broad western society. There have been many posts regarding how a natal female has been removed from an establishment and that is completely wrong.
But what is not clear is when fighting for the rights of Transgender people is the use of the restroom, shower etc.
Until this is addressed clearly, I can not fight for the rights of all transgender people (MtF) to use the ladies room or vice-versa.
Employment, Housing, Hate Crimes, etc I can and will continue to fight for.
I do not live as an out Transsexual and/or Transgender, I am a woman. Where I live there are three people who know, my two daughters and my mom who is disabled. Where I work there are only three people who know my past and it will stay that way.
Helen’s Rule on Questionable DescriptorsBTW, my friend Helen Boyd came up with a great rule of thumb:
If a single person is drowning… how can one leave the water?
Or for those non-believers like me, just the first two will suffice. I’m an agnostic, with only a tendency to commit Buddhism.
But that is my way, not the way. Just the knowledge that most of us who graduate blend in seamlessly is as big a morale-boost to those starting transition as any inspiration, or help with advice on medical issues, I can give. We who have renounced the path of invisibility when it was within our grasp, should not criticise those who choose to move on: for they help others by doing so too. Both paths are necessary.
ThanksThanks for this, BBB.
I’ve received an education not just in GLB issues recently, but in non-TS, non-IS, TG ones. That latter’s mainly due to you, and I owe you for that.
I may still be a prig and a bigot, but now I can’t help seeing a group unlike me, a group I really am not comfy with, as not a group but a collection of human beings. Ones deserving rights, some of whom are better and more courageous people than I am, even if I don’t understand them.
I may not be a better person for what you’ve taught me, but I intend to act as if I am.
Hugs, Zoe
No!WBT is a term used by the transphobic hatemongers of the MWMF community to legitimize discrimination against transwomen.
Single-User BathroomsThis is neccessarily a long post but please read on, I think it’s important!
The bathroom issue.
The notion that keeping anyone out of a particular toilet has an interesting aspect to it.
It only protects people from certain sexualities but its very good at repressing a lot of people.
A crossdresser who is always sexually aroused by dressing is unlikely to go out into the general public dressed but lets explore the hypothetical.
Subject A is an imaginary MtF pervert. Subject A is allowed to use the womens toilets. Subject A can only be considered a threat if subject A is attracted to women or girls!
Or
Subject A is still an imaginary MtF pervert. Subject A is only allowed to use the mens toilets. Subject A is only a threat if Subject A is attracted to men or boys! If subject A uses the toilets dressed subject A is greatly at risk of harm, probably more risk than subject A is to others even if we assume subject A is actually a threat to anyone. If subject A is still a threat when not dressed (pretty damn likely if subject A is a threat at all) then if having to use the mens prevents subject A from dressing then subject A is still a threat if attracted to men or boys.
So the end result is that a lot of people are prevented from crossdressing under the assumption that their are MtF people attracted to women that are threats to women.
Is the source of threat women being in a bathroom where someone who could be sexually aroused/attracted to them? Now if that seems reasonable shouldn’t we prevent lesbians from using womens bathrooms?
The public perception is that 1. Men are the rapists or child molesters. 2. crossdressers are men therfore 3. crossdressers are rapists/molesters or potential rapists/molesters.
But women have been rapists and child molesters too. There have been lesbian rapists and child molesters after all. In much lower numbers than men but still they exist.
Is there any verifiable evidence that there are more or even as many MtF crossdresser rapists and child molesters attracted to women as their are women rapists and child molesters attracted to women? Possible but I’ve heard of a lot more lesbian perpetrators and while the media loves to go overboard about salacious and tabloid news involving lesbians and sex they also really like to portray crossdressers and transexuals in a bad light too so I’d be very surprised if they had decided to keep that low-key. If not can we say that allowing CDs into womens bathrooms is as bad as letting lesbians stay there? But then where would lesbians pee? Especially as the vast majority of lesbians are also not rapists or child molesters.
And say we do let all transgender people into the bathrooms of their presentation?
It might make things better for transgender people but there would still be people unsafe in public toilets and showers! Women and men and girls and boys the elderly and others are assaulted in those places right now.
The only way to make those facilities safe is to remove the communal space from them. Single-User Facilities. And once there is no more of that wasted communal space, once there is no more room for predation, then there is no reason to make the facilities sex-segregated and the whole transgender issue evaporates.
Meanwhile the openly gay or lesbian, the effeminate men and masculine women, the children, the elderly, the disabled and all those people who may be targets behind closed doors will all be safe.
The only major objection to that I have heard is that of cost, but if truly significant that can be handled by slowly phasing them in. Start with new building codes and only new buildings will have them then as each place renovates it will simply change to fit the new standards untill the only places left are heritage-listed.
Is that a solution you can support HappyCat?
Recreational Crossdressers
While I have in plenty of crossdressing forums met and discussed with those who say they dress just for the sheer enjoyment of dressing they tend to be just starting to come toterms with admitting that they dress and when details as to what that enjoyment is are discussed I’m left with only one conclusion.. that it is the brief acknowedgement of their repressed femininity that is the source of that pleasure.
The feelings of calm, of ‘rightness’, of relief from stress and all the rest described seem to me to be a simple combination of allowing themselves access to their own femininity with a touch of added excitement coming from the reckless thrill of going against their personal taboo repressions.
While I can imagine that some could theoretically crossdress just for the thrill of going against social gender rules I honestly haven’t met anyone who has gone on to keep crossdressing rather than as a one-off event. All those who I’ve spoken to that dress regularly or repeatedly describe the sense of soothing calm and of rightness etc that you just don’t get from those who for example shoplift for things they don’t need just for the thrill of being naughty and getting away with it or those who lie for the enjoyment gained of deceiving others.
This is borne out by the fact that as crossdressers gain self acceptance and the ‘thrill’ aspect goes away they don’t stop dressing, the more important stuff, the emotional, remains and becomes more a part of their day to day life.
It’s like fasting. It makes the food afterwards so much more exciting and overwhelming but is ultimately harmful to go through such severe self-denial.
As AFAIK the only RCD’s that exist are those who dress maybe once in their lives, probably while drunk, as a joke or for halloween and they are unlikely to use the womens facilities. And considering the extent of homophobia and transphobia amongst much of male ‘larrikin’ culture I think the numbers of those who’d even concider crossdressing in such an occassion would be likely repressed CDs anyway, just ‘kidding around’ or making sexist or mysogynistic remarks as an attempt to hide that they are enjoying it. Like those guys I used to know that always made offensive jokes about gays who turned out to be bi or gay themselves years later.
No I think RCD’s are 99.9% myth with a 0.1% margin-of-error.
But even if they do the single-user facility will stop them from being a problem anyway while increasing current protections of everyone from real predators and stopping RCD’s, real or myth, from being used as an excuse to repress people.
Everyone needs to pee regularly. If you have to use the place for the gender you aren’t presenting as you can’t pee safely. If you can’t pee safely you can’ be outside. If you can’t be outside you are a non-person, and if you can only pee, be safe, be outside when you conform to societies expectations of you then you are effectively neutralised.
That is why the myth of the crossdressing sexual predator is central in the oppression of transgender people.
But as everyone needs to pee, as everyone needs to be safe, as those at risk now need protection and thats a more vital concern than worrying about imaginary and/or potential threats then we all need to rally behind the single-user facilities. Gays, lesbains, Bi, feminists, Parants, Disabiled Advocates, the Elderly… anyone who has ever felt uncomfortable or vulnerable in a public toilet and everyone who is related to or friends with anyone who has ever felt uncomfortable or vulnerable in a public toilet should support this.
Ok, some might mourn the fact that new places for beats will need to be found but a lot of others might be happy about that.
So lets all get behind the single user facility notion.
My identity is a single word: WOMAN with no qualificationsBeing a woman is what it’s all about, isn’t it? The whole point of going through all this hassle, heartbreak, and expense is not to become a transgender. It’s to be the woman I am.
The first LGBT conference I went to after coming out had a queer women’s circle and a transgender circle. I spent the entire time in the women’s circle. It was my first time participating as a woman in female society and thereby I knew that was exactly where I belonged. Joining a transgender group would have felt– sorry to say it would feel “wrong” but yeah it would feel wrong. On the way to the room where the women gathered, I stopped by the door of the room where the trans people were sitting, waved to them, and apologized for not joining them. Being accepted as one of the girls was a revelation to me and years later still shines in my memory as one of the most blessed spiritual experiences of my life.
The next year I went to a conference of progressives at a Unitarian church– I hadn’t begun to pass yet– and as soon as I walked in, a nice church lady walked up and told me they had designated special gender-free restrooms. I was the only trans person there. She must have felt glad she found one to say this to. I know she meant well, and was only trying to be supportive (however clueless). I just smiled and said “Thanks, but I use the ladies’ room.” She was caught off guard and stuttered, “Oh, that’s fine.”
Like I said, designation as a separate gender category like “third gender” or “two spirit” or “neither man nor woman” is not for me. I would hate that as much as being designated male. I can’t settle for anything less than full womanhood, no more, no less.
To gender radicals who want to tear down the binary– if my feeling that I belong in one-half of the binary is “reinforcing” it, well yeah I guess I am reinforcing it. Sorry, but your fight is not mine.
Supporting the middle from the ends
It’s important to me that you every bit as much as I can be free to be yourself as you define it.
So you can fit into the binary, be just a woman etc without being harmed by my existing in between.
People who move on and go stealth can still support the transgender issues and needs of others just as much as someone still in the closet. Via the net and via their vote etc.
Allowing space for those who currently have none shouldn’t mean you should be dragged into it too. I just want to be as free to be myself, to be recognised for who I am, valued as much as any other person with all the same rights and protections and priviliges and services that everyone else gets.
You needn’t have to be included in the same stuff as me. That’s fine. But I do hope you’ll help work to make sure that it is there for those who need it and want it.
There are an infinite number of fractions and decimals between 0 and 1. That’s the trouble with binaries, there is always in-between.
Excellent analogySex is the plumbing in your bathroom, whether it came with the house or was added later.
Sexuality is who you allow to use the bathroom.
Gender is how you think the bathroom should be decorated.
This is one of the most succinct, clear descriptions I’ve seen of the differences between sex, sexuality, and gender. Mind if I borrow it?
Long way around – good one.I just wanted to recognize the activist not ashamed to be known as having had that “long way around”, and willing to help educate others.
I can accept that men on the whole are better at ballistics accuracy at this moment in time, but do not accept that it is a given that this is due to innate differences in ability (aside from power related to muscle mass, which is more related to range than accuracy). Socialization of young children is so gender-dependent – boys are started early at throwing and catching, and aren’t allowed to not participate. It’s optional for girls, and most girls aren’t started early on athletic pursuits.
There are plenty of studies showing dropoff in maths performance in middle school girls related to same age boys. There’s a lot of pressure on girls of that age to be stereotypically feminine to fit in, and face it, being a maths and sciences geek is not “feminine” and does not result in popularity with either boys or the in set of girls. One thing I liked about Star Trek DS9 and Next Generation was that there were prominent (and hot!) women scientist and engineer role models for any pre-teen girls watching.
Thanks LenaDI’ll use intersex. An interesting couple I knew in Minneapolis MCC, (I won’t use any real names.)
What every thought was a lesbian couple, with one partner very masculine and used a man’s name, was in reality a straight couple, only the male was intersex at birth, and the doctors and parents decided to raise the child female.
The telling event was the man fathered a child with his wife, seems his equipment was more internal, but just as effective…LOL.
The pregnancy and birth was a great joy for everyone who knew this couple.
I also believe the seperation counceling the medical community once preached to transgenders, was reflective of their own homophobia, they couldn’t imagine someone straight might enjoy friends and aquaintances in the gay/lesbian community.
Tag them “TOILET MOMS”We’ve been through elections where politicians frighten soccer Moms, then security Moms, this season the Christian reich has a new target to scare…TOILET MOMS.
Who is more scarey in a public restroom, a transgender who minds her own business in a bathroom, or creepy Larry Craig the stall-tap dancing fool?
Speaking as a mom…As those of us here with kids all know, you become hyper-sensitive to news stories involving children being hurt of killed.
To the best of my recollection, I have not seen one, repeat not one, news story of a child being attacked by a transgender individual or some creep claiming to be trans to gain access to an opposite sex restroom. I do, however remember (with horrible clarity) several stories of little boys being hurt or killed by creeps lying in wait in men’s rooms.
Honestly, I worry far more about my son entering a men’s room alone than I about my daughter being alone in a restroom with a strange woman, trans (CDs included) or otherwise.
All for single user facilitiesI totally agree with you on this, for all the reasons you cited.
I know that you are correct and they must be phased in, but there are quite a few around here, and they really make a huge difference for seniors or people who are disabled and need their spouse or partner to help them.
Imagine being a senior or disabled and having to wait for everyone else to leave a single-sex communal restroom, because the person helping you is opposite sex. Not fun.
How about everyone support everyone else, what a beautiful world it would be
Yes.
What would harm me is clueless people who can’t tell the difference and make policy based on that ignorance. But that isn’t your lookout. You have the right to be who you are and your being doesn’t harm me. Peace and blessings to you and to our whole world of beautiful diversity.
Thanks, Nancy, good to know you
FTW!
As a chemE major H3C CH3
\ /
C=C
/ \
H3C2(HC) (CH2)6CH3
That is a cis-double bond. The longer ends (CH2)6CH3 [carbon chains] are on the same side.
H3C2(HC) CH3
\ /
C=C
/ \
H3C (CH2)6CH3
This is trans. The longer ends are on opposite sides.
Yup. Nerding out. Time to go to bed.
A few important points…First off, the proper term is Harry Benjamin Syndrome…no ‘s. When naming a syndrome, it is proper to use the name without a possessive, since the naming is honorary, not a statement that someone “owns” or “has” the condition.
Second, please keep in mind that there is no single monolithic group advocating for the use of Harry Benjamin Syndrome. There is a group out of Spain, head by Charlotte Goiar, and another that can be found at http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome.org. At one time, Charlotte Goiar was associated with second group, but she was removed after insulting numerous members.
Unlike the term “transgender” Harry Benjamin Syndrome refers to a single, object set of symptoms. It is not a part of the “transgender umbrella” and should never be referred to as such. A person with Harry Benjamin Syndrome might choose to identify as “transgender” but that is a matter of choice, and should never be imposed. In fact, the term “transgender” should never be imposed on anyone who objects. It is a subjective, artificial political/social construct that should only be used when the person referred to has expressed a willingness to be referred to in that manner.
Harry Benjamin Syndrome is primarily a replacement for the older terms “classic transsexual” or “true transsexual.” Yes, most supporting this term also do not identify as “transgender” and do not wish to be referred to in that manner.
Simply put, we would appreciate people leaving us alone, and not presuming to speak for us. And if they do, and if they openly acknowledge that we are not a part of their “club” then we will gladly leave them be.
Wow Hypatia, very well put….
I have said that many times myself.